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A couple questions..

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  • aelric_southlake
    Greetings, name s Aelric. Been doing a bit of archery these past couple years in a non-SCA context. Working on incorporating target archery into my SCA
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 28, 2010
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      Greetings, name's Aelric. Been doing a bit of archery these past couple years in a non-SCA context. Working on incorporating target archery into my SCA events. I fight heavy.

      Anyway.. Currently I shoot a recurve at the local archery range here in Martinez CA, and sometimes go out to Briones park, where there's a great hiking range. I have an english longbow on order, and have recently recieved a dozen self-noched arrows from the guy who makes arrows for Rudderbows (Glacier Traditional Archery in Montana).

      They are beautiful. Tried them out with my recurve and they shoot GREAT. A couple of them have slight bends, as expected, and I was wondering if anyone out there had any thoughts on some of the 'straightening tools' I've seen in archery catalogs. I tried the hand-straightening method the fletcher included with my order, but I'm slightly concerned about screwing them up somehow! Anybody have any good luck with any particular 'straighteners'? Looking for brand names, styles, model no.s... Or should I just hunker down and figure out how to do it by hand? ha ha ha...

      AND: On the subject of back quivers... It occured to me recently that I've seen a lot of medieval art with images of archery, and I don't recall ever seeing a representation of a back quiver. By no means am I suggesting I've seen all the art on the subject - just don't recall ever seeing one. Is the medieval/european back quiver a "hollywood-ism"? Cuz I like my back quiver (maybe a left-over Robin hood 'jones' from my youth).

      Thanks,
      Aelric S.
    • obsidian@raex.com
      Greetings Why buy a tool when you can learn a skill? Reflexing arrows is easy, but you should practice a bit first. Get ahold of some old arrows, hopefully
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 28, 2010
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        Greetings

        Why buy a tool when you can learn a skill? Reflexing arrows is easy, but you should practice a bit first. Get ahold of some old arrows, hopefully with a bit of bend to them. Find the bend, and orient the arrow so it bends inward, toward you. Grasp the shaft at each end, and extend the thumbs so they approach the pivot point. GENTLY noodge noodge noodge, sighting down the shaft frequently (lining it up with a vertical line like a doorframe helps). When you get a good sense of how much (or really, how little) pressure to exert, then start on your good shafts. Cedar realigns fairly readily, just be sure to very gentle, repeated pulls, and to check where the alignment is going constantly.

        As for quivers, it is something of a controversial point but, yeah, you are correct that European Mediaeval art generally shows sidequivers attached to the belt with a loop, or no quivers at all, the arrows simply being slipped inside the belt, or stuck in ground next to the archer if he is in a static position. Good examples can be found in the Bayeux Tapestry (11th cent.), the Luttrell Psalter (14th cent.), the St. Sebastian page in the Book of Hours of Catherine of Cleves (15th cent.), Or most Martyrdoms of St. Sebastian that include archers in the scene. Off the top of my head, I can think of only one painting which seems to show a back-quiver - an Italian Martyrdom of St. Sebastian, by Gozzoli, c. 1465. If it is (the painting is a bit ambiguous), than the object would appear to be a soft cloth bag rather than the hardshell cuirboulli types we are familiar with today.

        Cordially;
        Baron Nigel
        On Sun, November 28, 2010 5:43 pm, aelric_southlake wrote:
        > Greetings, name's Aelric. Been doing a bit of archery these past couple
        > years in a non-SCA context. Working on incorporating target archery into
        > my SCA events. I fight heavy.
        >
        > Anyway.. Currently I shoot a recurve at the local archery range here in
        > Martinez CA, and sometimes go out to Briones park, where there's a great
        > hiking range. I have an english longbow on order, and have recently
        > recieved a dozen self-noched arrows from the guy who makes arrows for
        > Rudderbows (Glacier Traditional Archery in Montana).
        >
        > They are beautiful. Tried them out with my recurve and they shoot GREAT.
        > A couple of them have slight bends, as expected, and I was wondering if
        > anyone out there had any thoughts on some of the 'straightening tools'
        > I've seen in archery catalogs. I tried the hand-straightening method the
        > fletcher included with my order, but I'm slightly concerned about screwing
        > them up somehow! Anybody have any good luck with any particular
        > 'straighteners'? Looking for brand names, styles, model no.s... Or should
        > I just hunker down and figure out how to do it by hand? ha ha ha...
        >
        > AND: On the subject of back quivers... It occured to me recently that
        > I've seen a lot of medieval art with images of archery, and I don't recall
        > ever seeing a representation of a back quiver. By no means am I suggesting
        > I've seen all the art on the subject - just don't recall ever seeing one.

        > Is the medieval/european back quiver a
        "hollywood-ism"? Cuz I like my back
        > quiver (maybe a left-over Robin hood 'jones' from my youth).
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Aelric S.
        >
        >


        --
        "Ausculta, feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non fundamentum pro formula administrationis est."
        -
        http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html
      • Carolus
        You might want to look into the native American straighteners. A chunk of steatite or soapstone with a groove in it. Heat it up (hold it in a heavy glove)
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 28, 2010
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          You might want to look into the native American straighteners. A chunk
          of steatite or soapstone with a groove in it. Heat it up (hold it in a
          heavy glove) and run the arrow through the groove with the convex side
          in the groove. Wiping with a damp cloth first helps.A little pressure
          to reverse curve the arrow while sliding and voila!! a straight arrow.
          Carolus

          aelric_southlake wrote:
          > Greetings, name's Aelric. Been doing a bit of archery these past couple years in a non-SCA context. Working on incorporating target archery into my SCA events. I fight heavy.
          >
          > Anyway.. Currently I shoot a recurve at the local archery range here in Martinez CA, and sometimes go out to Briones park, where there's a great hiking range. I have an english longbow on order, and have recently recieved a dozen self-noched arrows from the guy who makes arrows for Rudderbows (Glacier Traditional Archery in Montana).
          >
          > They are beautiful. Tried them out with my recurve and they shoot GREAT. A couple of them have slight bends, as expected, and I was wondering if anyone out there had any thoughts on some of the 'straightening tools' I've seen in archery catalogs. I tried the hand-straightening method the fletcher included with my order, but I'm slightly concerned about screwing them up somehow! Anybody have any good luck with any particular 'straighteners'? Looking for brand names, styles, model no.s... Or should I just hunker down and figure out how to do it by hand? ha ha ha...
          >
          > AND: On the subject of back quivers... It occured to me recently that I've seen a lot of medieval art with images of archery, and I don't recall ever seeing a representation of a back quiver. By no means am I suggesting I've seen all the art on the subject - just don't recall ever seeing one. Is the medieval/european back quiver a "hollywood-ism"? Cuz I like my back quiver (maybe a left-over Robin hood 'jones' from my youth).
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Aelric S.
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >
          > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          > Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3284 - Release Date: 11/27/10 11:34:00
          >
          >
        • Taslen
          Some excellent questions and some great answers! Nigel do you have a ideas of when the back quiver became a image of the medieval archer ? Gaelen O Grady
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 28, 2010
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            Some excellent questions and some great answers! Nigel do you have a ideas of when the back quiver became a "image of the medieval archer"?
             
            Gaelen O'Grady
            Marche of Three Towers
            Mansfield Ohio


            From: "obsidian@..." <obsidian@...>
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 7:09:16 PM
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] A couple questions..

             

            Greetings

            Why buy a tool when you can learn a skill? Reflexing arrows is easy, but you should practice a bit first. Get ahold of some old arrows, hopefully with a bit of bend to them. Find the bend, and orient the arrow so it bends inward, toward you. Grasp the shaft at each end, and extend the thumbs so they approach the pivot point. GENTLY noodge noodge noodge, sighting down the shaft frequently (lining it up with a vertical line like a doorframe helps). When you get a good sense of how much (or really, how little) pressure to exert, then start on your good shafts. Cedar realigns fairly readily, just be sure to very gentle, repeated pulls, and to check where the alignment is going constantly.

            As for quivers, it is something of a controversial point but, yeah, you are correct that European Mediaeval art generally shows sidequivers attached to the belt with a loop, or no quivers at all, the arrows simply being slipped inside the belt, or stuck in ground next to the archer if he is in a static position. Good examples can be found in the Bayeux Tapestry (11th cent.), the Luttrell Psalter (14th cent.), the St. Sebastian page in the Book of Hours of Catherine of Cleves (15th cent.), Or most Martyrdoms of St. Sebastian that include archers in the scene. Off the top of my head, I can think of only one painting which seems to show a back-quiver - an Italian Martyrdom of St. Sebastian, by Gozzoli, c. 1465. If it is (the painting is a bit ambiguous), than the object would appear to be a soft cloth bag rather than the hardshell cuirboulli types we are familiar with today.

            Cordially;
            Baron Nigel

            On Sun, November 28, 2010 5:43 pm, aelric_southlake wrote:
            > Greetings, name's Aelric. Been doing a bit of archery these past couple
            > years in a non-SCA context. Working on incorporating target archery into
            > my SCA events. I fight heavy.
            >
            > Anyway.. Currently I shoot a recurve at the local archery range here in
            > Martinez CA, and sometimes go out to Briones park, where there's a great
            > hiking range. I have an english longbow on order, and have recently
            > recieved a dozen self-noched arrows from the guy who makes arrows for
            > Rudderbows (Glacier Traditional Archery in Montana).
            >
            > They are beautiful. Tried them out with my recurve and they shoot GREAT.
            > A couple of them have slight bends, as expected, and I was wondering if
            > anyone out there had any thoughts on some of the 'straightening tools'
            > I've seen in archery catalogs. I tried the hand-straightening method the
            > fletcher included with my order, but I'm slightly concerned about screwing
            > them up somehow! Anybody have any good luck with any particular
            > 'straighteners'? Looking for brand names, styles, model no.s... Or should
            > I just hunker down and figure out how to do it by hand? ha ha ha...
            >
            > AND: On the subject of back quivers... It occured to me recently that
            > I've seen a lot of medieval art with images of archery, and I don't recall
            > ever seeing a representation of a back quiver. By no means am I suggesting
            > I've seen all the art on the subject - just don't recall ever seeing one.
            > Is the medieval/european back quiver a "hollywood-ism"? Cuz I like my back
            > quiver (maybe a left-over Robin hood 'jones' from my youth).
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Aelric S.
            >
            >


            --
            "Ausculta, feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non fundamentum pro formula administrationis est."
            -
            http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html


          • Noah
            Know from all I have read done I still find That most English archer used an arrow Bag and have found pic of modern ones Has anyone seen a true pic of one just
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 28, 2010
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              Know from all I have read done I still find 
              That most English archer used an arrow
              Bag and have found pic of modern ones 
              Has anyone seen a true pic of one just 
              Wondering how fair off mine is or if it is on 
              The spot and has anyone else used bodkins 
              Sent from my iPhone

              On Nov 28, 2010, at 10:38 PM, Taslen <taslen2000@...> wrote:

               

              Some excellent questions and some great answers! Nigel do you have a ideas of when the back quiver became a "image of the medieval archer"?
               
              Gaelen O'Grady
              Marche of Three Towers
              Mansfield Ohio


              From: "obsidian@..." <obsidian@...>
              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 7:09:16 PM
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] A couple questions..

               

              Greetings

              Why buy a tool when you can learn a skill? Reflexing arrows is easy, but you should practice a bit first. Get ahold of some old arrows, hopefully with a bit of bend to them. Find the bend, and orient the arrow so it bends inward, toward you. Grasp the shaft at each end, and extend the thumbs so they approach the pivot point. GENTLY noodge noodge noodge, sighting down the shaft frequently (lining it up with a vertical line like a doorframe helps). When you get a good sense of how much (or really, how little) pressure to exert, then start on your good shafts. Cedar realigns fairly readily, just be sure to very gentle, repeated pulls, and to check where the alignment is going constantly.

              As for quivers, it is something of a controversial point but, yeah, you are correct that European Mediaeval art generally shows sidequivers attached to the belt with a loop, or no quivers at all, the arrows simply being slipped inside the belt, or stuck in ground next to the archer if he is in a static position. Good examples can be found in the Bayeux Tapestry (11th cent.), the Luttrell Psalter (14th cent.), the St. Sebastian page in the Book of Hours of Catherine of Cleves (15th cent.), Or most Martyrdoms of St. Sebastian that include archers in the scene. Off the top of my head, I can think of only one painting which seems to show a back-quiver - an Italian Martyrdom of St. Sebastian, by Gozzoli, c. 1465. If it is (the painting is a bit ambiguous), than the object would appear to be a soft cloth bag rather than the hardshell cuirboulli types we are familiar with today.

              Cordially;
              Baron Nigel
              On Sun, November 28, 2010 5:43 pm, aelric_southlake wrote:
              > Greetings, name's Aelric. Been doing a bit of archery these past couple
              > years in a non-SCA context. Working on incorporating target archery into
              > my SCA events. I fight heavy.
              >
              > Anyway.. Currently I shoot a recurve at the local archery range here in
              > Martinez CA, and sometimes go out to Briones park, where there's a great
              > hiking range. I have an english longbow on order, and have recently
              > recieved a dozen self-noched arrows from the guy who makes arrows for
              > Rudderbows (Glacier Traditional Archery in Montana).
              >
              > They are beautiful. Tried them out with my recurve and they shoot GREAT.
              > A couple of them have slight bends, as expected, and I was wondering if
              > anyone out there had any thoughts on some of the 'straightening tools'
              > I've seen in archery catalogs. I tried the hand-straightening method the
              > fletcher included with my order, but I'm slightly concerned about screwing
              > them up somehow! Anybody have any good luck with any particular
              > 'straighteners'? Looking for brand names, styles, model no.s... Or should
              > I just hunker down and figure out how to do it by hand? ha ha ha...
              >
              > AND: On the subject of back quivers... It occured to me recently that
              > I've seen a lot of medieval art with images of archery, and I don't recall
              > ever seeing a representation of a back quiver. By no means am I suggesting
              > I've seen all the art on the subject - just don't recall ever seeing one.
              > Is the medieval/european back quiver a "hollywood-ism"? Cuz I like my back
              > quiver (maybe a left-over Robin hood 'jones' from my youth).
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Aelric S.
              >
              >


              --
              "Ausculta, feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non fundamentum pro formula administrationis est."
              -
              http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html


            • Eadric Anstapa
              Back quivers were clearly known of the question is how frequently they were used. Assyrian, Persian, and Greek art seems to frequently show archers with back
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 28, 2010
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                Back quivers were clearly known of the question is how frequently they
                were used. Assyrian, Persian, and Greek art seems to frequently show
                archers with back quivers while later and more northern European
                artworks seems to more frequently show quivers at the waist.

                Something that I have always thought was interesting is that depictions
                if Diana/Artemis seem to always have a back quiver regardless of the
                era when they were created. Wherever I go in any museum worldwide,
                Diana when depicted with a quiver always seems to have a back quiver.

                http://www.scabrewer.com/quiver/quivers.htm

                -Eadric

                > > AND: On the subject of back quivers... It occured to me recently that
                > > I've seen a lot of medieval art with images of archery, and I don't
                > recall
                > > ever seeing a representation of a back quiver. By no means am I
                > suggesting
                > > I've seen all the art on the subject - just don't recall ever seeing
                > one.
                > > Is the medieval/european back quiver a "hollywood-ism"? Cuz I like
                > my back
                > > quiver (maybe a left-over Robin hood 'jones' from my youth).
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > > Aelric S.
              • Carolus
                Check out the material on the Mary Rose excavation. They found several. Carolus
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 28, 2010
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                  Check out the material on the Mary Rose excavation. They found several.
                  Carolus

                  Noah wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Know from all I have read done I still find
                  > That most English archer used an arrow
                  > Bag and have found pic of modern ones
                  > Has anyone seen a true pic of one just
                  > Wondering how fair off mine is or if it is on
                  > The spot and has anyone else used bodkins
                  > Sent from my iPhone
                  >
                  > On Nov 28, 2010, at 10:38 PM, Taslen <taslen2000@...
                  > <mailto:taslen2000@...>> wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >> Some excellent questions and some great answers! Nigel do you have a
                  >> ideas of when the back quiver became a "image of the medieval archer"?
                  >>
                  >> Gaelen O'Grady
                  >> Marche of Three Towers
                  >> Mansfield Ohio
                  >>
                  >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >> *From:* "obsidian@... <mailto:obsidian@...>"
                  >> <obsidian@... <mailto:obsidian@...>>
                  >> *To:* SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                  >> *Sent:* Sun, November 28, 2010 7:09:16 PM
                  >> *Subject:* Re: [SCA-Archery] A couple questions..
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Greetings
                  >>
                  >> Why buy a tool when you can learn a skill? Reflexing arrows is easy,
                  >> but you should practice a bit first. Get ahold of some old arrows,
                  >> hopefully with a bit of bend to them. Find the bend, and orient the
                  >> arrow so it bends inward, toward you. Grasp the shaft at each end,
                  >> and extend the thumbs so they approach the pivot point. GENTLY noodge
                  >> noodge noodge, sighting down the shaft frequently (lining it up with
                  >> a vertical line like a doorframe helps). When you get a good sense of
                  >> how much (or really, how little) pressure to exert, then start on
                  >> your good shafts. Cedar realigns fairly readily, just be sure to very
                  >> gentle, repeated pulls, and to check where the alignment is going
                  >> constantly.
                  >>
                  >> As for quivers, it is something of a controversial point but, yeah,
                  >> you are correct that European Mediaeval art generally shows
                  >> sidequivers attached to the belt with a loop, or no quivers at all,
                  >> the arrows simply being slipped inside the belt, or stuck in ground
                  >> next to the archer if he is in a static position. Good examples can
                  >> be found in the Bayeux Tapestry (11th cent.), the Luttrell Psalter
                  >> (14th cent.), the St. Sebastian page in the Book of Hours of
                  >> Catherine of Cleves (15th cent.), Or most Martyrdoms of St. Sebastian
                  >> that include archers in the scene. Off the top of my head, I can
                  >> think of only one painting which seems to show a back-quiver - an
                  >> Italian Martyrdom of St. Sebastian, by Gozzoli, c. 1465. If it is
                  >> (the painting is a bit ambiguous), than the object would appear to be
                  >> a soft cloth bag rather than the hardshell cuirboulli types we are
                  >> familiar with today.
                  >>
                  >> Cordially;
                  >> Baron Nigel
                  >> On Sun, November 28, 2010 5:43 pm, aelric_southlake wrote:
                  >> > Greetings, name's Aelric. Been doing a bit of archery these past couple
                  >> > years in a non-SCA context. Working on incorporating target archery
                  >> into
                  >> > my SCA events. I fight heavy.
                  >> >
                  >> > Anyway.. Currently I shoot a recurve at the local archery range here in
                  >> > Martinez CA, and sometimes go out to Briones park, where there's a
                  >> great
                  >> > hiking range. I have an english longbow on order, and have recently
                  >> > recieved a dozen self-noched arrows from the guy who makes arrows for
                  >> > Rudderbows (Glacier Traditional Archery in Montana).
                  >> >
                  >> > They are beautiful. Tried them out with my recurve and they shoot
                  >> GREAT.
                  >> > A couple of them have slight bends, as expected, and I was wondering if
                  >> > anyone out there had any thoughts on some of the 'straightening tools'
                  >> > I've seen in archery catalogs. I tried the hand-straightening
                  >> method the
                  >> > fletcher included with my order, but I'm slightly concerned about
                  >> screwing
                  >> > them up somehow! Anybody have any good luck with any particular
                  >> > 'straighteners'? Looking for brand names, styles, model no.s... Or
                  >> should
                  >> > I just hunker down and figure out how to do it by hand? ha ha ha...
                  >> >
                  >> > AND: On the subject of back quivers... It occured to me recently that
                  >> > I've seen a lot of medieval art with images of archery, and I don't
                  >> recall
                  >> > ever seeing a representation of a back quiver. By no means am I
                  >> suggesting
                  >> > I've seen all the art on the subject - just don't recall ever
                  >> seeing one.
                  >> > Is the medieval/european back quiver a "hollywood-ism"? Cuz I like
                  >> my back
                  >> > quiver (maybe a left-over Robin hood 'jones' from my youth).
                  >> >
                  >> > Thanks,
                  >> > Aelric S.
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> --
                  >> "Ausculta, feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non
                  >> fundamentum pro formula administrationis est."
                  >> -
                  >> http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html
                  >> <http://web.raex.com/%7Eobsidian/regindex.html>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  > Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3284 - Release Date: 11/27/10 11:34:00
                  >
                  >
                • obsidian@raex.com
                  Greetings The best illustrations I can think of would be the border surrounding the images of SS. Fabian and Sebastian, in The Hours of Catherine of Cleves. A
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 29, 2010
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                    Greetings

                    The best illustrations I can think of would be the border surrounding the images of SS. Fabian and Sebastian, in The Hours of Catherine of Cleves. A facsimile version was printed by Braziller in 1966; the page is #123 in that. There is an online version of the entire work - the relevant page is at
                    http://www.themorgan.org/collections/works/cleves/manuscript.asp?page=97
                    In it, both longbow and crossbow quivers are displayed in great detail, and it's a work which all Mediaeval archery reenactors owe themselves to be familiar with.

                    Nigel

                    On Sun, November 28, 2010 10:50 pm, Noah wrote:
                    > Know from all I have read done I still find
                    > That most English archer used an arrow
                    > Bag and have found pic of modern ones
                    > Has anyone seen a true pic of one just
                    > Wondering how fair off mine is or if it is on
                    > The spot and has anyone else used bodkins
                    > Sent from my iPhone
                    >
                    > On Nov 28, 2010, at 10:38 PM, Taslen <taslen2000@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> Some excellent questions and some great answers! Nigel do you have a
                    >> ideas of when the back quiver became a "image of the medieval archer"?
                    >>
                    >> Gaelen O'Grady
                    >> Marche of Three Towers
                    >> Mansfield Ohio
                    >>
                    >>
                    From: "obsidian@..." <obsidian@...>
                    >> To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 7:09:16 PM
                    >> Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] A couple questions..
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Greetings
                    >>
                    >> Why buy a tool when you can learn a skill? Reflexing arrows is easy, but
                    >> you should practice a bit first. Get ahold of some old arrows, hopefully
                    >> with a bit of bend to them. Find the bend, and orient the arrow so it
                    >> bends inward, toward you. Grasp the shaft at each end, and extend the
                    >> thumbs so they approach the pivot point. GENTLY noodge noodge noodge,
                    >> sighting down the shaft frequently (lining it up with a vertical line
                    >> like a doorframe helps). When you get a good sense of how much (or
                    >> really, how little) pressure to exert, then start on your good shafts.
                    >> Cedar realigns fairly readily, just be sure to very gentle, repeated
                    >> pulls, and to check where the alignment is going constantly.
                    >>
                    >> As for quivers, it is something of a controversial point but, yeah, you
                    >> are correct that European Mediaeval art generally shows sidequivers
                    >> attached to the belt with a loop, or no quivers at all, the arrows
                    >> simply being slipped inside the belt, or stuck in ground next to the
                    >> archer if he is in a static position. Good examples can be found in the
                    >> Bayeux Tapestry (11th cent.), the Luttrell Psalter (14th cent.), the St.
                    >> Sebastian page in the Book of Hours of Catherine of Cleves (15th cent.),
                    >> Or most Martyrdoms of St. Sebastian that include archers in the scene.
                    >> Off the top of my head, I can think of only one painting which seems to
                    >> show a back-quiver - an Italian Martyrdom of St. Sebastian, by Gozzoli,
                    >> c. 1465. If it is (the painting is a bit ambiguous), than the object
                    >> would appear to be a soft cloth bag rather than the hardshell cuirboulli
                    >> types we are familiar with today.
                    >>
                    >> Cordially;
                    >> Baron Nigel
                    >> On Sun, November 28, 2010 5:43 pm, aelric_southlake wrote:
                    >> > Greetings, name's Aelric. Been doing a bit of archery these past
                    >> couple
                    >> > years in a non-SCA context. Working on incorporating target archery
                    >> into
                    >> > my SCA events. I fight heavy.
                    >> >
                    >> > Anyway.. Currently I shoot a recurve at the local archery range here
                    >> in
                    >> > Martinez CA, and sometimes go out to Briones park, where there's a
                    >> great
                    >> > hiking range. I have an english longbow on order, and have recently
                    >> > recieved a dozen self-noched arrows from the guy who makes arrows for
                    >> > Rudderbows (Glacier Traditional Archery in Montana).
                    >> >
                    >> > They are beautiful. Tried them out with my recurve and they shoot
                    >> GREAT.
                    >> > A couple of them have slight bends, as expected, and I was wondering
                    >> if
                    >> > anyone out there had any thoughts on some of the 'straightening tools'
                    >> > I've seen in archery catalogs. I tried the hand-straightening method
                    >> the
                    >> > fletcher included with my order, but I'm slightly concerned about
                    >> screwing
                    >> > them up somehow! Anybody have any good luck with any particular
                    >> > 'straighteners'? Looking for brand names, styles, model no.s... Or
                    >> should
                    >> > I just hunker down and figure out how to do it by hand? ha ha ha...
                    >> >
                    >> > AND: On the subject of back quivers... It occured to me recently that
                    >> > I've seen a lot of medieval art with images of archery, and I don't
                    >> recall
                    >> > ever seeing a representation of a back quiver. By no means am I
                    >> suggesting
                    >> > I've seen all the art on the subject - just don't recall ever seeing
                    >> one.
                    >> > Is the medieval/european back quiver a "hollywood-ism"? Cuz I like my
                    >> back
                    >>
                    > quiver (maybe a left-over Robin hood 'jones' from my youth).
                    />>> >
                    >> > Thanks,
                    >> > Aelric S.
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> --
                    >> "Ausculta, feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non
                    >> fundamentum pro formula administrationis est."
                    >> -
                    >> http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >


                    --
                    "Ausculta, feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non fundamentum pro formula administrationis est."
                    -
                    http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html
                  • obsidian@raex.com
                    Greetings I suspect it has a lot to do with cultural bents. Some archery-using cultures tend to favour back quivers, others use side quivers. We get a lot of
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 29, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Greetings

                      I suspect it has a lot to do with cultural bents. Some archery-using cultures tend to favour back quivers, others use side quivers. We get a lot of our images and predispositions from Amerindian usages (or, at least, popular renditions of what people thought American Indians did), and so I imagine there has been something of a transference from Hiawatha to Robin Hood, none of it terribly accurate.
                      Incidentally, I have to be an Indian-giver and take back my reference to the Gozzoli Martyrdom - I found a much larger and more detailed version of the painting, and it turns out that what I thought was a baldric with a bag attached is actually just a raised arm in a sleeve coloured differently than the overtunic. So, silly me, and I guess we are back to the back-quivers found on the Mary Rose (1540's) as documentation for European usage.

                      Nigel

                      On Sun, November 28, 2010 10:38 pm, Taslen wrote:
                      > Some excellent questions and some great answers! Nigel do you have a ideas
                      > of
                      > when the back quiver became a "image of the medieval archer"?
                      >
                      > Gaelen O'Grady
                      > Marche of Three Towers
                      > Mansfield Ohio
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      >
                      From: "obsidian@..." <obsidian@...>
                      > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 7:09:16 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] A couple questions..
                      >
                      >  
                      > Greetings
                      >
                      > Why buy a tool when you can learn a skill? Reflexing arrows is easy, but
                      > you
                      > should practice a bit first. Get ahold of some old arrows, hopefully with
                      > a bit
                      > of bend to them. Find the bend, and orient the arrow so it bends inward,
                      > toward
                      > you. Grasp the shaft at each end, and extend the thumbs so they approach
                      > the
                      > pivot point. GENTLY noodge noodge noodge, sighting down the shaft
                      > frequently
                      > (lining it up with a vertical line like a doorframe helps). When you get a
                      > good
                      > sense of how much (or really, how little) pressure to exert, then start on
                      > your
                      > good shafts. Cedar realigns fairly readily, just be sure to very gentle,
                      > repeated pulls, and to check where the alignment is going constantly.
                      >
                      > As for quivers, it is something of a controversial point but, yeah, you
                      > are
                      > correct that European Mediaeval art generally shows sidequivers attached
                      > to the
                      > belt with a loop, or no quivers at all, the arrows simply being slipped
                      > inside
                      > the belt, or stuck in ground next to the archer if he is in a static
                      > position.
                      > Good examples can be found in the Bayeux Tapestry (11th cent.), the
                      > Luttrell
                      > Psalter (14th cent.), the St. Sebastian page in the Book of Hours of
                      > Catherine
                      > of Cleves (15th cent.), Or most Martyrdoms of St. Sebastian that include
                      > archers
                      > in the scene. Off the top of my head, I can think of only one painting
                      > which
                      > seems to show a back-quiver - an Italian Martyrdom of St. Sebastian, by
                      > Gozzoli,
                      > c. 1465. If it is (the painting is a bit ambiguous), than the object would
                      > appear to be a soft cloth bag rather than the hardshell cuirboulli types
                      > we are
                      > familiar with today.
                      >
                      > Cordially;
                      > Baron Nigel
                      > On Sun, November 28, 2010 5:43 pm, aelric_southlake wrote:
                      >> Greetings, name's Aelric. Been doing a bit of archery these past couple
                      >> years in a non-SCA context. Working on incorporating target archery into
                      >> my SCA events. I fight heavy.
                      >>
                      >> Anyway.. Currently I shoot a recurve at the local archery range here in
                      >> Martinez CA, and sometimes go out to Briones park, where there's a great
                      >> hiking range. I have an english longbow on order, and have recently
                      >> recieved a dozen self-noched arrows from the guy who makes arrows for
                      >> Rudderbows (Glacier Traditional Archery in Montana).
                      >>
                      >> They are beautiful. Tried them out with my recurve and they shoot GREAT.
                      >> A couple of them have slight bends, as expected, and I was wondering if
                      >> anyone out there had any thoughts on some of the 'straightening tools'
                      >> I've seen in archery catalogs. I tried the hand-straightening method the
                      >> fletcher included with my order, but I'm slightly concerned about
                      >> screwing
                      >> them up somehow! Anybody have any good luck with any particular
                      >> 'straighteners'? Looking for brand names, styles, model no.s... Or
                      >> should
                      >> I just hunker down and figure out how to do it by hand? ha ha ha...
                      >>
                      >> AND: On the subject of back quivers... It occured to me recently that
                      >> I've seen a lot of medieval art with images of archery, and I don't
                      >> recall
                      >> ever seeing a representation of a back quiver. By no means am I
                      >> suggesting
                      >> I've seen all the art on the subject - just don't recall ever seeing
                      >> one.
                      >> Is the medieval/european back quiver a "hollywood-ism"? Cuz I like my
                      >> back
                      >> quiver (maybe a left-over Robin hood 'jones' from my youth).
                      >>
                      >> Thanks,
                      >> Aelric S.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > "Ausculta, feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non
                      > fundamentum
                      > pro formula administrationis est."
                      >
                      > -
                      > http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      --
                      "Ausculta, feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non fundamentum pro formula administrationis est."
                      -
                      http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html
                    • James W
                      I don t think they found any arrow bags on the Mary Rose but just the leather disks to suggest an arrow bag. James
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 29, 2010
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                        I don't think they found any arrow bags on the Mary Rose but just the leather disks to suggest an arrow bag.

                        James

                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Check out the material on the Mary Rose excavation. They found several.
                        > Carolus
                        >
                        > Noah wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Know from all I have read done I still find
                        > > That most English archer used an arrow
                        > > Bag and have found pic of modern ones
                        > > Has anyone seen a true pic of one just
                        > > Wondering how fair off mine is or if it is on
                        > > The spot and has anyone else used bodkins
                        > > Sent from my iPhone
                        > >
                        > > On Nov 28, 2010, at 10:38 PM, Taslen <taslen2000@...
                        > > <mailto:taslen2000@...>> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >>
                        > >> Some excellent questions and some great answers! Nigel do you have a
                        > >> ideas of when the back quiver became a "image of the medieval archer"?
                        > >>
                        > >> Gaelen O'Grady
                        > >> Marche of Three Towers
                        > >> Mansfield Ohio
                        > >>
                        > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > >> *From:* "obsidian@... <mailto:obsidian@...>"
                        > >> <obsidian@... <mailto:obsidian@...>>
                        > >> *To:* SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                        > >> *Sent:* Sun, November 28, 2010 7:09:16 PM
                        > >> *Subject:* Re: [SCA-Archery] A couple questions..
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> Greetings
                        > >>
                        > >> Why buy a tool when you can learn a skill? Reflexing arrows is easy,
                        > >> but you should practice a bit first. Get ahold of some old arrows,
                        > >> hopefully with a bit of bend to them. Find the bend, and orient the
                        > >> arrow so it bends inward, toward you. Grasp the shaft at each end,
                        > >> and extend the thumbs so they approach the pivot point. GENTLY noodge
                        > >> noodge noodge, sighting down the shaft frequently (lining it up with
                        > >> a vertical line like a doorframe helps). When you get a good sense of
                        > >> how much (or really, how little) pressure to exert, then start on
                        > >> your good shafts. Cedar realigns fairly readily, just be sure to very
                        > >> gentle, repeated pulls, and to check where the alignment is going
                        > >> constantly.
                        > >>
                        > >> As for quivers, it is something of a controversial point but, yeah,
                        > >> you are correct that European Mediaeval art generally shows
                        > >> sidequivers attached to the belt with a loop, or no quivers at all,
                        > >> the arrows simply being slipped inside the belt, or stuck in ground
                        > >> next to the archer if he is in a static position. Good examples can
                        > >> be found in the Bayeux Tapestry (11th cent.), the Luttrell Psalter
                        > >> (14th cent.), the St. Sebastian page in the Book of Hours of
                        > >> Catherine of Cleves (15th cent.), Or most Martyrdoms of St. Sebastian
                        > >> that include archers in the scene. Off the top of my head, I can
                        > >> think of only one painting which seems to show a back-quiver - an
                        > >> Italian Martyrdom of St. Sebastian, by Gozzoli, c. 1465. If it is
                        > >> (the painting is a bit ambiguous), than the object would appear to be
                        > >> a soft cloth bag rather than the hardshell cuirboulli types we are
                        > >> familiar with today.
                        > >>
                        > >> Cordially;
                        > >> Baron Nigel
                        > >> On Sun, November 28, 2010 5:43 pm, aelric_southlake wrote:
                        > >> > Greetings, name's Aelric. Been doing a bit of archery these past couple
                        > >> > years in a non-SCA context. Working on incorporating target archery
                        > >> into
                        > >> > my SCA events. I fight heavy.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Anyway.. Currently I shoot a recurve at the local archery range here in
                        > >> > Martinez CA, and sometimes go out to Briones park, where there's a
                        > >> great
                        > >> > hiking range. I have an english longbow on order, and have recently
                        > >> > recieved a dozen self-noched arrows from the guy who makes arrows for
                        > >> > Rudderbows (Glacier Traditional Archery in Montana).
                        > >> >
                        > >> > They are beautiful. Tried them out with my recurve and they shoot
                        > >> GREAT.
                        > >> > A couple of them have slight bends, as expected, and I was wondering if
                        > >> > anyone out there had any thoughts on some of the 'straightening tools'
                        > >> > I've seen in archery catalogs. I tried the hand-straightening
                        > >> method the
                        > >> > fletcher included with my order, but I'm slightly concerned about
                        > >> screwing
                        > >> > them up somehow! Anybody have any good luck with any particular
                        > >> > 'straighteners'? Looking for brand names, styles, model no.s... Or
                        > >> should
                        > >> > I just hunker down and figure out how to do it by hand? ha ha ha...
                        > >> >
                        > >> > AND: On the subject of back quivers... It occured to me recently that
                        > >> > I've seen a lot of medieval art with images of archery, and I don't
                        > >> recall
                        > >> > ever seeing a representation of a back quiver. By no means am I
                        > >> suggesting
                        > >> > I've seen all the art on the subject - just don't recall ever
                        > >> seeing one.
                        > >> > Is the medieval/european back quiver a "hollywood-ism"? Cuz I like
                        > >> my back
                        > >> > quiver (maybe a left-over Robin hood 'jones' from my youth).
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Thanks,
                        > >> > Aelric S.
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> --
                        > >> "Ausculta, feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non
                        > >> fundamentum pro formula administrationis est."
                        > >> -
                        > >> http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html
                        > >> <http://web.raex.com/%7Eobsidian/regindex.html>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        > > Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3284 - Release Date: 11/27/10 11:34:00
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • John edgerton
                        There is a good site for period illustrations of archers and their gear including quivers at: http://www.larsdatter.com/archers.htm It is also in the links
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 29, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          There is a good site for period illustrations of archers and their gear including quivers at:


                          It is also in the links section of this group.

                          I have only seen one period illustration of what might be a European back quiver and I have a fairly good collection of archery books. 

                          Jon
                          On Nov 28, 2010, at 2:43 PM, aelric_southlake wrote:

                           

                          Greetings, name's Aelric. Been doing a bit of archery these past couple years in a non-SCA context. Working on incorporating target archery into my SCA events. I fight heavy.

                          Anyway.. Currently I shoot a recurve at the local archery range here in Martinez CA, and sometimes go out to Briones park, where there's a great hiking range. I have an english longbow on order, and have recently recieved a dozen self-noched arrows from the guy who makes arrows for Rudderbows (Glacier Traditional Archery in Montana).

                          They are beautiful. Tried them out with my recurve and they shoot GREAT. A couple of them have slight bends, as expected, and I was wondering if anyone out there had any thoughts on some of the 'straightening tools' I've seen in archery catalogs. I tried the hand-straightening method the fletcher included with my order, but I'm slightly concerned about screwing them up somehow! Anybody have any good luck with any particular 'straighteners'? Looking for brand names, styles, model no.s... Or should I just hunker down and figure out how to do it by hand? ha ha ha...

                          AND: On the subject of back quivers... It occured to me recently that I've seen a lot of medieval art with images of archery, and I don't recall ever seeing a representation of a back quiver. By no means am I suggesting I've seen all the art on the subject - just don't recall ever seeing one. Is the medieval/european back quiver a "hollywood-ism"? Cuz I like my back quiver (maybe a left-over Robin hood 'jones' from my youth).

                          Thanks,
                          Aelric S.


                        • John edgerton
                          Carolus Could you give the reference for that. I would like to take a look. Thanks Jon
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 29, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Carolus

                            Could you give the reference for that. I would like to take a look.

                            Thanks

                            Jon

                            On Nov 28, 2010, at 8:39 PM, Carolus wrote:

                            > Check out the material on the Mary Rose excavation. They found
                            > several.
                            > Carolus
                          • John edgerton
                            There are many examples of quivers worn over the shoulder on a strap or baldric. But the quiver attached to the strap is worn at the waist. Jon
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 29, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              There are many examples of quivers worn over the shoulder on a strap or baldric.  But the quiver attached to the strap is worn at the waist.

                              Jon
                              On Nov 28, 2010, at 2:43 PM, aelric_southlake wrote:



                              AND: On the subject of back quivers... It occured to me recently that I've seen a lot of medieval art with images of archery, and I don't recall ever seeing a representation of a back quiver. By no means am I suggesting I've seen all the art on the subject - just don't recall ever seeing one. Is the medieval/european back quiver a "hollywood-ism"? Cuz I like my back quiver (maybe a left-over Robin hood 'jones' from my youth).

                              Thanks,
                              Aelric S.

                            • kburgess1@comcast.net
                              http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/results.asp?image=076863 http://www.larsdatter.com/archers.htm ... From: John edgerton To:
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 29, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/results.asp?image=076863
                                http://www.larsdatter.com/archers.htm
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "John edgerton" <sirjon1@...>
                                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 1:22:47 PM
                                Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] A couple questions..

                                 

                                There is a good site for period illustrations of archers and their gear including quivers at:



                                It is also in the links section of this group.

                                I have only seen one period illustration of what might be a European back quiver and I have a fairly good collection of archery books. 

                                Jon
                                On Nov 28, 2010, at 2:43 PM, aelric_southlake wrote:

                                 

                                Greetings, name's Aelric. Been doing a bit of archery these past couple years in a non-SCA context. Working on incorporating target archery into my SCA events. I fight heavy.

                                Anyway.. Currently I shoot a recurve at the local archery range here in Martinez CA, and sometimes go out to Briones park, where there's a great hiking range. I have an english longbow on order, and have recently recieved a dozen self-noched arrows from the guy who makes arrows for Rudderbows (Glacier Traditional Archery in Montana).

                                They are beautiful. Tried them out with my recurve and they shoot GREAT. A couple of them have slight bends, as expected, and I was wondering if anyone out there had any thoughts on some of the 'straightening tools' I've seen in archery catalogs. I tried the hand-straightening method the fletcher included with my order, but I'm slightly concerned about screwing them up somehow! Anybody have any good luck with any particular 'straighteners'? Looking for brand names, styles, model no.s... Or should I just hunker down and figure out how to do it by hand? ha ha ha...

                                AND: On the subject of back quivers... It occured to me recently that I've seen a lot of medieval art with images of archery, and I don't recall ever seeing a representation of a back quiver. By no means am I suggesting I've seen all the art on the subject - just don't recall ever seeing one. Is the medieval/european back quiver a "hollywood-ism"? Cuz I like my back quiver (maybe a left-over Robin hood 'jones' from my youth).

                                Thanks,
                                Aelric S.


                              • Carolus
                                I ll have to track down the reference on that. My notes made at the time says that it was a conical bag with a reinforced narrow bottom to protect against
                                Message 15 of 23 , Nov 29, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I'll have to track down the reference on that. My notes made at the
                                  time says that it was a conical bag with a reinforced narrow bottom to
                                  protect against wear from the points and a drawstring top. The leather
                                  disk was to hold the nocks and protect the fletching.
                                  Carolus

                                  John edgerton wrote:
                                  > Carolus
                                  >
                                  > Could you give the reference for that. I would like to take a look.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks
                                  >
                                  > Jon
                                  >
                                  > On Nov 28, 2010, at 8:39 PM, Carolus wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >> Check out the material on the Mary Rose excavation. They found
                                  >> several.
                                  >> Carolus
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                  > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                  > Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3286 - Release Date: 11/28/10 11:34:00
                                  >
                                  >
                                • John edgerton
                                  No need to do so. I am familiar with the arrow bags, and the leather spacers from the Mary Rose. Some of the spacers were found in arrow barrels. I thought
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Nov 29, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    No need to do so.  I am familiar with the arrow bags, and the leather spacers from the Mary Rose.  Some of the spacers were found in arrow barrels.  I thought you were referring to back quivers. 

                                    Thanks

                                    Jon

                                    On Nov 29, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Carolus wrote:

                                     

                                    I'll have to track down the reference on that. My notes made at the
                                    time says that it was a conical bag with a reinforced narrow bottom to
                                    protect against wear from the points and a drawstring top. The leather
                                    disk was to hold the nocks and protect the fletching.
                                    Carolus

                                    John edgerton wrote:
                                    > Carolus
                                    >
                                    > Could you give the reference for that. I would like to take a look.
                                    >
                                    > Thanks
                                    >
                                    > Jon
                                    >
                                    > On Nov 28, 2010, at 8:39 PM, Carolus wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >> Check out the material on the Mary Rose excavation. They found
                                    >> several.
                                    >> Carolus
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                    > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                    > Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3286 - Release Date: 11/28/10 11:34:00
                                    >
                                    >


                                  • Carolus
                                    No, no back quivers. I have given up trying to find them in period. They seem to be eastern or ancient culture items. Closest I have been able to find looks
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Nov 29, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      No, no back quivers. I have given up trying to find them in period.
                                      They seem to be eastern or ancient culture items. Closest I have been
                                      able to find looks like a belt quiver on a baldric.
                                      Carolus

                                      John edgerton wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > No need to do so. I am familiar with the arrow bags, and the leather
                                      > spacers from the Mary Rose. Some of the spacers were found in arrow
                                      > barrels. I thought you were referring to back quivers.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks
                                      >
                                      > Jon
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • frode_kettilsson
                                      Heh. The Victorians probably invented them. They invented everything. Even history. ;) Frode
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Nov 29, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Heh. The Victorians probably invented them. They invented everything. Even history. ;)
                                        Frode

                                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > No, no back quivers. I have given up trying to find them in period.
                                        > They seem to be eastern or ancient culture items. Closest I have been
                                        > able to find looks like a belt quiver on a baldric.
                                        > Carolus
                                        >
                                        > John edgerton wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > No need to do so. I am familiar with the arrow bags, and the leather
                                        > > spacers from the Mary Rose. Some of the spacers were found in arrow
                                        > > barrels. I thought you were referring to back quivers.
                                        > >
                                        > > Thanks
                                        > >
                                        > > Jon
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • warbow67
                                        ... *************************************** Have you looked at the Bayeux Tapestry? I have a picture of one scene with four (Brittany?) archers all using
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Nov 30, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > No, no back quivers. I have given up trying to find them in period.

                                          > Carolus

                                          ***************************************

                                          Have you looked at the Bayeux Tapestry? I have a picture of one scene with four (Brittany?) archers all using similar quivers but in different positions. One has his on a belt slung around both shoulders and across his chest. Another one looks like he has his slung over one shoulder but hanging low behind his back, a little higher than if it hung from his waist. They look like basic tube quivers but are colored brightly suggesting to me either cloth covered or richly dyed leather construction.

                                          Dave H
                                        • Carolus
                                          Yes, I have spent hours looking at different renditions of the tapestry (alas, I can t examine it in person) and have come to the conclusion that they are belt
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Dec 1, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Yes, I have spent hours looking at different renditions of the tapestry
                                            (alas, I can't examine it in person) and have come to the conclusion
                                            that they are belt quivers worn with the belt thrown over a shoulder,
                                            not a purpose designed back quiver.
                                            Carolus

                                            warbow67 wrote:
                                            > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >> No, no back quivers. I have given up trying to find them in period.
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >> Carolus
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            > ***************************************
                                            >
                                            > Have you looked at the Bayeux Tapestry? I have a picture of one scene with four (Brittany?) archers all using similar quivers but in different positions. One has his on a belt slung around both shoulders and across his chest. Another one looks like he has his slung over one shoulder but hanging low behind his back, a little higher than if it hung from his waist. They look like basic tube quivers but are colored brightly suggesting to me either cloth covered or richly dyed leather construction.
                                            >
                                            > Dave H
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ------------------------------------
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                                          • warbow67
                                            I agree completely. Makes me reconsider how I should make one myself. But it is common sense. In the 18th century during the American Revolution the British
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Dec 1, 2010
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                                              I agree completely. Makes me reconsider how I should make one myself.

                                              But it is common sense. In the 18th century during the American Revolution the British army uniforms underwent a period of change, and it is well documented that many soldiers wore they waistbelts with bayonets slung over their shoulder and across their chest before shoulder slings became standard issue.

                                              The Bayeux Tapestry is a goldmine of candid information, that pic I described has all four archers dressed differently and very individualistic. It makes sense that on campaign warriors would wear their equipment as it felt best to them individually. Plus as a waistbelt mounted quiver you can see that this archer has to sling it over both shoulders and across his chest as there is no other way to keep the quiver itself up that high, it would slide down his back if he just slung it over one shoulder. A second archer has his quiver at his waist but the belt goes over one shoulder. This tells me they are are attached to the belts on a sliding loop.

                                              Very interesting. And I will try to upload the picture.

                                              Dave H


                                              ---------------------------------




                                              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Yes, I have spent hours looking at different renditions of the tapestry
                                              > (alas, I can't examine it in person) and have come to the conclusion
                                              > that they are belt quivers worn with the belt thrown over a shoulder,
                                              > not a purpose designed back quiver.
                                              > Carolus

                                              ---------------------------------------


                                              > warbow67 wrote:
                                              > > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus <eulenhorst@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > >> No, no back quivers. I have given up trying to find them in period.
                                              > >>
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >> Carolus
                                              > >>
                                              > >
                                              > > ***************************************
                                              > >
                                              > > Have you looked at the Bayeux Tapestry? I have a picture of one scene with four (Brittany?) archers all using similar quivers but in different positions. One has his on a belt slung around both shoulders and across his chest. Another one looks like he has his slung over one shoulder but hanging low behind his back, a little higher than if it hung from his waist. They look like basic tube quivers but are colored brightly suggesting to me either cloth covered or richly dyed leather construction.
                                              > >
                                              > > Dave H
                                            • John edgerton
                                              That is also my opinion. Jon
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Dec 1, 2010
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                                                That is also my opinion. 

                                                Jon
                                                On Dec 1, 2010, at 12:17 AM, Carolus wrote:

                                                 

                                                Yes, I have spent hours looking at different renditions of the tapestry
                                                (alas, I can't examine it in person) and have come to the conclusion
                                                that they are belt quivers worn with the belt thrown over a shoulder,
                                                not a purpose designed back quiver.
                                                Carolus

                                                warbow67 wrote:
                                                > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >> No, no back

                                              • Dan Scheid
                                                something to remember these are DRAWINGS not pictures. they are one( or more then one) artists interpretation of events. they may have or have not been there.
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Dec 1, 2010
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                                                  something to remember  these are DRAWINGS not pictures. they are one( or more then one) artists interpretation of events. they may have or have not been there.  artistic license  takes on a whole new meaning
                                                  Damales

                                                  On 12/1/2010 10:05 AM, warbow67 wrote:
                                                   



                                                  I agree completely. Makes me reconsider how I should make one myself.

                                                  But it is common sense. In the 18th century during the American Revolution the British army uniforms underwent a period of change, and it is well documented that many soldiers wore they waistbelts with bayonets slung over their shoulder and across their chest before shoulder slings became standard issue.

                                                  The Bayeux Tapestry is a goldmine of candid information, that pic I described has all four archers dressed differently and very individualistic. It makes sense that on campaign warriors would wear their equipment as it felt best to them individually. Plus as a waistbelt mounted quiver you can see that this archer has to sling it over both shoulders and across his chest as there is no other way to keep the quiver itself up that high, it would slide down his back if he just slung it over one shoulder. A second archer has his quiver at his waist but the belt goes over one shoulder. This tells me they are are attached to the belts on a sliding loop.

                                                  Very interesting. And I will try to upload the picture.

                                                  Dave H

                                                  ---------------------------------

                                                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Yes, I have spent hours looking at different renditions of the tapestry
                                                  > (alas, I can't examine it in person) and have come to the conclusion
                                                  > that they are belt quivers worn with the belt thrown over a shoulder,
                                                  > not a purpose designed back quiver.
                                                  > Carolus

                                                  ---------------------------------------

                                                  > warbow67 wrote:
                                                  > > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus <eulenhorst@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > >> No, no back quivers. I have given up trying to find them in period.
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >> Carolus
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ***************************************
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Have you looked at the Bayeux Tapestry? I have a picture of one scene with four (Brittany?) archers all using similar quivers but in different positions. One has his on a belt slung around both shoulders and across his chest. Another one looks like he has his slung over one shoulder but hanging low behind his back, a little higher than if it hung from his waist. They look like basic tube quivers but are colored brightly suggesting to me either cloth covered or richly dyed leather construction.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Dave H


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