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Re: Longbow or Recurve

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  • jameswolfden
    My sources would indicate almost the opposite. The Nydam bows are pretty darn close to the English Longbow. Long with a roundish or oval cross section. Mostly
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 26, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      My sources would indicate almost the opposite.

      The Nydam bows are pretty darn close to the English Longbow. Long
      with a roundish or oval cross section. Mostly constructed out of yew.

      In Service,
      James Wolfden


      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Frederick Fenters"
      <padraig@...> wrote:
      >
      > Viking bows tended to be relatively short, deflexed (a sort of a
      modified
      > recurve) and fashioned with a rectangular cross section, by the
      sources I
      > have seen. The woods that were native to Scandinavia dictated a
      wide flat
      > construction, rather like those of the Native Americans.
      >
      >
      >
      > Padraig
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-
      Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of Egil Haraldsson
      > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 6:52 PM
      > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Longbow or Recurve
      >
      >
      >
      > Actually I am 1Oth Century Viking so the longbow would be my best
      bet.
      >
      > --- In SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com,
      > James of the Lake <jotl2008@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > All you have to do is to bring an eastern recurve back with you
      > from
      > > the holy land.
      > >
      > > For a Yumi, it would be more plausible if you were a late period
      > > Portuguese sailor.
      > >
      > > James
      > >
      > > On Jan 26, 2009, at 3:36 PM, Dan Scheid wrote:
      > >
      > > > Well I will put on my art's hat. IF your going to upgrade then
      I
      > would
      > > > suggest that you go period. Which is longbow or one of the
      > Mongolian
      > > > recurve or even Japanese bamboo. So what is your persona? OR
      > can
      > > > you come
      > > > up with a great Story from having non-traditional bow?
      > > >
      > > > Damales.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > _____
      > > >
      > > > I know I will get a lot of different opinions on this but I am
      > there.
      > > >
      > > > I am ready to move up on the quality of my bow. I will say
      between
      > > > 300.00 - 500.00 range. What I can not get my head around is
      long
      > bow
      > > > or recurve. I want a (now don't everyone) smooth, fast bow at
      40-
      > 45#
      > > > range. I am looking very hard at the Bear bows but they begin
      at
      > 45#.
      > > > I have been shooting a 35# bow for the last 3 years. Is 45# to
      > big of
      > > > a move??
      > > >
      > > > I apologize for starting the storm but I want to make a
      decision
      > soon
      > > > so I can get practicing before GW.
      > > >
      > > > A little info on what I have been shooting:
      > > >
      > > > I have been shooting a Bullseye, 35# 62" and a Reflex/Deflex
      34#,
      > 56"
      > > > Pilgram I purchased at GW. I like shooting the recurve more
      than
      > the
      > > > longbow becase of the speed of the arrow. The recurve seems to
      > shoot
      > > > fasters and I get better grouping from it. I also like the
      feel of
      > > > the grip.
      > > >
      > > > Now I know there will be the whole "period" discussion and I
      > agree,
      > > > the question then comes, which longbow do I look at to get the
      > same
      > > > speed and accuracy??
      > > >
      > > > Thanks in advance for your conciderations. Oh any suggested
      > > > dealers/bowers/-etc would be a help.
      > > >
      > > > Egil
      > > > Gleann Abhann
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > > > Checked by AVG.
      > > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release
      > Date:
      > > > 1/26/2009
      > > > 7:08 AM
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
      > > > Checked by AVG.
      > > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release
      > Date:
      > > > 1/26/2009
      > > > 7:08 AM
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > > --
      > > > [Email to SCA-Archery-
      > <mailto:SCA-Archery-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
      > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
      > list]
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Dan Scheid
      Cool can you post the ISBN of the sources? Damales _____ From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frederick Fenters
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 26, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Cool can you post the ISBN of the sources?

        Damales



        _____

        From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Frederick Fenters
        Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 4:12 PM
        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Re: Longbow or Recurve



        Viking bows tended to be relatively short, deflexed (a sort of a modified
        recurve) and fashioned with a rectangular cross section, by the sources I
        have seen. The woods that were native to Scandinavia dictated a wide flat
        construction, rather like those of the Native Americans.

        Padraig

        _____

        From: HYPERLINK
        "mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com"SCA-Archery@-yahoogroups.-com
        [mailto:HYPERLINK
        "mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com"SCA-Archery@-yahoogroups.-com] On
        Behalf Of Egil Haraldsson
        Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 6:52 PM
        To: HYPERLINK
        "mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com"SCA-Archery@-yahoogroups.-com
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Longbow or Recurve

        Actually I am 1Oth Century Viking so the longbow would be my best bet.

        --- In SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA--Archery%40yahoog-roups.com>
        yahoogroups.-com,
        James of the Lake <jotl2008@..-.>
        wrote:
        >
        > All you have to do is to bring an eastern recurve back with you
        from
        > the holy land.
        >
        > For a Yumi, it would be more plausible if you were a late period
        > Portuguese sailor.
        >
        > James
        >
        > On Jan 26, 2009, at 3:36 PM, Dan Scheid wrote:
        >
        > > Well I will put on my art's hat. IF your going to upgrade then I
        would
        > > suggest that you go period. Which is longbow or one of the
        Mongolian
        > > recurve or even Japanese bamboo. So what is your persona? OR
        can
        > > you come
        > > up with a great Story from having non-traditional bow?
        > >
        > > Damales.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > _____
        > >
        > > I know I will get a lot of different opinions on this but I am
        there.
        > >
        > > I am ready to move up on the quality of my bow. I will say between
        > > 300.00 - 500.00 range. What I can not get my head around is long
        bow
        > > or recurve. I want a (now don't everyone) smooth, fast bow at 40-
        45#
        > > range. I am looking very hard at the Bear bows but they begin at
        45#.
        > > I have been shooting a 35# bow for the last 3 years. Is 45# to
        big of
        > > a move??
        > >
        > > I apologize for starting the storm but I want to make a decision
        soon
        > > so I can get practicing before GW.
        > >
        > > A little info on what I have been shooting:
        > >
        > > I have been shooting a Bullseye, 35# 62" and a Reflex/Deflex 34#,
        56"
        > > Pilgram I purchased at GW. I like shooting the recurve more than
        the
        > > longbow becase of the speed of the arrow. The recurve seems to
        shoot
        > > fasters and I get better grouping from it. I also like the feel of
        > > the grip.
        > >
        > > Now I know there will be the whole "period" discussion and I
        agree,
        > > the question then comes, which longbow do I look at to get the
        same
        > > speed and accuracy??
        > >
        > > Thanks in advance for your conciderations. Oh any suggested
        > > dealers/bowers/--etc would be a help.
        > >
        > > Egil
        > > Gleann Abhann
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > Checked by AVG.
        > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release
        Date:
        > > 1/26/2009
        > > 7:08 AM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
        > > Checked by AVG.
        > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release
        Date:
        > > 1/26/2009
        > > 7:08 AM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------------
        > >
        > > --
        > > [Email to SCA-Archery-
        <mailto:SCA--Archery-unsubscr-ibe%40yahoogroup-s.com>
        HYPERLINK
        "mailto:unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com"unsubscribe@-yahoogroups.-com to leave
        this
        list]
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG.
        Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release Date: 1/26/2009
        7:08 AM



        No virus found in this outgoing message.
        Checked by AVG.
        Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release Date: 1/26/2009
        7:08 AM



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • atruemark@aol.com
        Crossbow would certainly be one good option. Another would be the shorter hunting style yew wood longbow favored by the Scandinavians. Based on the little
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 26, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Crossbow would certainly be one good option. Another would be the shorter
          hunting style yew wood longbow favored by the Scandinavians. Based on the
          little bit of archeological finds, these bows were likely in the 60 lb range and
          about the length of a modern longbow but made in the D-section common to
          medieval European bows. It wouldn't be unreasonable to shoot a smaller replica
          at about 40 lbs to accommodate both your persona and strength.

          As for arrow speeds between traditionally crafted bows and modern recurves,
          you could concentrate on making your arrows as absolutely light as possible
          yet still matched to the bow. This would help bridge the speed gap.

          Andras
          **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
          steps!
          (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
          cemailfooterNO62)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lianor de Najera
          One thing to consider about crossbow - the laws surrounding them can often be different. For example, here in Calgary we have a city ordinance that crossbows
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 26, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            One thing to consider about crossbow - the laws surrounding them can
            often be different. For example, here in Calgary we have a city
            ordinance that crossbows cannot be shot within city limits. So the
            archery range where we have weekly practices and most of our tourneys
            cannot allow crossbows. I have no idea how usual or unusual this is,
            but it might bear looking into before deciding on a switch to crossbow.

            En Servicio,
            Lianor de Najera



            Frederick Fenters wrote:
            >
            > Another option: go crossbow. It is an entirely different discipline than
            > using longbow, flatbow, horsebow, or recurve. BTW, there is documentation
            > of relatively short, recurved bows on the European continent,
            > especially in
            > the "Low Countries" such as Belgium. The woods they had readily available
            > were not well suited for longbows.
            >
            > Crossbows were more common on the Continent, both as sporting and war
            > weapons, and particularly in the areas of Switzerland and the Italies.
            >
            > Padraig
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>
            > [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>] On
            > Behalf Of Dan Scheid
            > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 6:37 PM
            > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Longbow or Recurve
            >
            > Well I will put on my art's hat. IF your going to upgrade then I would
            > suggest that you go period. Which is longbow or one of the Mongolian
            > recurve or even Japanese bamboo. So what is your persona? OR can you come
            > up with a great Story from having non-traditional bow?
            >
            > Damales.
            >
            > _____
            >
            > I know I will get a lot of different opinions on this but I am there.
            >
            > I am ready to move up on the quality of my bow. I will say between
            > 300.00 - 500.00 range. What I can not get my head around is long bow
            > or recurve. I want a (now don't everyone) smooth, fast bow at 40-45#
            > range. I am looking very hard at the Bear bows but they begin at 45#.
            > I have been shooting a 35# bow for the last 3 years. Is 45# to big of
            > a move??
            >
            > I apologize for starting the storm but I want to make a decision soon
            > so I can get practicing before GW.
            >
            > A little info on what I have been shooting:
            >
            > I have been shooting a Bullseye, 35# 62" and a Reflex/Deflex 34#, 56"
            > Pilgram I purchased at GW. I like shooting the recurve more than the
            > longbow becase of the speed of the arrow. The recurve seems to shoot
            > fasters and I get better grouping from it. I also like the feel of
            > the grip.
            >
            > Now I know there will be the whole "period" discussion and I agree,
            > the question then comes, which longbow do I look at to get the same
            > speed and accuracy??
            >
            > Thanks in advance for your conciderations. Oh any suggested
            > dealers/bowers/-etc would be a help.
            >
            > Egil
            > Gleann Abhann
            >
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG.
            > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release Date:
            > 1/26/2009
            > 7:08 AM
            >
            > No virus found in this outgoing message.
            > Checked by AVG.
            > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release Date:
            > 1/26/2009
            > 7:08 AM
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > --
            > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:SCA-Archery-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> to leave this list]
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
          • Egil Haraldsson
            Thanks but I am not interested in crosbow,except for combat archery, at this time. I still enjoy traditional shooting. I was just in that self battle of period
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 27, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Thanks but I am not interested in crosbow,except for combat archery,
              at this time. I still enjoy traditional shooting. I was just in that
              self battle of period verses what I am used to. I enjoy archery and
              want to be able to competitive at events. Thanks for the suggestions
              and ideas.

              Egil

              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Lianor de Najera
              <lianordenajera@...> wrote:
              >
              > One thing to consider about crossbow - the laws surrounding them can
              > often be different. For example, here in Calgary we have a city
              > ordinance that crossbows cannot be shot within city limits. So the
              > archery range where we have weekly practices and most of our
              tourneys
              > cannot allow crossbows. I have no idea how usual or unusual this
              is,
              > but it might bear looking into before deciding on a switch to
              crossbow.
              >
              > En Servicio,
              > Lianor de Najera
              >
              >
              >
              > Frederick Fenters wrote:
              > >
              > > Another option: go crossbow. It is an entirely different
              discipline than
              > > using longbow, flatbow, horsebow, or recurve. BTW, there is
              documentation
              > > of relatively short, recurved bows on the European continent,
              > > especially in
              > > the "Low Countries" such as Belgium. The woods they had readily
              available
              > > were not well suited for longbows.
              > >
              > > Crossbows were more common on the Continent, both as sporting and
              war
              > > weapons, and particularly in the areas of Switzerland and the
              Italies.
              > >
              > > Padraig
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>] On
              > > Behalf Of Dan Scheid
              > > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 6:37 PM
              > > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SCA-Archery%
              40yahoogroups.com>
              > > Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Longbow or Recurve
              > >
              > > Well I will put on my art's hat. IF your going to upgrade then I
              would
              > > suggest that you go period. Which is longbow or one of the
              Mongolian
              > > recurve or even Japanese bamboo. So what is your persona? OR can
              you come
              > > up with a great Story from having non-traditional bow?
              > >
              > > Damales.
              > >
              > > _____
              > >
              > > I know I will get a lot of different opinions on this but I am
              there.
              > >
              > > I am ready to move up on the quality of my bow. I will say between
              > > 300.00 - 500.00 range. What I can not get my head around is long
              bow
              > > or recurve. I want a (now don't everyone) smooth, fast bow at 40-
              45#
              > > range. I am looking very hard at the Bear bows but they begin at
              45#.
              > > I have been shooting a 35# bow for the last 3 years. Is 45# to
              big of
              > > a move??
              > >
              > > I apologize for starting the storm but I want to make a decision
              soon
              > > so I can get practicing before GW.
              > >
              > > A little info on what I have been shooting:
              > >
              > > I have been shooting a Bullseye, 35# 62" and a Reflex/Deflex 34#,
              56"
              > > Pilgram I purchased at GW. I like shooting the recurve more than
              the
              > > longbow becase of the speed of the arrow. The recurve seems to
              shoot
              > > fasters and I get better grouping from it. I also like the feel of
              > > the grip.
              > >
              > > Now I know there will be the whole "period" discussion and I
              agree,
              > > the question then comes, which longbow do I look at to get the
              same
              > > speed and accuracy??
              > >
              > > Thanks in advance for your conciderations. Oh any suggested
              > > dealers/bowers/-etc would be a help.
              > >
              > > Egil
              > > Gleann Abhann
              > >
              > > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > > Checked by AVG.
              > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release Date:
              > > 1/26/2009
              > > 7:08 AM
              > >
              > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
              > > Checked by AVG.
              > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release Date:
              > > 1/26/2009
              > > 7:08 AM
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > --
              > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:SCA-Archery-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> to leave this
              list]
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Frederick Fenters
              They were on paper, mostly copies, and have disappeared in the 15+ years and 4 moves since they were considered decent documentation. Others have access to
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 27, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                They were on paper, mostly copies, and have disappeared in the 15+ years and
                4 moves since they were considered decent documentation. Others have access
                to more recent information, including use of Yew. I stand by my words, but
                am bowing to more recent data.



                _____

                From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Dan Scheid
                Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 7:20 PM
                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Re: Longbow or Recurve



                Cool can you post the ISBN of the sources?

                Damales

                _____

                From: SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
                On
                Behalf Of Frederick Fenters
                Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 4:12 PM
                To: SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Re: Longbow or Recurve

                Viking bows tended to be relatively short, deflexed (a sort of a modified
                recurve) and fashioned with a rectangular cross section, by the sources I
                have seen. The woods that were native to Scandinavia dictated a wide flat
                construction, rather like those of the Native Americans.

                Padraig

                _____

                From: HYPERLINK
                "mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com"SCA-Archery@-yahoogroups.-com
                [mailto:HYPERLINK
                "mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com"SCA-Archery@-yahoogroups.-com] On
                Behalf Of Egil Haraldsson
                Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 6:52 PM
                To: HYPERLINK
                "mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com"SCA-Archery@-yahoogroups.-com
                Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Longbow or Recurve

                Actually I am 1Oth Century Viking so the longbow would be my best bet.

                --- In SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA--Archery%40yahoog-roups.com>
                yahoogroups.-com,
                James of the Lake <jotl2008@..-.>
                wrote:
                >
                > All you have to do is to bring an eastern recurve back with you
                from
                > the holy land.
                >
                > For a Yumi, it would be more plausible if you were a late period
                > Portuguese sailor.
                >
                > James
                >
                > On Jan 26, 2009, at 3:36 PM, Dan Scheid wrote:
                >
                > > Well I will put on my art's hat. IF your going to upgrade then I
                would
                > > suggest that you go period. Which is longbow or one of the
                Mongolian
                > > recurve or even Japanese bamboo. So what is your persona? OR
                can
                > > you come
                > > up with a great Story from having non-traditional bow?
                > >
                > > Damales.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > _____
                > >
                > > I know I will get a lot of different opinions on this but I am
                there.
                > >
                > > I am ready to move up on the quality of my bow. I will say between
                > > 300.00 - 500.00 range. What I can not get my head around is long
                bow
                > > or recurve. I want a (now don't everyone) smooth, fast bow at 40-
                45#
                > > range. I am looking very hard at the Bear bows but they begin at
                45#.
                > > I have been shooting a 35# bow for the last 3 years. Is 45# to
                big of
                > > a move??
                > >
                > > I apologize for starting the storm but I want to make a decision
                soon
                > > so I can get practicing before GW.
                > >
                > > A little info on what I have been shooting:
                > >
                > > I have been shooting a Bullseye, 35# 62" and a Reflex/Deflex 34#,
                56"
                > > Pilgram I purchased at GW. I like shooting the recurve more than
                the
                > > longbow becase of the speed of the arrow. The recurve seems to
                shoot
                > > fasters and I get better grouping from it. I also like the feel of
                > > the grip.
                > >
                > > Now I know there will be the whole "period" discussion and I
                agree,
                > > the question then comes, which longbow do I look at to get the
                same
                > > speed and accuracy??
                > >
                > > Thanks in advance for your conciderations. Oh any suggested
                > > dealers/bowers/--etc would be a help.
                > >
                > > Egil
                > > Gleann Abhann
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > > Checked by AVG.
                > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release
                Date:
                > > 1/26/2009
                > > 7:08 AM
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                > > Checked by AVG.
                > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release
                Date:
                > > 1/26/2009
                > > 7:08 AM
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > > ---------------------------------------
                > >
                > > --
                > > [Email to SCA-Archery-
                <mailto:SCA--Archery-unsubscr-ibe%40yahoogroup-s.com>
                HYPERLINK
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                this
                list]
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >

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                No virus found in this incoming message.
                Checked by AVG.
                Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release Date: 1/26/2009
                7:08 AM

                No virus found in this outgoing message.
                Checked by AVG.
                Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release Date: 1/26/2009
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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              • Frederick Fenters
                Such discriminatory laws have been successfully challenged in some places. Don t ask for documentation, my creeping senility has been galloping again recently.
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 27, 2009
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                  Such discriminatory laws have been successfully challenged in some places.
                  Don't ask for documentation, my creeping senility has been galloping again
                  recently. I know that most cities have laws restricting the use of
                  projectile weapons of all sorts, considering all to be in the same category
                  as modern firearms. If you have a range already in place for archery, they
                  have most probably been granted an exception to the local ordinance. The
                  way to obtain permission for the crossbow is to approach the local authority
                  that creates the laws, explain politely and with documentation, what you
                  wish to do and why it will not be a danger nor a breach of the peace.



                  In general, the laws are not there to keep people from learning or having
                  fun, but to protect us from those who are malevolent in intent or just too
                  damn stupid to be allowed to wander around aimlessly.



                  Padraig



                  _____

                  From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Lianor de Najera
                  Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:34 AM
                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Longbow or Recurve



                  One thing to consider about crossbow - the laws surrounding them can
                  often be different. For example, here in Calgary we have a city
                  ordinance that crossbows cannot be shot within city limits. So the
                  archery range where we have weekly practices and most of our tourneys
                  cannot allow crossbows. I have no idea how usual or unusual this is,
                  but it might bear looking into before deciding on a switch to crossbow.

                  En Servicio,
                  Lianor de Najera

                  Frederick Fenters wrote:
                  >
                  > Another option: go crossbow. It is an entirely different discipline than
                  > using longbow, flatbow, horsebow, or recurve. BTW, there is documentation
                  > of relatively short, recurved bows on the European continent,
                  > especially in
                  > the "Low Countries" such as Belgium. The woods they had readily available
                  > were not well suited for longbows.
                  >
                  > Crossbows were more common on the Continent, both as sporting and war
                  > weapons, and particularly in the areas of Switzerland and the Italies.
                  >
                  > Padraig
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > [mailto:SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                  > Behalf Of Dan Scheid
                  > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 6:37 PM
                  > To: SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Longbow or Recurve
                  >
                  > Well I will put on my art's hat. IF your going to upgrade then I would
                  > suggest that you go period. Which is longbow or one of the Mongolian
                  > recurve or even Japanese bamboo. So what is your persona? OR can you come
                  > up with a great Story from having non-traditional bow?
                  >
                  > Damales.
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > I know I will get a lot of different opinions on this but I am there.
                  >
                  > I am ready to move up on the quality of my bow. I will say between
                  > 300.00 - 500.00 range. What I can not get my head around is long bow
                  > or recurve. I want a (now don't everyone) smooth, fast bow at 40-45#
                  > range. I am looking very hard at the Bear bows but they begin at 45#.
                  > I have been shooting a 35# bow for the last 3 years. Is 45# to big of
                  > a move??
                  >
                  > I apologize for starting the storm but I want to make a decision soon
                  > so I can get practicing before GW.
                  >
                  > A little info on what I have been shooting:
                  >
                  > I have been shooting a Bullseye, 35# 62" and a Reflex/Deflex 34#, 56"
                  > Pilgram I purchased at GW. I like shooting the recurve more than the
                  > longbow becase of the speed of the arrow. The recurve seems to shoot
                  > fasters and I get better grouping from it. I also like the feel of
                  > the grip.
                  >
                  > Now I know there will be the whole "period" discussion and I agree,
                  > the question then comes, which longbow do I look at to get the same
                  > speed and accuracy??
                  >
                  > Thanks in advance for your conciderations. Oh any suggested
                  > dealers/bowers/-etc would be a help.
                  >
                  > Egil
                  > Gleann Abhann
                  >
                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > Checked by AVG.
                  > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release Date:
                  > 1/26/2009
                  > 7:08 AM
                  >
                  > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  > Checked by AVG.
                  > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release Date:
                  > 1/26/2009
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                  >
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                  > <mailto:SCA-Archery-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> to leave this list]
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John and Carol Atkins
                  Egil, Having two recurve bows, Martin Hunter and Bear Kodiak Magnum, three longbows, 2 ElkRidge (Pilgrim) and one Cold Mountain, and one horse bow, Flagella
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 27, 2009
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                    Egil,
                    Having two recurve bows, Martin Hunter and Bear Kodiak Magnum, three
                    longbows, 2 ElkRidge (Pilgrim) and one Cold Mountain, and one horse
                    bow, Flagella Dae, I'll weigh in with my two cents worth and personal
                    observations.

                    First the longbows. From ElkRidge Archery, your Pilgrim bow, one is
                    38 pound and the other 49. Both are of the reflex/deflex design.
                    The 49 pounder shoots very fast and flat compared to the 38.
                    Obivous. But I can shoot the 38 all day long and not get tired. If
                    I stay in shape, I can shoot the 49 pounder all day but know I've
                    shot lots of archery at the end of the day.

                    My Cold Mountain longbow is 48 pound draw. It is glass layered over
                    a wood core with action bamboo backing. In essence it is the same
                    reflex/deflex design as the ElkRidge bows but considerably faster. I
                    attribute that to the action bamboo. All my longbows have
                    essentially straight grips. That is no pistol grips like on the
                    recurves but not a grip like on a true English Longbow (of which I
                    have one of those also).

                    Both the Martin Hunter and Bear Kodiak Magnum (an old greenie) are 45
                    pound draw. Because of the mechanics of how recurves work they are
                    both easier to draw and hold than the 48 and 49 pound longbows.
                    Also, due to the mechanics of a recurve they are slightly faster
                    although I believe, not actually measured scientifically, not as fast
                    as my Cold Mountain longbow.

                    The horse bow lives up to its advertising in that at 40 pound draw it
                    shoots more like a 50 - 55 pound bow. It has a true straight grip in
                    that there is no left, right, up or down on it. Again, as the
                    forerunner to the modern recurve bows, the mechanics of how the bow
                    works allows for easier draw and hold while performing like a higher
                    poundage longbow.

                    In answer to your question about periodness of your archery
                    equipment, recurve bows are period and they don't have to be horse
                    bows with syhas to be period. Reflex/deflex longbows, i.e. your
                    Pilgrim, are also period based on some recent reading I've done but
                    have since forgotten the specific source. In your price range you
                    have lots of choices both longbow and recurve. As for jumping from
                    35 to 45 you will experience some noticable difference. However, get
                    in the mode of an exercise routine specific to the muscles we archers
                    use and you should not be hampered by the increased draw weight.
                    Specifically any degree of discomfort should go away when you see
                    more consistent results. That is not so say lower poundage bows are
                    inconsistent, but my own experience proves that higher poundage bows,
                    i.e. 45 - 55, give me better results. I atrribute that to the arrow
                    getting off the bow faster and having less time for my after-release
                    antics to affect its flight. SMILE HERE!

                    cog



                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Egil Haraldsson"
                    <eagleclaws_skyrider@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I know I will get a lot of different opinions on this but I am
                    there.
                    >
                    > I am ready to move up on the quality of my bow. I will say between
                    > 300.00 - 500.00 range. What I can not get my head around is long
                    bow
                    > or recurve. I want a (now don't everyone) smooth, fast bow at 40-
                    45#
                    > range. I am looking very hard at the Bear bows but they begin at
                    45#.
                    > I have been shooting a 35# bow for the last 3 years. Is 45# to big
                    of
                    > a move??
                    >
                    > I apologize for starting the storm but I want to make a decision
                    soon
                    > so I can get practicing before GW.
                    >
                    > A little info on what I have been shooting:
                    >
                    > I have been shooting a Bullseye, 35# 62" and a Reflex/Deflex 34#,
                    56"
                    > Pilgram I purchased at GW. I like shooting the recurve more than
                    the
                    > longbow becase of the speed of the arrow. The recurve seems to
                    shoot
                    > fasters and I get better grouping from it. I also like the feel of
                    > the grip.
                    >
                    > Now I know there will be the whole "period" discussion and I agree,
                    > the question then comes, which longbow do I look at to get the same
                    > speed and accuracy??
                    >
                    > Thanks in advance for your conciderations. Oh any suggested
                    > dealers/bowers/etc would be a help.
                    >
                    > Egil
                    > Gleann Abhann
                    >
                  • gemphyre
                    Not necessarily. While Scandinavians (i.e. Vikings) were best known for their fighting, they were also wide ranging merchants, and their trading did go into
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 27, 2009
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                      Not necessarily. While Scandinavians (i.e. Vikings) were best known for their fighting, they
                      were also wide ranging merchants, and their trading did go into the Mediterranean as well
                      as deep into the continent.

                      http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/raiders-vikings.html

                      A simple expansion of your character's background could easily explain an "unusual" bow.

                      Your father/uncle/older brother/long time friend of the family is a merchant and has
                      travelled widely in buying and selling goods. For your coming of age test and celebration,
                      he gave you something that he purchased from a far off land, a bow of unusual style.
                      Already a good archer, you were fascinated and enamored by this bow, and endeavored to
                      learn its strengths, weaknesses, and to master it. The person who gave you the bow was
                      able to tell you stories of what the people who made the bow were able to do with it, and
                      what they used it for, so you have some idea what to work on.

                      You get to fill in the rest of the blanks. Do you feel that this would be a valid background
                      for your persona?

                      Antonio Tagliaferro
                      Shire of Shadowed Stars
                      Middle Kingdom


                      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Egil Haraldsson" <eagleclaws_skyrider@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Actually I am 1Oth Century Viking so the longbow would be my best bet.
                      >
                      > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, James of the Lake <jotl2008@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > All you have to do is to bring an eastern recurve back with you
                      > from
                      > > the holy land.
                      > >
                      > > For a Yumi, it would be more plausible if you were a late period
                      > > Portuguese sailor.
                      > >
                      > > James
                      > >
                      > > On Jan 26, 2009, at 3:36 PM, Dan Scheid wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Well I will put on my art's hat. IF your going to upgrade then I
                      > would
                      > > > suggest that you go period. Which is longbow or one of the
                      > Mongolian
                      > > > recurve or even Japanese bamboo. So what is your persona? OR
                      > can
                      > > > you come
                      > > > up with a great Story from having non-traditional bow?
                      > > >
                      > > > Damales.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > _____
                      > > >
                      > > > I know I will get a lot of different opinions on this but I am
                      > there.
                      > > >
                      > > > I am ready to move up on the quality of my bow. I will say between
                      > > > 300.00 - 500.00 range. What I can not get my head around is long
                      > bow
                      > > > or recurve. I want a (now don't everyone) smooth, fast bow at 40-
                      > 45#
                      > > > range. I am looking very hard at the Bear bows but they begin at
                      > 45#.
                      > > > I have been shooting a 35# bow for the last 3 years. Is 45# to
                      > big of
                      > > > a move??
                      > > >
                      > > > I apologize for starting the storm but I want to make a decision
                      > soon
                      > > > so I can get practicing before GW.
                      > > >
                      > > > A little info on what I have been shooting:
                      > > >
                      > > > I have been shooting a Bullseye, 35# 62" and a Reflex/Deflex 34#,
                      > 56"
                      > > > Pilgram I purchased at GW. I like shooting the recurve more than
                      > the
                      > > > longbow becase of the speed of the arrow. The recurve seems to
                      > shoot
                      > > > fasters and I get better grouping from it. I also like the feel of
                      > > > the grip.
                      > > >
                      > > > Now I know there will be the whole "period" discussion and I
                      > agree,
                      > > > the question then comes, which longbow do I look at to get the
                      > same
                      > > > speed and accuracy??
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks in advance for your conciderations. Oh any suggested
                      > > > dealers/bowers/-etc would be a help.
                      > > >
                      > > > Egil
                      > > > Gleann Abhann
                      > > >
                    • jameswolfden
                      ... explain an unusual bow. Greetings Antonio, You have touched upon something that I have always found a bit of a condumdrum. When I first joined the SCA,
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 27, 2009
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                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "gemphyre" <sebree@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > A simple expansion of your character's background could easily
                        explain an "unusual" bow.

                        Greetings Antonio,

                        You have touched upon something that I have always found a bit of a
                        condumdrum.

                        When I first joined the SCA, one of the pieces of advice given to me
                        about choosing a persona was to base your persona on the clothes you
                        wanted to wear. I have always found that makes sense.

                        The longer I have been in the SCA, the authentic my clothes have
                        become. I started out wearing a generic T-Tunic and dark sweat pants
                        and called it an attempt at 14th Century English. The sweat pants gave
                        way to parti-coloured cotton pants and then to linen or wool hose and
                        braies.

                        There was a desire on my part to look the part. That included the right
                        fabric, right colours, and everything else. I am not there yet but I
                        hope that at some point I would look like an English archer circa 1350.

                        That includes a bow appropriate to an English Archer around that time.

                        Now, I could find a way to justify a hornbow because I do want to shoot
                        one but...

                        it would never really look authentic no matter what story I came up
                        with. I have heard many stories from people trying to justify something
                        that just doesn't look quite right. But they always end up sounding
                        like an elaborate justification.

                        But if I am carrying something that looks like an English Longbow, I
                        don't have to come up with a justification. It just looks right. I can
                        then work on fleshing out my persona by concentrating on learning what
                        life would really be like for a 14th Century English Archer. And that
                        represents in itself a wealth of information to research and learn.

                        I will probably still get that hornbow at some point and when I do,
                        rather than find a justification for why an Englishman has such a bow,
                        I will develop a second persona of a Song Dynasty warrior. And then I
                        can just as much fun researching out everything I need to make that
                        persona as authentic as I can get.

                        Just different ways of looking at it.

                        In Service,
                        James Wolfden
                      • Egil Haraldsson
                        I ended up ordering one of these: http://www.selfbow.com/stock.html#anchor26014356 http://www.selfbow.com/ I ordered the 66 40# Classic one piece Longbow.
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 28, 2009
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                          I ended up ordering one of these:

                          http://www.selfbow.com/stock.html#anchor26014356

                          http://www.selfbow.com/

                          I ordered the 66" 40# Classic one piece Longbow. He is putting 16
                          strand Flemish Twist.

                          It was a little bit more than I wanted to pay but after taking to the
                          bower I believe it will be to my liking. He is making it and should
                          have it ready toward the end of next month. I can't wait to try it out.

                          Egil
                        • atruemark@aol.com
                          Good choice, Egil...I know the bowyer personally and he is a master craftsman. This is a case of getting what you pay for and you ll be most pleased with the
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 28, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Good choice, Egil...I know the bowyer personally and he is a master
                            craftsman. This is a case of getting what you pay for and you'll be most pleased
                            with the quality and shooting characteristics of your new bow.

                            Andras
                            **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
                            steps!
                            (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
                            cemailfooterNO62)


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • atruemark@aol.com
                            I think it s entirely plausible for a trader persona with an interest in archery to want to know about the different archery styles in the areas in which the
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jan 28, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I think it's entirely plausible for a trader persona with an interest in
                              archery to want to know about the different archery styles in the areas in which
                              the trade was conducted. My own persona, that of a 9th century Gotlander
                              opening up trade contacts in Novgorod, would have been fascinated by the local
                              two-wood bows, especially since they were purported to have better shooting
                              characteristics than the simple self bows used for hunting by the
                              Scandinavians. While there is no reason that our forebears wouldn't have been just as
                              prone to homer-ism in their weapon choices (preferring the known over the
                              unknown), it's equally possible that pure curiosity would have allowed for
                              experimentation as well.

                              Andras
                              **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
                              steps!
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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Egil Haraldsson
                              Very true in fact most nations were known for picking up on the weapon technology of those they fought against or traded with. I really don t have any issues
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jan 28, 2009
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                                Very true in fact most nations were known for picking up on the
                                weapon technology of those they fought against or traded with.

                                I really don't have any issues with the horse bow and maybe one day
                                I will try one. I guess my concern was that modern recurves are not
                                concidered in the "Period" list. I have been in my limited SCA life
                                strived toward a more period look both in garb and weapon style. I
                                feel it gives us that mystery and spirit I always enjoy while
                                standing at the line.

                                I really liked the discussion about moving toward more period
                                targets and scoring even if it means working harder on my part. In
                                fact has anyone found a USA vendor for those targets?? If not please
                                post the vendor that you have for them again.

                                It was fun talking to many Bowers and deciding on a bow. I really
                                liked the Black Widow Longbow but was not ready to move to a $1000.00
                                bow. :) Thanks for your advice and insights. I hope to see each of
                                you at Gulf Wars and on the line. I will be at the range often
                                assisting the Range Master.

                                Happy Shooting,
                                Egil



                                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, atruemark@... wrote:
                                >
                                > I think it's entirely plausible for a trader persona with an
                                interest in
                                > archery to want to know about the different archery styles in the
                                areas in which
                                > the trade was conducted. My own persona, that of a 9th century
                                Gotlander
                                > opening up trade contacts in Novgorod, would have been fascinated
                                by the local
                                > two-wood bows, especially since they were purported to have better
                                shooting
                                > characteristics than the simple self bows used for hunting by the
                                > Scandinavians. While there is no reason that our forebears
                                wouldn't have been just as
                                > prone to homer-ism in their weapon choices (preferring the known
                                over the
                                > unknown), it's equally possible that pure curiosity would have
                                allowed for
                                > experimentation as well.
                                >
                                > Andras
                                > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
                                just 2 easy
                                > steps!
                                > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?
                                redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%
                                26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
                                > cemailfooterNO62)
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Janet
                                I ve been very happy with my yew ELB from them for many a year now. I started out with a Dick Palmer longbow with the same draw weight. I soon found that the
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jan 29, 2009
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                                  I've been very happy with my yew ELB from them for many a year now. I
                                  started out with a Dick Palmer longbow with the same draw weight. I
                                  soon found that the yew bow didn't tire me out as quickly as the DP bow
                                  used to. Enjoy!
                                  Erriil


                                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Egil Haraldsson"
                                  <eagleclaws_skyrider@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I ended up ordering one of these:
                                  >
                                  > http://www.selfbow.com/stock.html#anchor26014356
                                  >
                                  > http://www.selfbow.com/
                                  >
                                  > I ordered the 66" 40# Classic one piece Longbow. He is putting 16
                                  > strand Flemish Twist.
                                  >
                                  > It was a little bit more than I wanted to pay but after taking to the
                                  > bower I believe it will be to my liking. He is making it and should
                                  > have it ready toward the end of next month. I can't wait to try it
                                  out.
                                  >
                                  > Egil
                                  >
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