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Re: [SCA-Archery] Wrist Bow Slings legal???

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  • Carolus
    There are several factors. I apologize if I am covering things you already know but I will start wit thee basics so nothing is missed. I will begin with a
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 8, 2010
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      There are several factors. I apologize if I am covering things you
      already know but I will start wit thee basics so nothing is missed. I
      will begin with a description of grips and then explain how those factor
      into safety. I will refer to the generic "you" in referring to the archer.

      If you extend your arm in a natural manner (as if pointing), you will
      find a very relaxed position with the top of the hand in a plane with
      the top of the forearm. You will also find the cavity of the palm of
      the hand to follow a line backwards from top to bottom of about 19
      degrees. This angle is the reason for the styling of classic handguns
      such as the German Luger. It is also the reason for the designs adopted
      by many ergonomic tool manufacturers and for the "high wrist" grips on
      modern high end bows (some moderate priced recurves now use this as
      well). Which brings us back to archery. As I said holding a bow in
      this fashion is known as using a "high wrist" style. For many reasons
      it is the preferred grip the the best shooters. For our purposes here
      the important thing is that it produces the least stress on the muscles
      and joints of the arm.

      By contrast, a traditional longbow or a more basic bow will have a
      straight grip leading to the use of a "low wrist" style in which the
      wrist turns at a severe angle. This puts stress on the muscles of the
      lower forearm and keeps the arm under tension at all times. This can
      lead to repetitive stress injury (rsi) in the wrist and tendonitis in
      the elbow. This tension acts as "pre-loading" a spring and also impact
      shooting by causing "clutching" (the tendency to twist the bow inwards
      on release) or "exploding" (throwing the arm outward to compensate for
      "clutching"). This can cause arrows to not only miss the target but
      land in areas considered "safe" on some ranges.

      These factors are in play when the arm is held in a natural pointing
      position with the elbow pointing more or less downward. But for
      shooting we want to pronate the elbow or point it to the side so the
      joint moves though a horizontal line. Pronation does several things.
      It moves the muscle mass of the forearm out of the way of the string
      reducing the chance of "string slap" which can result in hematoma and
      locks the shoulder giving solid bone on bone contact and reducing the
      chance of rotator cuff injury (especially important with heavy weight
      bows. Unfortunately, it also puts the wrist in a horizontal plane.
      There are many benefits related to shooting which result from pronation
      which are not directly safety related. It is the use of pronation which
      makes the sling particularly a safety device.

      When the arm is held in the natural position it is rather easy to wrap
      the middle or index finger around the bow and keep the other fingers
      relaxed. This will retain the bow on release and limit the effects of
      clutching or exploding. However, it takes considerable training to do
      this and even a skilled archer will fail to properly relax when stressed
      or tired. When the arm is held in a pronated position, it is very
      difficult or impossible to get that satisfactory control of the bow. On
      release, the bow tends to jump forward and will escape the grip. A
      sling retains it. It is because of the other factors in shooting
      enabled by the sling that I consider it a valuable safety item.
      Carolus

      Geirr pík wrote:
      >
      >
      > Carolus, could you explain how it increases safety? I don't know much
      > about these devices and have never used one, and so I am curious.
      >
      > Thanks.
      >
      >
      > Geirr
      >
    • bradb@micro-link.net
      Relax. Someone is mis-informed. One of our Archery gods in Æthelmearc uses the wrist sling and is exceptionally proficient at killing targets. It is perfectly
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 16, 2010
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        Relax.

        Someone is mis-informed. One of our Archery gods in Æthelmearc uses the
        wrist sling and is exceptionally proficient at killing targets. It is
        perfectly acceptable for this kingdom although seldom seen. I use the 'V'
        grip without the sling. I simply place two of my finger tips oh so lightly
        against the face of the bow which prevents it from launching.

        Shoot well

        Brad


        > My archery teacher in Denver was Bob from Bobs Archery. He taught me to
        > shoot using a v method. Open hand forming a v not closing you fingers
        > around the bow . Which causes torque and less accuracy. But to open your
        > hand and form a v. In doing so you use a wrist/bow sling or thumb and
        > finger sling so you dont drop your bow. Not used in aiminf or anything
        > else. Just safty for no dropping you gear, The open v style gives more
        > accuracy and I have used this for 10 years. I was told SCA shooter dont
        > use wrist bow slings. I dont see any rules on it. Right now I will be
        > shooting Open not tradional style. Please note Olymic archers use this
        > method too. Bob froms Bobs Archery is a well know archer and ran his own
        > shop for many many years and is a legend here in Colorado.
        > Is it legal so use a wrist or finger=thumg or bow sling. they are made of
        > leather or other matrials. its not the sling that gives you better
        > accuracy its the v holding method.
        > Russ
        > I am use to shooting this way.
        >
        >
      • J C Ronsen
        I have been using a wrist sling with my recurve, in the SCA, for the last 15 years. I have never seen a rule by the SCA, or any Kingdom, that makes them
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 16, 2010
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          I have been using a wrist sling with my recurve, in the SCA, for the last 15 years. I have never seen a rule by the SCA, or any Kingdom, that makes them "illegal".
           
          Caleb Reynolds
          9th Baron of the Rhydderich Hael


          Aug 16, 2010 11:06:45 AM, SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com wrote:
          Relax.

          Someone is mis-informed. One of our Archery gods in Æthelmearc uses the
          wrist sling and is exceptionally proficient at killing targets. It is
          perfectly acceptable for this kingdom although seldom seen. I use the 'V'
          grip without the sling. I simply place two of my finger tips oh so lightly
          against the face of the bow which prevents it from launching.

          Shoot well

          Brad


          > My archery teacher in Denver was Bob from Bobs Archery. He taught me to
          > shoot using a v method. Open hand forming a v not closing you fingers
          > around the bow . Which causes torque and less accuracy. But to open your
          > hand and form a v. In doing so you use a wrist/bow sling or thumb and
          > finger sling so you dont drop your bow. Not used in aiminf or anything
          > else. Just safty for no dropping you gear, The open v style gives more
          > accuracy and I have used this for 10 years. I was told SCA shooter dont
          > use wrist bow slings. I dont see any rules on it. Right now I will be
          > shooting Open not tradional style. Please note Olymic archers use this
          > method too. Bob froms Bobs Archery is a well know archer and ran his own
          > shop for many many years and is a legend here in Colorado.
          > Is it legal so use a wrist or finger=thumg or bow sling. they are made of
          > leather or other matrials. its not the sling that gives you better
          > accuracy its the v holding method.
          > Russ
          > I am use to shooting this way.
          >
          >




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        • bradb@micro-link.net
          I get it. The V grip gives no inherant advantage because your *form* is going to put the arrow where you are aiming it no matter the style ya use to get it
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 16, 2010
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            I get it. The 'V' grip gives no inherant advantage because your *form* is
            going to put the arrow where you are aiming it no matter the style ya use
            to get it there.

            But I beg to differ.

            Present your bow to the target in a *very* loosely held hand. Now make a
            fist. If the string moved to the left in any measurable manner then you
            may assume that the same thing will happen uppon release with an arrow.
            The "V" grip simply eliminates the torque of the 'fisted' bow and allows
            the string to travel in a slightly straighter path upon release.

            Please bear in mind that this 'issue' is only for those who gotta have,
            absolutely need, will die without, perfection. This is not a situation
            which the average Archer will ever need to concern themselves.

            I had Archers at Pennsic, after tightening up their form, squealing with
            delight simply because they hit the Saunders mat.

            Brad


            >You are right, a sling gives no inherent
            > advantage. It does, however, add safety. One of the overlooked factors
            > is that it allows the bow arm to remain more relaxed and therefore
            > lessens the chance for shoulder, elbow or wrist injury.
            > Carolus
          • Hobbe
            From EK Policies: http://www.eastkingdom.org/Law/archery.html III. EQUIPMENT STANDARDS A. Bows 5. Bow straps are allowed. ~Hobbe
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 16, 2010
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              From EK Policies:
              http://www.eastkingdom.org/Law/archery.html

              III. EQUIPMENT STANDARDS
              A. Bows
              5. Bow straps are allowed.

              ~Hobbe
            • russell
              The V holding method is all I can shoot now after so many years lol. You can try it wrost is you go back to your old style but if you try it and get use to it
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 16, 2010
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                The V holding method is all I can shoot now after so many years lol.
                You can try it wrost is you go back to your old style but if you try it and get use to it your score my go up. I started this way its all I know lol. Sling is a safty measure but you dont even know its there lol in a little bit.



                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Hobbe" <clanyoungvp@...> wrote:
                >
                > From EK Policies:
                > http://www.eastkingdom.org/Law/archery.html
                >
                > III. EQUIPMENT STANDARDS
                > A. Bows
                > 5. Bow straps are allowed.
                >
                > ~Hobbe
                >
              • kburgess1@comcast.net
                I asked my brother , a compound bow shooter, if that was where the seeing eye dog leash attached at. ... From: russell To:
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 16, 2010
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                  I asked my brother , a compound bow shooter, if that was where the seeing eye dog leash attached at.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "russell" <russellregister@...>
                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 5:21:58 PM
                  Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Wrist Bow Slings legal???

                   


                  The V holding method is all I can shoot now after so many years lol.
                  You can try it wrost is you go back to your old style but if you try it and get use to it your score my go up. I started this way its all I know lol. Sling is a safty measure but you dont even know its there lol in a little bit.

                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Hobbe" <clanyoungvp@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From EK Policies:
                  > http://www.eastkingdom.org/Law/archery.html
                  >
                  > III. EQUIPMENT STANDARDS
                  > A. Bows
                  > 5. Bow straps are allowed.
                  >
                  > ~Hobbe
                  >

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