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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: flaming arrow ASAP

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  • Robert Maddison
    thats the design they used on the show,the history expert said it was the pattern used by the romans to burn out the Celts ( the ba****ds) Llywyllyn ...
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 2, 2008
      thats the design they used on the show,the history "expert" said it was the
      pattern used by the romans to burn out the Celts ( the ba****ds)
      Llywyllyn

      On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Cian of Storvik <firespiter@...>wrote:

      > Hector Cole in the UK makes a "flame cage" arrow point. Not sure of
      > it's provenance, but I've heard a lot of references to them.
      >
      > Here's a pic:
      > http://www.hectorcoleironwork.com/images/cage%20fire.gif
      >
      > -Cian
      >
      > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com <SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > "Robert Maddison" <llywylyn@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > check out the military channel website, there is show there called
      > weapons
      > > masters that did flaming arrow off a roman scorpion. they used a
      > cage like
      > > point filled with pitch. the idea may be adaptable to easier to get
      > > flammable materials.
      > > Llywyllyn
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sandra
      Anyone try jet feul? Maybe it will stay lit while the arrow is in flight? Just a thought, never tried but then again the way gas prices are it might be
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 2, 2008
        Anyone try jet feul? Maybe it will stay lit while the arrow is in
        flight? Just a thought, never tried but then again the way gas prices
        are it might be expensive to test. I think somewhere I read that
        there's a small amount they put in cigarette's too (ever wonder why
        they stay lit even in wind?) Maybe that's a myth but I don't smoke
        either way!

        ~Rohesia
      • blkknighti@aol.com
        I think your thinking of Saltpetre ( potassium nitrate) which is an ingredient of gunpowder and is used to make things like incense, rope and cigarettes to
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 2, 2008
          I think your thinking of Saltpetre ( potassium nitrate) which is an
          ingredient of gunpowder and is used to make things like incense, rope and cigarettes to
          keep these items from going out and controlling the burn. May be helpful with
          a fire arrow....
          Richard
          In a message dated 10/2/08 12:34:23 PM, sandra.rangel16@... writes:


          > Anyone try jet feul? Maybe it will stay lit while the arrow is in
          > flight? Just a thought, never tried but then again the way gas prices
          > are it might be expensive to test. I think somewhere I read that
          > there's a small amount they put in cigarette's too (ever wonder why
          > they stay lit even in wind?) Maybe that's a myth but I don't smoke
          > either way!
          >
          > ~Rohesia
          >
          >




          **************
          Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
          challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
          calculators.
          (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • James Koch
          I tend to agree regarding using saltpetre. I used to soak cotton rope in a solution of saltpetre and allow it to dry to make slow match. Once lit he slow
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 2, 2008
            I tend to agree regarding using saltpetre. I used to soak cotton
            rope in a solution of saltpetre and allow it to dry to make slow
            match. Once lit he slow match would smoulder in still air and glow
            brightly in a strong wind. Potassium Nitrate "Chile Saltpeter" works
            best since it is less hydrophilic than sodium nitrate. If a cloth
            was treated with saltpetre and then soaked in naptha, once lit it
            would difficult to blow out.
            >
            Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
            >
            >
            > At 02:34 PM 10/2/2008, you wrote:

            >I think your thinking of Saltpetre ( potassium nitrate) which is an
            >ingredient of gunpowder and is used to make things like incense,
            >rope and cigarettes to
            >keep these items from going out and controlling the burn. May be helpful with
            >a fire arrow....
            >Richard
            >In a message dated 10/2/08 12:34:23 PM,
            ><mailto:sandra.rangel16%40yahoo.com>sandra.rangel16@... writes:
            >
            > > Anyone try jet feul? Maybe it will stay lit while the arrow is in
            > > flight? Just a thought, never tried but then again the way gas prices
            > > are it might be expensive to test. I think somewhere I read that
            > > there's a small amount they put in cigarette's too (ever wonder why
            > > they stay lit even in wind?) Maybe that's a myth but I don't smoke
            > > either way!
            > >
            > > ~Rohesia
            > >
            > >
            >
            >**************
            >Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
            >challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
            >calculators.
            >(<http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001>http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • 'Merry' Toirdhealbhach Mirywoder Lutre
            Heck, if you re gonna do that, why not use magnesium :) If you can get it lit, you wouldn t be able to blow it out regardless.... Certainly would make for
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 2, 2008
              Heck, if you're gonna do that, why not use magnesium :) If you can
              get it lit, you wouldn't be able to blow it out regardless.... Certainly
              would make for an impressive flame :)

              James Koch wrote:
              > I tend to agree regarding using saltpetre. I used to soak cotton
              > rope in a solution of saltpetre and allow it to dry to make slow
              > match. Once lit he slow match would smoulder in still air and glow
              > brightly in a strong wind. Potassium Nitrate "Chile Saltpeter" works
              > best since it is less hydrophilic than sodium nitrate. If a cloth
              > was treated with saltpetre and then soaked in naptha, once lit it
              > would difficult to blow out.
              > >
              > Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
              > >
              > >
              > > At 02:34 PM 10/2/2008, you wrote:
              >
              >
              >> I think your thinking of Saltpetre ( potassium nitrate) which is an
              >> ingredient of gunpowder and is used to make things like incense,
              >> rope and cigarettes to
              >> keep these items from going out and controlling the burn. May be helpful with
              >> a fire arrow....
              >> Richard
              >> In a message dated 10/2/08 12:34:23 PM,
              >> <mailto:sandra.rangel16%40yahoo.com>sandra.rangel16@... writes:
              >>
              >>
              >>> Anyone try jet feul? Maybe it will stay lit while the arrow is in
              >>> flight? Just a thought, never tried but then again the way gas prices
              >>> are it might be expensive to test. I think somewhere I read that
              >>> there's a small amount they put in cigarette's too (ever wonder why
              >>> they stay lit even in wind?) Maybe that's a myth but I don't smoke
              >>> either way!
              >>>
              >>> ~Rohesia
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >> **************
              >> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
              >> challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
              >> calculators.
              >> (<http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001>http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              >

              --

              // Merry

              ----------
              "Merry" Toirdhealbhach Mirywoder Lutre AoA:071013 Torse:080906
              Shire of Standing Stones; Formerly: Philippe Sebastian LeLutre
              Christian M. Cepel --- 573.999.2370 --- Columbia, MO
              http://Thistledowne.org/ http://ShireOfStandingStones.org/
              ICQ:12384980 YIM/AOL:Bramblethorne MSN:Merry@ShireOfS.....

              'Toirdhealbhach' anglicized Tirloughe (1576), modernly 'Turlough',
              pronounced 'TIR' or 'TUR' + 'low', 'logh', 'lock', or 'loch'



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • 'Merry' Toirdhealbhach Mirywoder Lutre
              *Angry Villager *: There must be another way of doing the credits. *Fire Marshal *:
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 2, 2008
                *Angry Villager <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0048589/>*: There must be
                another way of doing the credits.
                *Fire Marshal <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0720890/>*: That's right.
                Every time they make a Robin Hood movie, they burn our village down!
                ------------------------------------------------------------------------


                Robert Maddison wrote:
                > thats the design they used on the show,the history "expert" said it was the
                > pattern used by the romans to burn out the Celts ( the ba****ds)
                > Llywyllyn
                >
                > On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Cian of Storvik <firespiter@...>wrote:
                >
                >
                >> Hector Cole in the UK makes a "flame cage" arrow point. Not sure of
                >> it's provenance, but I've heard a lot of references to them.
                >>
                >> Here's a pic:
                >> http://www.hectorcoleironwork.com/images/cage%20fire.gif
                >>
                >> -Cian
                >>
                >> --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com <SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>,
                >> "Robert Maddison" <llywylyn@...>
                >> wrote:
                >>
                >>> check out the military channel website, there is show there called
                >>>
                >> weapons
                >>
                >>> masters that did flaming arrow off a roman scorpion. they used a
                >>>
                >> cage like
                >>
                >>> point filled with pitch. the idea may be adaptable to easier to get
                >>> flammable materials.
                >>> Llywyllyn
                >>>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                >

                --

                // Merry

                ----------
                "Merry" Toirdhealbhach Mirywoder Lutre AoA:071013 Torse:080906
                Shire of Standing Stones; Formerly: Philippe Sebastian LeLutre
                Christian M. Cepel --- 573.999.2370 --- Columbia, MO
                http://Thistledowne.org/ http://ShireOfStandingStones.org/
                ICQ:12384980 YIM/AOL:Bramblethorne MSN:Merry@ShireOfS.....

                'Toirdhealbhach' anglicized Tirloughe (1576), modernly 'Turlough',
                pronounced 'TIR' or 'TUR' + 'low', 'logh', 'lock', or 'loch'



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Adrian
                ... I would agree with the magnesium. My suggestion: a strip from a white terrycloth towel soaked in either a) outdoor lamp oil, b) a 50/50 combination of lamp
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 2, 2008
                  > Heck, if you're gonna do that, why not use magnesium :) If you
                  > can get it lit, you wouldn't be able to blow it out regardless....
                  > Certainly would make for an impressive flame :)

                  I would agree with the magnesium.

                  My suggestion: a strip from a white terrycloth towel soaked in either
                  a) outdoor lamp oil, b) a 50/50 combination of lamp oil and lighter
                  fluid, or c) Coleman camp fuel; wrap the terrycloth strip onto the
                  arrow shaft with wire. The arrow would be point-heavy, though.
                • arturdubh
                  Dave; There is a picture of some specially-made arrow heads, for use with flame arrows , in the Photos section of the group; for some reason I can t connect
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 2, 2008
                    Dave;

                    There is a picture of some specially-made arrow heads, for use
                    with "flame arrows", in the "Photos" section of the group; for some
                    reason I can't connect to the page right now, probably yet
                    another "Yahoo! glitch"... Anyway, they seem to be made of clay, with
                    a cavity similar to that of a whstling arrow, designed to break open
                    on impact. Perhaps the flammable material was shoved inside, soaked
                    with naptha (or any other substance such as kerosene), lit and sent
                    on its way.

                    In any case, they look to be extremely efficient.

                    --Artúr


                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <gargoyle1058@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I need any and all info that you may have on ways to make a
                    workable flaming arrow ASAP modern or otherwise for use in any type
                    of bow including crossbows. This is not for a SCA project. Thank
                    you, Gar
                    >
                  • jameswolfden
                    If you mean these ones, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA- Archery/photos/album/965722480/pic/2050126555/view?
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 3, 2008
                      If you mean these ones,

                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-
                      Archery/photos/album/965722480/pic/2050126555/view?
                      picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc

                      They are Chinese whistling fire arrows from Stephen Selby's display
                      in Hong Kong. They are made of iron not clay. Oil and pitch soaked
                      cloth would be wrapped above the barbs in the arrow. The barbs would
                      prevent the flaming material from sliding back down the shaft on
                      release.

                      Here is a write up on whistling arrows from the ATARN site that also
                      includes a bit on the fire arrows.

                      http://www.atarn.org/chinese/whistle/whistle.htm


                      In Service,
                      James Wolfden

                      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "arturdubh" <nasionnaich@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Dave;
                      >
                      > There is a picture of some specially-made arrow heads, for use
                      > with "flame arrows", in the "Photos" section of the group; for
                      some
                      > reason I can't connect to the page right now, probably yet
                      > another "Yahoo! glitch"... Anyway, they seem to be made of clay,
                      with
                      > a cavity similar to that of a whstling arrow, designed to break
                      open
                      > on impact. Perhaps the flammable material was shoved inside,
                      soaked
                      > with naptha (or any other substance such as kerosene), lit and
                      sent
                      > on its way.
                      >
                      > In any case, they look to be extremely efficient.
                      >
                      > --Artúr
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <gargoyle1058@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I need any and all info that you may have on ways to make a
                      > workable flaming arrow ASAP modern or otherwise for use in any
                      type
                      > of bow including crossbows. This is not for a SCA project. Thank
                      > you, Gar
                      > >
                      >
                    • DavidP005
                      I use a mixture of saltpetre, as I also make my own slow matches for my matchlock rifle, Pine Tar and boild linseed oil in my flaming arrows. I actually use
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 3, 2008
                        I use a mixture of saltpetre, as I also make my own slow matches for
                        my matchlock rifle, Pine Tar and boild linseed oil in my flaming
                        arrows. I actually use the linseed oil to cut the Pine Tar to soak a
                        piece of cloth that I bind to the arrow. I've found the saltpetre
                        helps keep the mixture going in flight.

                        Tex

                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, 'Merry' Toirdhealbhach Mirywoder
                        Lutre <Merry@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Heck, if you're gonna do that, why not use magnesium :) If you
                        can
                        > get it lit, you wouldn't be able to blow it out regardless....
                        Certainly
                        > would make for an impressive flame :)
                        >
                        > James Koch wrote:
                        > > I tend to agree regarding using saltpetre. I used to soak cotton
                        > > rope in a solution of saltpetre and allow it to dry to make slow
                        > > match. Once lit he slow match would smoulder in still air and
                        glow
                        > > brightly in a strong wind. Potassium Nitrate "Chile Saltpeter"
                        works
                        > > best since it is less hydrophilic than sodium nitrate. If a
                        cloth
                        > > was treated with saltpetre and then soaked in naptha, once lit it
                        > > would difficult to blow out.
                        > > >
                        > > Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > At 02:34 PM 10/2/2008, you wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >> I think your thinking of Saltpetre ( potassium nitrate) which is
                        an
                        > >> ingredient of gunpowder and is used to make things like incense,
                        > >> rope and cigarettes to
                        > >> keep these items from going out and controlling the burn. May be
                        helpful with
                        > >> a fire arrow....
                        > >> Richard
                        > >> In a message dated 10/2/08 12:34:23 PM,
                        > >> <mailto:sandra.rangel16%40yahoo.com>sandra.rangel16@... writes:
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>> Anyone try jet feul? Maybe it will stay lit while the arrow is
                        in
                        > >>> flight? Just a thought, never tried but then again the way gas
                        prices
                        > >>> are it might be expensive to test. I think somewhere I read that
                        > >>> there's a small amount they put in cigarette's too (ever wonder
                        why
                        > >>> they stay lit even in wind?) Maybe that's a myth but I don't
                        smoke
                        > >>> either way!
                        > >>>
                        > >>> ~Rohesia
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >> **************
                        > >> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
                        > >> challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and
                        information, tips and
                        > >> calculators.
                        > >> (<http://www.walletpop.com/?
                        NCID=emlcntuswall00000001>http://www.walletpop.com/?
                        NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
                        > >>
                        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > --
                        >
                        > // Merry
                        >
                        > ----------
                        > "Merry" Toirdhealbhach Mirywoder Lutre AoA:071013 Torse:080906
                        > Shire of Standing Stones; Formerly: Philippe Sebastian LeLutre
                        > Christian M. Cepel --- 573.999.2370 --- Columbia, MO
                        > http://Thistledowne.org/ http://ShireOfStandingStones.org/
                        > ICQ:12384980 YIM/AOL:Bramblethorne MSN:Merry@ShireOfS.....
                        >
                        > 'Toirdhealbhach' anglicized Tirloughe (1576), modernly 'Turlough',
                        > pronounced 'TIR' or 'TUR' + 'low', 'logh', 'lock', or 'loch'
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • arturdubh
                        Well, a person can, indeed, learn something new every day if they aren t careful. :-) Thanks for the correction -- and for providing it without being
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 3, 2008
                          Well, a person can, indeed, learn something new every day if they
                          aren't careful. :-)

                          Thanks for the correction -- and for providing it without being
                          condescending. It is difficult to discern exactly what something is
                          made of in a grainy/blurry picture. I freely admit that I was
                          guessing they were made of clay....and clay would, of course, tend to
                          break on impact.

                          Say, that does give one an idea. How about some "experimental
                          archaeology"?

                          --Artúr


                          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "jameswolfden" <jameswolfden@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > If you mean these ones,
                          >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-
                          > Archery/photos/album/965722480/pic/2050126555/view?
                          > picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc
                          >
                          > They are Chinese whistling fire arrows from Stephen Selby's display
                          > in Hong Kong. They are made of iron not clay. Oil and pitch soaked
                          > cloth would be wrapped above the barbs in the arrow. The barbs
                          would
                          > prevent the flaming material from sliding back down the shaft on
                          > release.
                          >
                          > Here is a write up on whistling arrows from the ATARN site that
                          also
                          > includes a bit on the fire arrows.
                          >
                          > http://www.atarn.org/chinese/whistle/whistle.htm
                          >
                          >
                          > In Service,
                          > James Wolfden
                          >
                          > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "arturdubh" <nasionnaich@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Dave;
                          > >
                          > > There is a picture of some specially-made arrow heads, for use
                          > > with "flame arrows", in the "Photos" section of the group; for
                          > some
                          > > reason I can't connect to the page right now, probably yet
                          > > another "Yahoo! glitch"... Anyway, they seem to be made of clay,
                          > with
                          > > a cavity similar to that of a whstling arrow, designed to break
                          > open
                          > > on impact. Perhaps the flammable material was shoved inside,
                          > soaked
                          > > with naptha (or any other substance such as kerosene), lit and
                          > sent
                          > > on its way.
                          > >
                          > > In any case, they look to be extremely efficient.
                          > >
                          > > --Artúr
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <gargoyle1058@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > I need any and all info that you may have on ways to make a
                          > > workable flaming arrow ASAP modern or otherwise for use in any
                          > type
                          > > of bow including crossbows. This is not for a SCA project. Thank
                          > > you, Gar
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Andrew
                          I posted a picture of a cage Fire Arrowhead in the Miscellaneous folder in the photo section.... perhaps that might give you an Idea ... flaming arrow ASAP
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 4, 2008
                            I posted a picture of a "cage Fire Arrowhead" in the Miscellaneous
                            folder in the photo section.... perhaps that might give you an Idea


                            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <gargoyle1058@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I need any and all info that you may have on ways to make a workable
                            flaming arrow ASAP modern or otherwise for use in any type of bow
                            including crossbows. This is not for a SCA project. Thank you, Gar
                            >
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