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IKAC Status and period shoots

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  • John and Carol Atkins
    For my two cents worth on the subject of period shoots, I think they would be great, BUT.............. Here s that word. In my area we have had many folks
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 8, 2007
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      For my two cents worth on the subject of period shoots, I think they
      would be great, BUT.............. Here's that word. In my area we
      have had many folks join our group (and the SCA) through/becasue of
      archery. As we all know to get reasonably good at archery it takes
      lots of practice. Modern recurve bows "help" the archer. By that I
      mean, they are typically easier to shoot for a variety of reasons.
      Yes, I can buy a wood bow from any number of sources on the Internet
      or in person for under $100 but the truth is, these bows are
      difficult to shoot. They are more critical for setting up and
      matching arrow spine to draw weight, etc., etc. I'M NOT KNOCKING
      WOOD BOWS. I have 14 bows hanging in my garage right now, some are
      all wood and real beauties. But new archers are looking for some
      degree of success to stay encouraged to stay with the sport. How
      many of us have seen a new archer doing the happy dance because
      they "finally hit the target" (forget for what score) at 20 yards?

      My point here is period is fine, for those of us who have been in
      archery for a while and have developed a degree of skill at the
      sport. For new people let's not hamper them with rules requiring
      expensive equipment that is more difficult to use.

      How many fighters would have become active fighters if the only way
      they could have stepped on the field is with "period" armor? The
      guy at Pennsic who sells plastic armor does a fine business for a
      reason - he serves the new fighter community. As they get better,
      like archers, they improve their equipment to a more period
      appearance. Perhaps that is the goal for the archery community.
      Get them in, get them hooked, get them improved (meaning more
      period).

      cog
    • David
      I would say this hit the target... speaking as someone trying to establish an archery/live weapons group I know that cost is playing a big part in what people
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 8, 2007
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        I would say this hit the target... speaking as someone trying to
        establish an archery/live weapons group I know that cost is playing
        a big part in what people purchase to get started. I know when I
        started in heavy fighting most of my armor that wasn't visibly
        exposed was plastic because it was much less expensive and got me on
        the field faster. I am encountering the same with establishing a
        group... bow, arrows (fiber glass and wood) in my case targets and
        back stop materials, then you have those that also want to do the
        throwing knives and axes (I'd toss spears in but to be honest I
        haven't found a place to buy them). Just like starting in heavy
        fighting the outlay can be several hundred dollars but in this case
        for something you may or may not use more than a few times a year,
        granted once established where pratices can occur, etc. it will be a
        better seen investment. Right now for a lot of people its "I'll wait
        and see" which makes it tough to get started. So pointing out the
        period bows which look to require more skill, patience and practice
        in my case would be a detriment to getting a group started.

        The newbie 2 cents ....

        Thanks
        Egon DerRichter

        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "John and Carol Atkins"
        <cogworks@...> wrote:
        >
        > For my two cents worth on the subject of period shoots, I think
        they
        > would be great, BUT.............. Here's that word. In my area
        we
        > have had many folks join our group (and the SCA) through/becasue
        of
        > archery. As we all know to get reasonably good at archery it
        takes
        > lots of practice. Modern recurve bows "help" the archer. By that
        I
        > mean, they are typically easier to shoot for a variety of
        reasons.
        > Yes, I can buy a wood bow from any number of sources on the
        Internet
        > or in person for under $100 but the truth is, these bows are
        > difficult to shoot. They are more critical for setting up and
        > matching arrow spine to draw weight, etc., etc. I'M NOT KNOCKING
        > WOOD BOWS. I have 14 bows hanging in my garage right now, some
        are
        > all wood and real beauties. But new archers are looking for some
        > degree of success to stay encouraged to stay with the sport. How
        > many of us have seen a new archer doing the happy dance because
        > they "finally hit the target" (forget for what score) at 20 yards?
        >
        > My point here is period is fine, for those of us who have been in
        > archery for a while and have developed a degree of skill at the
        > sport. For new people let's not hamper them with rules requiring
        > expensive equipment that is more difficult to use.
        >
        > How many fighters would have become active fighters if the only
        way
        > they could have stepped on the field is with "period" armor? The
        > guy at Pennsic who sells plastic armor does a fine business for a
        > reason - he serves the new fighter community. As they get better,
        > like archers, they improve their equipment to a more period
        > appearance. Perhaps that is the goal for the archery community.
        > Get them in, get them hooked, get them improved (meaning more
        > period).
        >
        > cog
        >
      • Ben Reeder
        Speaking as a re-newbie, after being out for 10 years or so before getting back in, the true aim is indeed to get the newbie to the awesome wood bow with no
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 8, 2007
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          Speaking as a re-newbie, after being out for 10 years or so before getting back in, the true aim is indeed to get the newbie to the awesome wood bow with no shelf and horn nocks, etc. But like anything worthwhile, this is a journey, not a job interview. We don't show up to the field that first time ready to win our first IKAC competition or walk away with Crown tourney under our belts. So, yeah, start with that fiberglass bow. Just dont' stay with it. And, when we get that first decent recurve, we become the example that the next set of fresh faced newbies comes to emulate. When we get to the awesome longbow with horn tips and that set of hand fletched arrows, we become what we once tried to be. I don't think that journey would be as satisfying if we were required to start at the top and coast along. Period shoots are ways to recreate teh Middle Ages, yeah, and great to have as a part of period archery. But, the more important part here, at least in my eyes, isn't
          as much the target as the archer. The target just gets shot at. The archer is the one who displays the best parts of the current Middle Ages, whether in a down to the stitches recreation of a period archer's clothing or in a t-tunic and wal-mart firberglass bow and quiver. In the end, people can see the spirit we bring to the line, and they can see that spirit in the way we progress as archers. The targets represent that spirit, yes, in that they show our dedication to our sport (for lack of a better word). But they are only a part of our overall contribution to the Society.

          Just my two schillings worth,

          Jon Strongebowe
          Shire of Oakheart, Calontir


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John edgerton
          Well said. Jon ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 8, 2007
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            Well said.

            Jon
            On Nov 8, 2007, at 10:19 AM, Ben Reeder wrote:

            > Speaking as a re-newbie, after being out for 10 years or so before
            > getting back in, the true aim is indeed to get the newbie to the
            > awesome wood bow with no shelf and horn nocks, etc. But like
            > anything worthwhile, this is a journey, not a job interview. We
            > don't show up to the field that first time ready to win our first
            > IKAC competition or walk away with Crown tourney under our belts.
            > So, yeah, start with that fiberglass bow. Just dont' stay with it.
            > And, when we get that first decent recurve, we become the example
            > that the next set of fresh faced newbies comes to emulate. When we
            > get to the awesome longbow with horn tips and that set of hand
            > fletched arrows, we become what we once tried to be. I don't think
            > that journey would be as satisfying if we were required to start at
            > the top and coast along. Period shoots are ways to recreate teh
            > Middle Ages, yeah, and great to have as a part of period archery.
            > But, the more important part here, at least in my eyes, isn't
            > as much the target as the archer. The target just gets shot at. The
            > archer is the one who displays the best parts of the current Middle
            > Ages, whether in a down to the stitches recreation of a period
            > archer's clothing or in a t-tunic and wal-mart firberglass bow and
            > quiver. In the end, people can see the spirit we bring to the line,
            > and they can see that spirit in the way we progress as archers. The
            > targets represent that spirit, yes, in that they show our
            > dedication to our sport (for lack of a better word). But they are
            > only a part of our overall contribution to the Society.
            >
            > Just my two schillings worth,
            >
            > Jon Strongebowe
            > Shire of Oakheart, Calontir
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Carolus
            Great post. This is the spirit I have grown up with in the SCA and try to promote. Many folks tend to forget this is a hobby many only play at for a few
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 8, 2007
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              Great post. This is the spirit I have grown up with in the SCA and
              try to promote. Many folks tend to forget this is a hobby many only
              play at for a few hours a month or week. Our events are nothing more
              than costume party socials to give us a place to share our real
              accomplishments in education. That a small few become very
              proficient in a particular activity is wonderful and the fact that
              they can present a model worthy of inspiration and emulation is
              admirable. But those people need to recognize that they are a very
              special elite. Most of the rest of the participants will never reach
              that level. We need to keep our sport accessible and inviting to the
              masses. I have been shooting over 40 years now and have watched
              archery fall from a common participant sport to a nearly invisible
              one, the SCA is one of the best places to introduce it and expand
              it. If we make it too exclusive to the common member, we sill soon
              find it unavailable to the rest of us as well.
              Carolus

              At 10:19 AM 11/8/2007, you wrote:

              >Speaking as a re-newbie, after being out for 10 years or so before
              >getting back in, the true aim is indeed to get the newbie to the
              >awesome wood bow with no shelf and horn nocks, etc. But like
              >anything worthwhile, this is a journey, not a job interview. We
              >don't show up to the field that first time ready to win our first
              >IKAC competition or walk away with Crown tourney under our belts.
              >So, yeah, start with that fiberglass bow. Just dont' stay with it.
              >And, when we get that first decent recurve, we become the example
              >that the next set of fresh faced newbies comes to emulate. When we
              >get to the awesome longbow with horn tips and that set of hand
              >fletched arrows, we become what we once tried to be. I don't think
              >that journey would be as satisfying if we were required to start at
              >the top and coast along. Period shoots are ways to recreate teh
              >Middle Ages, yeah, and great to have as a part of period archery.
              >But, the more important part here, at least in my eyes, isn't
              >as much the target as the archer. The target just gets shot at. The
              >archer is the one who displays the best parts of the current Middle
              >Ages, whether in a down to the stitches recreation of a period
              >archer's clothing or in a t-tunic and wal-mart firberglass bow and
              >quiver. In the end, people can see the spirit we bring to the line,
              >and they can see that spirit in the way we progress as archers. The
              >targets represent that spirit, yes, in that they show our dedication
              >to our sport (for lack of a better word). But they are only a part
              >of our overall contribution to the Society.
              >
              >Just my two schillings worth,
              >
              >Jon Strongebowe
              >Shire of Oakheart, Calontir
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >No virus found in this incoming message.
              >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              >Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.24/1117 - Release Date:
              >11/7/2007 10:52 PM


              --
              No virus found in this outgoing message.
              Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.24/1117 - Release Date: 11/7/2007 10:52 PM
            • Lord Godwin FitzGilbert de Strigoil
              Jon, Exactly the way it should be done. My first bow ever was in 1999, and it was a PSE Impala, with store bought target arrows. As my skill and knowledge
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 9, 2007
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                Jon,

                Exactly the way it should be done.

                My first bow ever was in 1999, and it was a PSE Impala, with 'store bought'
                target arrows. As my skill and knowledge increased, I dropped a modern aspect and
                adopted a more period one, in shooting or building tackle. So for most of this,
                I am self taught, as there was really nobody in my region offering classes. I did
                take bow classes from two well known bowyers(Jay St. Charles/John Strunk).

                This I kept doing in continuous cycles, till now I build my own longbows, my own
                arrows, my own strings, tool my own leather accessories. It was the path I chose
                from the very beginning.

                And absolutely nobody has to go beyond the minimum requirements for garb and
                equipment, if that's what they want to do. However, I tell people there is
                absolutely nothing like taking a shoot, with equipment that you have built yourself.

                What I want to do, is show that the 'period path' is fun, exciting and very
                rewarding. I would like to think I've been fairly successful, based on the number
                of people asking for classes.

                As for period shoots, there is no reason to limit ourselves. I've run a clout
                shoot right before a 'who can drain the gallon zip-lock bag first' shoot. Or the
                quintain shoot I developed over 6 years ago.... it's an arrow eater, but that's
                part of the challenge and fun. Don't get me wrong, I would rather shoot a clout
                or york, or a roving range any day of the week, but there are so many other
                shoots that are not period, that offer a great deal of fun and .

                Well met Jon.

                Godwin fitzGilbert de Strigoil


                >>Speaking as a re-newbie, after being out for 10 years or so before
                >
                >>getting back in, the true aim is indeed to get the newbie to the
                >
                >>awesome wood bow with no shelf and horn nocks, etc. But like
                >
                >>anything worthwhile, this is a journey, not a job interview. We
                >
                >>don't show up to the field that first time ready to win our first
                >
                >>IKAC competition or walk away with Crown tourney under our belts.
                >
                >>So, yeah, start with that fiberglass bow. Just dont' stay with it.
                >
                >>And, when we get that first decent recurve, we become the example
                >
                >>that the next set of fresh faced newbies comes to emulate. When we
                >
                >>get to the awesome longbow with horn tips and that set of hand
                >
                >>fletched arrows, we become what we once tried to be. I don't think
                >
                >>that journey would be as satisfying if we were required to start at
                >
                >>the top and coast along. Period shoots are ways to recreate teh
                >
                >>Middle Ages, yeah, and great to have as a part of period archery.
                >
                >>But, the more important part here, at least in my eyes, isn't
                >
                >>as much the target as the archer. The target just gets shot at. The
                >
                >>archer is the one who displays the best parts of the current Middle
                >
                >>Ages, whether in a down to the stitches recreation of a period
                >
                >>archer's clothing or in a t-tunic and wal-mart firberglass bow and
                >
                >>quiver. In the end, people can see the spirit we bring to the line,
                >
                >>and they can see that spirit in the way we progress as archers. The
                >
                >>targets represent that spirit, yes, in that they show our dedication
                >
                >>to our sport (for lack of a better word). But they are only a part
                >
                >>of our overall contribution to the Society.
                >
                >>
                >
                >>Just my two schillings worth,
                >
                >>
                >
                >>Jon Strongebowe
                >
                >>Shire of Oakheart, Calontir

                ---- Msg sent via CableONE.net MyMail - http://www.cableone.net
              • Lord Godwin FitzGilbert de Strigoil
                Jon, Exactly the way it should be done. My first bow ever was in 1999, and it was a PSE Impala, with store bought target arrows. As my skill and knowledge
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 9, 2007
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                  Jon,

                  Exactly the way it should be done.

                  My first bow ever was in 1999, and it was a PSE Impala, with 'store bought'
                  target arrows. As my skill and knowledge increased, I dropped a modern aspect and
                  adopted a more period one, in shooting or building tackle. So for most of this,
                  I am self taught, as there was really nobody in my region offering classes. I did
                  take bow classes from two well known bowyers(Jay St. Charles/John Strunk).

                  This I kept doing in continuous cycles, till now I build my own longbows, my own
                  arrows, my own strings, tool my own leather accessories. It was the path I chose
                  from the very beginning.

                  And absolutely nobody has to go beyond the minimum requirements for garb and
                  equipment, if that's what they want to do. However, I tell people there is
                  absolutely nothing like taking a shoot, with equipment that you have built yourself.

                  What I want to do, is show that the 'period path' is fun, exciting and very
                  rewarding. I would like to think I've been fairly successful, based on the number
                  of people asking for classes.

                  As for period shoots, there is no reason to limit ourselves. I've run a clout
                  shoot right before a 'who can drain the gallon zip-lock bag first' shoot. Or the
                  quintain shoot I developed over 6 years ago.... it's an arrow eater, but that's
                  part of the challenge and fun. Don't get me wrong, I would rather shoot a clout
                  or york, or a roving range any day of the week, but there are so many other
                  shoots that are not period, that offer a great deal of fun and camaraderie.

                  Well met Jon.

                  Godwin fitzGilbert de Strigoil


                  >>Speaking as a re-newbie, after being out for 10 years or so before
                  >
                  >>getting back in, the true aim is indeed to get the newbie to the
                  >
                  >>awesome wood bow with no shelf and horn nocks, etc. But like
                  >
                  >>anything worthwhile, this is a journey, not a job interview. We
                  >
                  >>don't show up to the field that first time ready to win our first
                  >
                  >>IKAC competition or walk away with Crown tourney under our belts.
                  >
                  >>So, yeah, start with that fiberglass bow. Just dont' stay with it.
                  >
                  >>And, when we get that first decent recurve, we become the example
                  >
                  >>that the next set of fresh faced newbies comes to emulate. When we
                  >
                  >>get to the awesome longbow with horn tips and that set of hand
                  >
                  >>fletched arrows, we become what we once tried to be. I don't think
                  >
                  >>that journey would be as satisfying if we were required to start at
                  >
                  >>the top and coast along. Period shoots are ways to recreate teh
                  >
                  >>Middle Ages, yeah, and great to have as a part of period archery.
                  >
                  >>But, the more important part here, at least in my eyes, isn't
                  >
                  >>as much the target as the archer. The target just gets shot at. The
                  >
                  >>archer is the one who displays the best parts of the current Middle
                  >
                  >>Ages, whether in a down to the stitches recreation of a period
                  >
                  >>archer's clothing or in a t-tunic and wal-mart firberglass bow and
                  >
                  >>quiver. In the end, people can see the spirit we bring to the line,
                  >
                  >>and they can see that spirit in the way we progress as archers. The
                  >
                  >>targets represent that spirit, yes, in that they show our dedication
                  >
                  >>to our sport (for lack of a better word). But they are only a part
                  >
                  >>of our overall contribution to the Society.
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>Just my two schillings worth,
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>Jon Strongebowe
                  >
                  >>Shire of Oakheart, Calontir

                  ---- Msg sent via CableONE.net MyMail - http://www.cableone.net
                • arturdubh
                  One thing I didn t see covered in all the well-worded responses (I may have missed it, it is past time to get some sleep)... There are many people who wish to
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 7, 2007
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                    One thing I didn't see covered in all the well-worded responses (I
                    may have missed it, it is past time to get some sleep)...

                    There are many people who wish to use "period" equipment, but for
                    various reasons -- such as limited amounts of "extra" money after
                    paying bills, or no space or time in which to make their own
                    equipment -- are unable to acquire "period" equipment. Myself, when I
                    have the money I do not have the space, and when I have the space I
                    usually do not have the money; if I have the money and space, I
                    usually do not have the time. Now that I have the time to make my
                    own, I do not have the money (tools cost money, you know...I finally
                    got a piece of wood to use, though), and I no longer have the space
                    needed (some drying logs are taking it all up...).

                    There are many reasons to use "period" equipment -- and just as many
                    (if not more) why "period" equipment may be out of reach for many
                    people. Requiring archers at SCA Archery events to use only "period"
                    equipment (unless it actually IS a "specialty" event) would be akin
                    to requiring attendees at SCA events to wear only "period" clothing
                    made of "period" textiles sewn in only "period" patterns using
                    only "period" methods; not everyone will want to -- or be able to
                    afford to -- be that Authentic.

                    Just my opinion.

                    --Artúr


                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "John and Carol Atkins"
                    <cogworks@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > For my two cents worth on the subject of period shoots, I think
                    they
                    > would be great, BUT.............. Here's that word. In my area we
                    > have had many folks join our group (and the SCA) through/becasue of
                    > archery. As we all know to get reasonably good at archery it takes
                    > lots of practice. Modern recurve bows "help" the archer. By that
                    I
                    > mean, they are typically easier to shoot for a variety of reasons.
                    > Yes, I can buy a wood bow from any number of sources on the
                    Internet
                    > or in person for under $100 but the truth is, these bows are
                    > difficult to shoot. They are more critical for setting up and
                    > matching arrow spine to draw weight, etc., etc. I'M NOT KNOCKING
                    > WOOD BOWS. I have 14 bows hanging in my garage right now, some are
                    > all wood and real beauties. But new archers are looking for some
                    > degree of success to stay encouraged to stay with the sport. How
                    > many of us have seen a new archer doing the happy dance because
                    > they "finally hit the target" (forget for what score) at 20 yards?
                    >
                    > My point here is period is fine, for those of us who have been in
                    > archery for a while and have developed a degree of skill at the
                    > sport. For new people let's not hamper them with rules requiring
                    > expensive equipment that is more difficult to use.
                    >
                    > How many fighters would have become active fighters if the only way
                    > they could have stepped on the field is with "period" armor? The
                    > guy at Pennsic who sells plastic armor does a fine business for a
                    > reason - he serves the new fighter community. As they get better,
                    > like archers, they improve their equipment to a more period
                    > appearance. Perhaps that is the goal for the archery community.
                    > Get them in, get them hooked, get them improved (meaning more
                    > period).
                    >
                    > cog
                    >
                  • jameswolfden
                    Your opinion is both valuable and a common one. But what I will add here is also common among those of us trying to promote the use of period gear. Nobody is
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 8, 2007
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                      Your opinion is both valuable and a common one. But what I will add here is also common
                      among those of us trying to promote the use of period gear.

                      Nobody is trying to restrict archery to only 'period' gear. I see it as a progression that
                      mirrors other aspects of one's involvement in the SCA.

                      I started with a Ragim Victory Takedown Recurve. I still have a Checkmate Recurve for
                      when I do combat archery. But my preference is to shoot period gear. My current target
                      bow is a Elm longbow I made myself. My arrows are port orford cedar with wrapped self
                      nocks and hand cut fletching.

                      By the same nature, my first garb was a tunic made of cotton/polyester blend and jogging
                      pants (100% synthetic). I now wear linen and/or wool braies, hose, tunic, and cotehardie. I
                      am working on some turnshoes. My drive is towards being more period both in my
                      equipment, my garb, and my approach to the A&S of archery.

                      If a newcomer asks me what bow should he get, I will steer him towards the modern
                      recurve. Of course, if he/she really wants to go with a longbow, I won't stop him.

                      I have promoted a period shoot at the Clinton War the past two years. It is open to all
                      archers and arbalests but only those shooting period gear may win the prize. I do ask the
                      archers to use the most period gear they have. The prize, one of Sir Jon's first minting of
                      the archer coin, does not have a great monetary value but holds a special significance
                      because it is the prize. One of the archers, Archos Thomas Lackland of Appledore, is also
                      a merchant who has donated prizes in addition to the coin. I am fairly liberal in deciding if
                      the gear is period. Next year, I plan on making some period gear that I can award to
                      highest finishing modern gear. Something like an arrow bag or three period arrows.

                      Lorenzo is looking at doing a period shoot as part of the IKAC but the IKAC still has the
                      Open class. Sir Jon has also suggested that the period shoot not be limited to period gear
                      but open to all gear. Again this is an idea to promote period archery (which is about more
                      than just the gear) without restricting other archers.

                      If you make your own arrows, a simple start towards period gear is self-nocked arrows.

                      In Service,
                      HL James Wolfden


                      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "arturdubh" <nasionnaich@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Requiring archers at SCA Archery events to use only "period"
                      > equipment (unless it actually IS a "specialty" event) would be akin
                      > to requiring attendees at SCA events to wear only "period" clothing
                      > made of "period" textiles sewn in only "period" patterns using
                      > only "period" methods; not everyone will want to -- or be able to
                      > afford to -- be that Authentic.
                      >
                      > Just my opinion.
                      >
                      > --Artúr
                    • ld.blackmoon
                      greetings ... i ve seen lots of articles on how to make period self nocks using 1: a nifty nocker,2: hacksaw blades, 3: a dremil tool ,but none using a period
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 8, 2007
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                        greetings

                        >If you make your own arrows, a simple start towards period gear is self-nocked arrows.

                        >In Service,
                        >HL James Wolfden

                        i've seen lots of articles on how to make period self nocks using 1: a nifty nocker,2: hacksaw blades, 3: a dremil tool ,but none using a period tool, or technique . any idea where to look to find such an article ?? or perhaps pictures ? diagrams ?

                        be safe, be happy, have fun
                        arthur blackmoon

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: jameswolfden
                        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 2:57 AM
                        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: IKAC Status and period shoots


                        Your opinion is both valuable and a common one. But what I will add here is also common
                        among those of us trying to promote the use of period gear.

                        Nobody is trying to restrict archery to only 'period' gear. I see it as a progression that
                        mirrors other aspects of one's involvement in the SCA.

                        I started with a Ragim Victory Takedown Recurve. I still have a Checkmate Recurve for
                        when I do combat archery. But my preference is to shoot period gear. My current target
                        bow is a Elm longbow I made myself. My arrows are port orford cedar with wrapped self
                        nocks and hand cut fletching.

                        By the same nature, my first garb was a tunic made of cotton/polyester blend and jogging
                        pants (100% synthetic). I now wear linen and/or wool braies, hose, tunic, and cotehardie. I
                        am working on some turnshoes. My drive is towards being more period both in my
                        equipment, my garb, and my approach to the A&S of archery.

                        If a newcomer asks me what bow should he get, I will steer him towards the modern
                        recurve. Of course, if he/she really wants to go with a longbow, I won't stop him.

                        I have promoted a period shoot at the Clinton War the past two years. It is open to all
                        archers and arbalests but only those shooting period gear may win the prize. I do ask the
                        archers to use the most period gear they have. The prize, one of Sir Jon's first minting of
                        the archer coin, does not have a great monetary value but holds a special significance
                        because it is the prize. One of the archers, Archos Thomas Lackland of Appledore, is also
                        a merchant who has donated prizes in addition to the coin. I am fairly liberal in deciding if
                        the gear is period. Next year, I plan on making some period gear that I can award to
                        highest finishing modern gear. Something like an arrow bag or three period arrows.

                        Lorenzo is looking at doing a period shoot as part of the IKAC but the IKAC still has the
                        Open class. Sir Jon has also suggested that the period shoot not be limited to period gear
                        but open to all gear. Again this is an idea to promote period archery (which is about more
                        than just the gear) without restricting other archers.

                        If you make your own arrows, a simple start towards period gear is self-nocked arrows.

                        In Service,
                        HL James Wolfden

                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "arturdubh" <nasionnaich@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Requiring archers at SCA Archery events to use only "period"
                        > equipment (unless it actually IS a "specialty" event) would be akin
                        > to requiring attendees at SCA events to wear only "period" clothing
                        > made of "period" textiles sewn in only "period" patterns using
                        > only "period" methods; not everyone will want to -- or be able to
                        > afford to -- be that Authentic.
                        >
                        > Just my opinion.
                        >
                        > --Artúr






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                      • jameswolfden
                        No, I have not found any period documentation discussing the actual how-to s of either fletchering or bowyering. I think this is where we have to look at the
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 8, 2007
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                          No, I have not found any period documentation discussing the actual how-to's of either
                          fletchering or bowyering. I think this is where we have to look at the evidence of the
                          artifacts that exist and the tools around at the time and make educated guess.

                          It was likely cut with a bow saw similar to the hacksaw method. Jigs might have been used
                          but the skill of medieval artisan producing thousands of arrows was probably better than
                          those of ours where we might make a couple of dozen arrows.

                          That said, the first step should be to make some self nocks using whatever method works.
                          Then experiment on the period techniques and tools later. At events, it is bad form to pull
                          out the magnifying glass and check whether the stitching on garb is hand sewn or
                          machine sewn... unless it is an Arts and Science competition entry.

                          If you show up on the range with a dozen self nocks and I ask you how you made them
                          and you reply that you worked up a jig on your table saw that lets you do a dozen in one
                          pass, I'm still going to go "Cool, can you send me a picture of the jig?"

                          James Wolfden


                          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "ld.blackmoon" <ld.blackmoon@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > i've seen lots of articles on how to make period self nocks using 1: a nifty nocker,2:
                          hacksaw blades, 3: a dremil tool ,but none using a period tool, or technique . any idea
                          where to look to find such an article ?? or perhaps pictures ? diagrams ?
                          >
                          > be safe, be happy, have fun
                          > arthur blackmoon
                        • atruemark@aol.com
                          I concur with James conclusion regarding documentation for either self-nocks or fletching. Apparently either the activity was of such base nature that
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 8, 2007
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                            I concur with James' conclusion regarding documentation for either
                            self-nocks or fletching. Apparently either the activity was of such base nature that
                            chroniclers felt it unworthy of documentation, or it was a guild activity and
                            medieval guilds were word-of-mouth and very secretive. In fact, Roger
                            Ascham makes a reference to this very fact in his book when he says that
                            (paraphrasing as I don't have the material in front of me) he doesn't want to
                            antagonize the fletchers (guild) by giving away their secrets. So I would conclude
                            that our lack of archival information is probably due mainly to the latter and
                            that we must, as James states, refer to the actual artifacts to try to
                            determine a period method.

                            Having said that, a survey of European tool technology of that time period
                            has surely been done...from that it may be possible to extrapolate a potential
                            answer to the question. Anyone out there a specialist in European tool
                            technology from about 1200 to 1500 A.D.?

                            Andras



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                          • Sheri Rees
                            When I ve had this discussion with Sir Aethelred or Master Gordon in the past, they seem to concur that many simple hand tools (saws, files, carving knives) we
                            Message 13 of 15 , Dec 8, 2007
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                              When I've had this discussion with Sir Aethelred or Master Gordon in
                              the past, they seem to concur that many simple hand tools (saws,
                              files, carving knives) we have now were known in that time
                              period. It's just that some of those same simple hand tools have
                              gone out of modern popularity due to new, electric (and therefore
                              exciting and maybe dangerous) tools.

                              We have a couple books on the subject, if you make it over here
                              sometime for shooting. Or if I remember, I can try to bring them to
                              Ursalmas (I might need a reminder closer to the event). Or corner
                              one of the above mentioned at AnTir Twelfth Night, I'm sure they'd
                              both appreciate the distraction from meetings.

                              Shadhra

                              At 01:02 PM 12/8/2007, you wrote:
                              >I concur with James' conclusion regarding documentation for either
                              >self-nocks or fletching. Apparently either the activity was of such
                              >base nature that
                              >chroniclers felt it unworthy of documentation, or it was a
                              >guild activity and
                              >medieval guilds were word-of-mouth and very secretive. In fact, Roger
                              >Ascham makes a reference to this very fact in his book when he says that
                              >(paraphrasing as I don't have the material in front of me) he
                              >doesn't want to
                              >antagonize the fletchers (guild) by giving away their secrets. So
                              >I would conclude
                              >that our lack of archival information is probably due mainly to the
                              >latter and
                              >that we must, as James states, refer to the actual artifacts to try to
                              >determine a period method.
                              >
                              >Having said that, a survey of European tool technology of that time period
                              >has surely been done...from that it may be possible to extrapolate a
                              >potential
                              >answer to the question. Anyone out there a specialist in European tool
                              >technology from about 1200 to 1500 A.D.?
                              >
                              >Andras
                            • arturdubh
                              ... 2007 s hottest ... NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ... Or even prior to 1200 -- say 1000 BC to 900 AD? Some of us (myself, for example) are interested in the
                              Message 14 of 15 , Dec 8, 2007
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                                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, atruemark@... wrote:
                                >
                                .... Anyone out there a specialist in European tool
                                > technology from about 1200 to 1500 A.D.?
                                >
                                > Andras
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > **************************************Check out AOL's list of
                                2007's hottest
                                > products.
                                > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
                                NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >


                                Or even prior to 1200 -- say 1000 BC to 900 AD? Some of us (myself,
                                for example) are interested in the earlier time periods... And I, for
                                one, do not have access to a large library system (I do purchase
                                books when I can), as do most people who live in large cities. (Yes,
                                there is the Inter-Library Loan System, but it can be really hard to
                                learn what you need when the book has to be returned within two
                                weeks... and internet access is limited most of the time - when it is
                                affordable)

                                Just a thought.

                                --Artúr
                              • Eadric Anstapa
                                I dont think we know exactly. It seems as if it was such common knowledge it didn t seem worth recording. We do know that they were highly skilled and had
                                Message 15 of 15 , Dec 9, 2007
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                                  I dont think we know exactly. It seems as if it was such common
                                  knowledge it didn't seem worth recording. We do know that they were
                                  highly skilled and had most any hand tool you have today. That includes
                                  sharp knives, saws, files, and drills. Any of those tools likely would
                                  have been used by various folks at various times in period. No doubt
                                  different cultures and different eras within the period covered by the
                                  SCA had different preferred methods. Something like a hacksaw blade is
                                  not too unperiod of a tool as they had very thin and fine toothed saw
                                  blades.

                                  While we don't necessarily know how it was done in SCA period Europe we
                                  do know how it is done by primitive cultures today and how it was done
                                  by Native Americans. Native American arrows, along with many other
                                  cultures that used a pinch grip, had a V cut or flared nock that it
                                  easily cut with a sharp knife. The Powhatan indians abraded the nocks
                                  into their arrows with a beaver tooth attached to a haft.

                                  For primitive arrow making techniques look at
                                  Cherokee Bows and Arrows by Al Herrin
                                  Making Indian Bows and Arrows, The Old Way, by Doug Wallentine
                                  or
                                  Making Arrows the Old Way!!, by Doug Wallentine
                                  Bows and Arrows of the Native Americans, by Jim Hamm

                                  Regards,

                                  -Eadric

                                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "ld.blackmoon" <ld.blackmoon@...> wrote:

                                  > i've seen lots of articles on how to make period self nocks using 1: a nifty nocker,2: hacksaw blades, 3: a dremil tool ,but none using a period tool, or technique . any idea
                                  > where to look to find such an article ?? or perhaps pictures ? diagrams ?be safe, be happy, have fun
                                  > arthur blackmoon
                                  >
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