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Re: [SCA-Archery] Crown Tournament

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  • John edgerton
    Also noting that this is just a ...what if ... discussion and that I do not support the idea of crowns being won by anything but heavy rattan armored
    Message 1 of 47 , Mar 9, 2011
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      Also noting that this is just a "...what if ..." discussion  and that I do not support the idea of crowns being won by anything but heavy rattan armored combat.  

      And please let us keep this discussion polite. 

      See below for two quotes from my article "War ARchery and Social Status".


      On Mar 9, 2011, at 6:57 PM, Cecil Hudson wrote:


      Ok, I'll bite. 
      Just for the sake of fun and conversation and knowing full well that society is centered on chivalric combat to determine crown champions, I don't think it will do any harm to play "What if...".

      I think I remember it told that in the days of old a knight was required to be proficient in several forms of combat. In fact, included in their issued gear would be a crossbow among other weapons we more often see today on our battlefields. I don't think it unreasonable to include an archery element in said crown tourney based on that. That said, I do not think a person proficient in archery alone should be considered for the crown.  

      "The afternoon was given up to work, recreation, and to those military exercises so essential to military efficiency.  From later Statues and regulations we learn that the military brethren had to attend not less than three afternoons a week for gymnastics, wrestling, drill, exercises in arms, and shooting with the crossbow and there was a prize for marksmanship every two months."

      The above is from: [1]   Sir Edwin James King . Knights of Malta. The Rule Statues and Customs of the Hosipitallers, 1099-1310.  Pub. Taylor & Francis. 1980

      And also the following from:  John B Hattendorf.  War at Sea in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance.  Pub. Boydell Press, 2003. Pages 173-174

      "In the convent all the knights lived for three years of apprenticeship during which they would have learned the basics of mathematics, geometry, cosmography, history, geography, and land and naval tactics, besides which they would have been trained in gymnastic, wrestling, swimming, fencing, and the use of the crossbow, arc and portable fire weapons."

      Now rapier on the other hand, I have a hard time seeing a knight, who knows heavy combat above all, needing to acquire the skill for the use of light weaponry. I really don't see how one would mix the two or justify adding rapier to a crown tourney. Now if you're asking why can't a light fighter be king, well the answer is he can so long as he can pick up a sword and board and win the tourney. 

      Cian @}~~~
    • John R. Edgerton
      I am considering modifying the crouch so the archer only has to crouch while aiming and releasing. They may stand while nocking and drawing. Jon ... I am
      Message 47 of 47 , Apr 18, 2013
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        I am considering modifying the crouch so the archer only has to crouch while aiming and releasing. They may stand while nocking and drawing.


        "lynn.palmieri" <lynn.palmieri@...> wrote:



        I like the challenge overall.  My only concern would be for those of us with damaged knees.  I personally am unable to crouch and hold that position to shoot.  Getting up and down of the ground is challenging, but doable, however it may depend on the state of the ground (i.e. fine dirt or mud vs. grass).  I know you said it would be the marshal’s choice, but these two options may need to be used as last resorts?  Just my $0.02.



        From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Edgerton
        Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:27 PM
        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: SCA-West-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] (unknown)



        Here is my latest addition to the possible SSAC shoots. Your comments will be greatly appreciated. 


        Thank you 





        Random Stance Competition

        (Draft 4/18/13)

        The Random Stance Competition is shot from six different stances which are chosen at random by the marshal in charge from a predetermined set of stances. By “stances”, it is meant either standing, kneeling, sitting, etc. The purpose of this competition is to test the ability of archers to shoot from different stances.

        The “stances” are:

        1)    Standing. 

        2)    Kneeling, on one or both knees.

        3)    Sitting, posterior on ground.

        4)    Parthian, back toward the target and toes pointed away from target, rotate torso and shoot back over your shoulder.

        5)    Crouching, both knees bent at approximately a ninety degree angle.

        6)    Twister, feet pointing the opposite way they normally would (a right handed archer’s feet would point left). 

        The bow should not be drawn until the archer is facing the target.

        If an archer, due to a disability or injury, can not assume a stance, they may assume one of the other stances which is most similar to it with the approval of the marshal. At the decision of the marshal in charge of the competition, the archers may shoot one at a time or as groups depending upon the number of archers.

        The distance is 20 yards.

        Ends. There six ends of six arrows, each shot from a different stance, six arrows from each stance. The marshal in charge randomly draws a stance from a container of the six stances, announces the stance and then removes that stance from the container. This is repeated for each end. The arrows are scored at the finish of each end.

         Target. The roundel target is the same as a Period IKAC target, a 6cm (2.4”) peg, 24cm (9.6”) roundel, with a 60cm (23.6”) outer circle. The peg, roundel and circle may be of any contrasting colors.

        Additional period style decoration may be added to the target as long as it does not make aiming or scoring difficult. Such decoration is strongly encouraged, but not required.

        For those who wish to stop by a print shop, here is a PDF designed for large format printers with the target face pre-drawn.

         Scoring. The peg is five points, the roundel is three points and the circle is one point. Arrows touching the line count as the higher score. There is a maximum possible score of 180 points.

         Youth division. The distance for the youth division is fifteen yards.

        Sir Jon Fitz-Rauf

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