Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Boobs and Bowstrings

Expand Messages
  • McNutt Jr, William R
    I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the bowstring on release. Obviously, there s a problem with her stance, but we re having trouble
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
      I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
      bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
      we're having trouble sorting it out. I think she may be over-drawing
      and rolling her right shoulder too far back.

      Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?

      Master William, Reluctant Coach


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • THL Caedmon Wilson
      The few, um...endowed...women I have had the chance to teach, I had them either shorten their draw...or turn their body so as to avoid breast-string contact.
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
        The few, um...endowed...women I have had the chance to teach, I had
        them either shorten their draw...or turn their body so as to avoid
        breast-string contact. Or switch to crossbow.

        -Caedmon
      • Hon.Lady Arianna OSeaghdha
        I have not encountered that problem, however, One female archer I know, uses a breast shield. That should solve her problem until you can figure out what she s
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
          I have not encountered that problem, however, One female archer I
          know, uses a breast shield. That should solve her problem until you
          can figure out what she's doing wrong and can correct it. Arianna---
          In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "McNutt Jr, William R" <mcnutt@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
          > bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
          > we're having trouble sorting it out. I think she may be over-drawing
          > and rolling her right shoulder too far back.
          >
          > Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?
          >
          > Master William, Reluctant Coach
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • blkknighti@aol.com
          The individual circumstance varies but if the breast is relatively large the string shouldn t be drawn over it. The subjects stance and draw should be adjusted
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
            The individual circumstance varies but if the breast is relatively large the
            string shouldn't be drawn over it. The subjects stance and draw should be
            adjusted to draw so that the string will press against the outside of the left
            breast (if right handed). I had observed this technique taught by Len Cardinale.
            It seems to work well, some even suggest that it serves to stabilize the
            string.

            Richard

            In a message dated 11/14/08 10:54:56 AM, fern718jen@... writes:


            > I have not encountered that problem, however, One female archer I
            > know, uses a breast shield. That should solve her problem until you
            > can figure out what she's doing wrong and can correct it.  Arianna---
            > In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "McNutt Jr, William R" <mcnutt@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
            > > bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
            > > we're having trouble sorting it out.  I think she may be over-drawing
            > > and rolling her right shoulder too far back.
            > > 
            > > Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?
            > > 
            > > Master William, Reluctant Coach
            >




            **************
            Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news &
            more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt
            p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Scott B. Jaqua
            While still a national amature archer shooting for Cal State Long beach, I knew several Olympic caliber ladies that were well endowed. The used a breast
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
              While still a national amature archer shooting for Cal State Long beach,
              I knew several Olympic caliber ladies that were well endowed. The used a
              breast protector or shield. String contact with the breast is not
              always a bad thing. If the sting contacts the side of the breast in a
              proper stance, it can actually serve as an additional reference point
              for the anchor point.

              Rather then adjusting the stance to protect the breast, I would suggest
              finding the "natural' stance and then protect the breast as required.

              The "natural"stance is determined as follows. (This example assumes a
              right handed archer, reverse the results for a left handed archer). Have
              the archer take his or her existing stance. Have them come to a full
              draw and aim as usual. Then while holding the aim, close the eyes. When
              they reopen open the eyes, determine if the aim has drifted to the left
              or the right. If the aim drifted left, close the stance slightly. If it
              drifted right open the stance slightly. Repeat this process until the
              archer can not perceive any drift. Note, any time the anchor point
              changes, this test needs to be repeated. So a solid consistent anchor is
              required for this test to yield the best results.

              Njall

              --
              Scott B. Jaqua
              Hagerson Forge
              www.hagersonforge.com
            • Sheri Rees
              I ve seen some of the responses posted and feel that I should disagree with you and them. She is not necessarily doing anything wrong with her stance, draw, or
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
                I've seen some of the responses posted and feel that I should
                disagree with you and them.
                She is not necessarily doing anything wrong with her stance, draw, or release.
                Watch her closely as she draws and shoots to see if you notice something.

                I remember having a discussion with Master Andras many years ago about stance.
                He kept telling me to stand and draw a certain way.
                I kept saying 'yeah but...' (for obvious reasons to me).
                Master John Bowslayer suggested a slight modification to that stance.
                When I come back to full draw, I shift my hips slightly back from the
                target and my shoulders slightly forward.
                This keeps the bowstring on the target side of the chest, with the
                draw coming up mostly within the arm pit.
                Note - this is not a full crouched hunting stance like my hubby uses,
                just a slight shift, barely noticeable to anyone else on the line.
                This works pretty well for me. I still occasionally straighten up
                enough that I hit something painful, but not often.

                Shadhra



                At 07:47 AM 11/14/2008, you wrote:
                >I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
                >bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
                >we're having trouble sorting it out. I think she may be over-drawing
                >and rolling her right shoulder too far back.
                >
                >Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?
                >
                >Master William, Reluctant Coach
              • eulenhorst@rosesandivy.net
                Hold on just a minute here. These are all good points but not complete or exclusive. First, the term stance needs to be defined. This post and Njall s
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
                  Hold on just a minute here. These are all good points but not complete or exclusive. First, the
                  term "stance" needs to be defined. This post and Njall's both address parts of "stance" but not all of
                  it. Stance consists of many parts, foot position (ala Njall),balance, hip and shoulder position
                  including angle, and head and neck position. In short, all elements of an archer's position prior to
                  drawing. Arm position and specific anchor point then come into play. All of these can be involved
                  here. The following is my process for initially positioning an archer and I seldom see any issues with
                  ladies or men.

                  Start by placing an arrow accross the shooting line in line with the center of the target. Place the toe
                  of the forward foot against the side of the arrow and the center of the instep of the rear foot against
                  the nock maintaining the feet at shoulder width apart. This gives a slightly open stance. Balance the
                  body so that the archer's weight is evenly distributed between both feet and heel and ball of each foot.
                  Adjust the foot placement per Njall's post. Mark foot position with powder or golf tees.

                  Then stand straight with shoulders back and square to the target. The spine should be vertical. Take a
                  full breath and let half of it out, keep the teeth closed but not clenched. Draw to full anchor keeping
                  the arms in a horizontal plane. Establish a comfortable anchor. Once this can be repeatedly obtained
                  and muscle memory has begun to be established actually drawing an arrow can begin.

                  Shifting the hips and/or shoulders as mentioned below is a fine tuning effect which can be used to
                  correct minor issues like this but are much more difficult to keep consistent. Using all these
                  techniques is good to find what works best for the individual and all should be considered.

                  I have found that going back to this often helps clear up small form flaws which creep in. I have also
                  noted that this nearly always brings the string back clear of the breast. If the lady is less endowed,
                  it will clear the breast entirely, if more, it will press against the side of the breast. In the rare
                  case that the string just clearsor brushes the breast, a chest protector or equivalent clothing should be
                  used.

                  Carolus

                  On Fri Nov 14 9:34 , Sheri Rees <s.l.rees@...> sent:

                  > I've seen some of the responses posted and feel that I should
                  >
                  >disagree with you and them.
                  >
                  >She is not necessarily doing anything wrong with her stance, draw, or release.
                  >
                  >Watch her closely as she draws and shoots to see if you notice something.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >I remember having a discussion with Master Andras many years ago about stance.
                  >
                  >He kept telling me to stand and draw a certain way.
                  >
                  >I kept saying 'yeah but...' (for obvious reasons to me).
                  >
                  >Master John Bowslayer suggested a slight modification to that stance.
                  >
                  >When I come back to full draw, I shift my hips slightly back from the
                  >
                  >target and my shoulders slightly forward.
                  >
                  >This keeps the bowstring on the target side of the chest, with the
                  >
                  >draw coming up mostly within the arm pit.
                  >
                  >Note - this is not a full crouched hunting stance like my hubby uses,
                  >
                  >just a slight shift, barely noticeable to anyone else on the line.
                  >
                  >This works pretty well for me. I still occasionally straighten up
                  >
                  >enough that I hit something painful, but not often.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Shadhra
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >At 07:47 AM 11/14/2008, you wrote:
                  >
                  >>I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
                  >
                  >>bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
                  >
                  >>we're having trouble sorting it out. I think she may be over-drawing
                  >
                  >>and rolling her right shoulder too far back.
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>Master William, Reluctant Coach
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Katherine Baldwin
                  Greetings fron Caid I am a female shooter. I tell all my female students the solutation. It s simple actually. Tell her to place the foot on the safe side of
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
                    Greetings fron Caid
                    I am a female shooter. I tell all my female students the solutation. It's
                    simple actually. Tell her to place the foot on the "safe" side of the line
                    about 2" forward of the other foot. If you are a right handed shooter that
                    is the right foot.This creates a Triangle and you miss your breast. Hope
                    this helps. Katherine of Anglesey
                    On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 7:47 AM, McNutt Jr, William R <mcnutt@...>wrote:

                    > I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
                    > bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
                    > we're having trouble sorting it out. I think she may be over-drawing
                    > and rolling her right shoulder too far back.
                    >
                    > Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?
                    >
                    > Master William, Reluctant Coach
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Michael Grossberg
                    ... The Amazons of ancient Greece were purported to employ a proceedure which would solve this problem, but I believe that today s female archer might find it
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
                      -----Original Message-----
                      >From: Katherine Baldwin <misskofa@...>
                      >Sent: Nov 14, 2008 1:10 PM
                      >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Boobs and Bowstrings

                      The Amazons of ancient Greece were purported to employ a proceedure which would solve this problem, but I believe that today's female archer might find it just a bit....ahhhh..."extreme"?! :(
                      Gardr Gunnarsson


                      >
                      >Greetings fron Caid
                      >I am a female shooter. I tell all my female students the solutation. It's
                      >simple actually. Tell her to place the foot on the "safe" side of the line
                      >about 2" forward of the other foot. If you are a right handed shooter that
                      >is the right foot.This creates a Triangle and you miss your breast. Hope
                      >this helps. Katherine of Anglesey
                      >On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 7:47 AM, McNutt Jr, William R <mcnutt@...>wrote:
                      >
                      >> I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
                      >> bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
                      >> we're having trouble sorting it out. I think she may be over-drawing
                      >> and rolling her right shoulder too far back.
                      >>
                      >> Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?
                      >>
                      >> Master William, Reluctant Coach
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Eadric Anstapa
                      I have come across this with a few women I have coached. My experience has been to remind them that the string should be drawn into the breast and not around
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
                        I have come across this with a few women I have coached.

                        My experience has been to remind them that the string should be drawn
                        into the breast and not around the breast. The stance may need to be
                        adjusted to accommodate that.

                        As some have pointed are there are chest guards for women but they are
                        not designed to keep the string for hitting the breast. They are
                        designed so spread and soften the pressure from the string on the
                        breast. The prolonged repetition of pressure from the bowstring can
                        lead to the formation of a lump within the fatty tissue, which is
                        clinically difficult to tell apart from cancer tissue without a biopsy.

                        My experience has show that the problem of the string striking the
                        chest can often be corrected with a modified stance.

                        We all know that there are 4 basic stances for traditional standing
                        target archery.

                        The Even or Square stance where both feet are in a straight line square
                        with the shoulders. This is the stance most often taught to new archers
                        as it is the easiest to reproduce ans is very natural for many people.
                        It also makes good use of the back muscles for drawing the string.
                        However it has disadvantages that it provides the smallest base of
                        support and is therefore the least sturdy. This stance provides a
                        relatively low amount of string clearance against the chest and can be
                        troublesome for large chested shooters.

                        The Close stance is where the front foot (foot under the bow hand) is
                        moved forward. This provides a more stable support base and gives
                        better alignment of the arm and shoulder in a direct line to the
                        target. However it tends to encourage the archer the lean away form the
                        target and to overdraw the arrow. It also reduces string clearance even
                        more and the string may strike against the body. Instinctive archers
                        often have a very closed stance.

                        The problems you archer may be having might be because they have a
                        naturally Closed stance or because the Even stance just isn't working
                        well for their body style

                        Then there is the Open Stance where the front foot is moved back a bit.
                        This provides added stability over the Even stance i n the same way that
                        the Closed stance does but it also reduces the tendency to lean toward
                        the target and improves string clearance. The downside is that it does
                        not make as good a use of the back muscles and requires more arm
                        strength with is something that some women lacking arm strength might
                        find troublesome. Also because the arm is used more and the back less
                        it tends to make the upper body twist towards the target.

                        Without actually coaching your student myself, I might suggest that a
                        more open stance be tried while making sure that they have a bow that
                        they can draw without difficulty and can maintain good upper body
                        alignment. I have successfully helped women who have had trouble with
                        the string striking their breast by having them Open their stance some.
                        An Open stance is taught to many beginning archers and in fact many
                        coaches strongly recommend that beginning archers start with an Open stance.

                        Then finally ...

                        The Oblique stance is where the front foot is pointed about 45 degrees
                        toward the target rather than being kept square. This is used mainly by
                        experienced and expert archers as it is the hardest to maintain and
                        reproduce. This gives the greatest amount of clearance for the bow
                        string, gives the archer the greatest amount of target visibility,
                        provides a great amount of body stability in high winds, and keeps the
                        body in very good equilibrium. Almost never taught to new archers
                        because it can be so hard to maintain.

                        Regards,

                        -EA


                        McNutt Jr, William R wrote:
                        > I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
                        > bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
                        > we're having trouble sorting it out. I think she may be over-drawing
                        > and rolling her right shoulder too far back.
                        >
                        > Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?
                        >
                        > Master William, Reluctant Coach
                        >
                        >
                      • James Koch
                        Gentlemen and Ladies, ... As a manufacturer of archery equipment, this sounds like an interesting armoring opportunity. Period documentation anyone? ... Jim
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
                          Gentlemen and Ladies,
                          >

                          >While still a national amature archer shooting for Cal State Long beach,
                          >I knew several Olympic caliber ladies that were well endowed. The used a
                          >breast protector or shield. String contact with the breast is not
                          >always a bad thing. If the sting contacts the side of the breast in a
                          >proper stance, it can actually serve as an additional reference point
                          >for the anchor point.
                          >
                          As a manufacturer of archery equipment, this sounds like an
                          interesting armoring opportunity. Period documentation anyone?
                          >
                          Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                        • jameswolfden
                          But the legend is that the Amazons removed the right breast and assuming a right handed draw, this would still put the left breast in jeopardy. However, the
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
                            But the legend is that the Amazons removed the right breast and
                            assuming a right handed draw, this would still put the left breast
                            in jeopardy. However, the legends also has it the right breast was
                            removed at an early age to encourage the body to grow the right
                            arm/shoulder muscles rather than develop the breast. In essense, it
                            was a form of pruning the human body.

                            That said, most Greek depictions of Amazons show both breasts intact.

                            In Service,
                            James

                            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Michael Grossberg <geejayem@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > The Amazons of ancient Greece were purported to employ a
                            proceedure which would solve this problem, but I believe that
                            today's female archer might find it just a
                            bit....ahhhh..."extreme"?! :(
                            > Gardr Gunnarsson
                            >
                          • Liges
                            Forgive me for pointing out something so basic, but has anyone considered her garb? If what she is wearing is designed to lift and push out, it would put them
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
                              Forgive me for pointing out something so basic, but has anyone considered her garb? If what she is wearing is designed to lift and push out, it would put them more in danger.  My Lady wife shoots, and if in regular clothes, has a problem with hitting, if she wears a bodice, she has no problem.
                               
                              Liges




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Frederick Fenters
                              Back when I first started marshalling (dirt was still a NEW THING) a young lady of my acquaintance commented that the Frisbee was the female archer s best
                              Message 14 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
                                Back when I first started marshalling (dirt was still a NEW THING) a young
                                lady of my acquaintance commented that the Frisbee was the female archer's
                                best friend. Especially tucked into her shirt!



                                Seriously, try video taping your student to look for what is causing her
                                problem. It may be that she needs to draw to her chin instead of under her
                                eye, she may be collapsing her bow shoulder, overdrawing (as you mentioned),
                                wavering (my term, I mean waving one or both hands during the draw and set),
                                or drawing in a horizontally circular motion rather than in a straight line.



                                That's all I can think of, off hand.



                                Padraig MacRaighne

                                Forester of the Greenwood Company



                                _____

                                From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of McNutt Jr, William R
                                Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:48 AM
                                To: sca-archery@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [SCA-Archery] Boobs and Bowstrings



                                I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
                                bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
                                we're having trouble sorting it out. I think she may be over-drawing
                                and rolling her right shoulder too far back.

                                Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?

                                Master William, Reluctant Coach

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • loreleiElkins@aol.com
                                Greetings to the list from one reasonably well endowed female archer. When I shoot, and when I teach others to shoot, including a good number of women, I
                                Message 15 of 22 , Nov 15, 2008
                                  Greetings to the list from one reasonably well endowed female archer. When
                                  I shoot, and when I teach others to shoot, including a good number of women,
                                  I have them draw the bow string to the left edge of their left breast, (for a
                                  right handed person.) The string should NEVER be drawn so her breast is in
                                  between the string and down range. OUCH! If they are drawing in front of
                                  their breast, their stance is way off. Have them stand correctly, shoulders
                                  back, draw the string only to the back edge of their breast. One thing I find
                                  helpful to get the right stance is to swing my right hip back just a little.
                                  This seems to get everything out of the way and my stance nice and straight.

                                  Its working for me and others I've taught. I'm sure others have different
                                  suggestions. Your archer friend may want to try a few things and see which
                                  one works best for her. It is very unhealthy to damage breast tissue and it
                                  should not happen, even occasionally.

                                  Lady Lorelei Greenleaf
                                  Crois Brigte, Sacred Stone, Atlantia
                                  Phoenix Guard
                                  NC Regional Marshal
                                  Sacred Stone Yeoman
                                  Atlantian Yew Bow


                                  In a message dated 11/14/2008 10:48:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                  mcnutt@... writes:

                                  I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
                                  bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
                                  we're having trouble sorting it out. I think she may be over-drawing
                                  and rolling her right shoulder too far back.

                                  Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?

                                  Master William, Reluctant Coach




                                  Lorelei
                                  **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from
                                  blockbuster.com
                                  (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer)


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Michael Grossberg
                                  ... That s probably because the Greeks glorified the human body, and to depict a nude female without two breasts would be against their vision of beauty and
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Nov 15, 2008
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    >From: jameswolfden <jameswolfden@...>
                                    >Sent: Nov 14, 2008 2:59 PM
                                    >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Boobs and Bowstrings
                                    >
                                    >But the legend is that the Amazons removed the right breast and
                                    >assuming a right handed draw, this would still put the left breast
                                    >in jeopardy. However, the legends also has it the right breast was
                                    >removed at an early age to encourage the body to grow the right
                                    >arm/shoulder muscles rather than develop the breast. In essense, it
                                    >was a form of pruning the human body.
                                    >
                                    >That said, most Greek depictions of Amazons show both breasts intact.
                                    >
                                    >In Service,
                                    >James


                                    That's probably because the Greeks glorified the human body, and to depict a nude female without two breasts would be against their vision of beauty and perfection.
                                    Gardr Gunnarsson
                                  • John and Carol Atkins
                                    I have worked with a few ladies who have experienced this problem. The solution was really quite simple. If the lady stands with her shoulders perpendicular
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Nov 15, 2008
                                      I have worked with a few ladies who have experienced this problem. The
                                      solution was really quite simple. If the lady stands with her
                                      shoulders perpendicular to the flight line to the target, begin the
                                      draw with the bow hand extended towards the target. As she draws the
                                      bow the string will rest on the target side of the "problem area". I
                                      have seen many new archers draw incorrectly and suffer the
                                      consequences. The improper draw, in this case, is to stand in a very
                                      open stance, draw the bow, then settle back in a manner that causes the
                                      drawn bow string to include the "problem area" resulting in a painful
                                      release.

                                      cog
                                    • Laura
                                      Are you sure you don t have this backwards? I have seen women in bodices hit themselves with the bowstring becuase they were so pushed out up front. I have
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Nov 17, 2008
                                        Are you sure you don't have this backwards? I have seen women in
                                        bodices hit themselves with the bowstring becuase they were so pushed
                                        out up front. I have encountered many cases of garb interference at
                                        the lines - poufy and / or long flowy sleeves, lots of chains, beads,
                                        necklaces, as well as bodices pushing the ladies up & out all have
                                        caused string interference and entanglements. This is just something
                                        that is not considered by occasional and beginner archers who practice
                                        only in their mundane clothes. Then they step up to the line once a
                                        year at Pennsic and discover their garb is causing problems. I often
                                        invite people to shoot in garb at my archery practices for that very
                                        reason.
                                        I am by no means flat chested, and have always used a square stance.
                                        In almost 50 years of shooting the bow I have not managed to thwack
                                        myself with the bowstring. I shoot ELB, modern and period recurves
                                        and do not encounter the problem. I can suggest getting to the basics
                                        of foot placement and hips to make sure she is using a stance that
                                        would alleviate the string problem. Foot placement alone is not
                                        enough - she has to be sure she is not twisting her hips to place her
                                        torso closer to the string. This is sometimes done by beginner
                                        archers.

                                        Laurens


                                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Liges <ligessac@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Forgive me for pointing out something so basic, but has anyone
                                        considered her garb? If what she is wearing is designed to lift and
                                        push out, it would put them more in danger.  My Lady wife shoots, and
                                        if in regular clothes, has a problem with hitting, if she wears a
                                        bodice, she has no problem.
                                        >  
                                        > Liges
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • Nest verch Tangwistel
                                        I have been running an archery practice for a long time. When I get a new woman come to practice, I just tell her to keep the stance square and bring the
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Nov 17, 2008
                                          I have been running an archery practice for a long time. When I get a new woman come to practice, I just tell her to keep the stance square and bring the string into the side of the breast not across the front. Easy enough if you keep the bow arm shoulder far enough to the front. That simple advice has proved to be just about all that is needed. I can't think of a single example of a whacking at our practice, and from what I have noticed they rarely happen without comment.
                                           
                                          We hold a couple of practices a year that are designed for people to try out garb. our usual practice is not is garb, but at these it is manditory.
                                           
                                          Nest

                                          --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Laura <Ladybaron@...> wrote:

                                          From: Laura <Ladybaron@...>
                                          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Boobs and Bowstrings
                                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 4:05 AM






                                          Are you sure you don't have this backwards? I have seen women in
                                          bodices hit themselves with the bowstring becuase they were so pushed
                                          out up front. I have encountered many cases of garb interference at
                                          the lines - poufy and / or long flowy sleeves, lots of chains, beads,
                                          necklaces, as well as bodices pushing the ladies up & out all have
                                          caused string interference and entanglements. This is just something
                                          that is not considered by occasional and beginner archers who practice
                                          only in their mundane clothes. Then they step up to the line once a
                                          year at Pennsic and discover their garb is causing problems. I often
                                          invite people to shoot in garb at my archery practices for that very
                                          reason.
                                          I am by no means flat chested, and have always used a square stance.
                                          In almost 50 years of shooting the bow I have not managed to thwack
                                          myself with the bowstring. I shoot ELB, modern and period recurves
                                          and do not encounter the problem. I can suggest getting to the basics
                                          of foot placement and hips to make sure she is using a stance that
                                          would alleviate the string problem. Foot placement alone is not
                                          enough - she has to be sure she is not twisting her hips to place her
                                          torso closer to the string. This is sometimes done by beginner
                                          archers.

                                          Laurens

                                          --- In SCA-Archery@ yahoogroups. com, Liges <ligessac@.. .> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Forgive me for pointing out something so basic, but has anyone
                                          considered her garb? If what she is wearing is designed to lift and
                                          push out, it would put them more in danger.  My Lady wife shoots, and
                                          if in regular clothes, has a problem with hitting, if she wears a
                                          bodice, she has no problem.
                                          >  
                                          > Liges
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >


















                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • tibbiecroser
                                          It might depend on the type of bodice. Many bodices do push the breasts up and out, but some historically styled bodices are designed to flatten the breasts
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Nov 17, 2008
                                            It might depend on the type of bodice. Many bodices do push the
                                            breasts up and out, but some historically styled bodices are designed
                                            to flatten the breasts and push them off to the sides.

                                            For women who feel they need chest protection, fencing and martial
                                            arts vendors carry both molded one-piece chest protectors and plastic
                                            breast cups that are designed to be inserted into a sports bra.

                                            P.S. To introduce myself, I'm Tibbie Croser, a recently authorized
                                            (female) rapier fighter in Atlantia who's interested in taking up
                                            target archery. I don't anticipate having boob problems myself,
                                            because I'm only an A cup.

                                            Tibbie Croser, Barony of Storvik, Atlantia

                                            In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Laura" <Ladybaron@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Are you sure you don't have this backwards? I have seen women in
                                            > bodices hit themselves with the bowstring becuase they were so
                                            pushed
                                            > out up front. I have encountered many cases of garb interference
                                            at
                                            > the lines - poufy and / or long flowy sleeves, lots of chains,
                                            beads,
                                            > necklaces, as well as bodices pushing the ladies up & out all have
                                            > caused string interference and entanglements. This is just
                                            something
                                            > that is not considered by occasional and beginner archers who
                                            practice
                                            > only in their mundane clothes. Then they step up to the line once
                                            a
                                            > year at Pennsic and discover their garb is causing problems. I
                                            often
                                            > invite people to shoot in garb at my archery practices for that
                                            very
                                            > reason.
                                            > I am by no means flat chested, and have always used a square
                                            stance.
                                            > In almost 50 years of shooting the bow I have not managed to thwack
                                            > myself with the bowstring. I shoot ELB, modern and period recurves
                                            > and do not encounter the problem. I can suggest getting to the
                                            basics
                                            > of foot placement and hips to make sure she is using a stance that
                                            > would alleviate the string problem. Foot placement alone is not
                                            > enough - she has to be sure she is not twisting her hips to place
                                            her
                                            > torso closer to the string. This is sometimes done by beginner
                                            > archers.
                                            >
                                            > Laurens
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Liges <ligessac@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Forgive me for pointing out something so basic, but has anyone
                                            > considered her garb? If what she is wearing is designed to lift and
                                            > push out, it would put them more in danger.  My Lady wife shoots,
                                            and
                                            > if in regular clothes, has a problem with hitting, if she wears a
                                            > bodice, she has no problem.
                                            > >  
                                            > > Liges
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • sorchaprechan
                                            I d always heard it was the left breast. Anyway, Lady Lorelei s got it, I think. I m well endowed and have been pulling my string back to my cheek, and
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Nov 17, 2008
                                              I'd always heard it was the left breast. Anyway, Lady Lorelei's got
                                              it, I think. I'm well endowed and have been pulling my string back to
                                              my cheek, and learning to aim has been hellish. And baffling, it seems
                                              like such a simple thing to do...

                                              Sorcha P.

                                              > >But the legend is that the Amazons removed the right breast and
                                              > >assuming a right handed draw, this would still put the left breast
                                              > >in jeopardy.
                                            • Brad Boda d'Aylward
                                              Late response I ve read the term stance . I ll refer to their form ....... same thing. It sounds like she has what we refer to as Bow Creep . This pulls the
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Nov 27, 2008
                                                Late response

                                                I've read the term 'stance'. I'll refer to their 'form'....... same thing.

                                                It sounds like she has what we refer to as 'Bow Creep'. This pulls the bow
                                                stave out in front of the body and allows the bow string to come in front of
                                                the body. Ladies are notorious for this if they are fighting an overly
                                                strong bow weight.

                                                For proper form: there should be a *straight* line from the bow hand through
                                                the left shoulder to the right shoulder. And then there should be a
                                                *straight* line from the arrow tip through the string hand to the right
                                                elbow. No break in the string hand. This may actually move her anchor point
                                                back on her face from the chin to the edge of the mouth or the jaw bone.

                                                Anchor point on the face (string fingers should touch the face, chin, eye,
                                                mouth, jaw, etc.) And then *pinch a quarter between the shoulder blades*.
                                                Arch the back. Use the back muscles to straighten these two lines to form
                                                the 'perfect' triangle. On drawing the string it will come straight into the
                                                side of the archer and, upon release, go straight away from the breast. I
                                                actually had an 'overly endowed' Lady draw the bottom half of the string
                                                over the top half of her breast (light poundage bow)

                                                Bow creep allows inconsistancy to enter an archers' form. With proper form
                                                we avoid 'titty whack' and you will notice that her arrow groupings will
                                                tighten up also. Her scores will go up.

                                                Let us know how all this info helps.

                                                Brad


                                                Subject: [SCA-Archery] Boobs and Bowstrings


                                                > I have a student who complains of hitting her left breast with the
                                                > bowstring on release. Obviously, there's a problem with her stance, but
                                                > we're having trouble sorting it out. I think she may be over-drawing
                                                > and rolling her right shoulder too far back.
                                                >
                                                > Has anyone else run into this when teaching women?
                                                >
                                                > Master William, Reluctant Coach
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >
                                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.