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  • John edgerton
    I have just finished the first full draft on an article on Archery in War and Social Status . You know the Nobles never used archery in battle. It was only
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 10, 2010
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      I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
      in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
      in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
      is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
      helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
      available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
      comment a copy.

      Thank you

      Jon
    • Cleve Johnson
      I would love to read it over and comment.  If you would like comments on grammar, punctuation, etc..., I am a college English instructor in mundane life.
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 10, 2010
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        I would love to read it over and comment.  If you would like comments on grammar, punctuation, etc..., I am a college English instructor in mundane life.
         
        Eadric of Grenfeld
         
        Cleve Johnson
         
        "Reality is for people who can't handle science fiction."
         



        From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
        To: SCA-MissileCombat@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 10:34:25 PM
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] New article

         

        I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
        in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
        in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
        is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
        helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
        available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
        comment a copy.

        Thank you

        Jon

      • russell
        Japanese Samurai are not Peasents, They are Nobles and they used bows in this time period. Asian Nobles as a grp used bows and were still Nobles. Yes I know
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 10, 2010
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          Japanese Samurai are not Peasents, They are Nobles and they used bows in this time period. Asian Nobles as a grp used bows and were still Nobles. Yes I know your intrest is western but please dont forget other parts of the world.


          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, John edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
          > in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
          > in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
          > is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
          > helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
          > available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
          > comment a copy.
          >
          > Thank you
          >
          > Jon
          >
        • Bill Abney
          I would love to read this as well. Meryk
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 10, 2010
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              I would love to read this as well.
             
            Meryk
          • John edgerton
            Yes, thank you. I would like comments on the mechanics of it as well. There will be those that would try to discredit the content because of the wrong
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 10, 2010
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            Yes, thank you.  I would like comments on the mechanics of it as well.  There will be those that would try to discredit the content because  of the wrong formatting in the footnotes. 

            Thank you.

            Jon
            On Aug 10, 2010, at 7:58 PM, Cleve Johnson wrote:

             

            I would love to read it over and comment.  If you would like comments on grammar, punctuation, etc..., I am a college English instructor in mundane life.
             
            Eadric of Grenfeld
             
            Cleve Johnson
             
            "Reality is for people who can't handle science fiction."

          • Ered
            I would love to take a look Sir Jon ________________________________ From: John edgerton To: SCA-MissileCombat@yahoogroups.com Cc:
            Message 6 of 27 , Aug 10, 2010
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              I would love to take a look Sir Jon


              From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
              To: SCA-MissileCombat@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 7:34:25 PM
              Subject: [SCA-Archery] New article

               

              I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
              in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
              in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
              is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
              helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
              available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
              comment a copy.

              Thank you

              Jon


            • jbl
              One thing to remember is the Polish nobility who comprised the cavalry (both heavy and light) of the Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth used the composite bow.
              Message 7 of 27 , Aug 10, 2010
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                One thing to remember is the Polish nobility who comprised the cavalry (both heavy and light) of the Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth used the composite bow. Russians and other Eastern Europeans as well. In fact the ability of a nobleman to shoot the bow was almost as important as "sword play" in these cultures.
                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Bill Abney <blackwolf66@...> wrote:
                >
                > I would love to read this as well.
                >
                > Meryk
                >
              • John edgerton
                I looked into Eastern European nobles and archery. But, I could not a good source that clearly stated that some of the nobles used archery in battle. If you
                Message 8 of 27 , Aug 10, 2010
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                  I looked into Eastern European nobles and archery.  But, I could not a good source that clearly stated that some of the nobles used archery in battle.  If you know of any, I would greatly appreciate having them. I had to leave them out of my article, because of the lack of good source material. 

                  Thanks 

                  Jon
                  On Aug 10, 2010, at 8:33 PM, jbl wrote:

                   

                  One thing to remember is the Polish nobility who comprised the cavalry (both heavy and light) of the Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth used the composite bow. Russians and other Eastern Europeans as well. In fact the ability of a nobleman to shoot the bow was almost as important as "sword play" in these cultures.
                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Bill Abney <blackwolf66@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I would love to read this as well.
                  >
                  > Meryk
                  >


                • Michael Scherrer
                  Please, I would like to see your draft. Thomas of Cologne retired Calontir AG CC: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com To: SCA-MissileCombat@yahoogroups.com From:
                  Message 9 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                    Please, I would like to see your draft.
                    Thomas of Cologne retired Calontir AG
                     

                    CC: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    To: SCA-MissileCombat@yahoogroups.com
                    From: sirjon1@...
                    Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:34:25 -0700
                    Subject: [SCA-Archery] New article

                     
                    I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
                    in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
                    in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
                    is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
                    helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
                    available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
                    comment a copy.

                    Thank you

                    Jon

                  • captain sandusky
                    The Osprey books on the Polish Husars and Polish Armies discuss the fact that both cavalry arms (Pancerni- Light Cavalry and Husaria heavy cavalry ) were
                    Message 10 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                      The Osprey books on the Polish Husars and Polish Armies discuss the fact that both cavalry arms (Pancerni-"Light Cavalry" and Husaria "heavy cavalry") were nobles and one of their primary weapons was the composite bow. There are several sources written in Polish that discuss the use of the bow in warfare.   Like most if not all countries during this time period to be a considered a noble in the Commonwealth it was required that you take up arms when called.  The Nobles felt it was beneath their dignity to serve in the infantry. Another thing about Poland during this time is that they had a higher percentage of nobles (about 10%) then most countries. The bow was used by the Poles into the early 18th century.  In fact many of the Nobles brought them on campaign during the "Northern Wars" which made many of the Western Europeans laugh.  I also think that the bow for a noble in Poland was as much about a "fashion statement" as anything else as the bow was put into an ornate bow case with an arrow quiver on the other hip.
                       
                      I am also waiting on a book about the Hungarian wars against the Turks during this same time period.  When I get home I will find the pages in the Osprey books that would provide a good reference for you as well as the Polish resources I have.
                       
                      Jamie

                      --- On Tue, 8/10/10, John edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:

                      From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
                      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: New article
                      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 11:54 PM

                       
                      I looked into Eastern European nobles and archery.  But, I could not a good source that clearly stated that some of the nobles used archery in battle.  If you know of any, I would greatly appreciate having them. I had to leave them out of my article, because of the lack of good source material. 

                      Thanks 

                      Jon
                      On Aug 10, 2010, at 8:33 PM, jbl wrote:

                       
                      One thing to remember is the Polish nobility who comprised the cavalry (both heavy and light) of the Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth used the composite bow. Russians and other Eastern Europeans as well. In fact the ability of a nobleman to shoot the bow was almost as important as "sword play" in these cultures.
                      --- In SCA-Archery@ yahoogroups. com, Bill Abney <blackwolf66@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I would love to read this as well.
                      >
                      > Meryk
                      >



                    • ld.blackmoon
                      greetings i would definatly like to read the article ; ) Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun Arthur ... From: John edgerton To: SCA-MissileCombat@yahoogroups.com Cc:
                      Message 11 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                        greetings
                         
                        i would definatly like to read the article ; )
                        Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun
                        Arthur
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:34 PM
                        Subject: [SCA-Archery] New article

                         

                        I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
                        in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
                        in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
                        is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
                        helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
                        available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
                        comment a copy.

                        Thank you

                        Jon



                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 01:34:00
                      • Carolus
                        I m in. Carolus
                        Message 12 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                          I'm in.
                          Carolus

                          John edgerton wrote:
                          > I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
                          > in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
                          > in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
                          > is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
                          > helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
                          > available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
                          > comment a copy.
                          >
                          > Thank you
                          >
                          > Jon
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >
                          >
                          > No virus found in this incoming message.
                          > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                          > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3063 - Release Date: 08/10/10 11:34:00
                          >
                          >
                        • nelson3146@roadrunner.com
                          Sir Jon; I would love to read this I am a Historian and will send feed back. -- Carl Nelson Æoelwigg Ælfwiggsson Captain of Archers Barony of the Angels
                          Message 13 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                            Sir Jon;

                            I would love to read this I am a Historian and will send feed back.
                            --
                            Carl Nelson
                            Æoelwigg Ælfwiggsson
                            Captain of Archers Barony of the Angels
                            NELSON3146@...
                            PH#626-297-6513

                            ---- John edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
                            > I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
                            > in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
                            > in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
                            > is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
                            > helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
                            > available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
                            > comment a copy.
                            >
                            > Thank you
                            >
                            > Jon
                          • ld.blackmoon
                            greetings a very interesting read ! spotted a couple of typo s , but otherwise, looked very good to me = ) Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun Arthur ... From:
                            Message 14 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                              greetings
                               
                              a very interesting read !
                              spotted a couple of typo's , but otherwise, looked very good to me = )
                              Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun
                              Arthur
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 9:37 AM
                              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] New article

                               

                              greetings
                               
                              i would definatly like to read the article ; )
                              Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun
                              Arthur
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:34 PM
                              Subject: [SCA-Archery] New article

                               

                              I have just finished the first full draft on an article on "Archery
                              in War and Social Status". You know the "Nobles never used archery
                              in battle. It was only used by peasants and serfs." argument. This
                              is 25 pages with footnotes refuting this and I would appreciate any
                              helpful comments or questions on it before I make it generally
                              available. I can email anyone that would like to read it over and
                              comment a copy.

                              Thank you

                              Jon



                              No virus found in this incoming message.
                              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                              Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 01:34:00



                              No virus found in this incoming message.
                              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                              Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 01:34:00
                            • John edgerton
                              Thank you. That would be most helpful. Jon
                              Message 15 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                                Thank you.  That would be most helpful. 

                                Jon
                                On Aug 11, 2010, at 7:20 AM, captain sandusky wrote:

                                 

                                The Osprey books on the Polish Husars and Polish Armies discuss the fact that both cavalry arms (Pancerni-"Light Cavalry" and Husaria "heavy cavalry") were nobles and one of their primary weapons was the composite bow. There are several sources written in Polish that discuss the use of the bow in warfare.   Like most if not all countries during this time period to be a considered a noble in the Commonwealth it was required that you take up arms when called.  The Nobles felt it was beneath their dignity to serve in the infantry. Another thing about Poland during this time is that they had a higher percentage of nobles (about 10%) then most countries. The bow was used by the Poles into the early 18th century.  In fact many of the Nobles brought them on campaign during the "Northern Wars" which made many of the Western Europeans laugh.  I also think that the bow for a noble in Poland was as much about a "fashion statement" as anything else as the bow was put into an ornate bow case with an arrow quiver on the other hip.
                                 
                                I am also waiting on a book about the Hungarian wars against the Turks during this same time period.  When I get home I will find the pages in the Osprey books that would provide a good reference for you as well as the Polish resources I have.
                                 
                                Jamie

                              • John edgerton
                                I have added a final section to the article. So rather than mail it separately to all those that I sent a copy to, I am posting it here. Jon ********** 13:
                                Message 16 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                                  I have added a final section to the article.  So rather than mail it separately to all those that I sent a copy to, I am posting it here. 

                                  Jon
                                  **********
                                  13:  Conclusion
                                   
                                  There are examples of Kings and other greater nobles as well as knights using archery in battle. There are examples of archery guilds with nobles, both greater and lesser, and gentry practicing to defend their cites and ships or go into battle for their overlord.  Records show that some knightly orders used and practiced archery for battle. There were even knightly orders for crossbowmen in Spain. The mounted yeomen archers of the Hundred Years War were of higher social status in their community than those of earlier years.  Scottish gentry served with bows in France as bodyguards to the king.  Byzantine saints are shown carrying bows. And there were even great English noblemen willing to defend their queen with their bows.  All this makes it extremely unlikely that only peasants and serfs ever used archery in war and that nobles never did.  I leave you to draw your own conclusion. 
                                • John edgerton
                                  Thank you. I will look forward to your comments. Jon
                                  Message 17 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                                  Thank you. I will look forward to your comments.

                                  Jon
                                • John edgerton
                                  Thank you. I will be looking forward to your comments. Jon  ... Thank you. I will be looking forward to your comments. Jon On Aug 11, 2010, at 7:37 AM,
                                  Message 18 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                                  Thank you.  I will be looking forward to your comments. 

                                  Jon

                                • John edgerton
                                  Thank you. I am looking forward to your comments. Jon
                                  Message 19 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                                  Thank you. I am looking forward to your comments.

                                  Jon
                                • John edgerton
                                  Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the red and green underlines for the spelling and grammar check for my final draft? I am using Microsoft Word 2004 for
                                  Message 20 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                                    Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the red and green underlines for
                                    the spelling and grammar check for my final draft? I am using
                                    Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac.

                                    Thanks

                                    Jon
                                  • James of the Lake
                                    See if you can find Spelling/Grammar under the Tools menu or some such and unclick any checkmarks. We were forced to use M$ Office products at work, with
                                    Message 21 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                                      See if you can find Spelling/Grammar under the Tools menu or some such and unclick any checkmarks. We were forced to use M$ Office products at work, with constant involuntary upgrades. I usually had to spend qite a lot of time exorcizing all the many "helpers" built into Word before I could do technical writing. It was especially fustrating killing that paperclip guy... :-(

                                      Good luck!

                                      James

                                      On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:44 AM, John edgerton wrote:

                                      > Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the red and green underlines for
                                      > the spelling and grammar check for my final draft? I am using
                                      > Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks
                                      >
                                      > Jon
                                      >
                                    • Edward deWitt
                                      Jon, I don t use the MAC version, but usually in MS Word, if you have a misspelling   but it is a name or foreign language, you just have to save it to the
                                      Message 22 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                                        Jon, I don't use the MAC version, but usually in MS Word, if you have a "misspelling"  but it is a name or foreign language, you just have to save it to the dictionary.  Then your copy will not show the red spelling problems.  The grammar green, is just trying to help you on fragmented sentences and run on sentences, etc.  Sometime it will help correct it for you, or you have to make the sentence correct before it will go away.  When you get ready yo print, it, it won't show up anyway.


                                        --- On Wed, 8/11/10, John edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:

                                        From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] New article
                                        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                        Cc: SCA-MissileCombat@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 2:44 PM

                                         

                                        Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the red and green underlines for
                                        the spelling and grammar check for my final draft? I am using
                                        Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac.

                                        Thanks

                                        Jon


                                      • John edgerton
                                        Thank you. Jon
                                        Message 23 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                                          Thank you. 

                                          Jon
                                          On Aug 11, 2010, at 12:44 PM, James of the Lake wrote:

                                           

                                          See if you can find Spelling/Grammar under the Tools menu or some such and unclick any checkmarks. We were forced to use M$ Office products at work, with constant involuntary upgrades. I usually had to spend qite a lot of time exorcizing all the many "helpers" built into Word before I could do technical writing. It was especially fustrating killing that paperclip guy... :-(

                                          Good luck!

                                          James

                                          On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:44 AM, John edgerton wrote:

                                          > Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the red and green underlines for
                                          > the spelling and grammar check for my final draft? I am using
                                          > Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac.
                                          >
                                          > Thanks
                                          >
                                          > Jon
                                          >


                                        • John edgerton
                                          Thank you. Jon
                                          Message 24 of 27 , Aug 11, 2010
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                                            Thank you.

                                            Jon

                                            On Aug 11, 2010, at 3:23 PM, Edward deWitt wrote:

                                             

                                            Jon, I don't use the MAC version, but usually in MS Word, if you have a "misspelling"  but it is a name or foreign language, you just have to save it to the dictionary.  Then your copy will not show the red spelling problems.  The grammar green, is just trying to help you on fragmented sentences and run on sentences, etc.  Sometime it will help correct it for you, or you have to make the sentence correct before it will go away.  When you get ready yo print, it, it won't show up anyway.


                                            --- On Wed, 8/11/10, John edgerton <sirjon1@pacbell. net> wrote:

                                            From: John edgerton <sirjon1@pacbell. net>
                                            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] New article
                                            To: SCA-Archery@ yahoogroups. com
                                            Cc: SCA-MissileCombat@ yahoogroups. com
                                            Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 2:44 PM

                                             

                                            Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the red and green underlines for
                                            the spelling and grammar check for my final draft? I am using
                                            Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac.

                                            Thanks

                                            Jon



                                          • John edgerton
                                            I am having serious problems with my computer, a Mac. I may only be able to check my mail occasionally from my son s computer till I can have it repaired.
                                            Message 25 of 27 , Aug 12, 2010
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                                              I am having serious problems with my computer, a Mac. I may only be
                                              able to check my mail occasionally from my son's computer till I can
                                              have it repaired.

                                              Please send your article comments anyway in the meantime.

                                              Jon
                                            • kburgess1@comcast.net
                                              well done !!! ... From: John edgerton To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 1:05:42 PM Subject: Re:
                                              Message 26 of 27 , Aug 15, 2010
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                                                well done !!!
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "John edgerton" <sirjon1@...>
                                                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 1:05:42 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] New article [1 Attachment]

                                                Thank you.  I will be looking forward to your comments. 

                                                Jon



                                                On Aug 11, 2010, at 7:37 AM, ld.blackmoon wrote:

                                                 

                                                greetings
                                                 
                                                i would definatly like to read the article ; )
                                                Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun
                                                Arthur
                                              • John Atkins
                                                Jon, I would like to read and comment on your article. cog cogworks@triad.rr.com
                                                Message 27 of 27 , Aug 15, 2010
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                                                  Message
                                                  Jon,
                                                  I would like to read and comment on your article.
                                                   
                                                  cog
                                                  cogworks@...
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