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Re: Judging distance

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  • arturdubh
    George, you know that I respect you as an archer and all (at least I hope that you know this), and I know I most likely won t be endearing myself to anybody
    Message 1 of 77 , Mar 31, 2008
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      George, you know that I respect you as an archer and all (at least I
      hope that you know this), and I know I most likely won't be endearing
      myself to anybody (well, hardly anybody) with this, yet it needs to
      be said. So, here goes...

      This has been a discussion on range-finding implements, both modern
      and not-so-modern (optical or otherwise). Just replace "range-
      finders" with "modern recurve bows/longbows".... Just remember, even
      though SCA rules do not expressly forbid the use of modern-design
      Traditional bows (especially take-down bows), they do not "add to the
      realism involved with researching or reenacting our period" -- since
      Dacron, fibre-glass and "action wood" were not known in the Middle
      Ages.

      I personally do not like to see anyone using brightly-painted shafts
      while portraying a Norse persona, since it seems such a shaft would
      only serve to alert the "victim" (target) of its imminent fate, yet I
      would still allow the use of such brightly-painted shafts if I were
      the line-Marshal; some folks simply like their shafts to be
      personalized in such a way which is so very non-period in nature.
      What rankles is the blanket exclusion of something simply because the
      person "in charge" doesn't like it -- not because the rules forbid
      its use.

      Now, if the shoot were to have rules expressly forbidding the use of
      (modern) range-finding devices, including anything incorporating a
      magnifying lens of any kind (excluding, of course, prescription eye-
      glasses) and/or ranging marks on the bow....

      Also, the statement that range-finders "would not have been available
      to archer in period": Just what documentation is there to show that
      they were not available to archers "in period"? This question is not
      lightly asked, nor is it asked sarcastically; there are people who
      really want to know.

      Just my fourteen cents (adjusted for inflation).

      --Artúr


      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Oakes, George" <goakes@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > As a Ranger at Large in Trimaris,
      >
      > I would not allow such a device as it has no reference or would not
      have
      > been available to archer in period. While the rules do not expressly
      > forbid it, I still would not allow it as it does not add to the
      realism
      > involved with researching or reenacting our period.
      >
      > just my two cents, other rangers may agree or disagree, and that is
      > there place to do so.
      >
      > YIS
      > Ranger Gavin
      >
      > ________________________________
      >
      > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-
      Archery@yahoogroups.com]
      > On Behalf Of Lord Godwin FitzGilbert de Strigoil
      > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 3:50 PM
      > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Judging distance
      >
      >
      >
      > Any opinions on the use of optical range finders or other less
      modern
      > equipment to judge unknown distances at SCA competitions? Their use
      > is not expressly forbidden by SCA rules.
      >
      > Jon
      >
      > Yep, strong opinion:
      >
      > NO, not allowed.
      >
      > I don't even like the marking of bow limbs. :|
      >
      > Godwin
      >
      > ---- Msg sent via CableONE.net MyMail - http://www.cableone.net
      > <http://www.cableone.net>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Carolus
      Yes, a marshal or event steward can ban sights or anything else for a particular event or shoot even if otherwise allowed by society and kingdom rules. Just
      Message 77 of 77 , Apr 3, 2008
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        Yes, a marshal or event steward can ban sights or anything else for a
        particular event or shoot even if otherwise allowed by society and
        kingdom rules. Just as a tourney may be made great weapons only,
        hits above the waist only, or any other special rule. I have seen
        and run events that were "period" equipment only - bring your
        fiberglas and be a spectator.
        Carolus

        At 08:07 AM 4/3/2008, you wrote:

        > > First, I don't remember if "electronic range finders" were
        > > specified by yourself or not (I don't think they were), but I do
        > > know that I was refering to "generic range finders"
        > > anything/everything which could possibly be used as a range finder -
        > > including bows). Since a bow can be used as a range finder (limb
        > > tips have a known length/width/etc, as do risers), I must assume
        > > that any edict banning "range finders" from use in unknown distance
        > > shoots includes bows...
        >
        >The first to mention electronic range finders was Sir Jon.
        >
        >Here is the question I pose. If any kind of "range finders" are
        >going to be banned, what are you going to do with those marshals who
        >help setup or those already familar with the range?
        >
        >I know of one kingdom archery championship where the actual shoot
        >being done was kept quiet from the archers and the marshal running
        >the shoot won the event. Kind of unfair if you ask me. That's
        >definitely more unfair that somebody any kind of period tool to
        >estimate distance.
        >
        > > That is why I feel that the use of **some form** of non-modern
        > > range finding device should be allowed, unless it is SPECIFICALLY
        > > discouraged for a particular competition.
        >
        >But how are you going to do that? Crossbows are permitted to have
        >rear sights and with a simple peep site compared to a horizon one can
        >determine distance. You mean a marshal can ban sights when they are
        >permitted under SCA and a kingdom rules?
        >
        >If something was done in period (provided it's safe for the event)
        >then it should be permitted. No banning of period sighting
        >techniques used even if they were frowned upon by Roger Ascham. No
        >banning of period sights.
        >
        >There are plenty of these types of rules I've seen that are rather
        >bogus. If I want to come to an event with 20 different types of
        >arrows and use the type of arrow which best suits a type of shoot
        >that should be allowed. I certainly don't want to use my IKAC bolts
        >to shoot a clout or anything that will damage my bolts. If one
        >wanted to change from one type of a bow to another during a
        >competition that should also be allow as it takes more effort to
        >master two types of weaponry that one.
        >
        >Comes down to what are people afraid of?
        >
        >Michael


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