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Re: [SCA-Archery] waivers

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  • ld.blackmoon
    greetings in ansteorra, it was decided that since target archery and thrown weapons were aiming at non living targets , that waivers were not needed. we do
    Message 1 of 27 , May 8, 2009
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      greetings

      in ansteorra, it was decided that since target archery and thrown weapons were aiming at non living targets , that waivers were not needed.
      we do normaly use sign in sheets , ( though they aren't required ) as this makes it easier to prove level of activity ,how many shooters / throwers were at which practice, or event. it also helps verify that the person was there the day the score was shot , and turned in.

      hope that helps


      Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun
      Arthur
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: dalton_arundel4
      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 5:55 PM
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] waivers





      Good day to the list,
      We are having a discussion in our area about waivers and sign in sheets for archery practice. My question is, do you require either or both for archery practices in your home area? I am curious to know how things are done in difeerent areas/Kingdoms.
      Dalton






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    • loreleiElkins@aol.com
      Greetings Dalton, We have a regular archery practice at my home in North Carolina - Atlantia. I maintain good range safety, do bow inspections, and keep the
      Message 2 of 27 , May 8, 2009
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        Greetings Dalton,

        We have a regular archery practice at my home in North Carolina - Atlantia.
        I maintain good range safety, do bow inspections, and keep the
        goofing-around off the range (fair amount on the sidelines *smile*).We do keep track
        of who was at practice, but we've never felt the need for any kind of
        waiver. I imagine from a liability perspective, that might change if someone
        tripped, fell and tried to sue me for being a klutz.

        Lorelei


        In a message dated 5/8/2009 6:56:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        ice.tiger@... writes:

        Good day to the list,
        We are having a discussion in our area about waivers and sign in sheets
        for archery practice. My question is, do you require either or both for
        archery practices in your home area? I am curious to know how things are done in
        difeerent areas/Kingdoms.
        Dalton






        Lorelei
        **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
        steps!
        (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
        =May5509AvgfooterNO115)


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jameswolfden
        Greetings Dalton, This is covered in the SCA FAQ over at sca.org http://www.sca.org/docs/pdf/scafaq.pdf The gist of it is that there was a past board ruling
        Message 3 of 27 , May 8, 2009
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          Greetings Dalton,

          This is covered in the SCA FAQ over at sca.org http://www.sca.org/docs/pdf/scafaq.pdf

          The gist of it is that there was a past board ruling that waivers are not required at archery or thrown weapon practises because waivers are required only for activities where the target is another person.

          That said, I have used the roster waiver form as a sign-in sheet for special archery practises. I do tell people that is why I am using it otherwise I wouldn't get the blue card holders to sign it. We also do mixed martial arts practises where heavy and rapier are also going on - so then everyone needs to sign a waiver or show their blue card.

          But, most of the time, we don't require them at Lions Gate practises.



          In Service,
          James



          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "dalton_arundel4" <ice.tiger@...> wrote:
          >
          > Good day to the list,
          > We are having a discussion in our area about waivers and sign in sheets for archery practice. My question is, do you require either or both for archery practices in your home area? I am curious to know how things are done in difeerent areas/Kingdoms.
          > Dalton
          >
        • jameswolfden
          I should add that I only do the sign-in sheet for practises where we are charging a drop-in fee. Our normal outdoor practise range requires the archers to join
          Message 4 of 27 , May 8, 2009
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            I should add that I only do the sign-in sheet for practises where we are charging a drop-in fee.

            Our normal outdoor practise range requires the archers to join the Burnaby Archers. We don't charge an additional fee on top of that.

            James
          • James Koch
            Gentlemen & Ladies, ... I have a relevant question. Given the case of someone like Lorelei who holds practices on their own property, if they have
            Message 5 of 27 , May 8, 2009
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              Gentlemen & Ladies,
              >
              I have a relevant question. Given the case of someone like Lorelei
              who holds practices on their own property, if they have participants
              sign a waiver and have a marshal on hand to inspect equipment and run
              the line, are these people covered by the SCA's insurance?
              >
              Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
              >
              >

              >Greetings Dalton,
              >
              >We have a regular archery practice at my home in North Carolina - Atlantia.
              >I maintain good range safety, do bow inspections, and keep the
              >goofing-around off the range (fair amount on the sidelines
              >*smile*).We do keep track
              >of who was at practice, but we've never felt the need for any kind of
              >waiver. I imagine from a liability perspective, that might change if someone
              >tripped, fell and tried to sue me for being a klutz.
              >
              >Lorelei
              >
              >
              >In a message dated 5/8/2009 6:56:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
              ><mailto:ice.tiger%40shaw.ca>ice.tiger@... writes:
              >
              >Good day to the list,
              >We are having a discussion in our area about waivers and sign in sheets
              >for archery practice. My question is, do you require either or both for
              >archery practices in your home area? I am curious to know how things
              >are done in
              >difeerent areas/Kingdoms.
              >Dalton
              >
              >Lorelei
              >**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
              >steps!
              >(<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd>http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
              >=May5509AvgfooterNO115)
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • James of the Lake
              ... Yes. If the practices are advertised in the local newsletter and are open to all. James
              Message 6 of 27 , May 8, 2009
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                On May 8, 2009, at 8:51 PM, James Koch wrote:

                > Gentlemen & Ladies,
                >>
                > I have a relevant question. Given the case of someone like Lorelei
                > who holds practices on their own property, if they have participants
                > sign a waiver and have a marshal on hand to inspect equipment and run
                > the line, are these people covered by the SCA's insurance?
                >>
                >


                Yes. If the practices are advertised in the local newsletter and are
                open to all.

                James
              • ld.blackmoon
                greetings are they still covered if they are holding regularly scheduled , advertised , missile practices without haveing the participants sign waivers ?? (
                Message 7 of 27 , May 8, 2009
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                  greetings

                  are they still covered if they are holding regularly scheduled , advertised , missile practices without haveing the participants sign waivers ?? ( there is an officer and several marshals present )
                  most archers are members, but we get pretty regular additions of newbies as well.
                  Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun
                  Arthur
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: James of the Lake
                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 11:01 PM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] waivers






                  On May 8, 2009, at 8:51 PM, James Koch wrote:

                  > Gentlemen & Ladies,
                  >>
                  > I have a relevant question. Given the case of someone like Lorelei
                  > who holds practices on their own property, if they have participants
                  > sign a waiver and have a marshal on hand to inspect equipment and run
                  > the line, are these people covered by the SCA's insurance?
                  >>
                  >

                  Yes. If the practices are advertised in the local newsletter and are
                  open to all.

                  James





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                • James of the Lake
                  The Society Seneschal s Handbook, p. 10, says non-combat-related practices do not require waivers, but your kingdom seneschal may still require them and is
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 8, 2009
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                    The Society Seneschal's Handbook, p. 10, says non-combat-related
                    practices do not require waivers, but your kingdom seneschal may
                    still require them and is entitled to do so, so see whether your
                    kingdom seneschal has a handbook or some other document addressing
                    this. (Such documents may be found under the seneschal's page linked
                    from your kingdom website.) I don't think Caid requires waivers for
                    target archery practices; at least I don't remember them being
                    required for practiced on our baronial range, which I own.

                    Also see James Wolfden's email posted today in this thread concerning
                    this topic in the SCA FAQ.

                    James

                    On May 8, 2009, at 9:23 PM, ld.blackmoon wrote:

                    > greetings
                    >
                    > are they still covered if they are holding regularly scheduled ,
                    > advertised , missile practices without haveing the participants
                    > sign waivers ?? ( there is an officer and several marshals present )
                    > most archers are members, but we get pretty regular additions of
                    > newbies as well.
                    > Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun
                    > Arthur
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: James of the Lake
                    > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 11:01 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] waivers
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On May 8, 2009, at 8:51 PM, James Koch wrote:
                    >
                    >> Gentlemen & Ladies,
                    >>>
                    >> I have a relevant question. Given the case of someone like Lorelei
                    >> who holds practices on their own property, if they have participants
                    >> sign a waiver and have a marshal on hand to inspect equipment and run
                    >> the line, are these people covered by the SCA's insurance?
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >
                    > Yes. If the practices are advertised in the local newsletter and are
                    > open to all.
                    >
                    > James
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    >
                    >
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                    > 05/08/09 11:43:00
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                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
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                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > --
                    > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
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                    >
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                    >
                  • obsidian@raex.com
                    Greetings ... the Midrealm, there is no requirement to use waivers at a simple practice, and it isn t done, normally. Individual marshals at local practices
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 9, 2009
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                      Greetings

                      ----- Regarding waivers and sign-ins generally: in
                      the Midrealm, there is no requirement to use waivers at a simple practice,
                      and it isn't done, normally. Individual marshals at local practices can,
                      of course, use sign-in sheets, scorecards, waivers, whatever; there is no
                      requirement NOT to use them either; but generally I think folks would
                      think that sort of thing much more officious than need be for a simple
                      practice. Bear in mind that, as far as the overall SCA goes, a seperate
                      waiver for an archery range isn't required even for an event, which leads
                      to part two...

                      ----- Regarding Gladius' question about
                      insurance. If a practice is officially announced at a regular meeting,
                      and/or if it is published in a recognized Scadian publication such as a
                      local newsletter or whatnot, then the practice is regarded as an
                      "event", and insurance applies, I believe. And, other such
                      circumstances, the presence of a warranted marshal is required (if the
                      kingdom in which this takes places has recognized and warranted TAMs - I
                      think all kingdoms do, now, ne ce pas?). This is why, when I was
                      Archer-General, if someone came to me and said "there's a group of us
                      that would like to practice, but there are no marshals in our area, what
                      can we do?" I would advise them simply to go to someone's backyard or
                      a local range and practice to their hearts content - without involving the
                      SCA as such by announcing or advertising it in a formal sense within SCA
                      venues or media. So, the case that Gladius discusses (and by extension,
                      what Lorelei is getting at) is - a sign-in sheet does not create
                      liability. The presence of a warranted marshal does not create liability
                      as such. Requiring the signing of a waiver is a grey area, and could be
                      implied to apply a liability if you wanted to argue it. Standing up in a
                      regular meeting and announcing that you are going to hold a practice on
                      such-and-such a day, or publishing said info in your shire newsletter,
                      does create an official SCA venue, and under that circumstance, all
                      relevant kingdom and SCA Inc. regulations are in force.

                      Nigel

                      On Fri, May 8, 2009 11:51 pm, James Koch wrote:
                      > Gentlemen & Ladies,
                      > >
                      > I have a relevant
                      question. Given the case of someone like Lorelei
                      > who holds
                      practices on their own property, if they have participants
                      > sign
                      a waiver and have a marshal on hand to inspect equipment and run
                      >
                      the line, are these people covered by the SCA's insurance?
                      >
                      >
                      > Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      >>Greetings Dalton,
                      >>
                      >>We have a regular archery practice at my home in
                      North Carolina -
                      >> Atlantia.
                      >>I maintain good
                      range safety, do bow inspections, and keep the
                      >>goofing-around
                      off the range (fair amount on the sidelines
                      >>*smile*).We do
                      keep track
                      >>of who was at practice, but we've never felt the
                      need for any kind of
                      >>waiver. I imagine from a liability
                      perspective, that might change if
                      >> someone
                      >>tripped, fell and tried to sue me for being a klutz.
                      >>
                      >>Lorelei
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>In a message dated 5/8/2009 6:56:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight
                      Time,
                      >><mailto:ice.tiger%40shaw.ca>ice.tiger@...
                      writes:
                      >>
                      >>Good day to the list,
                      >>We
                      are having a discussion in our area about waivers and sign in sheets
                      >>for archery practice. My question is, do you require either or
                      both for
                      >>archery practices in your home area? I am curious to
                      know how things
                      >>are done in
                      >>difeerent
                      areas/Kingdoms.
                      >>Dalton
                      >>
                      >>Lorelei
                      >>**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
                      just 2
                      >> easy
                      >>steps!
                      >>(<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd>http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
                      >>=May5509AvgfooterNO115)
                      >>
                      >>[Non-text
                      portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      removed]
                      >
                      >


                      --
                      "Ausculta,
                      feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non fundamentum pro
                      formula administrationis est."
                      -
                      http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Ronald Klick
                      Greetings to everyone,   I have a further question. In my case, I am not able to forecast ahead to set dates to be published in our local newsletter. I
                      Message 10 of 27 , May 9, 2009
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                        Greetings to everyone,
                         
                        I have a further question. In my case, I am not able to forecast ahead to set dates to be
                        published in our local newsletter. I therefore post an announcement on our local groups
                        email list. I have been told that this constitutes sufficient notice that this can then be considered an "official" practice for which I can submit scores for Royal Rounds and
                        IKAC Rounds. Does this then also mean it is covered as an official practice for SCA
                        insurance? I am a warranted marshal in the East Kingdom, and I have a warranted
                        children's officer present when I run kids IKAC rounds. 
                         
                        Osmond de Berwic

                        --- On Sat, 5/9/09, obsidian@... <obsidian@...> wrote:


                        From: obsidian@... <obsidian@...>
                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] waivers
                        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Saturday, May 9, 2009, 5:29 AM










                        Greetings

                        ----- Regarding waivers and sign-ins generally: in
                        the Midrealm, there is no requirement to use waivers at a simple practice,
                        and it isn't done, normally. Individual marshals at local practices can,
                        of course, use sign-in sheets, scorecards, waivers, whatever; there is no
                        requirement NOT to use them either; but generally I think folks would
                        think that sort of thing much more officious than need be for a simple
                        practice. Bear in mind that, as far as the overall SCA goes, a seperate
                        waiver for an archery range isn't required even for an event, which leads
                        to part two...

                        ----- Regarding Gladius' question about
                        insurance. If a practice is officially announced at a regular meeting,
                        and/or if it is published in a recognized Scadian publication such as a
                        local newsletter or whatnot, then the practice is regarded as an
                        "event", and insurance applies, I believe. And, other such
                        circumstances, the presence of a warranted marshal is required (if the
                        kingdom in which this takes places has recognized and warranted TAMs - I
                        think all kingdoms do, now, ne ce pas?). This is why, when I was
                        Archer-General, if someone came to me and said "there's a group of us
                        that would like to practice, but there are no marshals in our area, what
                        can we do?" I would advise them simply to go to someone's backyard or
                        a local range and practice to their hearts content - without involving the
                        SCA as such by announcing or advertising it in a formal sense within SCA
                        venues or media. So, the case that Gladius discusses (and by extension,
                        what Lorelei is getting at) is - a sign-in sheet does not create
                        liability. The presence of a warranted marshal does not create liability
                        as such. Requiring the signing of a waiver is a grey area, and could be
                        implied to apply a liability if you wanted to argue it. Standing up in a
                        regular meeting and announcing that you are going to hold a practice on
                        such-and-such a day, or publishing said info in your shire newsletter,
                        does create an official SCA venue, and under that circumstance, all
                        relevant kingdom and SCA Inc. regulations are in force.

                        Nigel

                        On Fri, May 8, 2009 11:51 pm, James Koch wrote:
                        > Gentlemen & Ladies,
                        > >
                        > I have a relevant
                        question. Given the case of someone like Lorelei
                        > who holds
                        practices on their own property, if they have participants
                        > sign
                        a waiver and have a marshal on hand to inspect equipment and run
                        >
                        the line, are these people covered by the SCA's insurance?
                        >
                        >
                        > Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        >>Greetings Dalton,
                        >>
                        >>We have a regular archery practice at my home in
                        North Carolina -
                        >> Atlantia.
                        >>I maintain good
                        range safety, do bow inspections, and keep the
                        >>goofing-around
                        off the range (fair amount on the sidelines
                        >>*smile*).We do
                        keep track
                        >>of who was at practice, but we've never felt the
                        need for any kind of
                        >>waiver. I imagine from a liability
                        perspective, that might change if
                        >> someone
                        >>tripped, fell and tried to sue me for being a klutz.
                        >>
                        >>Lorelei
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>In a message dated 5/8/2009 6:56:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight
                        Time,
                        >><mailto:ice. tiger%40shaw. ca>ice.tiger@shaw. ca
                        writes:
                        >>
                        >>Good day to the list,
                        >>We
                        are having a discussion in our area about waivers and sign in sheets
                        >>for archery practice. My question is, do you require either or
                        both for
                        >>archery practices in your home area? I am curious to
                        know how things
                        >>are done in
                        >>difeerent
                        areas/Kingdoms.
                        >>Dalton
                        >>
                        >>Lorelei
                        >>********** ****A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
                        just 2
                        >> easy
                        >>steps!
                        >>(<http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x122132 2931x1201367171/ aol?redir= http://www. freecreditreport .com/pm/default. aspx?sc=668072& hmpgID=115& bcd>http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x122132 2931x1201367171/ aol?redir= http://www. freecreditreport .com/pm/default. aspx?sc=668072& hmpgID=115& bcd
                        >>=May5509Avgfooter NO115)
                        >>
                        >>[Non-text
                        portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        removed]
                        >
                        >

                        --
                        "Ausculta,
                        feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non fundamentum pro
                        formula administrationis est."
                        -
                        http://web.raex. com/~obsidian/ regindex. html

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • obsidian@raex.com
                        Greetings Correct. Publication on a recognized Email list, while it doesn t have quite the legal force of printed document, is nevertheless sufficient to be a
                        Message 11 of 27 , May 9, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Greetings

                          Correct. Publication on a recognized Email list,
                          while it doesn't have quite the legal force of printed document, is
                          nevertheless sufficient to be a Official Notification, and therefore
                          invokes all current and relevant regulations.

                          Nigel

                          On Sat, May 9, 2009 10:59 am, Ronald Klick wrote:
                          > Greetings to
                          everyone,
                          >  
                          > I have a further question. In my
                          case, I am not able to forecast ahead to
                          > set dates to be
                          > published in our local newsletter. I therefore post an announcement
                          on our
                          > local groups
                          > email list. I have been told that
                          this constitutes sufficient notice that
                          > this can then be
                          considered an "official" practice for which I can submit
                          > scores for Royal Rounds and
                          > IKAC Rounds. Does this then
                          also mean it is covered as an official
                          > practice for SCA
                          > insurance? I am a warranted marshal in the East Kingdom, and I have
                          a
                          > warranted
                          > children's officer present when I run kids
                          IKAC rounds. 
                          >  
                          > Osmond de Berwic
                          >

                          > --- On Sat, 5/9/09, obsidian@... <obsidian@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          From: obsidian@...
                          <obsidian@...>
                          > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] waivers
                          > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Saturday, May 9,
                          2009, 5:29 AM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Greetings
                          >
                          > ----- Regarding waivers and sign-ins generally: in
                          > the Midrealm, there is no requirement to use waivers at a simple
                          practice,
                          > and it isn't done, normally. Individual marshals at
                          local practices can,
                          > of course, use sign-in sheets, scorecards,
                          waivers, whatever; there is no
                          > requirement NOT to use them
                          either; but generally I think folks would
                          > think that sort of
                          thing much more officious than need be for a simple
                          > practice.
                          Bear in mind that, as far as the overall SCA goes, a seperate
                          >
                          waiver for an archery range isn't required even for an event, which
                          leads
                          > to part two...
                          >
                          > ----- Regarding
                          Gladius' question about
                          > insurance. If a practice is officially
                          announced at a regular meeting,
                          > and/or if it is published in a
                          recognized Scadian publication such as a
                          > local newsletter or
                          whatnot, then the practice is regarded as an
                          > "event",
                          and insurance applies, I believe. And, other such
                          > circumstances,
                          the presence of a warranted marshal is required (if the
                          > kingdom
                          in which this takes places has recognized and warranted TAMs - I
                          >
                          think all kingdoms do, now, ne ce pas?). This is why, when I was
                          >
                          Archer-General, if someone came to me and said "there's a group of
                          us
                          > that would like to practice, but there are no marshals in our
                          area, what
                          > can we do?" I would advise them simply to go to
                          someone's backyard or
                          > a local range and practice to their hearts
                          content - without involving the
                          > SCA as such by announcing or
                          advertising it in a formal sense within SCA
                          > venues or media. So,
                          the case that Gladius discusses (and by extension,
                          > what Lorelei
                          is getting at) is - a sign-in sheet does not create
                          > liability.
                          The presence of a warranted marshal does not create liability
                          > as
                          such. Requiring the signing of a waiver is a grey area, and could be
                          > implied to apply a liability if you wanted to argue it. Standing up
                          in a
                          > regular meeting and announcing that you are going to hold a
                          practice on
                          > such-and-such a day, or publishing said info in your
                          shire newsletter,
                          > does create an official SCA venue, and under
                          that circumstance, all
                          > relevant kingdom and SCA Inc. regulations
                          are in force.
                          >
                          > Nigel
                          >
                          > On Fri, May
                          8, 2009 11:51 pm, James Koch wrote:
                          >> Gentlemen &
                          Ladies,
                          >> >
                          >> I have a relevant
                          >
                          question. Given the case of someone like Lorelei
                          >> who
                          holds
                          > practices on their own property, if they have
                          participants
                          >> sign
                          > a waiver and have a marshal on
                          hand to inspect equipment and run
                          >>
                          > the line, are
                          these people covered by the SCA's insurance?
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> >
                          >>
                          >>>Greetings Dalton,
                          >>>
                          >>>We have
                          a regular archery practice at my home in
                          > North Carolina -
                          >>> Atlantia.
                          >>>I maintain good
                          > range
                          safety, do bow inspections, and keep the
                          >>>goofing-around
                          > off the range (fair amount on the
                          sidelines
                          >>>*smile*).We do
                          > keep track
                          >>>of who was at practice, but we've never felt the
                          >
                          need for any kind of
                          >>>waiver. I imagine from a
                          liability
                          > perspective, that might change if
                          >>>
                          someone
                          >>>tripped, fell and tried to sue me for being a
                          klutz.
                          >>>
                          >>>Lorelei
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>In a message dated 5/8/2009 6:56:19 P.M.
                          Eastern Daylight
                          > Time,
                          >>><mailto:ice.
                          tiger%40shaw. ca>ice.tiger@shaw. ca
                          > writes:
                          >>>
                          >>>Good day to the list,
                          >>>We
                          > are having a discussion in our area about
                          waivers and sign in sheets
                          >>>for archery practice. My
                          question is, do you require either or
                          > both for
                          >>>archery practices in your home area? I am curious to
                          > know how things
                          >>>are done in
                          >>>difeerent
                          > areas/Kingdoms.
                          >>>Dalton
                          >>>
                          >>>Lorelei
                          >>>********** ****A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See
                          yours in
                          > just 2
                          >>> easy
                          >>>steps!
                          >>>(<http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/
                          100126575x122132 2931x1201367171/
                          >>> aol?redir= http://www.
                          freecreditreport .com/pm/default. aspx?sc=668072&
                          >>>
                          hmpgID=115& bcd>http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x122132
                          >>> 2931x1201367171/ aol?redir= http://www. freecreditreport
                          >>> .com/pm/default. aspx?sc=668072& hmpgID=115& bcd
                          >>>=May5509Avgfooter NO115)
                          >>>
                          >>>[Non-text
                          > portions of this message have been
                          removed]
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          > --
                          > "Ausculta,
                          > feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii
                          dispensans non fundamentum pro
                          > formula administrationis
                          est."
                          > -
                          > http://web.raex. com/~obsidian/ regindex.
                          html
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >

                          >


                          --
                          "Ausculta, feminae novae in
                          lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non fundamentum pro formula
                          administrationis est."
                          -
                          http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • jameswolfden
                          I would recommend that any branch marshall read the Society Seneschal Handbook even if you are not intending on ever being a seneschal. It will give great
                          Message 12 of 27 , May 9, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I would recommend that any branch marshall read the Society Seneschal Handbook even if you are not intending on ever being a seneschal. It will give great insight into how our game is played behind the scenes.

                            Your group Seneschal must know that the event is occurring, it must be publicized to the group (this can be electronically), and you must conform to Society/Kingdom laws.

                            If you can, plan a regular scheduled practise with the option that it could be cancelled.

                            In Service,
                            James



                            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Klick <osmond_de_berwic@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Greetings to everyone,
                            >  
                            > I have a further question. In my case, I am not able to forecast ahead to set dates to be
                            > published in our local newsletter. I therefore post an announcement on our local groups
                            > email list. I have been told that this constitutes sufficient notice that this can then be considered an "official" practice for which I can submit scores for Royal Rounds and
                            > IKAC Rounds. Does this then also mean it is covered as an official practice for SCA
                            > insurance? I am a warranted marshal in the East Kingdom, and I have a warranted
                            > children's officer present when I run kids IKAC rounds. 
                            >  
                            > Osmond de Berwic
                            >
                            > --- On Sat, 5/9/09, obsidian@... <obsidian@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: obsidian@... <obsidian@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] waivers
                            > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Saturday, May 9, 2009, 5:29 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Greetings
                            >
                            > ----- Regarding waivers and sign-ins generally: in
                            > the Midrealm, there is no requirement to use waivers at a simple practice,
                            > and it isn't done, normally. Individual marshals at local practices can,
                            > of course, use sign-in sheets, scorecards, waivers, whatever; there is no
                            > requirement NOT to use them either; but generally I think folks would
                            > think that sort of thing much more officious than need be for a simple
                            > practice. Bear in mind that, as far as the overall SCA goes, a seperate
                            > waiver for an archery range isn't required even for an event, which leads
                            > to part two...
                            >
                            > ----- Regarding Gladius' question about
                            > insurance. If a practice is officially announced at a regular meeting,
                            > and/or if it is published in a recognized Scadian publication such as a
                            > local newsletter or whatnot, then the practice is regarded as an
                            > "event", and insurance applies, I believe. And, other such
                            > circumstances, the presence of a warranted marshal is required (if the
                            > kingdom in which this takes places has recognized and warranted TAMs - I
                            > think all kingdoms do, now, ne ce pas?). This is why, when I was
                            > Archer-General, if someone came to me and said "there's a group of us
                            > that would like to practice, but there are no marshals in our area, what
                            > can we do?" I would advise them simply to go to someone's backyard or
                            > a local range and practice to their hearts content - without involving the
                            > SCA as such by announcing or advertising it in a formal sense within SCA
                            > venues or media. So, the case that Gladius discusses (and by extension,
                            > what Lorelei is getting at) is - a sign-in sheet does not create
                            > liability. The presence of a warranted marshal does not create liability
                            > as such. Requiring the signing of a waiver is a grey area, and could be
                            > implied to apply a liability if you wanted to argue it. Standing up in a
                            > regular meeting and announcing that you are going to hold a practice on
                            > such-and-such a day, or publishing said info in your shire newsletter,
                            > does create an official SCA venue, and under that circumstance, all
                            > relevant kingdom and SCA Inc. regulations are in force.
                            >
                            > Nigel
                            >
                            > On Fri, May 8, 2009 11:51 pm, James Koch wrote:
                            > > Gentlemen & Ladies,
                            > > >
                            > > I have a relevant
                            > question. Given the case of someone like Lorelei
                            > > who holds
                            > practices on their own property, if they have participants
                            > > sign
                            > a waiver and have a marshal on hand to inspect equipment and run
                            > >
                            > the line, are these people covered by the SCA's insurance?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >>Greetings Dalton,
                            > >>
                            > >>We have a regular archery practice at my home in
                            > North Carolina -
                            > >> Atlantia.
                            > >>I maintain good
                            > range safety, do bow inspections, and keep the
                            > >>goofing-around
                            > off the range (fair amount on the sidelines
                            > >>*smile*).We do
                            > keep track
                            > >>of who was at practice, but we've never felt the
                            > need for any kind of
                            > >>waiver. I imagine from a liability
                            > perspective, that might change if
                            > >> someone
                            > >>tripped, fell and tried to sue me for being a klutz.
                            > >>
                            > >>Lorelei
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>In a message dated 5/8/2009 6:56:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight
                            > Time,
                            > >><mailto:ice. tiger%40shaw. ca>ice.tiger@shaw. ca
                            > writes:
                            > >>
                            > >>Good day to the list,
                            > >>We
                            > are having a discussion in our area about waivers and sign in sheets
                            > >>for archery practice. My question is, do you require either or
                            > both for
                            > >>archery practices in your home area? I am curious to
                            > know how things
                            > >>are done in
                            > >>difeerent
                            > areas/Kingdoms.
                            > >>Dalton
                            > >>
                            > >>Lorelei
                            > >>********** ****A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
                            > just 2
                            > >> easy
                            > >>steps!
                            > >>(<http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x122132 2931x1201367171/ aol?redir= http://www. freecreditreport .com/pm/default. aspx?sc=668072& hmpgID=115& bcd>http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x122132 2931x1201367171/ aol?redir= http://www. freecreditreport .com/pm/default. aspx?sc=668072& hmpgID=115& bcd
                            > >>=May5509Avgfooter NO115)
                            > >>
                            > >>[Non-text
                            > portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > --
                            > "Ausculta,
                            > feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non fundamentum pro
                            > formula administrationis est."
                            > -
                            > http://web.raex. com/~obsidian/ regindex. html
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Carolus
                            Two items: 1) An event need not be published to be covered by insurance - all SCA sponsored activities are covered. See the Seneschal s Handbook, pg 22 et al.
                            Message 13 of 27 , May 9, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Two items:
                              1) An event need not be published to be covered by insurance - all
                              SCA sponsored activities are covered. See the Seneschal's Handbook,
                              pg 22 et al. This is a change from older rules
                              2) The signing of a waiver cannot be used to imply liability. This
                              is an urban myth. Waivers will not prevent lawsuits, they only make
                              them easier to win. The waiver is similar to the informed consent
                              form one signs at a doctor's office - is says you know the risks and
                              accept them willingly. The only difference in having a waiver or not
                              is that if no waiver is required it can be argued that the event
                              organizer(s) knew of the danger and concealed it thus making it
                              harder to win a suit.

                              That said, when I ran archery for Caid I asked for corporate opinion
                              and was told no waivers needed at archery practice.

                              Carolus
                              former Seneschal who reads the current handbooks


                              At 02:29 AM 5/9/2009, you wrote:


                              >Greetings
                              >
                              >----- Regarding waivers and sign-ins generally: in
                              >the Midrealm, there is no requirement to use waivers at a simple practice,
                              >and it isn't done, normally. Individual marshals at local practices can,
                              >of course, use sign-in sheets, scorecards, waivers, whatever; there is no
                              >requirement NOT to use them either; but generally I think folks would
                              >think that sort of thing much more officious than need be for a simple
                              >practice. Bear in mind that, as far as the overall SCA goes, a seperate
                              >waiver for an archery range isn't required even for an event, which leads
                              >to part two...
                              >
                              >----- Regarding Gladius' question about
                              >insurance. If a practice is officially announced at a regular meeting,
                              >and/or if it is published in a recognized Scadian publication such as a
                              >local newsletter or whatnot, then the practice is regarded as an
                              >"event", and insurance applies, I believe. And, other such
                              >circumstances, the presence of a warranted marshal is required (if the
                              >kingdom in which this takes places has recognized and warranted TAMs - I
                              >think all kingdoms do, now, ne ce pas?). This is why, when I was
                              >Archer-General, if someone came to me and said "there's a group of us
                              >that would like to practice, but there are no marshals in our area, what
                              >can we do?" I would advise them simply to go to someone's backyard or
                              >a local range and practice to their hearts content - without involving the
                              >SCA as such by announcing or advertising it in a formal sense within SCA
                              >venues or media. So, the case that Gladius discusses (and by extension,
                              >what Lorelei is getting at) is - a sign-in sheet does not create
                              >liability. The presence of a warranted marshal does not create liability
                              >as such. Requiring the signing of a waiver is a grey area, and could be
                              >implied to apply a liability if you wanted to argue it. Standing up in a
                              >regular meeting and announcing that you are going to hold a practice on
                              >such-and-such a day, or publishing said info in your shire newsletter,
                              >does create an official SCA venue, and under that circumstance, all
                              >relevant kingdom and SCA Inc. regulations are in force.
                              >
                              >Nigel
                              >
                              >On Fri, May 8, 2009 11:51 pm, James Koch wrote:
                              > > Gentlemen & Ladies,
                              > > >
                              > > I have a relevant
                              >question. Given the case of someone like Lorelei
                              > > who holds
                              >practices on their own property, if they have participants
                              > > sign
                              >a waiver and have a marshal on hand to inspect equipment and run
                              > >
                              >the line, are these people covered by the SCA's insurance?
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >>Greetings Dalton,
                              > >>
                              > >>We have a regular archery practice at my home in
                              >North Carolina -
                              > >> Atlantia.
                              > >>I maintain good
                              >range safety, do bow inspections, and keep the
                              > >>goofing-around
                              >off the range (fair amount on the sidelines
                              > >>*smile*).We do
                              >keep track
                              > >>of who was at practice, but we've never felt the
                              >need for any kind of
                              > >>waiver. I imagine from a liability
                              >perspective, that might change if
                              > >> someone
                              > >>tripped, fell and tried to sue me for being a klutz.
                              > >>
                              > >>Lorelei
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>In a message dated 5/8/2009 6:56:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight
                              >Time,
                              > >><mailto:ice.tiger%40shaw.ca>ice.tiger@...
                              >writes:
                              > >>
                              > >>Good day to the list,
                              > >>We
                              >are having a discussion in our area about waivers and sign in sheets
                              > >>for archery practice. My question is, do you require either or
                              >both for
                              > >>archery practices in your home area? I am curious to
                              >know how things
                              > >>are done in
                              > >>difeerent
                              >areas/Kingdoms.
                              > >>Dalton
                              > >>
                              > >>Lorelei
                              > >>**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
                              >just 2
                              > >> easy
                              > >>steps!
                              > >>(<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/ao
                              > l?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd>http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
                              > >>=May5509AvgfooterNO115)
                              > >>
                              > >>[Non-text
                              >portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              >removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >--
                              >"Ausculta,
                              >feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non fundamentum pro
                              >formula administrationis est."
                              >-
                              >http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html
                              >
                              >
                              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >------------------------------------
                              >
                              >--
                              >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >No virus found in this incoming message.
                              >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                              >Version: 8.5.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.22/2105 - Release Date:
                              >05/08/09 11:43:00
                            • James of the Lake
                              With regard to (1), the Caid Seneschal s Handbook, 8th ed., p. 20, states, however that a practice must be sponsored by an SCA branch, registered with the
                              Message 14 of 27 , May 9, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                With regard to (1), the Caid Seneschal's Handbook, 8th ed., p. 20,
                                states, however that a practice must be sponsored by an SCA branch,
                                registered with the group seneschal and publicized to at least to the
                                members of that branch and open to any of them to be insured.
                                Publication in a branch newsletter is one way of meeting the
                                "publicized" and invitational requirements and implies branch
                                sponsorship and seneschal approval, especially for regular practices
                                over an indefinite periods.

                                James

                                On May 9, 2009, at 9:15 AM, Carolus wrote:

                                > Two items:
                                > 1) An event need not be published to be covered by insurance - all
                                > SCA sponsored activities are covered. See the Seneschal's Handbook,
                                > pg 22 et al. This is a change from older rules
                                > 2) The signing of a waiver cannot be used to imply liability. This
                                > is an urban myth. Waivers will not prevent lawsuits, they only make
                                > them easier to win. The waiver is similar to the informed consent
                                > form one signs at a doctor's office - is says you know the risks and
                                > accept them willingly. The only difference in having a waiver or not
                                > is that if no waiver is required it can be argued that the event
                                > organizer(s) knew of the danger and concealed it thus making it
                                > harder to win a suit.
                                >
                                > That said, when I ran archery for Caid I asked for corporate opinion
                                > and was told no waivers needed at archery practice.
                                >
                                > Carolus
                                > former Seneschal who reads the current handbooks
                                >
                                >
                                > At 02:29 AM 5/9/2009, you wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >> Greetings
                                >>
                                >> ----- Regarding waivers and sign-ins generally: in
                                >> the Midrealm, there is no requirement to use waivers at a simple
                                >> practice,
                                >> and it isn't done, normally. Individual marshals at local
                                >> practices can,
                                >> of course, use sign-in sheets, scorecards, waivers, whatever;
                                >> there is no
                                >> requirement NOT to use them either; but generally I think folks would
                                >> think that sort of thing much more officious than need be for a
                                >> simple
                                >> practice. Bear in mind that, as far as the overall SCA goes, a
                                >> seperate
                                >> waiver for an archery range isn't required even for an event,
                                >> which leads
                                >> to part two...
                                >>
                                >> ----- Regarding Gladius' question about
                                >> insurance. If a practice is officially announced at a regular
                                >> meeting,
                                >> and/or if it is published in a recognized Scadian publication such
                                >> as a
                                >> local newsletter or whatnot, then the practice is regarded as an
                                >> "event", and insurance applies, I believe. And, other such
                                >> circumstances, the presence of a warranted marshal is required (if
                                >> the
                                >> kingdom in which this takes places has recognized and warranted
                                >> TAMs - I
                                >> think all kingdoms do, now, ne ce pas?). This is why, when I was
                                >> Archer-General, if someone came to me and said "there's a group of us
                                >> that would like to practice, but there are no marshals in our
                                >> area, what
                                >> can we do?" I would advise them simply to go to someone's backyard or
                                >> a local range and practice to their hearts content - without
                                >> involving the
                                >> SCA as such by announcing or advertising it in a formal sense
                                >> within SCA
                                >> venues or media. So, the case that Gladius discusses (and by
                                >> extension,
                                >> what Lorelei is getting at) is - a sign-in sheet does not create
                                >> liability. The presence of a warranted marshal does not create
                                >> liability
                                >> as such. Requiring the signing of a waiver is a grey area, and
                                >> could be
                                >> implied to apply a liability if you wanted to argue it. Standing
                                >> up in a
                                >> regular meeting and announcing that you are going to hold a
                                >> practice on
                                >> such-and-such a day, or publishing said info in your shire
                                >> newsletter,
                                >> does create an official SCA venue, and under that circumstance, all
                                >> relevant kingdom and SCA Inc. regulations are in force.
                                >>
                                >> Nigel
                                >>
                                >> On Fri, May 8, 2009 11:51 pm, James Koch wrote:
                                >>> Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                >>>>
                                >>> I have a relevant
                                >> question. Given the case of someone like Lorelei
                                >>> who holds
                                >> practices on their own property, if they have participants
                                >>> sign
                                >> a waiver and have a marshal on hand to inspect equipment and run
                                >>>
                                >> the line, are these people covered by the SCA's insurance?
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>
                                >>>> Greetings Dalton,
                                >>>>
                                >>>> We have a regular archery practice at my home in
                                >> North Carolina -
                                >>>> Atlantia.
                                >>>> I maintain good
                                >> range safety, do bow inspections, and keep the
                                >>>> goofing-around
                                >> off the range (fair amount on the sidelines
                                >>>> *smile*).We do
                                >> keep track
                                >>>> of who was at practice, but we've never felt the
                                >> need for any kind of
                                >>>> waiver. I imagine from a liability
                                >> perspective, that might change if
                                >>>> someone
                                >>>> tripped, fell and tried to sue me for being a klutz.
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Lorelei
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>> In a message dated 5/8/2009 6:56:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight
                                >> Time,
                                >>>> <mailto:ice.tiger%40shaw.ca>ice.tiger@...
                                >> writes:
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Good day to the list,
                                >>>> We
                                >> are having a discussion in our area about waivers and sign in sheets
                                >>>> for archery practice. My question is, do you require either or
                                >> both for
                                >>>> archery practices in your home area? I am curious to
                                >> know how things
                                >>>> are done in
                                >>>> difeerent
                                >> areas/Kingdoms.
                                >>>> Dalton
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Lorelei
                                >>>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
                                >> just 2
                                >>>> easy
                                >>>> steps!
                                >>>> (<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/ao
                                >> l?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?
                                >> sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd>http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/
                                >> 100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://
                                >> www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
                                >>>> =May5509AvgfooterNO115)
                                >>>>
                                >>>> [Non-text
                                >> portions of this message have been removed]
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                >> removed]
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> --
                                >> "Ausculta,
                                >> feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non
                                >> fundamentum pro
                                >> formula administrationis est."
                                >> -
                                >> http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> ------------------------------------
                                >>
                                >> --
                                >> [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> No virus found in this incoming message.
                                >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                >> Version: 8.5.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.22/2105 - Release Date:
                                >> 05/08/09 11:43:00
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                              • Carolus
                                Note: this is specific to Caid and not to the Society as a whole. As James points out, check your local rules - they may have additional requirements. I will
                                Message 15 of 27 , May 9, 2009
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                                  Note: this is specific to Caid and not to the Society as a whole. As
                                  James points out, check your local rules - they may have additional
                                  requirements.
                                  I will note, however that insurance requirements are set at society
                                  level, not Kingdom, thus while your kingdom may require specific
                                  conditions, they may not really matter in the event of a claim.

                                  Carolus

                                  At 10:47 AM 5/9/2009, you wrote:
                                  >With regard to (1), the Caid Seneschal's Handbook, 8th ed., p. 20,
                                  >states, however that a practice must be sponsored by an SCA branch,
                                  >registered with the group seneschal and publicized to at least to the
                                  >members of that branch and open to any of them to be insured.
                                  >Publication in a branch newsletter is one way of meeting the
                                  >"publicized" and invitational requirements and implies branch
                                  >sponsorship and seneschal approval, especially for regular practices
                                  >over an indefinite periods.
                                  >
                                  > James
                                  >
                                  >On May 9, 2009, at 9:15 AM, Carolus wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Two items:
                                  > > 1) An event need not be published to be covered by insurance - all
                                  > > SCA sponsored activities are covered. See the Seneschal's Handbook,
                                  > > pg 22 et al. This is a change from older rules
                                  > > 2) The signing of a waiver cannot be used to imply liability. This
                                  > > is an urban myth. Waivers will not prevent lawsuits, they only make
                                  > > them easier to win. The waiver is similar to the informed consent
                                  > > form one signs at a doctor's office - is says you know the risks and
                                  > > accept them willingly. The only difference in having a waiver or not
                                  > > is that if no waiver is required it can be argued that the event
                                  > > organizer(s) knew of the danger and concealed it thus making it
                                  > > harder to win a suit.
                                  > >
                                  > > That said, when I ran archery for Caid I asked for corporate opinion
                                  > > and was told no waivers needed at archery practice.
                                  > >
                                  > > Carolus
                                  > > former Seneschal who reads the current handbooks
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > At 02:29 AM 5/9/2009, you wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >> Greetings
                                  > >>
                                  > >> ----- Regarding waivers and sign-ins generally: in
                                  > >> the Midrealm, there is no requirement to use waivers at a simple
                                  > >> practice,
                                  > >> and it isn't done, normally. Individual marshals at local
                                  > >> practices can,
                                  > >> of course, use sign-in sheets, scorecards, waivers, whatever;
                                  > >> there is no
                                  > >> requirement NOT to use them either; but generally I think folks would
                                  > >> think that sort of thing much more officious than need be for a
                                  > >> simple
                                  > >> practice. Bear in mind that, as far as the overall SCA goes, a
                                  > >> seperate
                                  > >> waiver for an archery range isn't required even for an event,
                                  > >> which leads
                                  > >> to part two...
                                  > >>
                                  > >> ----- Regarding Gladius' question about
                                  > >> insurance. If a practice is officially announced at a regular
                                  > >> meeting,
                                  > >> and/or if it is published in a recognized Scadian publication such
                                  > >> as a
                                  > >> local newsletter or whatnot, then the practice is regarded as an
                                  > >> "event", and insurance applies, I believe. And, other such
                                  > >> circumstances, the presence of a warranted marshal is required (if
                                  > >> the
                                  > >> kingdom in which this takes places has recognized and warranted
                                  > >> TAMs - I
                                  > >> think all kingdoms do, now, ne ce pas?). This is why, when I was
                                  > >> Archer-General, if someone came to me and said "there's a group of us
                                  > >> that would like to practice, but there are no marshals in our
                                  > >> area, what
                                  > >> can we do?" I would advise them simply to go to someone's backyard or
                                  > >> a local range and practice to their hearts content - without
                                  > >> involving the
                                  > >> SCA as such by announcing or advertising it in a formal sense
                                  > >> within SCA
                                  > >> venues or media. So, the case that Gladius discusses (and by
                                  > >> extension,
                                  > >> what Lorelei is getting at) is - a sign-in sheet does not create
                                  > >> liability. The presence of a warranted marshal does not create
                                  > >> liability
                                  > >> as such. Requiring the signing of a waiver is a grey area, and
                                  > >> could be
                                  > >> implied to apply a liability if you wanted to argue it. Standing
                                  > >> up in a
                                  > >> regular meeting and announcing that you are going to hold a
                                  > >> practice on
                                  > >> such-and-such a day, or publishing said info in your shire
                                  > >> newsletter,
                                  > >> does create an official SCA venue, and under that circumstance, all
                                  > >> relevant kingdom and SCA Inc. regulations are in force.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Nigel
                                  > >>
                                  > >> On Fri, May 8, 2009 11:51 pm, James Koch wrote:
                                  > >>> Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>> I have a relevant
                                  > >> question. Given the case of someone like Lorelei
                                  > >>> who holds
                                  > >> practices on their own property, if they have participants
                                  > >>> sign
                                  > >> a waiver and have a marshal on hand to inspect equipment and run
                                  > >>>
                                  > >> the line, are these people covered by the SCA's insurance?
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>> Greetings Dalton,
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> We have a regular archery practice at my home in
                                  > >> North Carolina -
                                  > >>>> Atlantia.
                                  > >>>> I maintain good
                                  > >> range safety, do bow inspections, and keep the
                                  > >>>> goofing-around
                                  > >> off the range (fair amount on the sidelines
                                  > >>>> *smile*).We do
                                  > >> keep track
                                  > >>>> of who was at practice, but we've never felt the
                                  > >> need for any kind of
                                  > >>>> waiver. I imagine from a liability
                                  > >> perspective, that might change if
                                  > >>>> someone
                                  > >>>> tripped, fell and tried to sue me for being a klutz.
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> Lorelei
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> In a message dated 5/8/2009 6:56:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight
                                  > >> Time,
                                  > >>>> <mailto:ice.tiger%40shaw.ca>ice.tiger@...
                                  > >> writes:
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> Good day to the list,
                                  > >>>> We
                                  > >> are having a discussion in our area about waivers and sign in sheets
                                  > >>>> for archery practice. My question is, do you require either or
                                  > >> both for
                                  > >>>> archery practices in your home area? I am curious to
                                  > >> know how things
                                  > >>>> are done in
                                  > >>>> difeerent
                                  > >> areas/Kingdoms.
                                  > >>>> Dalton
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> Lorelei
                                  > >>>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
                                  > >> just 2
                                  > >>>> easy
                                  > >>>> steps!
                                  > >>>>
                                  > (<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/ao>>
                                  > l?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?
                                  > >> sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd>http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/
                                  > >> 100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://
                                  > >> www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
                                  > >>>> =May5509AvgfooterNO115)
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> [Non-text
                                  > >> portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  > >> removed]
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> --
                                  > >> "Ausculta,
                                  > >> feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non
                                  > >> fundamentum pro
                                  > >> formula administrationis est."
                                  > >> -
                                  > >> http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> ------------------------------------
                                  > >>
                                  > >> --
                                  > >> [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                  > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> No virus found in this incoming message.
                                  > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                  > >> Version: 8.5.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.22/2105 - Release Date:
                                  > >> 05/08/09 11:43:00
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > --
                                  > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  >--
                                  >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                  >Version: 8.5.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.22/2105 - Release Date:
                                  >05/08/09 11:43:00
                                • James of the Lake
                                  ... Not when the Society seneschal specifically delegates relevant rule- making authority to the kingdom seneschals and that said seneschals (as well as local
                                  Message 16 of 27 , May 9, 2009
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                                    > On May 9, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Carolus wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> I will note, however that insurance requirements are set at society
                                    >> level, not Kingdom, thus while your kingdom may require specific
                                    >> conditions, they may not really matter in the event of a claim.
                                    >>


                                    Not when the Society seneschal specifically delegates relevant rule-
                                    making authority to the kingdom seneschals and that said seneschals
                                    (as well as local branch seneschals) are specifically legal agents of
                                    the Society.

                                    However, Carolus and I have indeed been referring to our direct
                                    experiences in Caid over a number of years. I find it easier to cite
                                    our kingdom's seneschal's handbook and relate it to my experience.
                                    Probably since I am not a lawyer, I sometimes find the Society
                                    handbook somewhat vague on specifics.

                                    James
                                  • Carolus
                                    Actually, in this instance authority cannot be delegated. Insurance policies are governed by contract law and exist between the issuer and the policyholder
                                    Message 17 of 27 , May 9, 2009
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                                      Actually, in this instance authority cannot be delegated. Insurance
                                      policies are governed by contract law and exist between the issuer
                                      and the policyholder (in this case the SCA,Inc.) What the Society
                                      Seneschal can delegate is the authority to set rules as to what
                                      constitutes an SCA sanctioned event in a local area. Obviously, if
                                      the local rules for sanctioning an event are stricter than society
                                      standards, the event will not be insured due to the terms of the
                                      policy but we cannot set conditions for insurability on our own.
                                      Carolus

                                      At 11:58 AM 5/9/2009, you wrote:

                                      > > On May 9, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Carolus wrote:
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >> I will note, however that insurance requirements are set at society
                                      > >> level, not Kingdom, thus while your kingdom may require specific
                                      > >> conditions, they may not really matter in the event of a claim.
                                      > >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >Not when the Society seneschal specifically delegates relevant rule-
                                      >making authority to the kingdom seneschals and that said seneschals
                                      >(as well as local branch seneschals) are specifically legal agents of
                                      >the Society.
                                      >
                                      >However, Carolus and I have indeed been referring to our direct
                                      >experiences in Caid over a number of years. I find it easier to cite
                                      >our kingdom's seneschal's handbook and relate it to my experience.
                                      >Probably since I am not a lawyer, I sometimes find the Society
                                      >handbook somewhat vague on specifics.
                                      >
                                      > James
                                    • James of the Lake
                                      ... I don t agree. If the local rules were LOOSER than what the terms of the policy requires, then the event would not be covered if these rules did not
                                      Message 18 of 27 , May 9, 2009
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                                        On May 9, 2009, at 1:56 PM, Carolus wrote:

                                        > Obviously, if
                                        > the local rules for sanctioning an event are stricter than society
                                        > standards, the event will not be insured due to the terms of the
                                        > policy but we cannot set conditions for insurability on our own.
                                        >

                                        I don't agree. If the local rules were LOOSER than what the terms of
                                        the policy requires, then the event would not be covered if these
                                        rules did not comply with the terms of the insurer's contract, but
                                        additional rules that still fell within the scope of the contract
                                        should not negate it.

                                        Specifically, within the context of this topic on waivers, Society
                                        Seneschal's Handbook, October 2005 ed. (the latest), p. 5, paragraph
                                        X.A.3. "Individual Kingdoms or site owners may impose additional or
                                        more stringent restrictions at their discretion" as to when waivers
                                        are required.

                                        James
                                      • obsidian@raex.com
                                        Correct, waivers cannot negate the possibility of being sued. But customary SCA practice for a very long while has been to provide a paper trail for informed
                                        Message 19 of 27 , May 9, 2009
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                                          Correct, waivers cannot negate the possibility of being sued. But
                                          customary SCA practice for a very long while has been to provide a paper
                                          trail for informed consent, and that is the sense in which I understood
                                          the original query.

                                          Nigel

                                          On Sat, May 9, 2009 12:15
                                          pm, Carolus wrote:
                                          > Two items:
                                          > 1) An event need not be
                                          published to be covered by insurance - all
                                          > SCA sponsored
                                          activities are covered. See the Seneschal's Handbook,
                                          > pg 22 et
                                          al. This is a change from older rules
                                          > 2) The signing of a
                                          waiver cannot be used to imply liability. This
                                          > is an urban
                                          myth. Waivers will not prevent lawsuits, they only make
                                          > them
                                          easier to win. The waiver is similar to the informed consent
                                          >
                                          form one signs at a doctor's office - is says you know the risks and
                                          > accept them willingly. The only difference in having a waiver or
                                          not
                                          > is that if no waiver is required it can be argued that the
                                          event
                                          > organizer(s) knew of the danger and concealed it thus
                                          making it
                                          > harder to win a suit.
                                          >
                                          > That said,
                                          when I ran archery for Caid I asked for corporate opinion
                                          > and
                                          was told no waivers needed at archery practice.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          Carolus
                                          > former Seneschal who reads the current handbooks
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > At 02:29 AM 5/9/2009, you wrote:

                                          --
                                          "Ausculta, feminae novae in lacunis recumbens gladii
                                          dispensans non fundamentum pro formula administrationis est."
                                          -
                                          http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Carolus
                                          True, they may set more stringent regulations in terms of society operations but they may NOT change the terms of a contract with a third party and this is
                                          Message 20 of 27 , May 9, 2009
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                                            True, they may set more stringent regulations in terms of society
                                            operations but they may NOT change the terms of a contract with a
                                            third party and this is where the insurability of an event comes in -
                                            it is in the contract between the SCA, Inc. and the insurance
                                            company, the kingdom has no standing. So while we may set more
                                            stringent regulations as to what constitutes a sanctioned event we
                                            cannot change the terms of the insurance contract. The effect is the
                                            same but the mechanism is different and in terms of contract law the
                                            mechanism is everything.
                                            Carolus

                                            At 02:40 PM 5/9/2009, you wrote:

                                            >On May 9, 2009, at 1:56 PM, Carolus wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > Obviously, if
                                            > > the local rules for sanctioning an event are stricter than society
                                            > > standards, the event will not be insured due to the terms of the
                                            > > policy but we cannot set conditions for insurability on our own.
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >I don't agree. If the local rules were LOOSER than what the terms of
                                            >the policy requires, then the event would not be covered if these
                                            >rules did not comply with the terms of the insurer's contract, but
                                            >additional rules that still fell within the scope of the contract
                                            >should not negate it.
                                            >
                                            >Specifically, within the context of this topic on waivers, Society
                                            >Seneschal's Handbook, October 2005 ed. (the latest), p. 5, paragraph
                                            >X.A.3. "Individual Kingdoms or site owners may impose additional or
                                            >more stringent restrictions at their discretion" as to when waivers
                                            >are required.
                                            >
                                            > James
                                          • James Koch
                                            Gentlemen & Ladies, ... For a number of years now we have been seeing discussions about new shoot formats. Now we are also seeing discussions about new shoots
                                            Message 21 of 27 , May 25, 2009
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                                              Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                              >
                                              For a number of years now we have been seeing discussions about new
                                              shoot formats. Now we are also seeing discussions about new shoots
                                              for this upcoming Pennsic. I have a rudimentary idea. Why not hold
                                              a Champion Of The Known World shoot at this coming Pennsic. Any
                                              archer can participate with one condition to be related later. There
                                              will be two winners. One for hand bow and one for cross bow. Each
                                              winner will be awarded a trophy of some sort. The sort of belt that
                                              prize fighters wear would be cool. The condition would be that the
                                              participants would all agree that if they won, they would attend and
                                              host a similar shoot the following year at Estrella or Gulf Wars
                                              where they would defend their title against all comers.
                                              >
                                              So let's discuss all the logistics and similar issues entailed.
                                              >
                                              Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                                            • James of the Lake
                                              Already been done. At Estrella for some years, then the organizers got better and changed the name to Estrella War Champion. James
                                              Message 22 of 27 , May 25, 2009
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                                                Already been done. At Estrella for some years, then the organizers
                                                got better and changed the name to Estrella War Champion.

                                                James

                                                On May 25, 2009, at 6:55 PM, James Koch wrote:

                                                > Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                                >>
                                                > For a number of years now we have been seeing discussions about new
                                                > shoot formats. Now we are also seeing discussions about new shoots
                                                > for this upcoming Pennsic. I have a rudimentary idea. Why not hold
                                                > a Champion Of The Known World shoot at this coming Pennsic. Any
                                                > archer can participate with one condition to be related later. There
                                                > will be two winners. One for hand bow and one for cross bow. Each
                                                > winner will be awarded a trophy of some sort. The sort of belt that
                                                > prize fighters wear would be cool. The condition would be that the
                                                > participants would all agree that if they won, they would attend and
                                                > host a similar shoot the following year at Estrella or Gulf Wars
                                                > where they would defend their title against all comers.
                                                >>
                                                > So let's discuss all the logistics and similar issues entailed.
                                                >>
                                                > Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                                                >
                                              • James Koch
                                                James, ... Perhaps we can do a similar shoot at Pennsic and another can take place at Gulf Wars. The rules of the shoots could actually be quite different.
                                                Message 23 of 27 , May 26, 2009
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                                                  James,
                                                  >
                                                  Perhaps we can do a similar shoot at Pennsic and another can take
                                                  place at Gulf Wars. The rules of the shoots could actually be quite
                                                  different. It would be like the Trifecta of SCA archery. A person
                                                  could resolve to shoot in all three. Of course the chances of
                                                  winning all three in a given year, the triple crown, would be nearly
                                                  zero, but it would be worth a try. An archer could figure his
                                                  relative rank by a simple percentile average.
                                                  >
                                                  What are the rules of the Estrella shoot, or does it change from year to year?
                                                  >
                                                  Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >At 11:01 PM 5/25/2009, you wrote:


                                                  >Already been done. At Estrella for some years, then the organizers
                                                  >got better and changed the name to Estrella War Champion.
                                                  >
                                                  >James
                                                  >
                                                  >On May 25, 2009, at 6:55 PM, James Koch wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > > Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                                  > >>
                                                  > > For a number of years now we have been seeing discussions about new
                                                  > > shoot formats. Now we are also seeing discussions about new shoots
                                                  > > for this upcoming Pennsic. I have a rudimentary idea. Why not hold
                                                  > > a Champion Of The Known World shoot at this coming Pennsic. Any
                                                  > > archer can participate with one condition to be related later. There
                                                  > > will be two winners. One for hand bow and one for cross bow. Each
                                                  > > winner will be awarded a trophy of some sort. The sort of belt that
                                                  > > prize fighters wear would be cool. The condition would be that the
                                                  > > participants would all agree that if they won, they would attend and
                                                  > > host a similar shoot the following year at Estrella or Gulf Wars
                                                  > > where they would defend their title against all comers.
                                                  > >>
                                                  > > So let's discuss all the logistics and similar issues entailed.
                                                  > >>
                                                  > > Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                                                  > >
                                                  >


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • James of the Lake
                                                  The Estrella War Archery Champion Tournament (Ewac) consists of three competitions run simultaneously (hand bow, crossbow, youth). Each archer first shoots a
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , May 26, 2009
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                                                    The Estrella War Archery Champion Tournament (Ewac) consists of three
                                                    competitions run simultaneously (hand bow, crossbow, youth). Each
                                                    archer first shoots a qualification Royal Round; top 5 archers in
                                                    each kingdom for each category advance to the finals, which is an
                                                    IKAC. All shot on 60cm FITA targets.

                                                    Normally I'd direct you to the treaty page on the Estrella War site
                                                    for details, but I see there's no link to the last war this time.

                                                    Lots of opportunity to do period-style shooting at other events as
                                                    part of an overall SCA-wide championship.

                                                    James

                                                    On May 26, 2009, at 9:32 PM, James Koch wrote:

                                                    > James,
                                                    >>
                                                    > Perhaps we can do a similar shoot at Pennsic and another can take
                                                    > place at Gulf Wars. The rules of the shoots could actually be quite
                                                    > different. It would be like the Trifecta of SCA archery. A person
                                                    > could resolve to shoot in all three. Of course the chances of
                                                    > winning all three in a given year, the triple crown, would be nearly
                                                    > zero, but it would be worth a try. An archer could figure his
                                                    > relative rank by a simple percentile average.
                                                    >>
                                                    > What are the rules of the Estrella shoot, or does it change from
                                                    > year to year?
                                                    >>
                                                    > Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> At 11:01 PM 5/25/2009, you wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >> Already been done. At Estrella for some years, then the organizers
                                                    >> got better and changed the name to Estrella War Champion.
                                                    >>
                                                    >> James
                                                    >>
                                                    >> On May 25, 2009, at 6:55 PM, James Koch wrote:
                                                    >>
                                                    >>> Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>> For a number of years now we have been seeing discussions about new
                                                    >>> shoot formats. Now we are also seeing discussions about new shoots
                                                    >>> for this upcoming Pennsic. I have a rudimentary idea. Why not hold
                                                    >>> a Champion Of The Known World shoot at this coming Pennsic. Any
                                                    >>> archer can participate with one condition to be related later. There
                                                    >>> will be two winners. One for hand bow and one for cross bow. Each
                                                    >>> winner will be awarded a trophy of some sort. The sort of belt that
                                                    >>> prize fighters wear would be cool. The condition would be that the
                                                    >>> participants would all agree that if they won, they would attend and
                                                    >>> host a similar shoot the following year at Estrella or Gulf Wars
                                                    >>> where they would defend their title against all comers.
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>> So let's discuss all the logistics and similar issues entailed.
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>> Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>
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                                                  • William Arwemakere
                                                    Hmm, I may have to go to an Estrella... Do they still run the Quick and the dead tourney? William Arwemakere On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 10:22 PM, James of the
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , May 27, 2009
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                                                      Hmm, I may have to go to an Estrella...

                                                      Do they still run the "Quick and the dead" tourney?

                                                      William Arwemakere

                                                      On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 10:22 PM, James of the Lake
                                                      <jotl2008@...>wrote:

                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > The Estrella War Archery Champion Tournament (Ewac) consists of three
                                                      > competitions run simultaneously (hand bow, crossbow, youth). Each
                                                      > archer first shoots a qualification Royal Round; top 5 archers in
                                                      > each kingdom for each category advance to the finals, which is an
                                                      > IKAC. All shot on 60cm FITA targets.
                                                      >
                                                      > Normally I'd direct you to the treaty page on the Estrella War site
                                                      > for details, but I see there's no link to the last war this time.
                                                      >
                                                      > Lots of opportunity to do period-style shooting at other events as
                                                      > part of an overall SCA-wide championship.
                                                      >
                                                      > James
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > On May 26, 2009, at 9:32 PM, James Koch wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > >
                                                      > Recent Activity
                                                      >
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                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • James of the Lake
                                                      Dunno. Might have been a side event. The main show is the war point shoot. Three days of novelties with FITA s mostly confined to the practice range. James
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , May 27, 2009
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                                                        Dunno. Might have been a side event.

                                                        The main show is the war point shoot. Three days of novelties with
                                                        FITA's mostly confined to the practice range.

                                                        James

                                                        On May 27, 2009, at 12:52 PM, William Arwemakere wrote:

                                                        > Hmm, I may have to go to an Estrella...
                                                        >
                                                        > Do they still run the "Quick and the dead" tourney?
                                                        >
                                                        > William Arwemakere
                                                        >
                                                        > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 10:22 PM, James of the Lake
                                                        > <jotl2008@...>wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >> The Estrella War Archery Champion Tournament (Ewac) consists of three
                                                        >> competitions run simultaneously (hand bow, crossbow, youth). Each
                                                        >> archer first shoots a qualification Royal Round; top 5 archers in
                                                        >> each kingdom for each category advance to the finals, which is an
                                                        >> IKAC. All shot on 60cm FITA targets.
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Normally I'd direct you to the treaty page on the Estrella War site
                                                        >> for details, but I see there's no link to the last war this time.
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Lots of opportunity to do period-style shooting at other events as
                                                        >> part of an overall SCA-wide championship.
                                                        >>
                                                        >> James
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >> On May 26, 2009, at 9:32 PM, James Koch wrote:
                                                        >>
                                                        >>>>>
                                                        >>>
                                                        >> Recent Activity
                                                        >>
                                                        >> - 2
                                                        >> New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/
                                                        >> members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMXQ4dGlkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBz
                                                        >> cElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm1icnMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MzQwMTg4NA-->
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Visit Your Group
                                                        >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-
                                                        >> Archery;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdTUxbzlqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBz
                                                        >> cElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxMjQzNDAxODg0>
                                                        >> Give Back
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Yahoo! for Good<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/
                                                        >> _ylc=X3oDMTJsMG1mYmE2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzEEZ3JwSWQDMjU5NTMxBGdycHNw
                                                        >> SWQDMTcwNTc2NzUwMwRzZWMDbmNtb2QEc2xrA2JyYW5kBHN0aW1lAzEyNDM0MDE4ODQ-;
                                                        >> _ylg=1/SIG=11314uv3k/**http%3A//brand.yahoo.com/forgood>
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Get inspired
                                                        >>
                                                        >> by a good cause.
                                                        >> Y! Toolbar
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Get it Free!<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/
                                                        >> _ylc=X3oDMTJuaXB1OTB0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzIEZ3JwSWQDMjU5NTMxBGdycHNw
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                                                        >> A--;_ylg=1/SIG=11c6dvmk9/**http%3A//toolbar.yahoo.com/%3F.cpdl=ygrps>
                                                        >>
                                                        >> easy 1-click access
                                                        >>
                                                        >> to your groups.
                                                        >> Yahoo! Groups
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Start a group<http://groups.yahoo.com/
                                                        >> start;_ylc=X3oDMTJuYWI3dWZjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzMEZ3JwSWQDMjU5NTMxBG
                                                        >> dycHNwSWQDMTcwNTc2NzUwMwRzZWMDbmNtb2QEc2xrA2dyb3VwczIEc3RpbWUDMTI0MzQ
                                                        >> wMTg4NA-->
                                                        >>
                                                        >> in 3 easy steps.
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Connect with others.
                                                        >> .
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
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