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Shooting Form

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  • Bill Brown
    This may be out of place but would anyone mind critiquing a short you tube video of me shooting a half light of arrows, I don t mind reply s on list as I
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 12, 2008
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      This may be out of place but would anyone mind critiquing a short you tube
      video of me shooting a half light of arrows, I don't mind reply's on list as
      I respect the expertise in this group.



      http://www.youtube.com/v/6AMnqr9nv5g



      Lord Domingos de Leon CQY, LWM
      Arenal, Meridies



      Mine honour is my life, both grow in one. Take honour from me, and my life
      is done."

      - William Shakespeare, Richard II (1.1.182-185)





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • arturdubh
      The video is a bit grainy, and the resolution therefor is not all that great, and I am not really anyone of importance (not of Great Accomplishment) in the
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 12, 2008
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        The video is a bit grainy, and the resolution therefor is not all
        that great, and I am not really anyone of importance (not of Great
        Accomplishment) in the world of SCA archery -- but here's what I see:

        The draw: Your arm looks to be in line with the arrow, at least
        up/down alginment. But it looks like your wrist is bent on release,
        which causes the elbow to be out of line -- and often causes the
        string to be 'plucked' to the side. It's difficult to tell, really,
        since there is no footage from behind and the camera view is too far
        away for a clear picture.... The bow arm looks good, nicely lined up
        with the arrow; the elbow looks to be bent consistently. I am
        wondering what type of grip your longbow has, i.e., "Howard Hill"
        or "straight" grip...I'm just curious. It appears that your shoulders
        are a little hunched, even at full-draw, but this could be from the
        perspective the video was shot from.

        Your anchor looks solid and consistent; draw length does not seem to
        be changing from shot to shot.

        The release: You seem to be "flinging" your fingers open, instead of
        just letting them relax... Your "follow through" looks to be good;
        you aren't jerking around, you aren't letting your bow arm drop too
        soon and you appear to be looking to where you want the shot to go
        from draw to "thunk" (when the arrow hits the target).

        With the camera being hand-held, the view is a bit shaky, so some
        things which might need a bit of work may be "masked". If you are
        willing to do it again, possibly include footage from behind as you
        shoot, as well as from behind (no, I don't care about your hinder-
        quarters - we need to see if you are using your back as much as
        posible) and a few close-ups of your anchor/release (or at least a
        zoom to show mostly the shoulders/arms..); it'll help to better
        identify any areas which might need work.

        I hope this critique will be of some use to you, sir.

        --Artúr


        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Brown" <stickbow@...> wrote:
        >
        > This may be out of place but would anyone mind critiquing a short
        you tube
        > video of me shooting a half light of arrows, I don't mind reply's
        on list as
        > I respect the expertise in this group.
        >
        >
        >
        > http://www.youtube.com/v/6AMnqr9nv5g
        >
        >
        >
        > Lord Domingos de Leon CQY, LWM
        > Arenal, Meridies
        >
        >
        >
        > Mine honour is my life, both grow in one. Take honour from me, and
        my life
        > is done."
        >
        > - William Shakespeare, Richard II (1.1.182-185)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Bill Brown
        Your advice is well taken. I will try to get a better video and better footage and have another snippet to look at soon. I have pretty good groups, often, but
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 12, 2008
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          Your advice is well taken. I will try to get a better video and better
          footage and have another snippet to look at soon. I have pretty good groups,
          often, but not consistent enough to take credit for them preferring to thank
          the gods…lol. There is little traditional archery in my area and it is an
          honor to have who I consider experts in the field offer their wisdom. Thank
          you.



          Domingos



          _____

          From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of arturdubh
          Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:00 PM
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Shooting Form



          The video is a bit grainy, and the resolution therefor is not all
          that great, and I am not really anyone of importance (not of Great
          Accomplishment) in the world of SCA archery -- but here's what I see:

          The draw: Your arm looks to be in line with the arrow, at least
          up/down alginment. But it looks like your wrist is bent on release,
          which causes the elbow to be out of line -- and often causes the
          string to be 'plucked' to the side. It's difficult to tell, really,
          since there is no footage from behind and the camera view is too far
          away for a clear picture.... The bow arm looks good, nicely lined up
          with the arrow; the elbow looks to be bent consistently. I am
          wondering what type of grip your longbow has, i.e., "Howard Hill"
          or "straight" grip...I'm just curious. It appears that your shoulders
          are a little hunched, even at full-draw, but this could be from the
          perspective the video was shot from.

          Your anchor looks solid and consistent; draw length does not seem to
          be changing from shot to shot.

          The release: You seem to be "flinging" your fingers open, instead of
          just letting them relax... Your "follow through" looks to be good;
          you aren't jerking around, you aren't letting your bow arm drop too
          soon and you appear to be looking to where you want the shot to go
          from draw to "thunk" (when the arrow hits the target).

          With the camera being hand-held, the view is a bit shaky, so some
          things which might need a bit of work may be "masked". If you are
          willing to do it again, possibly include footage from behind as you
          shoot, as well as from behind (no, I don't care about your hinder-
          quarters - we need to see if you are using your back as much as
          posible) and a few close-ups of your anchor/release (or at least a
          zoom to show mostly the shoulders/arms..); it'll help to better
          identify any areas which might need work.

          I hope this critique will be of some use to you, sir.

          --Artúr

          --- In SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
          "Bill Brown" <stickbow@...> wrote:
          >
          > This may be out of place but would anyone mind critiquing a short
          you tube
          > video of me shooting a half light of arrows, I don't mind reply's
          on list as
          > I respect the expertise in this group.
          >
          >
          >
          > http://www.youtube <http://www.youtube.com/v/6AMnqr9nv5g>
          com/v/6AMnqr9nv5g
          >
          >
          >
          > Lord Domingos de Leon CQY, LWM
          > Arenal, Meridies
          >
          >
          >
          > Mine honour is my life, both grow in one. Take honour from me, and
          my life
          > is done."
          >
          > - William Shakespeare, Richard II (1.1.182-185)
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Carolus
          I had to watch the video several times and finally step through it. For the most part your form is very nice. Whit I saw are fine tuning items. First, your
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 12, 2008
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            I had to watch the video several times and
            finally step through it. For the most part your
            form is very nice. Whit I saw are fine tuning
            items. First, your shoulders are hunched and
            tense. Relax. Second, as you begin to draw,
            your string arm is very tense and taut. Taken
            together, these show that you are not using your
            back to draw. This makes you work too hard with
            your arm. This also leads to the cock in your
            wrist. As you relax it will straighten
            out. Also as a result, you do tend to "explode"
            your release resulting in at least a loss of
            energy if not a pluck of the string.

            You are steady and in place at anchor but you
            stop drawing when you reach anchor. You should
            relax your fingers at that point but continue
            drawing through it. Your elbow should continue
            on the same line through your release. This can
            result in 5-15 fps increase in arrow speed. It
            will also reduce the tendency to pluck and will
            improve your group. I could not see if you kept
            your mouth in the same position or if you
            clenched your jaw nor could I detect if your
            breathing was consistent with the same amount of
            breath in your lungs at release. These can also affect the shot.

            You could improve your consistency if you slowed
            down your shots a little, resting a bit more
            between each shot. This is fine form for speed
            shooting but your untimed shooting can improve
            considerably by resting a little. These are all
            rather advanced items and you are doing fine at this point.
            Carolus

            At 09:14 PM 2/12/2008, you wrote:

            >Your advice is well taken. I will try to get a better video and better
            >footage and have another snippet to look at soon. I have pretty good groups,
            >often, but not consistent enough to take credit for them preferring to thank
            >the gods…lol. There is little traditional archery in my area and it is an
            >honor to have who I consider experts in the field offer their wisdom. Thank
            >you.
            >
            >Domingos
            >
            >_____
            >
            >From:
            ><mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            >[mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
            >Behalf Of arturdubh
            >Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:00 PM
            >To: <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Shooting Form
            >
            >The video is a bit grainy, and the resolution therefor is not all
            >that great, and I am not really anyone of importance (not of Great
            >Accomplishment) in the world of SCA archery -- but here's what I see:
            >
            >The draw: Your arm looks to be in line with the arrow, at least
            >up/down alginment. But it looks like your wrist is bent on release,
            >which causes the elbow to be out of line -- and often causes the
            >string to be 'plucked' to the side. It's difficult to tell, really,
            >since there is no footage from behind and the camera view is too far
            >away for a clear picture.... The bow arm looks good, nicely lined up
            >with the arrow; the elbow looks to be bent consistently. I am
            >wondering what type of grip your longbow has, i.e., "Howard Hill"
            >or "straight" grip...I'm just curious. It appears that your shoulders
            >are a little hunched, even at full-draw, but this could be from the
            >perspective the video was shot from.
            >
            >Your anchor looks solid and consistent; draw length does not seem to
            >be changing from shot to shot.
            >
            >The release: You seem to be "flinging" your fingers open, instead of
            >just letting them relax... Your "follow through" looks to be good;
            >you aren't jerking around, you aren't letting your bow arm drop too
            >soon and you appear to be looking to where you want the shot to go
            >from draw to "thunk" (when the arrow hits the target).
            >
            >With the camera being hand-held, the view is a bit shaky, so some
            >things which might need a bit of work may be "masked". If you are
            >willing to do it again, possibly include footage from behind as you
            >shoot, as well as from behind (no, I don't care about your hinder-
            >quarters - we need to see if you are using your back as much as
            >posible) and a few close-ups of your anchor/release (or at least a
            >zoom to show mostly the shoulders/arms..); it'll help to better
            >identify any areas which might need work.
            >
            >I hope this critique will be of some use to you, sir.
            >
            >--Artúr
            >
            >--- In SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
            >"Bill Brown" <stickbow@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > This may be out of place but would anyone mind critiquing a short
            >you tube
            > > video of me shooting a half light of arrows, I don't mind reply's
            >on list as
            > > I respect the expertise in this group.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > <http://www.youtube>http://www.youtube
            > <http://www.youtube.com/v/6AMnqr9nv5g>
            >com/v/6AMnqr9nv5g
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Lord Domingos de Leon CQY, LWM
            > > Arenal, Meridies
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Mine honour is my life, both grow in one. Take honour from me, and
            >my life
            > > is done."
            > >
            > > - William Shakespeare, Richard II (1.1.182-185)
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >No virus found in this incoming message.
            >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272
            >- Release Date: 2/11/2008 5:28 PM


            --
            No virus found in this outgoing message.
            Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 3:20 PM
          • Fritz
            When Bill Brown put fingers to keys it was 2/12/08 9:10 PM... ... What I see is variation in the follow-through of the string hand. It doesn t seem to do the
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 13, 2008
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              When Bill Brown put fingers to keys it was 2/12/08 9:10 PM...

              > This may be out of place but would anyone mind critiquing a short you tube
              > video of me shooting a half light of arrows,

              What I see is variation in the follow-through of the string hand. It
              doesn't seem to do the same thing after each release.


              --
              Fritz
              Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.
            • Edward deWitt
              Lord Domingos, I am not going to try to critique your form since mine has many problems, but I have been fussed at for drawing my arrows from the quiver
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 13, 2008
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                Lord Domingos, I am not going to try to critique your form since mine has many problems, but I have been fussed at for drawing my arrows from the quiver below the fletching. I am still trying to break the habit. As you do, I did this and sometimes I had a hard time hitting the string with the nock. This was really important when shooting speed rounds. Those fussing at me said to grab by the nock, this giving me quicker placement of the nock to string. I am still having trouble with this, but I think it has to do with the long length of my quiver not being able to clear it.
                FWIW

                Edward
                Bill Brown <stickbow@...> wrote: This may be out of place but would anyone mind critiquing a short you tube
                video of me shooting a half light of arrows, I don't mind reply's on list as
                I respect the expertise in this group.

                http://www.youtube.com/v/6AMnqr9nv5g

                Lord Domingos de Leon CQY, LWM
                Arenal, Meridies

                Mine honour is my life, both grow in one. Take honour from me, and my life
                is done."

                - William Shakespeare, Richard II (1.1.182-185)

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                ---------------------------------
                Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Hobbe
                ... I can t add anything constructive to what has been said by the others, but I do see one thing in your form that bothers me when I see it. I also know that
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 13, 2008
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                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Brown" <stickbow@...> wrote:
                  > Lord Domingos de Leon CQY, LWM
                  > Arenal, Meridies

                  I can't add anything constructive to what has been said by the others,
                  but I do see one thing in your form that bothers me when I see it. I
                  also know that I am often guilty of doing the same...

                  Pointing your arrow upwards as you draw. There is really no reason to
                  do so and if your fingers slip off the string the arrow will likely
                  travel farther than you wish.

                  Respectfully,
                  Hobbe
                • Scott B. Jaqua
                  ... I believe both these problems can be addressed in the Pre-Draw. I have found that using a technique taken from Japanese archery works for me. First hold
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 13, 2008
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                    Carolus wrote:

                    > Second, as you begin to draw,
                    > your string arm is very tense and taut. Taken
                    > together, these show that you are not using your
                    > back to draw. This makes you work too hard with
                    > your arm. This also leads to the cock in your
                    > wrist.


                    Hobbe wrote:

                    > I can't add anything constructive to what has been said by the others,
                    > but I do see one thing in your form that bothers me when I see it. I
                    > also know that I am often guilty of doing the same...
                    >
                    > Pointing your arrow upwards as you draw. There is really no reason to
                    > do so and if your fingers slip off the string the arrow will likely
                    > travel farther than you wish.

                    I believe both these problems can be addressed in the Pre-Draw. I have
                    found that using a technique taken from Japanese archery works for me.
                    First hold both your bow hand and string hand slightly above your head
                    with the arrow level to the ground (this is called Climbing Mount
                    something or another in Japanese archery). Then draw the bow by puling
                    both hands down to your draw and anchor position, moving in as straight
                    a line as possible. If you do it right, you will feel it in the back
                    right off. You can not avoid using you back instead of your arms. It
                    also keeps the arrow safely pointed down range the entire time.

                    Not that my form is perfect by any means. I still have the pluck, I was
                    known for (and some of my students picked up). I keep hoping it's
                    consistent enough that is a part of my form almost like a certain
                    Olympic archer that used to shoot for ASU. But somehow I don't think so :)

                    Njall

                    --

                    Scott B. Jaqua
                    Hagerson Forge, Custom Blades from Historic Patterns
                    http://www.hagersonforge.com
                  • Bill Brown
                    Ok, one step at a time is the only way to move forward. I am going to concentrate first on my release. It is very apparent that I am plucking my string like a
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 13, 2008
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                      Ok, one step at a time is the only way to move forward. I am going to
                      concentrate first on my release. It is very apparent that I am plucking my
                      string like a base guitar. Some of this may be from homemade/cheap shooting
                      glove trying to clear the fingertips of the glove. I will look at this and
                      practice the "let the hand relax, the string will follow" method I "thought"
                      I was doing. I looked at that video several times and never noticed the
                      things spoken of until they were pointed out. I see them now. This is
                      turning out to be similar to a bow build along, but instead a shooting form
                      build along..thanks!



                      Domingos



                      _____

                      From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Hobbe
                      Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:39 AM
                      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Shooting Form



                      --- In SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
                      "Bill Brown" <stickbow@...> wrote:
                      > Lord Domingos de Leon CQY, LWM
                      > Arenal, Meridies

                      I can't add anything constructive to what has been said by the others,
                      but I do see one thing in your form that bothers me when I see it. I
                      also know that I am often guilty of doing the same...

                      Pointing your arrow upwards as you draw. There is really no reason to
                      do so and if your fingers slip off the string the arrow will likely
                      travel farther than you wish.

                      Respectfully,
                      Hobbe





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • John and Carol Atkins
                      Many good points here but the one I noticed and it s effect was commented here by Carolus is holding the draw. Carolus and others pointed out your shoulders
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 13, 2008
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                        Many good points here but the one I noticed and it's effect was
                        commented here by Carolus is holding the draw. Carolus and others
                        pointed out your shoulders seem hunched and your draw/release occurs
                        rapidly. Good for speed rounds, not so good for untimed rounds. I
                        think the problem here lies in your stance. You appear to be using
                        what is called an open stance. In this case, very open stance. That
                        is, the basic stance has your toes perpendicular to a line from your
                        position to the target. In this position your bow arm is referred to
                        as being bone on bone on bone. That is, bow hand anchored to arm,
                        anchored to shoulder. In this configuration it takes little arm
                        strength to hold and maintain a steady aim prior to release. Now
                        also, if you are using the basic stance as you reach your anchor
                        point, I tell folks "stick your chest out". This forces your body to
                        use your back muscles to hold the draw and takes the strain off your
                        arm muscles. It also adds an inch or two to your draw and results in
                        faster arrow speed. In the video you appear to have your forward
                        foot back off the line from position to target. This position is
                        very good for snap shooting where you do not hold the draw but also
                        requires the draw to be held primarily by your arm muscles.

                        I find for myself when I begin to have shooting issues I actually
                        move into a closed stance, wherein my backward foot is behind the
                        line from postion to target. This forces my body to "twist" into the
                        shooting position but into the bone on bone on bone stance. Think
                        like a horse bow archer shooting over his shoulder but not that
                        exagerated.

                        Edward's point of grabbing the next arrow by the nock I find has
                        increased my performance in the speed rounds considerably. Another
                        trick I use is to hold two extra arrows in my bow hand fingers. More
                        specifically I hold one between my little finger and ring finger and
                        a second between my middle finger and index finger, with a third
                        arrow on the string. After I shoot the first arrow on the string I
                        simply grab the nock of the next arrow in my bow hand and lever it
                        onto the string. I get off three arrows in fairly rapid sequence.
                        The guy I learned this trick from holds three arrows in his bow hand
                        with one on the string.

                        Good luck in your venture and most interesting way to get critique on
                        techinque,

                        cog
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