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Re: [SCA-Archery] New article

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  • John edgerton
    Yes, thank you. I would like comments on the mechanics of it as well. There will be those that would try to discredit the content because of the wrong
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 10, 2010
    Yes, thank you.  I would like comments on the mechanics of it as well.  There will be those that would try to discredit the content because  of the wrong formatting in the footnotes. 

    Thank you.

    Jon
    On Aug 10, 2010, at 7:58 PM, Cleve Johnson wrote:

     

    I would love to read it over and comment.  If you would like comments on grammar, punctuation, etc..., I am a college English instructor in mundane life.
     
    Eadric of Grenfeld
     
    Cleve Johnson
     
    "Reality is for people who can't handle science fiction."

  • Ered
    I would love to take a look Sir Jon ________________________________ From: John edgerton To: SCA-MissileCombat@yahoogroups.com Cc:
    Message 2 of 27 , Aug 10, 2010
      I would love to take a look Sir Jon


      From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
      To: SCA-MissileCombat@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 7:34:25 PM
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] New article

       

      I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
      in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
      in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
      is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
      helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
      available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
      comment a copy.

      Thank you

      Jon


    • jbl
      One thing to remember is the Polish nobility who comprised the cavalry (both heavy and light) of the Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth used the composite bow.
      Message 3 of 27 , Aug 10, 2010
        One thing to remember is the Polish nobility who comprised the cavalry (both heavy and light) of the Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth used the composite bow. Russians and other Eastern Europeans as well. In fact the ability of a nobleman to shoot the bow was almost as important as "sword play" in these cultures.
        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Bill Abney <blackwolf66@...> wrote:
        >
        > I would love to read this as well.
        >
        > Meryk
        >
      • John edgerton
        I looked into Eastern European nobles and archery. But, I could not a good source that clearly stated that some of the nobles used archery in battle. If you
        Message 4 of 27 , Aug 10, 2010
          I looked into Eastern European nobles and archery.  But, I could not a good source that clearly stated that some of the nobles used archery in battle.  If you know of any, I would greatly appreciate having them. I had to leave them out of my article, because of the lack of good source material. 

          Thanks 

          Jon
          On Aug 10, 2010, at 8:33 PM, jbl wrote:

           

          One thing to remember is the Polish nobility who comprised the cavalry (both heavy and light) of the Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth used the composite bow. Russians and other Eastern Europeans as well. In fact the ability of a nobleman to shoot the bow was almost as important as "sword play" in these cultures.
          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Bill Abney <blackwolf66@...> wrote:
          >
          > I would love to read this as well.
          >
          > Meryk
          >


        • Michael Scherrer
          Please, I would like to see your draft. Thomas of Cologne retired Calontir AG CC: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com To: SCA-MissileCombat@yahoogroups.com From:
          Message 5 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
            Please, I would like to see your draft.
            Thomas of Cologne retired Calontir AG
             

            CC: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            To: SCA-MissileCombat@yahoogroups.com
            From: sirjon1@...
            Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:34:25 -0700
            Subject: [SCA-Archery] New article

             
            I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
            in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
            in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
            is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
            helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
            available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
            comment a copy.

            Thank you

            Jon

          • captain sandusky
            The Osprey books on the Polish Husars and Polish Armies discuss the fact that both cavalry arms (Pancerni- Light Cavalry and Husaria heavy cavalry ) were
            Message 6 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
              The Osprey books on the Polish Husars and Polish Armies discuss the fact that both cavalry arms (Pancerni-"Light Cavalry" and Husaria "heavy cavalry") were nobles and one of their primary weapons was the composite bow. There are several sources written in Polish that discuss the use of the bow in warfare.   Like most if not all countries during this time period to be a considered a noble in the Commonwealth it was required that you take up arms when called.  The Nobles felt it was beneath their dignity to serve in the infantry. Another thing about Poland during this time is that they had a higher percentage of nobles (about 10%) then most countries. The bow was used by the Poles into the early 18th century.  In fact many of the Nobles brought them on campaign during the "Northern Wars" which made many of the Western Europeans laugh.  I also think that the bow for a noble in Poland was as much about a "fashion statement" as anything else as the bow was put into an ornate bow case with an arrow quiver on the other hip.
               
              I am also waiting on a book about the Hungarian wars against the Turks during this same time period.  When I get home I will find the pages in the Osprey books that would provide a good reference for you as well as the Polish resources I have.
               
              Jamie

              --- On Tue, 8/10/10, John edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:

              From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: New article
              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 11:54 PM

               
              I looked into Eastern European nobles and archery.  But, I could not a good source that clearly stated that some of the nobles used archery in battle.  If you know of any, I would greatly appreciate having them. I had to leave them out of my article, because of the lack of good source material. 

              Thanks 

              Jon
              On Aug 10, 2010, at 8:33 PM, jbl wrote:

               
              One thing to remember is the Polish nobility who comprised the cavalry (both heavy and light) of the Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth used the composite bow. Russians and other Eastern Europeans as well. In fact the ability of a nobleman to shoot the bow was almost as important as "sword play" in these cultures.
              --- In SCA-Archery@ yahoogroups. com, Bill Abney <blackwolf66@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > I would love to read this as well.
              >
              > Meryk
              >



            • ld.blackmoon
              greetings i would definatly like to read the article ; ) Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun Arthur ... From: John edgerton To: SCA-MissileCombat@yahoogroups.com Cc:
              Message 7 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                greetings
                 
                i would definatly like to read the article ; )
                Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun
                Arthur
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:34 PM
                Subject: [SCA-Archery] New article

                 

                I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
                in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
                in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
                is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
                helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
                available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
                comment a copy.

                Thank you

                Jon



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                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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              • Carolus
                I m in. Carolus
                Message 8 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                  I'm in.
                  Carolus

                  John edgerton wrote:
                  > I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
                  > in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
                  > in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
                  > is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
                  > helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
                  > available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
                  > comment a copy.
                  >
                  > Thank you
                  >
                  > Jon
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3063 - Release Date: 08/10/10 11:34:00
                  >
                  >
                • nelson3146@roadrunner.com
                  Sir Jon; I would love to read this I am a Historian and will send feed back. -- Carl Nelson Æoelwigg Ælfwiggsson Captain of Archers Barony of the Angels
                  Message 9 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                    Sir Jon;

                    I would love to read this I am a Historian and will send feed back.
                    --
                    Carl Nelson
                    Æoelwigg Ælfwiggsson
                    Captain of Archers Barony of the Angels
                    NELSON3146@...
                    PH#626-297-6513

                    ---- John edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
                    > I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
                    > in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
                    > in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
                    > is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
                    > helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
                    > available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
                    > comment a copy.
                    >
                    > Thank you
                    >
                    > Jon
                  • ld.blackmoon
                    greetings a very interesting read ! spotted a couple of typo s , but otherwise, looked very good to me = ) Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun Arthur ... From:
                    Message 10 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                      greetings
                       
                      a very interesting read !
                      spotted a couple of typo's , but otherwise, looked very good to me = )
                      Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun
                      Arthur
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 9:37 AM
                      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] New article

                       

                      greetings
                       
                      i would definatly like to read the article ; )
                      Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun
                      Arthur
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:34 PM
                      Subject: [SCA-Archery] New article

                       

                      I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
                      in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
                      in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
                      is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
                      helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
                      available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
                      comment a copy.

                      Thank you

                      Jon



                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 01:34:00



                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 01:34:00
                    • John edgerton
                      Thank you. That would be most helpful. Jon
                      Message 11 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                        Thank you.  That would be most helpful. 

                        Jon
                        On Aug 11, 2010, at 7:20 AM, captain sandusky wrote:

                         

                        The Osprey books on the Polish Husars and Polish Armies discuss the fact that both cavalry arms (Pancerni-"Light Cavalry" and Husaria "heavy cavalry") were nobles and one of their primary weapons was the composite bow. There are several sources written in Polish that discuss the use of the bow in warfare.   Like most if not all countries during this time period to be a considered a noble in the Commonwealth it was required that you take up arms when called.  The Nobles felt it was beneath their dignity to serve in the infantry. Another thing about Poland during this time is that they had a higher percentage of nobles (about 10%) then most countries. The bow was used by the Poles into the early 18th century.  In fact many of the Nobles brought them on campaign during the "Northern Wars" which made many of the Western Europeans laugh.  I also think that the bow for a noble in Poland was as much about a "fashion statement" as anything else as the bow was put into an ornate bow case with an arrow quiver on the other hip.
                         
                        I am also waiting on a book about the Hungarian wars against the Turks during this same time period.  When I get home I will find the pages in the Osprey books that would provide a good reference for you as well as the Polish resources I have.
                         
                        Jamie

                      • John edgerton
                        I have added a final section to the article. So rather than mail it separately to all those that I sent a copy to, I am posting it here. Jon ********** 13:
                        Message 12 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                          I have added a final section to the article.  So rather than mail it separately to all those that I sent a copy to, I am posting it here. 

                          Jon
                          **********
                          13:  Conclusion
                           
                          There are examples of Kings and other greater nobles as well as knights using archery in battle. There are examples of archery guilds with nobles, both greater and lesser, and gentry practicing to defend their cites and ships or go into battle for their overlord.  Records show that some knightly orders used and practiced archery for battle. There were even knightly orders for crossbowmen in Spain. The mounted yeomen archers of the Hundred Years War were of higher social status in their community than those of earlier years.  Scottish gentry served with bows in France as bodyguards to the king.  Byzantine saints are shown carrying bows. And there were even great English noblemen willing to defend their queen with their bows.  All this makes it extremely unlikely that only peasants and serfs ever used archery in war and that nobles never did.  I leave you to draw your own conclusion. 
                        • John edgerton
                          Thank you. I will look forward to your comments. Jon
                          Message 13 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                          Thank you. I will look forward to your comments.

                          Jon
                        • John edgerton
                          Thank you. I will be looking forward to your comments. Jon  ... Thank you. I will be looking forward to your comments. Jon On Aug 11, 2010, at 7:37 AM,
                          Message 14 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                          Thank you.  I will be looking forward to your comments. 

                          Jon

                        • John edgerton
                          Thank you. I am looking forward to your comments. Jon
                          Message 15 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                          Thank you. I am looking forward to your comments.

                          Jon
                        • John edgerton
                          Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the red and green underlines for the spelling and grammar check for my final draft? I am using Microsoft Word 2004 for
                          Message 16 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                            Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the red and green underlines for
                            the spelling and grammar check for my final draft? I am using
                            Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac.

                            Thanks

                            Jon
                          • James of the Lake
                            See if you can find Spelling/Grammar under the Tools menu or some such and unclick any checkmarks. We were forced to use M$ Office products at work, with
                            Message 17 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                              See if you can find Spelling/Grammar under the Tools menu or some such and unclick any checkmarks. We were forced to use M$ Office products at work, with constant involuntary upgrades. I usually had to spend qite a lot of time exorcizing all the many "helpers" built into Word before I could do technical writing. It was especially fustrating killing that paperclip guy... :-(

                              Good luck!

                              James

                              On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:44 AM, John edgerton wrote:

                              > Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the red and green underlines for
                              > the spelling and grammar check for my final draft? I am using
                              > Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac.
                              >
                              > Thanks
                              >
                              > Jon
                              >
                            • Edward deWitt
                              Jon, I don t use the MAC version, but usually in MS Word, if you have a misspelling   but it is a name or foreign language, you just have to save it to the
                              Message 18 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                                Jon, I don't use the MAC version, but usually in MS Word, if you have a "misspelling"  but it is a name or foreign language, you just have to save it to the dictionary.  Then your copy will not show the red spelling problems.  The grammar green, is just trying to help you on fragmented sentences and run on sentences, etc.  Sometime it will help correct it for you, or you have to make the sentence correct before it will go away.  When you get ready yo print, it, it won't show up anyway.


                                --- On Wed, 8/11/10, John edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:

                                From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
                                Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] New article
                                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                Cc: SCA-MissileCombat@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 2:44 PM

                                 

                                Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the red and green underlines for
                                the spelling and grammar check for my final draft? I am using
                                Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac.

                                Thanks

                                Jon


                              • John edgerton
                                Thank you. Jon
                                Message 19 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                                  Thank you. 

                                  Jon
                                  On Aug 11, 2010, at 12:44 PM, James of the Lake wrote:

                                   

                                  See if you can find Spelling/Grammar under the Tools menu or some such and unclick any checkmarks. We were forced to use M$ Office products at work, with constant involuntary upgrades. I usually had to spend qite a lot of time exorcizing all the many "helpers" built into Word before I could do technical writing. It was especially fustrating killing that paperclip guy... :-(

                                  Good luck!

                                  James

                                  On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:44 AM, John edgerton wrote:

                                  > Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the red and green underlines for
                                  > the spelling and grammar check for my final draft? I am using
                                  > Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks
                                  >
                                  > Jon
                                  >


                                • John edgerton
                                  Thank you. Jon
                                  Message 20 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
                                    Thank you.

                                    Jon

                                    On Aug 11, 2010, at 3:23 PM, Edward deWitt wrote:

                                     

                                    Jon, I don't use the MAC version, but usually in MS Word, if you have a "misspelling"  but it is a name or foreign language, you just have to save it to the dictionary.  Then your copy will not show the red spelling problems.  The grammar green, is just trying to help you on fragmented sentences and run on sentences, etc.  Sometime it will help correct it for you, or you have to make the sentence correct before it will go away.  When you get ready yo print, it, it won't show up anyway.


                                    --- On Wed, 8/11/10, John edgerton <sirjon1@pacbell. net> wrote:

                                    From: John edgerton <sirjon1@pacbell. net>
                                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] New article
                                    To: SCA-Archery@ yahoogroups. com
                                    Cc: SCA-MissileCombat@ yahoogroups. com
                                    Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 2:44 PM

                                     

                                    Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the red and green underlines for
                                    the spelling and grammar check for my final draft? I am using
                                    Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac.

                                    Thanks

                                    Jon



                                  • John edgerton
                                    I am having serious problems with my computer, a Mac. I may only be able to check my mail occasionally from my son s computer till I can have it repaired.
                                    Message 21 of 27 , Aug 12, 2010
                                      I am having serious problems with my computer, a Mac. I may only be
                                      able to check my mail occasionally from my son's computer till I can
                                      have it repaired.

                                      Please send your article comments anyway in the meantime.

                                      Jon
                                    • kburgess1@comcast.net
                                      well done !!! ... From: John edgerton To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 1:05:42 PM Subject: Re:
                                      Message 22 of 27 , Aug 15, 2010
                                        well done !!!
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "John edgerton" <sirjon1@...>
                                        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 1:05:42 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] New article [1 Attachment]

                                        Thank you.  I will be looking forward to your comments. 

                                        Jon



                                        On Aug 11, 2010, at 7:37 AM, ld.blackmoon wrote:

                                         

                                        greetings
                                         
                                        i would definatly like to read the article ; )
                                        Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun
                                        Arthur
                                      • John Atkins
                                        Jon, I would like to read and comment on your article. cog cogworks@triad.rr.com
                                        Message 23 of 27 , Aug 15, 2010
                                          Message
                                          Jon,
                                          I would like to read and comment on your article.
                                           
                                          cog
                                          cogworks@...
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