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[SCA-Archery] Can I draw to another spot?

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  • Nicholas Calabria
    Greetings Geirr, ... If you travel to the Kingdom of Lochac and participate in combat archery using normal size arrows you will find that, with your helmet and
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 26, 2007
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      Greetings Geirr,

      >From: Jessica E Baas <divinite@...>
      >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Can I draw to another spot?
      >Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:05:44 -0700 (PDT)
      >
      >The point to which you draw is your anchor.
      >
      >Depending on the style of archery, who taught you, what feels right, etc.
      >your anchor might change. Kyodo shooters draw past their ears, Olympic
      >shoots draw to their chins, some mid-east styles draw to a point on their
      >chest, "traditional" shooters (which captures most of us) may draw to a
      >point on their face (crook in the mouth, thumb touching ear, etc).
      ***snip***
      >Christina

      If you travel to the Kingdom of Lochac and participate in combat archery
      using normal size arrows you will find that, with your helmet and armour on,
      you will draw to an anchor point that is often different to your usual
      target archery draw (unless you draw to a point that misses the armour eg to
      a point on your chest). Just another factor to think about, as well as a
      possible trip to the Southern parts. Good Shooting.

      Anselm
      Barony of Ynys Fawr

      >----- Original Message ----
      >From: G P <gonfannon@...>
      >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      >Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:43:56 PM
      >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Can I draw to another spot?
      >
      >What's the right term for the point to which you draw the string back
      >to? Nock point? Draw point?
      >Anyway, most people draw back to a point on the face, right? Cheek,
      >corner of the mouth, various. But you use the same one every time for
      >consistency' s sake.
      >
      >But can you use a different point altoghter, not on your face? Am I
      >remembering correctly, that I think I've seen some archers draw to a
      >point under the bow arm, near the armpit?
      >
      >Is the point of drawing to the face just for consistency' s sake, or is
      >it too hard to aim when using a different point?
      >
      >(The reason I ask is that I haven't started yet, but I'm quite tall
      >with long arms, and I'd rather be able to buy slightly shorter arrows,
      >as I think they'll be easier and perhaps even cheaper to get.)
      >
      >Thanks.
      >~Geirr
    • Carolus
      Actually, unless you need arrows longer than 32 cost isn t a factor. Drawing to a location on the face, be it mouth, ear, chin, or whatever, is a matter of
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 26, 2007
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        Actually, unless you need arrows longer than 32" cost isn't a
        factor. Drawing to a location on the face, be it mouth, ear, chin,
        or whatever, is a matter of dynamics and physiology. Drawing to
        other locations usually requires an entirely different technique to
        avoid injury. There is a reason why the western style we usually use
        has certain conventions. Most of them are for safety and others for
        consistency, thus accuracy. Work with your local marshal/coach to
        find out what is best for you.
        Carolus

        At 01:43 PM 10/26/2007, you wrote:

        >What's the right term for the point to which you draw the string back
        >to? Nock point? Draw point?
        >
        >Anyway, most people draw back to a point on the face, right? Cheek,
        >corner of the mouth, various. But you use the same one every time for
        >consistency's sake.
        >
        >But can you use a different point altoghter, not on your face? Am I
        >remembering correctly, that I think I've seen some archers draw to a
        >point under the bow arm, near the armpit?
        >
        >Is the point of drawing to the face just for consistency's sake, or is
        >it too hard to aim when using a different point?
        >
        >(The reason I ask is that I haven't started yet, but I'm quite tall
        >with long arms, and I'd rather be able to buy slightly shorter arrows,
        >as I think they'll be easier and perhaps even cheaper to get.)
        >
        >Thanks.
        >
        >~Geirr


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      • jameswolfden
        My drawlength is 26.5 to the corner of my mouth. If I anchor under the chin, string touching the nose, my draw is only 25 . Sight picture changes so I
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 27, 2007
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          My drawlength is 26.5" to the corner of my mouth.

          If I anchor under the chin, string touching the nose, my draw is only 25". Sight picture
          changes so I actually have aim lower.

          So there are alternatives that you can use but you need to be consistent.

          I have never drawn to the chest but I just tried it as an experiment and was quite surprized
          that anchoring to my sternum, my draw increased to 29". Not quite the results I was
          expecting.

          In Toxophilus, Ascham talks about a favoured 'silver spoon' style of arrowhead.

          "They made a certain kind of heads which men call high rigged, creased, or shouldered
          heads, or silver spoon heads for a certain likeness that such head have with the knob end
          of some silver spoons.

          These heads be good to both keep a length withal and also to percha a wind withal, to
          keep a length withal because a man may certainly pull it to the shoulder every shot and no
          further."

          This suggest to me that arrow head itself was used as the anchor point to ensure
          consistency. Sort of a medieval clicker.

          In Service,
          James
        • G P
          ... That s good to hear--using that chest-to-clapped-hands thing, I come out to exactly 32 . ~Geirr
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 27, 2007
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            On 10/26/07, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
            > Actually, unless you need arrows longer than 32" cost isn't a
            > factor.
            > Carolus


            That's good to hear--using that chest-to-clapped-hands thing, I come
            out to exactly 32".

            ~Geirr
          • Carolus
            With that in mind, make your first few sets of arrows with add on nocks instead of self nocks, the added length of the nock plus the point will give you some
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 27, 2007
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              With that in mind, make your first few sets of arrows with add on
              nocks instead of self nocks, the added length of the nock plus the
              point will give you some safety margin until you determine the true
              length you need.
              Carolus

              At 06:37 AM 10/27/2007, you wrote:

              >On 10/26/07, Carolus
              ><<mailto:eulenhorst%40rosesandivy.net>eulenhorst@...> wrote:
              > > Actually, unless you need arrows longer than 32" cost isn't a
              > > factor.
              > > Carolus
              >
              >That's good to hear--using that chest-to-clapped-hands thing, I come
              >out to exactly 32".
              >
              >~Geirr


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            • Richard Yeager
              I know this has caused some arguments on here in the past but I will weigh in anyway. If your draw-length is 32 make absolutely certain that the bow you get
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 28, 2007
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                I know this has caused some arguments on here in the past but I will weigh in anyway. If your draw-length is 32" make absolutely certain that the bow you get (whether you build or buy) is tillered to draw that far. Fiberglass backed bows are more forgiving, but even those will have problems if they were tillered to 28". The concern about having arrows too short (and putting one through your hand) is a real concern. So is the damage that you can do to a bow by overdrawing. Most of the wooden longbows you will commonly find are tillered to 28'. A four inch overdraw can be incredibly ugly to the person holding what is left of the bow and anyone within range of what comes apart.

                Cuan mac Niall

                G P <gonfannon@...> wrote: On 10/26/07, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
                > Actually, unless you need arrows longer than 32" cost isn't a
                > factor.
                > Carolus

                That's good to hear--using that chest-to-clapped-hands thing, I come
                out to exactly 32".

                ~Geirr




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              • Lord Godwin FitzGilbert de Strigoil
                You can also make/get footed shafts. This would allow you to have arrows longer than 32 . Godwin
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 29, 2007
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                  You can also make/get 'footed' shafts. This would allow you to have arrows longer
                  than 32".


                  Godwin



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                • Luigi Kapaj
                  ... Yes. You absolutely can draw to a different point. In fact, drawing to the mouth was not the most widely used traditional archery style. Native Americans
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 29, 2007
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                    > Anyway, most people draw back to a point on the face, right? Cheek,
                    > corner of the mouth, various. But you use the same one every time for
                    > consistency's sake.
                    >
                    > But can you use a different point altoghter, not on your face? Am I
                    > remembering correctly, that I think I've seen some archers draw to a
                    > point under the bow arm, near the armpit?
                    >
                    > Is the point of drawing to the face just for consistency's sake, or is
                    > it too hard to aim when using a different point?

                    Yes. You absolutely can draw to a different point. In fact, drawing to the
                    mouth was not the most widely used traditional archery style. Native
                    Americans (Plains Indians, I think) would draw with 3 fingers to the
                    stomach. Mongol, Chinese, Turkic, Indian, and many other archers would draw
                    with the thumb to the collar bone or chest area. 36" arrows are not uncommon
                    for such styles.

                    Careful with drawing high and past the cheek, I've heard English and
                    Japanese longbowmen were known to lose ears. All other style of longer draw,
                    draw lower and don't have to worry about a string getting behind the ear.

                    It is important to note that anything a typical SCAdian archer will tell you
                    about consistency is equally important in such other styles of archery. You
                    may not be using a particular tooth as an anchor point, but you still need
                    to learn a consistent draw no matter what point you draw to. You can use a
                    location on you garb, or other body part such as collar bone as a reference
                    instead of a tooth, but ultimately this is just a learning tool and you want
                    this technique to become muscle memory.

                    Such muscle memory is even more important if you practice mounted archery.
                    In mounted archery, you neither pause at full draw, nor use any form of
                    anchor point. However, you are still aiming and drawing consistantly, just
                    doing it without a pause in the middle.

                    Most Asiatic bows, Composite bows, Yumi bows, and even the replicas like
                    Horsebows, are designed to accomidate longer draws.


                    Gulugjab
                    http://www.NYCMongol.com
                  • arturdubh
                    I realize that I am a bit late in adding to this particular topic, but for the sake of the safety of every archer.... I have seen what can happen when a bow is
                    Message 9 of 12 , Dec 9, 2007
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                      I realize that I am a bit late in adding to this particular topic,
                      but for the sake of the safety of every archer....

                      I have seen what can happen when a bow is over-drawn, due to a too-
                      short arrow -- I was not there to see it happen, but I did see the
                      result; picture a modern recurve bow, with a hole through the handle
                      portion, put there by the arrow as it left the string. Not merely a
                      hole **in** the bow, but completely *****through***** it.

                      Now consider what that would do to your hand or arm -- or the archer
                      next to you.

                      --Artúr


                      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Richard Yeager <chuymonstre@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > I know this has caused some arguments on here in the past but I
                      will weigh in anyway. If your draw-length is 32" make absolutely
                      certain that the bow you get (whether you build or buy) is tillered
                      to draw that far. Fiberglass backed bows are more forgiving, but
                      even those will have problems if they were tillered to 28". The
                      concern about having arrows too short (and putting one through your
                      hand) is a real concern. So is the damage that you can do to a bow
                      by overdrawing. Most of the wooden longbows you will commonly find
                      are tillered to 28'. A four inch overdraw can be incredibly ugly to
                      the person holding what is left of the bow and anyone within range of
                      what comes apart.
                      >
                      > Cuan mac Niall
                      >
                      > G P <gonfannon@...> wrote: On
                      10/26/07, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
                      > > Actually, unless you need arrows longer than 32" cost isn't a
                      > > factor.
                      > > Carolus
                      >
                      > That's good to hear--using that chest-to-clapped-hands thing, I
                      come
                      > out to exactly 32".
                      >
                      > ~Geirr
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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