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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Where to Find...

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  • THL Caedmon Wilson
    http://www.woodbows.com/ This maker many bows up to 50#. This may be an area where you may have to buy a few tools and learn to make your own, if you want it
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 13, 2010
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      http://www.woodbows.com/

      This maker many bows up to 50#.

      This may be an area where you may have to buy a few tools and learn to
      make your own, if you want it to stay on the cheap.

      -Caedmon
    • frode_kettilsson
      I d agree with that, maybe if you have a bowyer in your area who could assist, it might be possible to put together something with your draw weight that was
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 13, 2010
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        I'd agree with that, maybe if you have a bowyer in your area who could assist, it might be possible to put together something with your draw weight that was actually a terrible bow (heavy, hand shock, slow, ugly in the extreme, etc.)but perfect for strength training.
        Frode

        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, THL Caedmon Wilson <caedmon.wilson@...> wrote:

        >
        > This may be an area where you may have to buy a few tools and learn to
        > make your own, if you want it to stay on the cheap.
        >
        > -Caedmon
        >
      • Ioldanach
        I agree, when you get outside the 30-70# range you re entering custom territory. Whatever you want will likely have to be custom made for your needs. You ll
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 13, 2010
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          I agree, when you get outside the 30-70# range you're entering custom
          territory. Whatever you want will likely have to be custom made for
          your needs. You'll have to either learn to do it yourself, or have it
          made for you.

          - Broch

          On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:31 AM, frode_kettilsson
          <anthonyspangler@...> wrote:
          > I'd agree with that, maybe if you have a bowyer in your area who could assist, it might be possible to put together something with your draw weight that was actually a terrible bow (heavy, hand shock, slow, ugly in the extreme, etc.)but perfect for strength training.
          > Frode
          >
          > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, THL Caedmon Wilson <caedmon.wilson@...> wrote:
          >
          >>
          >> This may be an area where you may have to buy a few tools and learn to
          >> make your own, if you want it to stay on the cheap.
          >>
          >> -Caedmon
          >>
          >
          >
        • ren_junkie
          Ok, so who builds customs? Someone on this list has to own an English longbow in warbow weights. Not gonna build something that heavy myself until A)I don t
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 13, 2010
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            Ok, so who builds customs? Someone on this list has to own an English longbow in warbow weights.

            Not gonna build something that heavy myself until A)I don't live in an apartment (or at least have my own dedicated shop somewhere), and B) Have been building bows for years. I'm not building anything that powerful without a lot of years of experience.

            Thanks!
            Christopher

            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Ioldanach <ioldanach@...> wrote:
            >
            > I agree, when you get outside the 30-70# range you're entering custom
            > territory. Whatever you want will likely have to be custom made for
            > your needs. You'll have to either learn to do it yourself, or have it
            > made for you.
            >
            > - Broch
            >
            > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:31 AM, frode_kettilsson
            > <anthonyspangler@...> wrote:
            > > I'd agree with that, maybe if you have a bowyer in your area who could assist, it might be possible to put together something with your draw weight that was actually a terrible bow (heavy, hand shock, slow, ugly in the extreme, etc.)but perfect for strength training.
            > > Frode
            > >
            > > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, THL Caedmon Wilson <caedmon.wilson@> wrote:
            > >
            > >>
            > >> This may be an area where you may have to buy a few tools and learn to
            > >> make your own, if you want it to stay on the cheap.
            > >>
            > >> -Caedmon
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Omelan
            Try http://www.selfbow.com/ or Bickerstaff bows I shoot a #65 English style longbow 76 inches long from the Pacific Yew Bow Co. Not a war bow weight but very
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 13, 2010
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              Try http://www.selfbow.com/
              or Bickerstaff bows
              I shoot a #65 English style longbow 76 inches long from the Pacific Yew Bow Co. Not a war bow weight but very nice!
              Omelan
              East Kingdom

              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "ren_junkie" <ren_junkie@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ok, so who builds customs? Someone on this list has to own an English longbow in warbow weights.
              >
              > Not gonna build something that heavy myself until A)I don't live in an apartment (or at least have my own dedicated shop somewhere), and B) Have been building bows for years. I'm not building anything that powerful without a lot of years of experience.
              >
              > Thanks!
              > Christopher
              >
              > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Ioldanach <ioldanach@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I agree, when you get outside the 30-70# range you're entering custom
              > > territory. Whatever you want will likely have to be custom made for
              > > your needs. You'll have to either learn to do it yourself, or have it
              > > made for you.
              > >
              > > - Broch
              > >
              > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:31 AM, frode_kettilsson
              > > <anthonyspangler@> wrote:
              > > > I'd agree with that, maybe if you have a bowyer in your area who could assist, it might be possible to put together something with your draw weight that was actually a terrible bow (heavy, hand shock, slow, ugly in the extreme, etc.)but perfect for strength training.
              > > > Frode
              > > >
              > > > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, THL Caedmon Wilson <caedmon.wilson@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >>
              > > >> This may be an area where you may have to buy a few tools and learn to
              > > >> make your own, if you want it to stay on the cheap.
              > > >>
              > > >> -Caedmon
              > > >>
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Carolus
              My friend, you are entering very rarified territory with that search. Bickertaff or St. Charles or an equivalent custom maker is going to be your choice. Plan
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 13, 2010
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                My friend, you are entering very rarified territory with that search.
                Bickertaff or St. Charles or an equivalent custom maker is going to be
                your choice. Plan on spending some serious bucks.

                Note that Howard hill used a lot of American longbow designs with bamboo
                backings and non-historical construction. He also didn't reach into the
                warbow poundages of over 120# often. The deformities found in archers
                were skeletal and it was quite possible for them to not be outwardly
                visible but could cause a lot of pain. Be careful you're going into
                unexplored territory. Better talk to some trainers and weight lifters
                for advice.

                As to making your own bow, talking to the trad bow makers, they tell me
                you don't need a shop to make bows, it's mostly a matter fo planes,
                shaves, scrapers, rasps, and files. All they seem to need is a place to
                sit outside and drop the shavings.
                Carolus

                Omelan wrote:
                > Try http://www.selfbow.com/
                > or Bickerstaff bows
                > I shoot a #65 English style longbow 76 inches long from the Pacific Yew Bow Co. Not a war bow weight but very nice!
                > Omelan
                > East Kingdom
                >
                > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "ren_junkie" <ren_junkie@...> wrote:
                >
                >> Ok, so who builds customs? Someone on this list has to own an English longbow in warbow weights.
                >>
                >> Not gonna build something that heavy myself until A)I don't live in an apartment (or at least have my own dedicated shop somewhere), and B) Have been building bows for years. I'm not building anything that powerful without a lot of years of experience.
                >>
                >> Thanks!
                >> Christopher
                >>
                >
              • James W
                Hi Christopher, Like others have said, a custom warbow just for strength training is going to be quite expensive. And to use it just for strength training?
                Message 7 of 19 , Jul 13, 2010
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                  Hi Christopher,

                  Like others have said, a custom warbow just for strength training is going to be quite expensive. And to use it just for strength training? Seems to me to be a waste of a good bow.

                  If it is just strength training, then I would go with an elastic training aid. Don't just toss the idea aside because you used a lightweight elastic.

                  3Rivers sells the Bowfit system which comes in 3 sizes, medium (30-50 pounds), heavy (50-80 pounds), and Safari (80-100 pounds). This is available for under $30. You buy the elastic for around $15.

                  Of course, you could probably rig up something yourself with surgical tubing.

                  The advantage of going with something like this is you actually have a progression to follow. If I was doing weightlifting and finding myself shaking at 50 pounds, I wouldn't say to myself, "Well, I just have to start lifting 100 pounds to build up my strength." If I wanted to lift 100 pounds, I would work up to 100 pounds in increments. And, yes, it would take some time. On the other hand, if my goal was to lift 50 pounds without shaking, I really don't ever need to lift more than 50 pounds. And I will get there a helluva lot faster than if I stick to 50 and below then trying some shortcut where I try to lift 60 or 70 pounds.

                  Another option is to go with a bundle or panda bow. The panda bow is so named because bamboo cane is used. You essentially bundle different lengths of bamboo cane together creating a spring leaf type tension when you add the bowstring. It is cheap and easy to build. If you want to increase the weight, you just add another garden cane. You could do it with other material like figerglass rods.

                  That all said, archery is different than weightlifting. Accuracy will be better with a lighter weight bow than a heavier bow. Flat line trajectory is not that important. SCA rules do allow limb marks but there are other aiming techniques.

                  If you desire to shoot a war bow because that would be really cool to shoot the kind of weight that the medieval archers shot, I am all behind you. I would love to do that myself. I will probably never get there but it sure would be cool.

                  But to draw a 100 pound bow just to make myself steadier with a 50 pound bow? Naw, I don't see the logic.

                  In Service,
                  James Wolfden
                • ren_junkie
                  Thanks for the link. Those are awfully nice. And 76 ? Awesome. Never held a bow that could look me in the eye before....:D Does the wood of the bow make an
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jul 13, 2010
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                    Thanks for the link. Those are awfully nice. And 76"? Awesome. Never held a bow that could look me in the eye before....:D

                    Does the wood of the bow make an impact on how the body reacts to drawing high weights?

                    I'm not talking about shooting an uber-weighted bow constantly. Just reasonably accurately (and far for doing distance experiments). The big thing is, I don't want to shake all over the place when I go to shoot. Not thinking of using it as my every day bow. And I don't have any place to work on it. Not allowed to do stuff like that at the apartment or my storage unit (I've checked...no woodcraft). And more than that, I've never made a bow before (well, I did, but using a rubber band as my power hardly qualifies), and it would be a loooong time, and a metric crapton of successful bows before I'd try to build such a beast.

                    I'm not looking to use a custom bow as strength training. I'm looking to use a custom bow as a shooting implement. Sorta living archaeology and maybe musk ox hunting (kind of a bucket list thing). I'm thinking about having leaf springs made to custom size and weight (since I can't find a cheap used bow on ebay) for the strength. And these would be more powerful than the shooting bow. Like I said, the 50-55# old recurve has made a dramatic impact on my ability to draw the 30# shooter. I'm much more stable. I'd want a 75# for strengthening to a 50# shooter, 100# for 75#, and so on. I was just going to progress in increments of 25#. Altho as an every day, I probably wouldn't be above 65# for target and hunting. But I need to be able to reasonably use warbow weights. Just not all the time. This is a goal, in no small part because I want to be able to do my own experimental archaeology kinda stuff (like shooting at historically accurate armours).

                    So, to sum up, no custom warbows for muscles, custom warbows for warbowing. Was thinking of doing progression-y leaf spring things for strength, but now that I know the elastic thingies from 3-Rivers goes up to 100#, won't need that for a while. Don't plan to shoot the war bows everyday. Plan to break it out 6-12 times a year. And building a bow is a non-option for me for at least a year (lease term), and building a war beast is a whole lot of successful bows down the road.

                    I didn't really make what I was after quite clear I guess. It happens to me a lot online. Don't get my point across quite as well in the written word as I do verbally. Sorry for not being entirely clear.

                    Thanks!
                    Christopher

                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "James W" <jameswolfden@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Christopher,
                    >
                    > Like others have said, a custom warbow just for strength training is going to be quite expensive. And to use it just for strength training? Seems to me to be a waste of a good bow.
                    >
                    > If it is just strength training, then I would go with an elastic training aid. Don't just toss the idea aside because you used a lightweight elastic.
                    >
                    > 3Rivers sells the Bowfit system which comes in 3 sizes, medium (30-50 pounds), heavy (50-80 pounds), and Safari (80-100 pounds). This is available for under $30. You buy the elastic for around $15.
                    >
                    > Of course, you could probably rig up something yourself with surgical tubing.
                    >
                    > The advantage of going with something like this is you actually have a progression to follow. If I was doing weightlifting and finding myself shaking at 50 pounds, I wouldn't say to myself, "Well, I just have to start lifting 100 pounds to build up my strength." If I wanted to lift 100 pounds, I would work up to 100 pounds in increments. And, yes, it would take some time. On the other hand, if my goal was to lift 50 pounds without shaking, I really don't ever need to lift more than 50 pounds. And I will get there a helluva lot faster than if I stick to 50 and below then trying some shortcut where I try to lift 60 or 70 pounds.
                    >
                    > Another option is to go with a bundle or panda bow. The panda bow is so named because bamboo cane is used. You essentially bundle different lengths of bamboo cane together creating a spring leaf type tension when you add the bowstring. It is cheap and easy to build. If you want to increase the weight, you just add another garden cane. You could do it with other material like figerglass rods.
                    >
                    > That all said, archery is different than weightlifting. Accuracy will be better with a lighter weight bow than a heavier bow. Flat line trajectory is not that important. SCA rules do allow limb marks but there are other aiming techniques.
                    >
                    > If you desire to shoot a war bow because that would be really cool to shoot the kind of weight that the medieval archers shot, I am all behind you. I would love to do that myself. I will probably never get there but it sure would be cool.
                    >
                    > But to draw a 100 pound bow just to make myself steadier with a 50 pound bow? Naw, I don't see the logic.
                    >
                    > In Service,
                    > James Wolfden
                    >
                  • Bill Tait
                    The second bow I ever shot, and my first one purchased was a mid 70 s era recurve, pulling 50#. To build the strength to shoot it, I, ummm,, SHOT it. I didn t
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jul 13, 2010
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                      The second bow I ever shot, and my first one purchased was a mid 70's era recurve, pulling 50#. To build the strength to shoot it, I, ummm,, SHOT it. I didn't pullt 75# to shoot 50, I simply shot 50. I shot it lots. I'm talking 4 hrs a day, 3-4 days a week.


                      In my more recent archery adventures, I started out with a 38# recurve. At the end of a day I'd be shaky. I worked on my form, proper joint positioning and muscle interaction. I've gone through another set of limbs, and am now shooting a third, seeing 42# at the string. No, not a huge weight, but since July 1 I've shot 1618 arrows with only two days off. I know I was hitting 120+ arrow days leading up to Jul 1, but that's when I reset my counter. When I come to my anchor, I am able to hold steady for 8-10 seconds, which is far longer than needed.

                      I'm poasting in a draft email from earlier in this thread:

                      I guess my biggest question would be _WHY?_

                      Why do you want to shoot such heavy bows? For SCA shooting, or more of an attempt to recreate the feeling of being an archer in period? How many shots do you want to take with it? Shooting Royal Rounds, Yorks, or just demo'ing the crazy-heavy bow for friends?

                      You mentiion wanting to hold the bow "steady as a rock for long periods". A wooden longbow does not take well to being drawn and held for extended periods. The wood will develop a memory, lose cast, and be less efficient than before. Ideally, you should start your draw being close to "on target", draw, aim and release. Anchoring, aiming and release should only take a few seconds.


                      Okay, a few of my questions have been answered. I only hope that you see this as a multi-year project, and don't expect to be pulling crazy weights this year, or even next. I just don't want to hear of anyone exploding their shoulders.



                      William Arwemakere


                      On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:19 PM, ren_junkie <ren_junkie@...> wrote:
                       



                      Thanks for the link. Those are awfully nice. And 76"? Awesome. Never held a bow that could look me in the eye before....:D

                      Does the wood of the bow make an impact on how the body reacts to drawing high weights?

                      I'm not talking about shooting an uber-weighted bow constantly. Just reasonably accurately (and far for doing distance experiments). The big thing is, I don't want to shake all over the place when I go to shoot. Not thinking of using it as my every day bow. And I don't have any place to work on it. Not allowed to do stuff like that at the apartment or my storage unit (I've checked...no woodcraft). And more than that, I've never made a bow before (well, I did, but using a rubber band as my power hardly qualifies), and it would be a loooong time, and a metric crapton of successful bows before I'd try to build such a beast.

                      I'm not looking to use a custom bow as strength training. I'm looking to use a custom bow as a shooting implement. Sorta living archaeology and maybe musk ox hunting (kind of a bucket list thing). I'm thinking about having leaf springs made to custom size and weight (since I can't find a cheap used bow on ebay) for the strength. And these would be more powerful than the shooting bow. Like I said, the 50-55# old recurve has made a dramatic impact on my ability to draw the 30# shooter. I'm much more stable. I'd want a 75# for strengthening to a 50# shooter, 100# for 75#, and so on. I was just going to progress in increments of 25#. Altho as an every day, I probably wouldn't be above 65# for target and hunting. But I need to be able to reasonably use warbow weights. Just not all the time. This is a goal, in no small part because I want to be able to do my own experimental archaeology kinda stuff (like shooting at historically accurate armours).

                      So, to sum up, no custom warbows for muscles, custom warbows for warbowing. Was thinking of doing progression-y leaf spring things for strength, but now that I know the elastic thingies from 3-Rivers goes up to 100#, won't need that for a while. Don't plan to shoot the war bows everyday. Plan to break it out 6-12 times a year. And building a bow is a non-option for me for at least a year (lease term), and building a war beast is a whole lot of successful bows down the road.

                      I didn't really make what I was after quite clear I guess. It happens to me a lot online. Don't get my point across quite as well in the written word as I do verbally. Sorry for not being entirely clear.

                      Thanks!
                      Christopher



                      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "James W" <jameswolfden@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Christopher,
                      >
                      > Like others have said, a custom warbow just for strength training is going to be quite expensive. And to use it just for strength training? Seems to me to be a waste of a good bow.
                      >
                      > If it is just strength training, then I would go with an elastic training aid. Don't just toss the idea aside because you used a lightweight elastic.
                      >
                      > 3Rivers sells the Bowfit system which comes in 3 sizes, medium (30-50 pounds), heavy (50-80 pounds), and Safari (80-100 pounds). This is available for under $30. You buy the elastic for around $15.
                      >
                      > Of course, you could probably rig up something yourself with surgical tubing.
                      >
                      > The advantage of going with something like this is you actually have a progression to follow. If I was doing weightlifting and finding myself shaking at 50 pounds, I wouldn't say to myself, "Well, I just have to start lifting 100 pounds to build up my strength." If I wanted to lift 100 pounds, I would work up to 100 pounds in increments. And, yes, it would take some time. On the other hand, if my goal was to lift 50 pounds without shaking, I really don't ever need to lift more than 50 pounds. And I will get there a helluva lot faster than if I stick to 50 and below then trying some shortcut where I try to lift 60 or 70 pounds.
                      >
                      > Another option is to go with a bundle or panda bow. The panda bow is so named because bamboo cane is used. You essentially bundle different lengths of bamboo cane together creating a spring leaf type tension when you add the bowstring. It is cheap and easy to build. If you want to increase the weight, you just add another garden cane. You could do it with other material like figerglass rods.
                      >
                      > That all said, archery is different than weightlifting. Accuracy will be better with a lighter weight bow than a heavier bow. Flat line trajectory is not that important. SCA rules do allow limb marks but there are other aiming techniques.
                      >
                      > If you desire to shoot a war bow because that would be really cool to shoot the kind of weight that the medieval archers shot, I am all behind you. I would love to do that myself. I will probably never get there but it sure would be cool.
                      >
                      > But to draw a 100 pound bow just to make myself steadier with a 50 pound bow? Naw, I don't see the logic.
                      >
                      > In Service,
                      > James Wolfden
                      >


                    • Carolus
                      Christopher, Please take this as intended as advice for your well being and not in a negative way. I have been shooting nearly 50 years including National
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jul 14, 2010
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                        Christopher,
                        Please take this as intended as advice for your well being and not in a negative way. I have been shooting nearly 50 years including National competition and am trained as an archaeologist. What you are describing is a recipe for disaster. If you just want to pull a war weight bow on occasion to do it, fine. But there is no reason to worry about being good about it. If you want to be an accurate shot and do anything like accurate experimental archaeology you will need to be shooting the heavy bow 2-3 times a week at around 100 arrows a day. It will be a major undertaking. I know. When shooting seriously I was shooting 100-300 arrows a day 6 days a week to keep my 44#'er in form. If I missed 3 days in a row I was a week in getting back in form. This was with a modern recurve. With a longbow it is worse.

                        Coaches will tell you once you get into the 40#+ range not to worry about strength per se. Worry about reps. More arrows, not more pounds. Work to the draw weight you want to shoot but practice more shots than you will use in competition. At the time my club shoots were one day double 900's - that's 192 arrows without warmup. So I practiced 200 arrows most days with 300 about every third day.

                        What you described below is frankly a guidebook to a destroyed rotator cuff and probably much worse. Take it easy and work your way up gradually. Figure this to be a five year plan. Maybe longer. Build muscle memory until every shot is perfect and doesn't require you to think about it. When you are shooting 6 golds at 60yds with the 50#'er consistently worry about going to something heavier.

                        I really don't want to hear about your next surgery or therapy session. It is not worth it. Don't risk your health.
                        Carolus



                        ren_junkie wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Thanks for the link. Those are awfully nice. And 76"? Awesome. Never held a bow that could look me in the eye before....:D
                        >
                        > Does the wood of the bow make an impact on how the body reacts to drawing high weights?
                        >
                        > I'm not talking about shooting an uber-weighted bow constantly. Just reasonably accurately (and far for doing distance experiments). The big thing is, I don't want to shake all over the place when I go to shoot. Not thinking of using it as my every day bow. And I don't have any place to work on it. Not allowed to do stuff like that at the apartment or my storage unit (I've checked...no woodcraft). And more than that, I've never made a bow before (well, I did, but using a rubber band as my power hardly qualifies), and it would be a loooong time, and a metric crapton of successful bows before I'd try to build such a beast.
                        >
                        > I'm not looking to use a custom bow as strength training. I'm looking to use a custom bow as a shooting implement. Sorta living archaeology and maybe musk ox hunting (kind of a bucket list thing). I'm thinking about having leaf springs made to custom size and weight (since I can't find a cheap used bow on ebay) for the strength. And these would be more powerful than the shooting bow. Like I said, the 50-55# old recurve has made a dramatic impact on my ability to draw the 30# shooter. I'm much more stable. I'd want a 75# for strengthening to a 50# shooter, 100# for 75#, and so on. I was just going to progress in increments of 25#. Altho as an every day, I probably wouldn't be above 65# for target and hunting. But I need to be able to reasonably use warbow weights. Just not all the time. This is a goal, in no small part because I want to be able to do my own experimental archaeology kinda stuff (like shooting at historically accurate armours).
                        >
                        > So, to sum up, no custom warbows for muscles, custom warbows for warbowing. Was thinking of doing progression-y leaf spring things for strength, but now that I know the elastic thingies from 3-Rivers goes up to 100#, won't need that for a while. Don't plan to shoot the war bows everyday. Plan to break it out 6-12 times a year. And building a bow is a non-option for me for at least a year (lease term), and building a war beast is a whole lot of successful bows down the road.
                        >
                        > I didn't really make what I was after quite clear I guess. It happens to me a lot online. Don't get my point across quite as well in the written word as I do verbally. Sorry for not being entirely clear.
                        >
                        > Thanks!
                        > Christopher
                        >
                        > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "James W" <jameswolfden@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >> Hi Christopher,
                        >>
                        >> Like others have said, a custom warbow just for strength training is going to be quite expensive. And to use it just for strength training? Seems to me to be a waste of a good bow.
                        >>
                        >> If it is just strength training, then I would go with an elastic training aid. Don't just toss the idea aside because you used a lightweight elastic.
                        >>
                        >> 3Rivers sells the Bowfit system which comes in 3 sizes, medium (30-50 pounds), heavy (50-80 pounds), and Safari (80-100 pounds). This is available for under $30. You buy the elastic for around $15.
                        >>
                        >> Of course, you could probably rig up something yourself with surgical tubing.
                        >>
                        >> The advantage of going with something like this is you actually have a progression to follow. If I was doing weightlifting and finding myself shaking at 50 pounds, I wouldn't say to myself, "Well, I just have to start lifting 100 pounds to build up my strength." If I wanted to lift 100 pounds, I would work up to 100 pounds in increments. And, yes, it would take some time. On the other hand, if my goal was to lift 50 pounds without shaking, I really don't ever need to lift more than 50 pounds. And I will get there a helluva lot faster than if I stick to 50 and below then trying some shortcut where I try to lift 60 or 70 pounds.
                        >>
                        >> Another option is to go with a bundle or panda bow. The panda bow is so named because bamboo cane is used. You essentially bundle different lengths of bamboo cane together creating a spring leaf type tension when you add the bowstring. It is cheap and easy to build. If you want to increase the weight, you just add another garden cane. You could do it with other material like figerglass rods.
                        >>
                        >> That all said, archery is different than weightlifting. Accuracy will be better with a lighter weight bow than a heavier bow. Flat line trajectory is not that important. SCA rules do allow limb marks but there are other aiming techniques.
                        >>
                        >> If you desire to shoot a war bow because that would be really cool to shoot the kind of weight that the medieval archers shot, I am all behind you. I would love to do that myself. I will probably never get there but it sure would be cool.
                        >>
                        >> But to draw a 100 pound bow just to make myself steadier with a 50 pound bow? Naw, I don't see the logic.
                        >>
                        >> In Service,
                        >> James Wolfden
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                      • Edward deWitt
                        Christopher, you can probably go to Wally World or other such store and find the exercise bands in different strengths.  Put a hook into a stud and hook the
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jul 14, 2010
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                          Christopher, you can probably go to Wally World or other such store and find the exercise bands in different strengths.  Put a hook into a stud and hook the band handle onto it at draw level and have fun.
                          You don't necessarily have to use the heavier weight to get rid of the shakes when shooting lower weights, just repetition will help build the necessary muscle.


                          >
                          >> If it is just strength training, then I would go with an elastic training aid. Don't just toss the idea aside because you used a lightweight elastic.
                          >>
                          >> 3Rivers sells the Bowfit system which comes in 3 sizes, medium (30-50 pounds), heavy (50-80 pounds), and Safari (80-100 pounds). This is available for under $30. You buy the elastic for around $15.
                          >>
                          >> Of course, you could probably rig up something yourself with surgical tubing.
                          >>
                          >> The advantage of going with something like this is you actually have a progression to follow. If I was doing weightlifting and finding myself shaking at 50 pounds, I wouldn't say to myself, "Well, I just have to start lifting 100 pounds to build up my strength." If I wanted to lift 100 pounds, I would work up to 100 pounds in increments. And, yes, it would take some time. On the other hand, if my goal was to lift 50 pounds without shaking, I really don't ever need to lift more than 50 pounds. And I will get there a helluva lot faster than if I stick to 50 and below then trying some shortcut where I try to lift 60 or 70 pounds. 

                          Panda Bow? 

                          James, to make a Panda bow, are the bamboo canes used green or dried?   Are they bundle all in the same direction or reversed to on another?

                          >>
                          >> Another option is to go with a bundle or panda bow. The panda bow is so named because bamboo cane is used. You essentially bundle different lengths of bamboo cane together creating a spring leaf type tension when you add the bowstring. It is cheap and easy to build. If you want to increase the weight, you just add another garden cane. You could do it with other material like figerglass rods.
                          >
                          >> In Service,
                          >> James Wolfden
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          >


                        • ren_junkie
                          Alright, I had an idea fail. No 100# bow for me. I wasn t really planning on shooting it multiple times a week. That IS more strain on my body than I m after.
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jul 15, 2010
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                            Alright, I had an idea fail. No 100# bow for me. I wasn't really planning on shooting it multiple times a week. That IS more strain on my body than I'm after.

                            As far as, ummm, the kinda snarky reply... I thought of that, it's just not viable for a lot of us (including me). Many of us just can't put in 16 hours a week at the range. I wish I could devote 4 hours a day 3-4 days a week to ANY hobby, but I, like many people have family commitments, and need to go and earn money (or at least seek employment to do so). In other words, don't have that much free time for archery. After I take my safety class, I'll be able to use the range. But I doubt I'll be able to get out there more than twice a week, and maybe for an hour, maybe less. So, I do what I can in my spare time, and draw with a bow 20# heavier than my shooter. Why? It's what I am able to do.

                            I have no problem admitting if I had a bad idea (which it seems I did), but seriously, the, ummm, snark was uncalled for.

                            Thanks!
                            Christopher
                          • Carolus
                            No snark intended. As I said, I hoped you would not take offense but take my comments as the advice they were intended to be. You seemed pretty intent on the
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jul 15, 2010
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                              No snark intended. As I said, I hoped you would not take offense but
                              take my comments as the advice they were intended to be. You seemed
                              pretty intent on the idea and the SCA is full of over-enthusiastic folks
                              with grand ideas. Often they put them into execution really well,
                              sometimes with bad results and others more outstanding. That being
                              said, I know the strain of shooting heavy bows and the work it takes
                              just to handle moderate ones. I have seen some serious injuries from
                              overdoing poundages and I really wanted to get the message through (not
                              just for you but others who may bee lurking) that while your goal is
                              admirable, it will take a lot of work and planning and I really don't
                              want to see someone injured.
                              Carolus

                              ren_junkie wrote:
                              > Alright, I had an idea fail. No 100# bow for me. I wasn't really planning on shooting it multiple times a week. That IS more strain on my body than I'm after.
                              >
                              > As far as, ummm, the kinda snarky reply... I thought of that, it's just not viable for a lot of us (including me). Many of us just can't put in 16 hours a week at the range. I wish I could devote 4 hours a day 3-4 days a week to ANY hobby, but I, like many people have family commitments, and need to go and earn money (or at least seek employment to do so). In other words, don't have that much free time for archery. After I take my safety class, I'll be able to use the range. But I doubt I'll be able to get out there more than twice a week, and maybe for an hour, maybe less. So, I do what I can in my spare time, and draw with a bow 20# heavier than my shooter. Why? It's what I am able to do.
                              >
                              > I have no problem admitting if I had a bad idea (which it seems I did), but seriously, the, ummm, snark was uncalled for.
                              >
                              > Thanks!
                              > Christopher
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >
                              >
                              > No virus found in this incoming message.
                              > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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                            • ren_junkie
                              It just sounded condescending. Cause, yeah, I thought of shooting as way to get better. My solution was just muscle building in the absence of being able to
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jul 16, 2010
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                                It just sounded condescending. Cause, yeah, I thought of shooting as way to get better. My solution was just muscle building in the absence of being able to put in that kind of time on a range. Nor did I think it was going to happen in the span of a couple months. It's taken me about 3 months of working out with the 50# just to make the 30# feel good when I draw it.

                                The weight of the bow has nothing to do with the SCA. That was because I've always wanted to do that.

                                I appreciate the advice, it was just the way you put it that grated on me.

                                Thanks!
                                Christopher

                                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > No snark intended. As I said, I hoped you would not take offense but
                                > take my comments as the advice they were intended to be. You seemed
                                > pretty intent on the idea and the SCA is full of over-enthusiastic folks
                                > with grand ideas. Often they put them into execution really well,
                                > sometimes with bad results and others more outstanding. That being
                                > said, I know the strain of shooting heavy bows and the work it takes
                                > just to handle moderate ones. I have seen some serious injuries from
                                > overdoing poundages and I really wanted to get the message through (not
                                > just for you but others who may bee lurking) that while your goal is
                                > admirable, it will take a lot of work and planning and I really don't
                                > want to see someone injured.
                                > Carolus
                                >
                              • RJ Bachner
                                Heya Chris Hey I totally get the desire to shoot a heavy bow. The cool factor is definitely there but as I found out. Pain hurts. What I did while training is
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 2 6:51 PM
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                                  Heya Chris

                                  Hey I totally get the desire to shoot a heavy bow. The cool factor is
                                  definitely there but as I found out. Pain hurts.

                                  What I did while training is use the bow I have, fiberglass works better for
                                  this.

                                  I can't shoot every day because I don't have access to a range more than
                                  once a week. What I do is basically draw the bow slowly to full draw in
                                  front of a mirror, watch your form and make sure every draw is perfect. Hold
                                  it for 10 sec each rep and do it 10 times to begin with, rest then do it
                                  again etc.

                                  You can do this in the living room or hallway or out front on balcony if
                                  local weapons laws allow it.

                                  You burn in muscle memory for the draw and anchor and believe me, 2 weeks of
                                  this morning and night and you won't be shaking at full draw. Doing it every
                                  day over time increasing the reps and number of cycles will do more for you
                                  than honking back a heavy bow a few times and tearing your cuff as I did.

                                  Did I mention that pain hurts?

                                  If you absolutely need that heavy training bow, all you need is a length of
                                  elm or hickory or white oak (these are the cheapest tough bow woods
                                  available almost everywhere) that is tillered to bend evenly at the draw
                                  weight and draw length you need. It does not have to be an actual shooter,
                                  just a flexible beam with a handle and a really thick bowstring. (good luck
                                  getting the damn thing strung though)

                                  Don't forget though

                                  PAIN HURTS!!!!!!!!!

                                  Ragi

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of ren_junkie
                                  Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 12:43 PM
                                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Where to Find...

                                  It just sounded condescending. Cause, yeah, I thought of shooting as way to
                                  get better. My solution was just muscle building in the absence of being
                                  able to put in that kind of time on a range. Nor did I think it was going to
                                  happen in the span of a couple months. It's taken me about 3 months of
                                  working out with the 50# just to make the 30# feel good when I draw it.

                                  The weight of the bow has nothing to do with the SCA. That was because I've
                                  always wanted to do that.

                                  I appreciate the advice, it was just the way you put it that grated on me.

                                  Thanks!
                                  Christopher

                                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > No snark intended. As I said, I hoped you would not take offense but
                                  > take my comments as the advice they were intended to be. You seemed
                                  > pretty intent on the idea and the SCA is full of over-enthusiastic folks
                                  > with grand ideas. Often they put them into execution really well,
                                  > sometimes with bad results and others more outstanding. That being
                                  > said, I know the strain of shooting heavy bows and the work it takes
                                  > just to handle moderate ones. I have seen some serious injuries from
                                  > overdoing poundages and I really wanted to get the message through (not
                                  > just for you but others who may bee lurking) that while your goal is
                                  > admirable, it will take a lot of work and planning and I really don't
                                  > want to see someone injured.
                                  > Carolus
                                  >



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