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Seneca run question

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  • Tyr vonWolfsberg
    Greetings, Why stick CA into a target archery shoot? Prehaps your heavies have tournaments where they have to shoot target archery? Maybe a knife or axe
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 9, 2007
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      Greetings,

      Why stick CA into a target archery shoot? Prehaps your heavies have
      tournaments where they have to shoot target archery? Maybe a knife or
      axe throw would fit in better? It sounds fun otherwise.


      > For us typically the last station is a CA shoot and you have to
      put on
      > gauntlets and a helm (or gloves and a rapier mask) and shoot a CA
      legal
      > bow and CA ammo at an IKCAC target.


      Other questions replied to:

      Here in the Outlands, we have a Royal Archer tournament. Because of
      the distance across the kingdom,

      it takes place simultaneously in two places at once, with pre-arranged
      targets and distances. A phone call

      from one site to the other, high score wins for the year.



      YIS,

      Tyr
    • Eadric Anstapa
      ... Well, it s not CA, just as the IKCAC is not CA. It s not CA because you aren t shooting at other people, you don t have full armor on, and you don t have
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 9, 2007
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        Tyr vonWolfsberg wrote:
        > Greetings,
        >
        > Why stick CA into a target archery shoot? Prehaps your heavies have
        > tournaments where they have to shoot target archery? Maybe a knife or
        > axe throw would fit in better? It sounds fun otherwise.
        >

        Well, it's not CA, just as the IKCAC is not CA. It's not CA because you
        aren't shooting at other people, you don't have full armor on, and you
        don't have to be combat authorized. It is a target archery competition
        that uses some CA gear in similar fashion to the IKCAC.

        Lets face it in period the English tradition of regular practice
        shooting at the targets butts came about by royal decree so that able
        men would be ready for combat.

        For participants, skills needed for target archery and combat archery
        are largely the same.

        In my experience good target archers, particularly those who are
        instinctive shooters, are often amazed at how quickly they become good
        combat archers. Good combat archers will often quickly out shoot good
        target archers at shoots like the clout if those are target archers are
        strong point of aim shooters largely accustomed to fixed 20/30/40 yard
        ranges.

        If you are going to twist a string, its the same skill regardless of it
        it will go on a target or a combat bow. If you make a bow or a crossbow
        it's the same skill regardless of it it will be used as a target bow or
        a combat bow. etc. etc.

        Really it's a cultural thing. In Ansteorra we don't have separate
        Target Archery and Combat Archery communities. At the Kingdom level we
        have a single Kingdom Archery Marshal in charge of Target and CA. His
        regional deputies are in charge of Target and CA.

        Our high archery award, the grant level Order of the Arc d'Or, is
        awarded for skill as a target archer, combat archer, skill as an archer
        craftsman, and service to the archery community. We have _Archers_ and
        a single Archery Community.

        Certainly there are folks who can not or where it would be unwise for
        them to participate in combat because of some physical limitations.
        However if they can participate as target archers then they should be
        capable of putting on a helm, some gauntlets, and using combat legal
        bows and ammo and hitting a static IKCAC style target. The could, can.
        and do still offer a lot to the archery community regarding CA by
        encouraging and instructing new archers, helping twist strings, craft
        combat bows, helping maintain caches of combat ammo, and using all of
        their skills that are jointly applicable to target and combat archery..

        Likewise we have a few folks who simply are not interested in Target
        Archery. They don't care to stand out on a range shooting at static
        targets and punching holes in pieces of paper with concentric colored
        rings on them. They really want is to participate as Combat Archers.
        Yet they understand that there are far more opportunities for target
        archery than there are melees where they can participate in CA. So
        target shooting keeps their arms and shoulders strong and their aim true
        so that when it is time for CA they are ready to go. They likewise have
        a lot to offer target archers by using and sharing all of their jointly
        applicable skills.

        I require that my formal students experience both target and combat
        archery. They don't have to like both. They don't have to be good at
        both or either. However, I do want them to have a personal frame of
        reference for both. For my students who are primarily Target Archers I
        want them to understand how they can contribute to and help the combat
        archers and vice versa for my students who are primarily Combat
        Archers. One day my students will have students of their own and they
        will need to guide and help their students in all of their archery
        endeavors and do do that well they will need personal experience with
        both target and combat archery.

        Axe and knife throwing... Well thats something different. It's fun.
        It's done on a static target range. It's not archery.

        If your kingdom is one that has a more of a "Live Weapons" tradition
        where target archery and thrown steel are done together then go for
        it. In that case substituting a knife or axe throw for target shooting
        with CA equipment might make more sense for your people. But we have an
        _Archery Tournament_ and the best all around _Archer_ is the winner.

        Regards,

        HL Eadric Anstapa
        Companion of the Order of the Arc d'Or of Ansteorra







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mike Wyvill
        But it isn t a Target Shoot! Simply put, in Ansteorra we expect the Royal Huntsman to take the field. Some groups (like ours the Shire of Gate s Edge) also
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 10, 2007
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          But it isn't a Target Shoot!

          Simply put, in Ansteorra we expect the Royal Huntsman to take the field. Some groups (like ours the Shire of Gate's Edge) also think their champion should be on the field directly supporting the Crown. Some do not.

          But don't assume that the CA portion of any of these tourneys overwhelms the other portions. Last Royal Huntsman, which I help run and score, had stationary paper targets, wreaths, a clout, large 3D animal targets, a CA shoot and finally small 3D animal targets. All at the Crown's pleasure.

          Lord Engenulf de Vienville
          Company of St. Sebastian




          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Tyr vonWolfsberg <wolfe351@...>
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, November 9, 2007 3:37:27 PM
          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Seneca run question

          Greetings,

          Why stick CA into a target archery shoot? Prehaps your heavies have
          tournaments where they have to shoot target archery? Maybe a knife or
          axe throw would fit in better? It sounds fun otherwise.

          > For us typically the last station is a CA shoot and you have to
          put on
          > gauntlets and a helm (or gloves and a rapier mask) and shoot a CA
          legal
          > bow and CA ammo at an IKCAC target.

          Other questions replied to:

          Here in the Outlands, we have a Royal Archer tournament. Because of
          the distance across the kingdom,

          it takes place simultaneously in two places at once, with pre-arranged
          targets and distances. A phone call

          from one site to the other, high score wins for the year.

          YIS,

          Tyr




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        • ebpayne
          With respect, this doesn t sound so much like a CA shoot as a target shoot with different obstacles. Not that it wouldn t be plenty challenging to the target
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 11, 2007
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            With respect, this doesn't sound so much like a CA shoot as a target
            shoot with different obstacles. Not that it wouldn't be plenty
            challenging to the target archer who doesn't go into combat.

            YIS,
            Sorcha na Preachain

            >
            > > For us typically the last station is a CA shoot and you have to
            > put on
            > > gauntlets and a helm (or gloves and a rapier mask) and shoot a CA
            > legal
            > > bow and CA ammo at an IKCAC target.
          • Carolus
            When I was Caid s Master of archers there was a question of who could run an IKCAC. I wanted to run one at an event on the target range and we had people say
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 11, 2007
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              When I was Caid's Master of archers there was a question of who could
              run an IKCAC. I wanted to run one at an event on the target range
              and we had people say we couldn't because all the heavy marshals and
              CA marshals would be on the fighting field. I stressed that as we
              were not shooting at people it was a target shoot which simply used
              different equipment standards. This view finally prevailed but not
              without considerable discussion. There does seem to be considerable
              confusion on this point.
              Carolus

              At 09:53 AM 11/11/2007, you wrote:

              >With respect, this doesn't sound so much like a CA shoot as a target
              >shoot with different obstacles. Not that it wouldn't be plenty
              >challenging to the target archer who doesn't go into combat.
              >
              >YIS,
              >Sorcha na Preachain
              >
              > >
              > > > For us typically the last station is a CA shoot and you have to
              > > put on
              > > > gauntlets and a helm (or gloves and a rapier mask) and shoot a CA
              > > legal
              > > > bow and CA ammo at an IKCAC target.


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            • The RenLibrarian
              There s a good chance this falls under the stupid question category, but here goes. I inherited a selfbow from a friend who left the area. It is unbacked
              Message 6 of 18 , Nov 11, 2007
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                There's a good chance this falls under the "stupid question"
                category, but here goes. I inherited a selfbow from a friend who
                left the area. It is unbacked and has a "D" cross section (curved
                belly). I'm guessing that at some point my friend left his bow
                strung for an extended period of time, as the limbs have taken on a
                fairly distinctive bend, depriving the bow of power (it is stamped at
                a 45# draw, but it presently has a draw of around 33#).

                Here is the question: would it be possible to straighten the bow back
                out by steaming it and then clamping it into shape? Would it be
                worth the effort? Thank you very much!

                -Conchobhar
              • Eadric Anstapa
                Your absolutely right. I mis-typed. It s a target shoot with CA equipment. An IKCAC style shoot. -EA ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                Message 7 of 18 , Nov 11, 2007
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                  Your absolutely right. I mis-typed.

                  It's a target shoot with CA equipment. An IKCAC style shoot.

                  -EA

                  ebpayne wrote:
                  > With respect, this doesn't sound so much like a CA shoot as a target
                  > shoot with different obstacles. Not that it wouldn't be plenty
                  > challenging to the target archer who doesn't go into combat.
                  >
                  > YIS,
                  > Sorcha na Preachain
                  >
                  >
                  >> > For us typically the last station is a CA shoot and you have to
                  >> put on
                  >> > gauntlets and a helm (or gloves and a rapier mask) and shoot a CA
                  >> legal
                  >> > bow and CA ammo at an IKCAC target.
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John edgerton
                  Quite correct. As it says in the IKCAC rules .... The Interkingdom Combat Archery Competition is a target competition shot with combat gear, which provides
                  Message 8 of 18 , Nov 11, 2007
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                    Quite correct. As it says in the IKCAC rules .... "The Interkingdom
                    Combat Archery Competition is a target competition shot with combat
                    gear, which provides the combat archer of the SCA with an opportunity
                    to compete with other archers from all Kingdoms of the Known World."

                    If more people would actually read the rules there would be less
                    confusion. ;-)

                    Jon

                    On Nov 11, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Carolus wrote:

                    > When I was Caid's Master of archers there was a question of who could
                    > run an IKCAC. I wanted to run one at an event on the target range
                    > and we had people say we couldn't because all the heavy marshals and
                    > CA marshals would be on the fighting field. I stressed that as we
                    > were not shooting at people it was a target shoot which simply used
                    > different equipment standards. This view finally prevailed but not
                    > without considerable discussion. There does seem to be considerable
                    > confusion on this point.
                    > Carolus


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Eadric Anstapa
                    I have never seen that confusion here and when I have seen it come up, once folks thought about it for 30 seconds and realized it can t be combat, sensible
                    Message 9 of 18 , Nov 11, 2007
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                      I have never seen that confusion here and when I have seen it come up,
                      once folks thought about it for 30 seconds and realized it can't be
                      combat, sensible attitudes quickly prevailed and any debate ended.

                      Ya aren't in full armor, you don't have to be authorized, you aren't
                      shooting at people, it cant be Combat.

                      It is no more "combat" than me grabbing a sword and going out back and
                      hitting on a pell is.

                      The first line of the IKCAC rules reads:

                      "The Interkingdom Combat Archery Competition is a target competition
                      shot with combat gear"

                      It's target archery.

                      -EA


                      Carolus wrote:
                      > When I was Caid's Master of archers there was a question of who could
                      > run an IKCAC. I wanted to run one at an event on the target range
                      > and we had people say we couldn't because all the heavy marshals and
                      > CA marshals would be on the fighting field. I stressed that as we
                      > were not shooting at people it was a target shoot which simply used
                      > different equipment standards. This view finally prevailed but not
                      > without considerable discussion. There does seem to be considerable
                      > confusion on this point.
                      > Carolus
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Rusty McMillan
                      Jon, Isn t hoping people will read the rules kind of like expecting us men in the group to ask for directions? It s much more fun to THINK you know where you
                      Message 10 of 18 , Nov 11, 2007
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                        Jon,

                        Isn't hoping people will read the rules kind of like expecting us men in the group to ask for directions? It's much more fun to THINK you know where you are, than to KNOW you have been lost for the past hour! Thank you for once again bringing clarification to the confusion. I am hoping to see more CA components to shoots in our area, and plan to get with Lady Zinaida to promote such at Darkwood events.

                        Randal

                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
                        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 11:08:46 AM
                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Seneca run question













                        Quite correct. As it says in the IKCAC rules .... "The Interkingdom

                        Combat Archery Competition is a target competition shot with combat

                        gear, which provides the combat archer of the SCA with an opportunity

                        to compete with other archers from all Kingdoms of the Known World."



                        If more people would actually read the rules there would be less

                        confusion. ;-)



                        Jon



                        On Nov 11, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Carolus wrote:



                        > When I was Caid's Master of archers there was a question of who could

                        > run an IKCAC. I wanted to run one at an event on the target range

                        > and we had people say we couldn't because all the heavy marshals and

                        > CA marshals would be on the fighting field. I stressed that as we

                        > were not shooting at people it was a target shoot which simply used

                        > different equipment standards. This view finally prevailed but not

                        > without considerable discussion. There does seem to be considerable

                        > confusion on this point.

                        > Carolus



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                      • John edgerton
                        But I always know where I am going. Oops! I knew I should have turned left at Albuquerque. Also at some sites it is sometimes possible to have shoots using
                        Message 11 of 18 , Nov 11, 2007
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                          But I always know where I am going. Oops! I knew I should have
                          turned left at Albuquerque.

                          Also at some sites it is sometimes possible to have shoots using CA
                          gear at targets when the site does not allow regular archery equipment.

                          Jon

                          On Nov 11, 2007, at 1:34 PM, Rusty McMillan wrote:

                          > Jon,
                          >
                          > Isn't hoping people will read the rules kind of like expecting us
                          > men in the group to ask for directions? It's much more fun to THINK
                          > you know where you are, than to KNOW you have been lost for the
                          > past hour! Thank you for once again bringing clarification to the
                          > confusion. I am hoping to see more CA components to shoots in our
                          > area, and plan to get with Lady Zinaida to promote such at Darkwood
                          > events.
                          >
                          > Randal
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message ----
                          > From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
                          > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 11:08:46 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Seneca run question
                          >
                          > Quite correct. As it says in the IKCAC rules .... "The Interkingdom
                          >
                          > Combat Archery Competition is a target competition shot with combat
                          >
                          > gear, which provides the combat archer of the SCA with an opportunity
                          >
                          > to compete with other archers from all Kingdoms of the Known World."
                          >
                          > If more people would actually read the rules there would be less
                          >
                          > confusion. ;-)
                          >
                          > Jon
                          >
                          > On Nov 11, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Carolus wrote:
                          >
                          > > When I was Caid's Master of archers there was a question of who
                          > could
                          >
                          > > run an IKCAC. I wanted to run one at an event on the target range
                          >
                          > > and we had people say we couldn't because all the heavy marshals and
                          >
                          > > CA marshals would be on the fighting field. I stressed that as we
                          >
                          > > were not shooting at people it was a target shoot which simply used
                          >
                          > > different equipment standards. This view finally prevailed but not
                          >
                          > > without considerable discussion. There does seem to be considerable
                          >
                          > > confusion on this point.
                          >
                          > > Carolus
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
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                        • RJ Bachner
                          Heya No I t is not a stupid question and one many have tried before, the short answer is don t. The long answer is somewhat more complicated and yes you can
                          Message 12 of 18 , Nov 11, 2007
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                            Heya

                            No I t is not a stupid question and one many have tried before, the short
                            answer is don't.

                            The long answer is somewhat more complicated and yes you can heat the bow
                            and regain some of the cast and draw weight but not by steaming. You use dry
                            heat from a heat gun and basically heat treat the bow wood while allowing
                            the now hot wood to slowly bend back to shape under soft but continuous
                            pressure or weight.

                            This will do two things, it will allow the wood to be reshaped and it will
                            harden the wood cells somewhat making the wood more resistant to bending but
                            also more brittle and if not done right will cause your bow to become 2
                            halves not connected by anything.

                            Even if everything goes well, you will probably still have a lot of set and
                            not gain back all that was lost. I don't recommend you try unless you are a
                            better than fair hand at tillering a wooden bow.

                            If you still wish to try, let me know and I will explain how to do it in
                            more detail.

                            Ragi

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of The RenLibrarian
                            Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:33 PM
                            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re-steaming a selfbow

                            There's a good chance this falls under the "stupid question"
                            category, but here goes. I inherited a selfbow from a friend who
                            left the area. It is unbacked and has a "D" cross section (curved
                            belly). I'm guessing that at some point my friend left his bow
                            strung for an extended period of time, as the limbs have taken on a
                            fairly distinctive bend, depriving the bow of power (it is stamped at
                            a 45# draw, but it presently has a draw of around 33#).

                            Here is the question: would it be possible to straighten the bow back
                            out by steaming it and then clamping it into shape? Would it be
                            worth the effort? Thank you very much!

                            -Conchobhar


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                            [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]

                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • lindorie55
                            Why not??? It is something very different for those of us who cannot usually take part in CA. I can t afford the armor at this time, nor being without health
                            Message 13 of 18 , Nov 12, 2007
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                              Why not??? It is something very different for those of us who cannot
                              usually take part in CA. I can't afford the armor at this time, nor
                              being without health insurance won't take on the additional risk of
                              being on the melee field. The opportunity to put on the helm and
                              gloves and try to shoot at a target with a combat bow and arrows with
                              apds and 'points' gave me a greater appreciation of what my brothers
                              and sisters have to do on the field. It was also a whole lot of fun.

                              I believe that there are also some groups in Ansteorra that require
                              their 'defenders' to participate in more than one category...in fact
                              some require two or more. Those may include target archery, arts and
                              sciences, rapier, thrown weapons, bardic, etc.

                              When you try something different, people remember it. If they enjoy
                              it...they come back.

                              Lyneya

                              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Tyr vonWolfsberg" <wolfe351@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Greetings,
                              >
                              > Why stick CA into a target archery shoot? Prehaps your heavies have
                              > tournaments where they have to shoot target archery? Maybe a knife
                              or
                              > axe throw would fit in better? It sounds fun otherwise.
                              >
                              >
                              > > For us typically the last station is a CA shoot and you have to
                              > put on
                              > > gauntlets and a helm (or gloves and a rapier mask) and shoot a
                              CA
                              > legal
                              > > bow and CA ammo at an IKCAC target.
                              >
                              >
                              > Other questions replied to:
                              >
                              > Here in the Outlands, we have a Royal Archer tournament. Because of
                              > the distance across the kingdom,
                              >
                              > it takes place simultaneously in two places at once, with pre-
                              arranged
                              > targets and distances. A phone call
                              >
                              > from one site to the other, high score wins for the year.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > YIS,
                              >
                              > Tyr
                              >
                            • John and Carol Atkins
                              When we held the Southern Atlantian Archery Day event this summer in Atlantia we got a lot of heat for hosting an event without heavy fighting. Our objective
                              Message 14 of 18 , Nov 12, 2007
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                                When we held the Southern Atlantian Archery Day event this summer in
                                Atlantia we got a lot of heat for hosting an event without heavy
                                fighting. Our objective was for the event to be all about archery.
                                And as our current king has mandated that the only kill to be
                                acknowledged from a combat archer is a face kill after
                                acknowledgement of sight has been made, like with heavies, we
                                decided to include CA in our target archery event. We have also
                                been trying to get more people involved in combat archery and felt
                                this may be an opportunity to let folks try it out without the
                                expense of purchasing armor then getting authorized, et al. Thus we
                                designed the following shoots and participating archers needed only
                                helm, guantlets and SCA approved combat equipment (bows and
                                shafts). The archers did not have to be CA authroized to
                                participate.

                                A one gallon milk jug was placed on a post 40 feet out. The archer
                                got 9 shafts. The objective was to hit the milk jug at least 8
                                times.

                                We have a castle to shoot/fight from/around. The archer had to
                                shoot the milk jug (mentioned above) while moving. Two shafts each
                                from a window, door, window in that order.

                                To simulate what life is like for a CA during a battle, they were
                                again shooting at the milk jug. But this time the marshal stood off
                                from the archer and threw tennis balls at them. This was a
                                distraction much like being in the middle of a melee and trying to
                                hit a target.

                                The final shot was again shooting at the milk jug while having
                                tennis balls thrown at the archer but this time there was a pavase
                                for the archer to hide behind. The objective was to shoot 9 shafts
                                without/before being hit with a tennis ball. The archer had to
                                stary within a four foot circle but had the pavase to hide behind.

                                It was great fun, but unfortunately we did not have as many archers
                                as we would have liked to have had. All in all it was practice for
                                combat archers in as combat like conditions as we could create
                                without involving heavies and all the required authorization et al.

                                cog
                              • logantheboweyder
                                I will concur with Ragi. You can probably get it straight or even reflexed. Steaming likely would work, if you wanted to dry for a year afterwards. But the
                                Message 15 of 18 , Nov 12, 2007
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                                  I will concur with Ragi. You can probably get it straight or even
                                  reflexed. Steaming likely would work, if you wanted to dry for a
                                  year afterwards. But the bow you would get would be much more
                                  likely to fail.

                                  As well, a narrow bow that has taken on set likely has fretting
                                  occuring (whether you can see it or not). The taking of set (string
                                  follow) is a warning that the bow is in the process of failing.

                                  Hang your bow on a wall, admire it, and use it as a model for making
                                  your next bow.

                                  Logan

                                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "RJ Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Heya
                                  >
                                  > No I t is not a stupid question and one many have tried before,
                                  the short
                                  > answer is don't.
                                  ...
                                  > Even if everything goes well, you will probably still have a lot
                                  of set and
                                  > not gain back all that was lost. I don't recommend you try unless
                                  you are a
                                  > better than fair hand at tillering a wooden bow.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Ragi
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-
                                  Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  > Behalf Of The RenLibrarian
                                  > Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:33 PM
                                  > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re-steaming a selfbow
                                  >
                                  I inherited a selfbow from a friend who
                                  > left the area. It is unbacked and has a "D" cross section
                                  (curved
                                  > belly). I'm guessing that at some point my friend left his bow
                                  > strung for an extended period of time, as the limbs have taken on
                                  a
                                  > fairly distinctive bend, depriving the bow of power (it is stamped
                                  at
                                  > a 45# draw, but it presently has a draw of around 33#).
                                  >
                                  > Here is the question: would it be possible to straighten the bow
                                  back
                                  > out by steaming it and then clamping it into shape? Would it be
                                  > worth the effort? Thank you very much!
                                  >
                                  > -Conchobhar
                                • Oakes, George
                                  I m no way a bowyer by any means. It is something I want to do very much, but do not have a bowyer localy who will teach me. So I have been researching making
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Nov 12, 2007
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                                    I'm no way a bowyer by any means. It is something I want to do very
                                    much, but do not have a bowyer localy who will teach me.

                                    So I have been researching making a selfbow on my own.

                                    I have made a fiberglass/wood takedown recurve by using thin strips of
                                    wood, and fiberglas from Bingham Projects a long time ago, but this is
                                    the extent
                                    of my knowledge.

                                    But based on stuff I have read about making selfbows, would it possible
                                    to add a backing????? like a linen, or another wood? bamboo? and as it
                                    is being glued up remove the set by gluing it up and clamping it in such
                                    a way as to remove the 'Set" ?

                                    You may need to re-tiller the bow to bring the drawweight back down?

                                    Again, I am just utilizing some of the wood working knowledge I have,
                                    but without specific knowledge of selfbow making, I may be going the
                                    wrong way? Forgive me if I have this wrong.

                                    Peace
                                    Gavin K.

                                    ________________________________

                                    From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com]
                                    On Behalf Of Lord Godwin FitzGilbert de Strigoil
                                    Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 4:24 PM
                                    To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Re-steaming a selfbow



                                    The process of bending a wooden bow, partially destroys the celluar
                                    composition
                                    of the wood. This cannot be undone.

                                    You can remove most of the set the bow has taken, using dry heat.... but
                                    the set
                                    will just come back, and you will have removed moisture in the process,
                                    so you
                                    may have shortened the life of the bow more than just leaving it alone.

                                    Perhaps shortening the limbs (retillering), would solve your poundage
                                    problem.
                                    Although all this depends on the wood type.

                                    Godwin

                                    > There's a good chance this falls under the "stupid question"
                                    >
                                    >category, but here goes. I inherited a selfbow from a friend who
                                    >
                                    >left the area. It is unbacked and has a "D" cross section (curved
                                    >
                                    >belly). I'm guessing that at some point my friend left his bow
                                    >
                                    >strung for an extended period of time, as the limbs have taken on a
                                    >
                                    >fairly distinctive bend, depriving the bow of power (it is stamped at
                                    >
                                    >a 45# draw, but it presently has a draw of around 33#).
                                    >
                                    >Here is the question: would it be possible to straighten the bow back
                                    >
                                    >out by steaming it and then clamping it into shape? Would it be
                                    >
                                    >worth the effort? Thank you very much!

                                    >
                                    >-Conchobhar

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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • jameswolfden
                                    Adding a backing might help a little. It would have to be wood or bamboo backing and not a cloth backing. As has been pointed out, the problem is that the
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Nov 12, 2007
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                                      Adding a backing might help a little. It would have to be wood or
                                      bamboo backing and not a cloth backing. As has been pointed out, the
                                      problem is that the cells on belly of bow have been damaged. So you
                                      could add a backing and then try retillering the bow and, hopefully,
                                      scrapping away the damaged portion of the belly.

                                      Or you could try the dry heat, take some of the set out and hope
                                      that you have cooked it just enough to strengthen the crushed belly
                                      cells. You are trying to dry out the wood to take some of its
                                      flexibility away but not dry it too much to destroy the cells even
                                      more. Personally, I have not have too much success with this
                                      technique.

                                      My own thought would be to do nothing. Accept that it has lost some
                                      of its cast and get as much life out of it as possible. You can then
                                      decided if you want to make your own bow or buy another one at some
                                      point. If you are going to make one, it's nice to have a bow you can
                                      already shoot so you don't feel the need to rush the bow. If you are
                                      going to buy one, keep using the old one and everytime you do, put a
                                      couple of dollars into your New Bow Jar.

                                      It has been suggested that the permanent set (I prefer the term
                                      stringfollow) was caused by leaving the bow braced for too long.
                                      While that is a possibility, another possibility is that the bow was
                                      drawn back too far. The best selfbows are really designed for one
                                      person and one drawlength. You can 'overbuild' a bow for safety and
                                      to handle longer drawlengths but at a cost of efficiency, cast, and
                                      arrow speed.

                                      James
                                      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Oakes, George" <goakes@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >

                                      > But based on stuff I have read about making selfbows, would it
                                      possible
                                      > to add a backing????? like a linen, or another wood? bamboo? and
                                      as it
                                      > is being glued up remove the set by gluing it up and clamping it
                                      in such
                                      > a way as to remove the 'Set" ?
                                      >
                                      > You may need to re-tiller the bow to bring the drawweight back
                                      down?
                                    • Lord Godwin FitzGilbert de Strigoil
                                      The process of bending a wooden bow, partially destroys the celluar composition of the wood. This cannot be undone. You can remove most of the set the bow has
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Nov 12, 2007
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                                        The process of bending a wooden bow, partially destroys the celluar composition
                                        of the wood. This cannot be undone.

                                        You can remove most of the set the bow has taken, using dry heat.... but the set
                                        will just come back, and you will have removed moisture in the process, so you
                                        may have shortened the life of the bow more than just leaving it alone.

                                        Perhaps shortening the limbs (retillering), would solve your poundage problem.
                                        Although all this depends on the wood type.

                                        Godwin

                                        > There's a good chance this falls under the "stupid question"
                                        >
                                        >category, but here goes. I inherited a selfbow from a friend who
                                        >
                                        >left the area. It is unbacked and has a "D" cross section (curved
                                        >
                                        >belly). I'm guessing that at some point my friend left his bow
                                        >
                                        >strung for an extended period of time, as the limbs have taken on a
                                        >
                                        >fairly distinctive bend, depriving the bow of power (it is stamped at
                                        >
                                        >a 45# draw, but it presently has a draw of around 33#).
                                        >
                                        >Here is the question: would it be possible to straighten the bow back
                                        >
                                        >out by steaming it and then clamping it into shape? Would it be
                                        >
                                        >worth the effort? Thank you very much!

                                        >
                                        >-Conchobhar

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