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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Boobs and Bowstrings

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  • Liges
    Forgive me for pointing out something so basic, but has anyone considered her garb? If what she is wearing is designed to lift and push out, it would put them
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
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      Forgive me for pointing out something so basic, but has anyone considered her garb? If what she is wearing is designed to lift and push out, it would put them more in danger.  My Lady wife shoots, and if in regular clothes, has a problem with hitting, if she wears a bodice, she has no problem.
       
      Liges




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Frederick Fenters
      Back when I first started marshalling (dirt was still a NEW THING) a young lady of my acquaintance commented that the Frisbee was the female archer s best
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
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        Back when I first started marshalling (dirt was still a NEW THING) a young
        lady of my acquaintance commented that the Frisbee was the female archer's
        best friend. Especially tucked into her shirt!



        Seriously, try video taping your student to look for what is causing her
        problem. It may be that she needs to draw to her chin instead of under her
        eye, she may be collapsing her bow shoulder, overdrawing (as you mentioned),
        wavering (my term, I mean waving one or both hands during the draw and set),
        or drawing in a horizontally circular motion rather than in a straight line.



        That's all I can think of, off hand.



        Padraig MacRaighne

        Forester of the Greenwood Company



        _____

        From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of McNutt Jr, William R
        Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:48 AM
        To: sca-archery@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Boobs and Bowstrings



        I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
        bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
        we're having trouble sorting it out. I think she may be over-drawing
        and rolling her right shoulder too far back.

        Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?

        Master William, Reluctant Coach

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • loreleiElkins@aol.com
        Greetings to the list from one reasonably well endowed female archer. When I shoot, and when I teach others to shoot, including a good number of women, I
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 15, 2008
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          Greetings to the list from one reasonably well endowed female archer. When
          I shoot, and when I teach others to shoot, including a good number of women,
          I have them draw the bow string to the left edge of their left breast, (for a
          right handed person.) The string should NEVER be drawn so her breast is in
          between the string and down range. OUCH! If they are drawing in front of
          their breast, their stance is way off. Have them stand correctly, shoulders
          back, draw the string only to the back edge of their breast. One thing I find
          helpful to get the right stance is to swing my right hip back just a little.
          This seems to get everything out of the way and my stance nice and straight.

          Its working for me and others I've taught. I'm sure others have different
          suggestions. Your archer friend may want to try a few things and see which
          one works best for her. It is very unhealthy to damage breast tissue and it
          should not happen, even occasionally.

          Lady Lorelei Greenleaf
          Crois Brigte, Sacred Stone, Atlantia
          Phoenix Guard
          NC Regional Marshal
          Sacred Stone Yeoman
          Atlantian Yew Bow


          In a message dated 11/14/2008 10:48:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          mcnutt@... writes:

          I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
          bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
          we're having trouble sorting it out. I think she may be over-drawing
          and rolling her right shoulder too far back.

          Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?

          Master William, Reluctant Coach




          Lorelei
          **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from
          blockbuster.com
          (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michael Grossberg
          ... That s probably because the Greeks glorified the human body, and to depict a nude female without two breasts would be against their vision of beauty and
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 15, 2008
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            -----Original Message-----
            >From: jameswolfden <jameswolfden@...>
            >Sent: Nov 14, 2008 2:59 PM
            >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Boobs and Bowstrings
            >
            >But the legend is that the Amazons removed the right breast and
            >assuming a right handed draw, this would still put the left breast
            >in jeopardy. However, the legends also has it the right breast was
            >removed at an early age to encourage the body to grow the right
            >arm/shoulder muscles rather than develop the breast. In essense, it
            >was a form of pruning the human body.
            >
            >That said, most Greek depictions of Amazons show both breasts intact.
            >
            >In Service,
            >James


            That's probably because the Greeks glorified the human body, and to depict a nude female without two breasts would be against their vision of beauty and perfection.
            Gardr Gunnarsson
          • John and Carol Atkins
            I have worked with a few ladies who have experienced this problem. The solution was really quite simple. If the lady stands with her shoulders perpendicular
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 15, 2008
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              I have worked with a few ladies who have experienced this problem. The
              solution was really quite simple. If the lady stands with her
              shoulders perpendicular to the flight line to the target, begin the
              draw with the bow hand extended towards the target. As she draws the
              bow the string will rest on the target side of the "problem area". I
              have seen many new archers draw incorrectly and suffer the
              consequences. The improper draw, in this case, is to stand in a very
              open stance, draw the bow, then settle back in a manner that causes the
              drawn bow string to include the "problem area" resulting in a painful
              release.

              cog
            • Laura
              Are you sure you don t have this backwards? I have seen women in bodices hit themselves with the bowstring becuase they were so pushed out up front. I have
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 17, 2008
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                Are you sure you don't have this backwards? I have seen women in
                bodices hit themselves with the bowstring becuase they were so pushed
                out up front. I have encountered many cases of garb interference at
                the lines - poufy and / or long flowy sleeves, lots of chains, beads,
                necklaces, as well as bodices pushing the ladies up & out all have
                caused string interference and entanglements. This is just something
                that is not considered by occasional and beginner archers who practice
                only in their mundane clothes. Then they step up to the line once a
                year at Pennsic and discover their garb is causing problems. I often
                invite people to shoot in garb at my archery practices for that very
                reason.
                I am by no means flat chested, and have always used a square stance.
                In almost 50 years of shooting the bow I have not managed to thwack
                myself with the bowstring. I shoot ELB, modern and period recurves
                and do not encounter the problem. I can suggest getting to the basics
                of foot placement and hips to make sure she is using a stance that
                would alleviate the string problem. Foot placement alone is not
                enough - she has to be sure she is not twisting her hips to place her
                torso closer to the string. This is sometimes done by beginner
                archers.

                Laurens


                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Liges <ligessac@...> wrote:
                >
                > Forgive me for pointing out something so basic, but has anyone
                considered her garb? If what she is wearing is designed to lift and
                push out, it would put them more in danger.  My Lady wife shoots, and
                if in regular clothes, has a problem with hitting, if she wears a
                bodice, she has no problem.
                >  
                > Liges
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Nest verch Tangwistel
                I have been running an archery practice for a long time. When I get a new woman come to practice, I just tell her to keep the stance square and bring the
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 17, 2008
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                  I have been running an archery practice for a long time. When I get a new woman come to practice, I just tell her to keep the stance square and bring the string into the side of the breast not across the front. Easy enough if you keep the bow arm shoulder far enough to the front. That simple advice has proved to be just about all that is needed. I can't think of a single example of a whacking at our practice, and from what I have noticed they rarely happen without comment.
                   
                  We hold a couple of practices a year that are designed for people to try out garb. our usual practice is not is garb, but at these it is manditory.
                   
                  Nest

                  --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Laura <Ladybaron@...> wrote:

                  From: Laura <Ladybaron@...>
                  Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Boobs and Bowstrings
                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 4:05 AM






                  Are you sure you don't have this backwards? I have seen women in
                  bodices hit themselves with the bowstring becuase they were so pushed
                  out up front. I have encountered many cases of garb interference at
                  the lines - poufy and / or long flowy sleeves, lots of chains, beads,
                  necklaces, as well as bodices pushing the ladies up & out all have
                  caused string interference and entanglements. This is just something
                  that is not considered by occasional and beginner archers who practice
                  only in their mundane clothes. Then they step up to the line once a
                  year at Pennsic and discover their garb is causing problems. I often
                  invite people to shoot in garb at my archery practices for that very
                  reason.
                  I am by no means flat chested, and have always used a square stance.
                  In almost 50 years of shooting the bow I have not managed to thwack
                  myself with the bowstring. I shoot ELB, modern and period recurves
                  and do not encounter the problem. I can suggest getting to the basics
                  of foot placement and hips to make sure she is using a stance that
                  would alleviate the string problem. Foot placement alone is not
                  enough - she has to be sure she is not twisting her hips to place her
                  torso closer to the string. This is sometimes done by beginner
                  archers.

                  Laurens

                  --- In SCA-Archery@ yahoogroups. com, Liges <ligessac@.. .> wrote:
                  >
                  > Forgive me for pointing out something so basic, but has anyone
                  considered her garb? If what she is wearing is designed to lift and
                  push out, it would put them more in danger.  My Lady wife shoots, and
                  if in regular clothes, has a problem with hitting, if she wears a
                  bodice, she has no problem.
                  >  
                  > Liges
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >


















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • tibbiecroser
                  It might depend on the type of bodice. Many bodices do push the breasts up and out, but some historically styled bodices are designed to flatten the breasts
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 17, 2008
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                    It might depend on the type of bodice. Many bodices do push the
                    breasts up and out, but some historically styled bodices are designed
                    to flatten the breasts and push them off to the sides.

                    For women who feel they need chest protection, fencing and martial
                    arts vendors carry both molded one-piece chest protectors and plastic
                    breast cups that are designed to be inserted into a sports bra.

                    P.S. To introduce myself, I'm Tibbie Croser, a recently authorized
                    (female) rapier fighter in Atlantia who's interested in taking up
                    target archery. I don't anticipate having boob problems myself,
                    because I'm only an A cup.

                    Tibbie Croser, Barony of Storvik, Atlantia

                    In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Laura" <Ladybaron@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Are you sure you don't have this backwards? I have seen women in
                    > bodices hit themselves with the bowstring becuase they were so
                    pushed
                    > out up front. I have encountered many cases of garb interference
                    at
                    > the lines - poufy and / or long flowy sleeves, lots of chains,
                    beads,
                    > necklaces, as well as bodices pushing the ladies up & out all have
                    > caused string interference and entanglements. This is just
                    something
                    > that is not considered by occasional and beginner archers who
                    practice
                    > only in their mundane clothes. Then they step up to the line once
                    a
                    > year at Pennsic and discover their garb is causing problems. I
                    often
                    > invite people to shoot in garb at my archery practices for that
                    very
                    > reason.
                    > I am by no means flat chested, and have always used a square
                    stance.
                    > In almost 50 years of shooting the bow I have not managed to thwack
                    > myself with the bowstring. I shoot ELB, modern and period recurves
                    > and do not encounter the problem. I can suggest getting to the
                    basics
                    > of foot placement and hips to make sure she is using a stance that
                    > would alleviate the string problem. Foot placement alone is not
                    > enough - she has to be sure she is not twisting her hips to place
                    her
                    > torso closer to the string. This is sometimes done by beginner
                    > archers.
                    >
                    > Laurens
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Liges <ligessac@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Forgive me for pointing out something so basic, but has anyone
                    > considered her garb? If what she is wearing is designed to lift and
                    > push out, it would put them more in danger.  My Lady wife shoots,
                    and
                    > if in regular clothes, has a problem with hitting, if she wears a
                    > bodice, she has no problem.
                    > >  
                    > > Liges
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                  • sorchaprechan
                    I d always heard it was the left breast. Anyway, Lady Lorelei s got it, I think. I m well endowed and have been pulling my string back to my cheek, and
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 17, 2008
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                      I'd always heard it was the left breast. Anyway, Lady Lorelei's got
                      it, I think. I'm well endowed and have been pulling my string back to
                      my cheek, and learning to aim has been hellish. And baffling, it seems
                      like such a simple thing to do...

                      Sorcha P.

                      > >But the legend is that the Amazons removed the right breast and
                      > >assuming a right handed draw, this would still put the left breast
                      > >in jeopardy.
                    • Brad Boda d'Aylward
                      Late response I ve read the term stance . I ll refer to their form ....... same thing. It sounds like she has what we refer to as Bow Creep . This pulls the
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 27, 2008
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                        Late response

                        I've read the term 'stance'. I'll refer to their 'form'....... same thing.

                        It sounds like she has what we refer to as 'Bow Creep'. This pulls the bow
                        stave out in front of the body and allows the bow string to come in front of
                        the body. Ladies are notorious for this if they are fighting an overly
                        strong bow weight.

                        For proper form: there should be a *straight* line from the bow hand through
                        the left shoulder to the right shoulder. And then there should be a
                        *straight* line from the arrow tip through the string hand to the right
                        elbow. No break in the string hand. This may actually move her anchor point
                        back on her face from the chin to the edge of the mouth or the jaw bone.

                        Anchor point on the face (string fingers should touch the face, chin, eye,
                        mouth, jaw, etc.) And then *pinch a quarter between the shoulder blades*.
                        Arch the back. Use the back muscles to straighten these two lines to form
                        the 'perfect' triangle. On drawing the string it will come straight into the
                        side of the archer and, upon release, go straight away from the breast. I
                        actually had an 'overly endowed' Lady draw the bottom half of the string
                        over the top half of her breast (light poundage bow)

                        Bow creep allows inconsistancy to enter an archers' form. With proper form
                        we avoid 'titty whack' and you will notice that her arrow groupings will
                        tighten up also. Her scores will go up.

                        Let us know how all this info helps.

                        Brad


                        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Boobs and Bowstrings


                        > I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
                        > bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
                        > we're having trouble sorting it out. I think she may be over-drawing
                        > and rolling her right shoulder too far back.
                        >
                        > Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?
                        >
                        > Master William, Reluctant Coach
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
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