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RE: [SCA-Archery] Nocks

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  • Brett Wilson
    While on the subject of nocks, specifically self nocks, I have a question going back to the period class of the IKAC. I have just recently returned from the
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 4, 2000
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      While on the subject of nocks, specifically self nocks, I have a question
      going back to the "period" class of the IKAC.

      I have just recently returned from the beautiful Outlands , Grand Outlandish
      event. One afternoon, while waiting for the archers to return from lunch
      break, several of us discussed the "fiberglass vs. period" issue.

      The discussion boiled down to the fact that fiberglass acts much like some
      period materials, and, as long as it is aesthetically not obnoxious, should
      be kept in the period class.

      My question, then, is: Why do we have to have self nocks in the period
      division, when there is documentation of glue on horn or bone nocks that
      function very much like the modern plastic nocks? If I were to use black,
      white, or brown plastic nocks, would it not be as aesthetically proper as
      fiberglass?

      I feel that if you are going to allow fiberglass bows in the period
      division, you should not make me use self nocks.

      What say you?

      Leif of Crescent Moon
      Calontir archer


      -----Original Message-----
      From: elwin@... [mailto:elwin@...]
      Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 2:46 PM
      To: SCA-Archery@egroups.com
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] Nocks


      Hello My Lords and Ladys of the list.
      Iwant to hear some thoughts on why I shoud make footed arrows and
      self nocks if when I step to the line and get no more points then
      some one shoting store bough.
      Ok before you all get in an uproar, I do this beacause I love
      archery .for some 50 years.way before SCA.
      I beacame a menber because of archery.No Ido not write or spell so
      well But I went to John Strunks bow school on very limiedfunds ,
      And I make beautful wooden bows .and Ilove to shoot not to good Iam
      all ways working on may craft you see I like to have aplace to live
      for my Lady of 37 years

      WE are new to the area of The Midrealm, in Cin Oh.
      Let me hear your thought.
      In service Lord Elwin the Bowman
      Past A&S Champion of Rivers Region of the kingdom of An Tir






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    • Chris Nogy
      Where does it end? The real fact is that Giovanni doesn t have to have a reason to decide if some things are or are not allowed in the IKAC period division.
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 4, 2000
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        Where does it end?

        The real fact is that Giovanni doesn't have to have a reason to decide if some things are or are not allowed in the IKAC period division. Just because so many people shoot it doesn't make it a public domain competition, it is run by the rules that Giovanni decides. So justifying by category or anything else is a moot point - the period division contains what Giovanni has decided that he will accept as being period.

        So far, he has let us all in on that process, but it is not our right to be in on it, it is a privelage granted by the competition sponsor.

        I can understand why people get all up in arms when somebody suggests no fiberglass - it sometimes costs more to acquire a wooden bow than to use the modern laminate bow you already have. It then boils down to a matter of cost. But that matter is not so critical when it comes to self-nocked arrows - they can actually be made cheaper (and almost as quickly, once you attain some reasonable experience) as a modern nocked arrow.

        Allowing fiberglass is just that - allowing it. It is not the ideal, not even the standard, it is allowed because enough people made a fuss about it. But it is a period division we are discussing. The idea as I understand it is to promote period (not period-esque) archery when feasible, and to continue to focus more and more away from modern archery in this division. There is nothing wrong with modern arrows in the open division, but I cannot see a very compelling reason to allow them in the period division. If we allow fiberglass, arrow shelves, and modern nocked arrows, what makes it different from the open division?

        Kaz
      • Giovanni dell'Arco
        I wrote the following excerpt for an On Target Online article regarding the need for an archery guild. You can find the full article at
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 4, 2000
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          I wrote the following excerpt for an On Target Online article regarding the
          need for an archery guild. You can find the full article at
          http://www.dellarco.com/ontarget/frames/quiver_frame.html, then click on
          "There's More to Archery Than Scores."

          "I began to look at the SCA and my role in it. What was I doing that
          couldn't be done in mundane clothing with a traditional archery club? Was I
          taking full advantage of my SCA experiences, the few I allowed myself off
          the range? No, I wasn't. I'm a history major at Seattle University with a
          future goal of being a high school history teacher. I love history,
          especially the history of the bow. Here I belonged to a medieval re-creation
          group with others interested in the history of the bow and yet there was no
          real movement towards consolidating our knowledge."

          Period nocks (self, hardwood, bone, etc.), I feel, are a simple, but
          important, step in the right direction to distinguish ourselves from mundane
          traditional archers and to learn hands-on the techniques we claim to keep
          alive as SCA archers. The next step could be cutting your own fletching or
          twisting your own string. Then we might try our hand at making your own bow
          or crossbow stock. The important thing is taking that first step.
          Otherwise, the only difference between us and mundane traditional archers is
          the garb.

          Giovanni--->

          > From: elwin@...
          > Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 19:46:20 -0000
          > To: SCA-Archery@egroups.com
          > Subject: [SCA-Archery] Nocks
          >
          > Hello My Lords and Ladys of the list.
          > Iwant to hear some thoughts on why I shoud make footed arrows and
          > self nocks if when I step to the line and get no more points then
          > some one shoting store bough.
          > Ok before you all get in an uproar, I do this beacause I love
          > archery .for some 50 years.way before SCA.
          > I beacame a menber because of archery.No Ido not write or spell so
          > well But I went to John Strunks bow school on very limiedfunds ,
          > And I make beautful wooden bows .and Ilove to shoot not to good Iam
          > all ways working on may craft you see I like to have aplace to live
          > for my Lady of 37 years
          >
          > WE are new to the area of The Midrealm, in Cin Oh.
          > Let me hear your thought.
          > In service Lord Elwin the Bowman
          > Past A&S Champion of Rivers Region of the kingdom of An Tir
        • skyecal@blazenet.net
          Greetings! I m in the process of making my fourth & fifth dozen arrows. I m using plastic nocks on these in order to get these done quickly, running out of
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 17, 2001
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            Greetings!

            I'm in the process of making my fourth & fifth dozen arrows. I'm
            using plastic nocks on these in order to get these done quickly,
            running out of time. I normally make self-nocks.

            I'm running into problems with the taper tool. It seems to chew the
            wood up a bit further than the nock covers. Is this normal? Should
            the end of the arrow go completely up into the nock? I have a tiny
            bit of space at the top. (They are white, so I can see through them
            when I hold them up to the light.) I need to make sure I have extra
            arrows for an upcoming archery event in Aethelmarc. One suggestion I
            received was to use plenty of glue. Just want to make sure that I
            cover all my bases on this. Thanks for any help, suggestions, etc.

            Lady Rhianna of AElfwine
            Shire of Owl's Reste
          • Siegfried Sebastian Faust
            Personally, this seems to be a fairly common problem so to speak. Although I ve never seen it as a problem. There are variations in taper tools, and in the
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 17, 2001
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              Personally, this seems to be a fairly common 'problem' so to
              speak. Although I've never seen it as a problem.

              There are variations in taper tools, and in the taper of a nock
              itself. Fairly often, they just don't quite line up.

              Just make sure that your nock goes on straight, and don't worry about it :)

              As long as it seats well, that's what matters, whether the taper is too
              'short' (doesn't fill to the tip), or too 'long' (Leaves a little bit of
              taper showing below the nock.)

              Siegfried



              At 09:40 PM 4/17/2001 +0000, you wrote:
              >Greetings!
              >
              >I'm in the process of making my fourth & fifth dozen arrows. I'm
              >using plastic nocks on these in order to get these done quickly,
              >running out of time. I normally make self-nocks.
              >
              >I'm running into problems with the taper tool. It seems to chew the
              >wood up a bit further than the nock covers. Is this normal? Should
              >the end of the arrow go completely up into the nock? I have a tiny
              >bit of space at the top. (They are white, so I can see through them
              >when I hold them up to the light.) I need to make sure I have extra
              >arrows for an upcoming archery event in Aethelmarc. One suggestion I
              >received was to use plenty of glue. Just want to make sure that I
              >cover all my bases on this. Thanks for any help, suggestions, etc.
              >
              >Lady Rhianna of AElfwine
              >Shire of Owl's Reste
              >
              >
              >---8<---------------------------------------------
              >Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
              >Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
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              >
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              _________________________________________________________________________
              Lord Siegfried Sebastian Faust Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
              Barony of Highland Foorde http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/
            • Carl (checking home mail from work)
              ... This suggests to me that the nocks are a little smaller in diameter than the shafts. Having them the same would be nice but more important is that they fit
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 17, 2001
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                skyecal@... wrote:


                > I'm running into problems with the taper tool. It seems to chew the
                > wood up a bit further than the nock covers. Is this normal?

                This suggests to me that the nocks are a little smaller in diameter than
                the shafts. Having them the same would be nice but more important is
                that they fit the string and are on straight.


                >...Should
                > the end of the arrow go completely up into the nock?

                'Most of the way' is good enough.

                -- Fritz
              • Susan Kell
                Greetings, Rhianna - This is a silly question, but was the tool you used set to do the right taper? Most tools have different cylinders for the different
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 17, 2001
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                  Greetings, Rhianna -

                  This is a silly question, but was the tool you used set to do the "right"
                  taper? Most tools have different cylinders for the different common
                  diameters of shafting (or they are completely separate tools) *and* the
                  taper for a nock (5 degrees) is different from the taper for a point (11
                  degrees). If your tool has applied the right angle of taper to the
                  expected diameter of shaft, it is possible that the nocks you're using have
                  somewhat deeper openings in them than standard.

                  As others have already replied, if the nock ends up securely glued to the
                  shaft you should be fine. If the "gap" prevents a good bond, you will have
                  problems. If a bit of raw, tapered wood shows below the otherwise secure
                  nock, that's just a cosmetic issue.

                  Regarding the taper tool "chewing" the wood, this is a common problem, and
                  in my experience two things help: (1) use a fresh, sharp blade and (2) do
                  your tapering after applying the seal coat (to hold the wood fibers
                  together).

                  I hope that helps!
                  -- Ygraine

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: skyecal@... [SMTP:skyecal@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 5:40 PM
                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [SCA-Archery] Nocks

                  Greetings!

                  I'm in the process of making my fourth & fifth dozen arrows. I'm
                  using plastic nocks on these in order to get these done quickly,
                  running out of time. I normally make self-nocks.

                  I'm running into problems with the taper tool. It seems to chew the
                  wood up a bit further than the nock covers. Is this normal? Should
                  the end of the arrow go completely up into the nock? I have a tiny
                  bit of space at the top. (They are white, so I can see through them
                  when I hold them up to the light.) I need to make sure I have extra
                  arrows for an upcoming archery event in Aethelmarc. One suggestion I
                  received was to use plenty of glue. Just want to make sure that I
                  cover all my bases on this. Thanks for any help, suggestions, etc.

                  Lady Rhianna of AElfwine
                  Shire of Owl's Reste


                  ---8<---------------------------------------------
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                • Ronnie E. Hewitt
                  Lady Rhianna Sometimes the taper tool blade is off set just a little and that will cause the cutting as you describe..It will start ok then change...I have had
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 17, 2001
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                    Lady Rhianna
                    Sometimes the taper tool blade is off set just a little and that will cause
                    the cutting as you describe..It will start ok then change...I have had
                    several tpaer tools do this and have set the angle a little more to make it
                    stop chewing the wood as to say..This also is common of a dull blade..
                    As for the vacant spot in the nock,I load a spot of glue at the top on wood
                    shafts..this should assure you that it is stuck to the shaft.you may have to
                    twist the nock a little more than usual but it sets the glue and does not
                    cause the nock to push away from the shaft..
                    Wishing you well and straight shooting...

                    Laird of Family Owls Lair
                    Connor O' Connor




                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: skyecal@... [mailto:skyecal@...]
                    > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 4:40 PM
                    > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [SCA-Archery] Nocks
                    >
                    >
                    > Greetings!
                    >
                    > I'm in the process of making my fourth & fifth dozen arrows. I'm
                    > using plastic nocks on these in order to get these done quickly,
                    > running out of time. I normally make self-nocks.
                    >
                    > I'm running into problems with the taper tool. It seems to chew the
                    > wood up a bit further than the nock covers. Is this normal? Should
                    > the end of the arrow go completely up into the nock? I have a tiny
                    > bit of space at the top. (They are white, so I can see through them
                    > when I hold them up to the light.) I need to make sure I have extra
                    > arrows for an upcoming archery event in Aethelmarc. One suggestion I
                    > received was to use plenty of glue. Just want to make sure that I
                    > cover all my bases on this. Thanks for any help, suggestions, etc.
                    >
                    > Lady Rhianna of AElfwine
                    > Shire of Owl's Reste
                    >
                    >
                    > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                    > Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                    > Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
                    >
                    > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • William Arwemakere
                    Just a minor correction, Nock angle is 11 deg, point angle is 5 deg. William Arwemakere Arcuarius to HE Gerhard Kendal Barony of Lions Gate An Tir
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 17, 2001
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                      Just a minor correction, Nock angle is 11 deg, point angle is 5 deg.

                      William Arwemakere
                      Arcuarius to HE Gerhard Kendal
                      Barony of Lions Gate
                      An Tir


                      > taper for a nock (5 degrees) is different from the taper for a point (11
                      > degrees).
                      >
                    • Jean-Paul Blaquiere
                      ... not at all ;) It s showing you that that blade on your taper tool is getting blunt. Two solutions, replace it - if you can. I cannot find new blades for
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 17, 2001
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                        > On Apr 17, skyecal@... illuminated with a virtual pen :

                        > I'm running into problems with the taper tool. It seems to chew the
                        > wood up a bit further than the nock covers. Is this normal?
                        >
                        not at all ;) It's showing you that that blade on your taper tool is
                        getting blunt. Two solutions, replace it - if you can. I cannot find new
                        blades for my two taper tools, so I go the sharpening way. IF you can find
                        a soft waterstone, or leather strop and use them to polish the edge
                        of the blade back to razor sharpness.

                        > Should
                        > the end of the arrow go completely up into the nock? I have a tiny
                        > bit of space at the top.
                        >
                        I find the little bit of space does not matter, just so long as they knocks
                        are straight on the shaft and that you have enough surface area for the glue
                        to bond the nock to the shaft.


                        /Jp...
                        --
                        Jean-Paul Blaquière || Avatar of Computational
                        japester@... || Thaumaturgy
                        http://japester.ucc.asn.au || IHTFP
                        Democracy is based on the premise that a million men are wiser than
                        one man. How's that again? I missed something? -- Lazarus Long
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