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FW: Youth Archery at Pennsic36

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  • Gary & Terri
    _____ From: Gary & Terri [mailto:TShurgin@columbus.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:43 PM To: No Reply Cc: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com Subject: Youth
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 20, 2007
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      _____

      From: Gary & Terri [mailto:TShurgin@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:43 PM
      To: 'No Reply'
      Cc: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Youth Archery at Pennsic36



      Greetings all from Roewynne.



      Yes, once again It's that time of year to schedule shoots on the Youth Range
      at Pennsic. I have a tentative schedule, which I enclose

      To you all. Please feel free to come and help, or if you have a shoot,
      please contact me privately at:

      tshurgin@...

      I also welcome donations to the Youth Range (esp. fuzzy stuffed stuff)

      Hope to see many of you again this year at Pennsic.

      A change for this year, is that the Youth will be allowed to do war points
      on the Youth Range from 12noon to 4pm. All other times they

      can shoot on the regular ranges with their Parents.

      The BOD has ruled that all Youth under 12, must have their Parent with them
      to shoot, or an appropriate babysitter (Pennsic is 16 years old and above.)

      We on the Pennsic Archery range have had about the same rules in place.

      Youth 9 and under need their Parent with them at all times on the range. No
      substitutes allowed - e.g. no babysitters.

      Youth 10-13 need their Parent(s) on the Archery Range - this is the within
      sight and sound part. May have another responsible party (babysitter) if
      the

      Archery MIC says it's OK.

      14-17, need to have another person on the range with them who knows where
      the Parent is and what they look like. Cell phones are great!

      This has been for the Youth's safety. If they get hurt, they can only get
      medical help with a Parential OK.



      Good shooting!



      Forester Roewynne Langley

      Youth Archery Commander for Pennsic



      Dear Monitor, I am attempting to send this again. I thought I did send it to
      SCA-Archery at the above. I just haven't sent anything in quite a while.

      Thank you for the time you spent!

      Yours,

      Roewynne

      _____

      From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com]
      Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:48 PM
      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] Digest Number 2738




      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNWkzOTIxBF9TAzk3MzU5
      NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEc2VjA2hkcgRzbGsDaHBoBHN0aW1l
      AzExODIzMDA1MDc-> Discussion of traditional target archery

      Messages In This Digest (25 Messages)

      1.1.

      Re: different arrows, double loading - trick shots From: John and Carol
      Atkins

      1.2.

      Re: different arrows, double loading - trick shots From: Cian of Storvik

      1.3.

      Re: trick shots From: Sheri Rees

      1.4.

      Re: different arrows, double loading - trick shots From: Hobbe

      1.5.

      Re: trick shots From: jameswolfden

      1.6.

      Re: different arrows, double loading - trick shots From: Siegfried

      1.7.

      Re: different arrows, double loading - trick shots From: Ben Reeder

      1.8.

      Re: different arrows, double loading - trick shots From: Lady Katherine
      Killigrew

      2.

      English Longbows for sale From: Cian of Storvik

      3.1.

      Re: Practice, double loading From: Siegfried

      3.2.

      Re: Practice, double loading From: Fritz

      3.3.

      Re: Practice, double loading From: Lord Caedmon Wilson

      3.4.

      Re: Practice, double loading From: Nest verch Tangwistel

      3.5.

      Re: Practice, double loading From: jotl@...

      3.6.

      Re: Practice, double loading From: ICE TIGER

      3.7.

      Fita Targets Was:, double loading From: Cian of Storvik

      4a.

      Modern targets at events [was Re: [SCA-Archery] Practice, double loa From:
      jotl@...

      4b.

      Re: Modern targets at events [was Re: [SCA-Archery] Practice, double From:
      jotl@...

      5a.

      Ranking Archers via Scores From: Paul Thorne

      5b.

      Re: Ranking Archers via Scores From: Dan Scheid

      5c.

      Re: Ranking Archers via Scores From: John edgerton

      5d.

      Re: Ranking Archers via Scores From: James Koch

      5e.

      Re: Ranking Archers via Scores From: Lord Caedmon Wilson

      5f.

      Re: Ranking Archers via Scores From: John edgerton

      5g.

      Re: Ranking Archers via Scores From: Lewis Tanzos


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcHRiMW0wBF9
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      Messages

      1.1.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22898;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOTc3b2
      twBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI4OT
      gEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: different arrows,
      double loading - trick shots

      Posted by: "John and Carol Atkins"
      <mailto:cogworks@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20different%20arrows%2C%20dou
      ble%20loading%20-%20trick%20shots> cogworks@...
      <http://profiles.yahoo.com/houseofgrey> houseofgrey

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:48 am (PST)

      I too have attempted the double load shot. At Pennsic last year for
      the Masters warm ups they were emphasizing the double load shot. I
      personally favor shooting singles more accurately and fast for a
      better score.

      However this discussion brings up another topic I am interested in
      getting input on. We do lots of demos for schools and the public.
      Simply shooting at a target can be and is boring to watch. Thus I am
      interested in what "trick shots" members of this list know of or can
      do. My group often does the double load shot and the spectators love
      it but we need more. Ideas??

      Thanks,
      cog

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      1.2.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22899;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaTYwOD
      FxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI4OT
      kEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: different arrows,
      double loading - trick shots

      Posted by: "Cian of Storvik"
      <mailto:firespiter@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20different%20arrows%2C%20doub
      le%20loading%20-%20trick%20shots> firespiter@...
      <http://profiles.yahoo.com/cianofstorvik> cianofstorvik

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:13 am (PST)

      Byron Ferguson has a series of excerpt commercial breaks on OUTDOOR
      LIFE (A hunting show) where he does trick shots.
      They are also viewable on YOU TUBE. Just do a seach for Byron Ferguson.

      Byron, though I would remind you, is in the ilk of Howard Hill, and
      does unbelievable tricks like shooting life-savers that are tossed
      lightly into the air, annie-oakley (mirror shot), candle-shots and
      ricochette ramp shots that are a bit beyond the mundane abilities of
      most archers.

      Also, some of these look a bit dangerous (like bracing the bow with the
      feet or shooting at a moving vehicle) and I would vehemently prohibit
      some of them being performed by SCAdian archers at an event or practice.

      At short range, the double arrow is a fine trick, and ironically for me
      I think is easier on a traditional bow (no shelf). I was never able to
      get it to work on a modern take-down recurve with any success.
      Due to the trickyness/slow rate of reload, and the occasional arrows
      clashing into each other and throwing each other off, and the fact that
      the additional weight mandates altering your trajectory (pulling the
      bow up slightly off of point blank aim), I think it's a nifty trick
      when it works. Especially, as someone else pointed out, when you are
      shooting 2 seperate targets in a "V" shot.

      I've attempted the 2 seperate targets, and shot one arrow resting on my
      fleshy part between thumb and forefinger, and the index finger arching
      over the first arrow and creating a rest over the first arrow. But it
      causes one arrow to shoot high and the other low with the angle that I
      hold the bow. So it doesn't work well for chest height targets. Now, if
      you had a ground target (18" center from ground) spaced about 15 feet
      apart from a target about head height (on my right) some 20 yards from
      me, I can hit them. But alter those dimensions any and I can't.

      I would also point out that there are some individuals like Laochlain
      Silverwolf (whom I've had the increadible honor of meeting) have
      mastered the art of drawing and loosing 2 arrows at once in the speed
      round and not only do it with speed but also accuracy (I memory serves
      me Laochlain has loosed 16 or more arrows in a speed round).
      -Cian

      --- In <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com,
      "John and Carol Atkins"
      <cogworks@...> wrote:
      Thus I am
      > interested in what "trick shots" members of this list know of or can
      > do. My group often does the double load shot and the spectators love
      > it but we need more. Ideas??
      >
      > Thanks,
      > cog
      >

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      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22852;_ylc=X3oDMTM2aWZ1an
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      1.3.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22901;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYmhrNz
      l1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MD
      EEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: trick shots

      Posted by: "Sheri Rees"
      <mailto:s.l.rees@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20trick%20shots>
      s.l.rees@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/shadhra> shadhra

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:35 am (PST)

      A few years ago at a local Madrone (Seattle WA) demo, I took the
      IKCAC wooden man and old style combat arrows (blunts with
      fletchings). This interested even the local cops.
      For trick shots, one of the kids asked me to hit the bells hanging in
      the next booth over. Boy, did that make a noise!

      In later years, we set up milk jugs and tin cans (not truly medieval)
      but the kids had a great time removing them from the walls.
      Shadhra

      At 04:44 AM 6/19/2007, you wrote:
      >However this discussion brings up another topic I am interested in
      >getting input on. We do lots of demos for schools and the public.
      >Simply shooting at a target can be and is boring to watch. Thus I am
      >interested in what "trick shots" members of this list know of or can
      >do. My group often does the double load shot and the spectators love
      >it but we need more. Ideas??
      >
      >Thanks,
      >cog

      Back to top

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      1.4.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22902;_ylc=X3oDMTJxN291MG
      gxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MD
      IEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: different arrows,
      double loading - trick shots

      Posted by: "Hobbe"
      <mailto:clanyoungvp@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20different%20arrows%2C%20dou
      ble%20loading%20-%20trick%20shots> clanyoungvp@...
      <http://profiles.yahoo.com/hobbe_yonge> hobbe_yonge

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:25 am (PST)

      --- In <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com,
      "Cian of Storvik" <firespiter@...>
      wrote:
      > I would also point out that there are some individuals like Laochlain
      > Silverwolf (whom I've had the increadible honor of meeting) have
      > mastered the art of drawing and loosing 2 arrows at once in the speed
      > round and not only do it with speed but also accuracy (I memory
      serves
      > me Laochlain has loosed 16 or more arrows in a speed round).
      > -Cian

      Aha! I have often wondered how he shot his royal round scores of 160.
      -Hobbe

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      1.5.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22903;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcnEwbm
      81BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MD
      MEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: trick shots

      Posted by: "jameswolfden"
      <mailto:jameswolfden@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20trick%20shots>
      jameswolfden@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/jameswolfden>
      jameswolfden

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:01 am (PST)

      For demos, I think having a set of blunt arrows (the rubber bird
      blunts will do fine) can add to the theater. Shooting at bells which
      make noises or clay pigeons that shatter can make a nice impact on
      the audience. Plus, you might find the demo coordinator more willing
      to support a live archery demo rather than a static display.

      James

      --- In <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com,
      Sheri Rees <s.l.rees@...> wrote:
      >
      > A few years ago at a local Madrone (Seattle WA) demo, I took the
      > IKCAC wooden man and old style combat arrows (blunts with
      > fletchings). This interested even the local cops.
      > For trick shots, one of the kids asked me to hit the bells hanging
      in
      > the next booth over. Boy, did that make a noise!
      >
      > In later years, we set up milk jugs and tin cans (not truly
      medieval)
      > but the kids had a great time removing them from the walls.
      > Shadhra

      > >cog
      >

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      1.6.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22904;_ylc=X3oDMTJxN29vMH
      I1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MD
      QEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: different arrows,
      double loading - trick shots

      Posted by: "Siegfried"
      <mailto:SiegfriedFaust@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20different%20arrows%2C%20
      double%20loading%20-%20trick%20shots> SiegfriedFaust@...
      <http://profiles.yahoo.com/HyPeR__aCtIvE> HyPeR__aCtIvE

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:17 am (PST)

      > I would also point out that there are some individuals like Laochlain
      > Silverwolf (whom I've had the increadible honor of meeting) have
      > mastered the art of drawing and loosing 2 arrows at once in the speed
      > round and not only do it with speed but also accuracy (I memory serves
      > me Laochlain has loosed 16 or more arrows in a speed round).

      Actually, Laochlain does his 16 arrows 1 at a time ... since
      AEthelemarc doesn't allow double-loading, finding it a dangerous
      practice in their opinion.

      Siegfried

      --
      __________________________________________________________
      THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - <http://crossbows.biz/>
      http://crossbows.biz/
      Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
      Kingdom of Atlantia - Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
      <http://eliw.com/> http://eliw.com/ - <http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/>
      http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/

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      1.7.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22908;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMnMyNT
      U2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MD
      gEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: different arrows,
      double loading - trick shots

      Posted by: "Ben Reeder"
      <mailto:unclestrongbow@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20different%20arrows%2C%20
      double%20loading%20-%20trick%20shots> unclestrongbow@...
      <http://profiles.yahoo.com/unclestrongbow> unclestrongbow

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:04 pm (PST)

      I've only done this the one time (and poorly at that), but using a thumb
      draw, and specialized arrows (very thin), it is possible to fire more than
      two arrows from a Turkish style bow, by wrapping the thumb around the
      string, using the index finger on the bow hand side of the string, and the
      middle finger on the other side of the stacked arrows, it is possible to
      fire up to ten arrows at once. I only did two, with a horn thumb ring made
      for me by Master Kazimir (whose name I have just mangled in spelling) from
      Grimfells, and a siper (again with the poor spelling, but with pleas for
      forgiveness due to three years passing since I've used the word). The arrows
      flew beautifully, and did strike near each other, if not anywhere near the
      actual target, due to the archer's lack of practice in the technique. I
      found that using the altered thumb draw allowed me to keep the arrows on the
      string and from flipping off my thumb. However, the Turkish style bow I was
      using w! as a 50#
      draw, and my poor thumb is in no shape to work that as yet. I'll try to find
      the reference for that, though I think the title is out of print.

      Yours in Service,
      Jon Strongebowe

      John and Carol Atkins < <mailto:cogworks%40triad.rr.com>
      cogworks@...> wrote:
      I too have attempted the double load shot. At Pennsic last year for
      the Masters warm ups they were emphasizing the double load shot. I
      personally favor shooting singles more accurately and fast for a
      better score.

      However this discussion brings up another topic I am interested in
      getting input on. We do lots of demos for schools and the public.
      Simply shooting at a target can be and is boring to watch. Thus I am
      interested in what "trick shots" members of this list know of or can
      do. My group often does the double load shot and the spectators love
      it but we need more. Ideas??

      Thanks,
      cog

      --
      [Email to <mailto:SCA-Archery-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
      SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]

      Yahoo! Groups Links

      ---------------------------------
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      in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      in this topic (49)

      1.8.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22922;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOTFjaj
      dtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5Mj
      IEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: different arrows,
      double loading - trick shots

      Posted by: "Lady Katherine Killigrew"
      <mailto:k.killigrew@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20different%20arrows%2C%20dou
      ble%20loading%20-%20trick%20shots> k.killigrew@...
      <http://profiles.yahoo.com/katherine_killigrew> katherine_killigrew

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:48 pm (PST)

      Why not try different targets for the demos? I took a castle wall slot shoot
      target and a regular FITA target to one demo I went to at a Scottish
      Highland Games. The castle wall shoot was a huge hit. Everyone wanted to try
      their hand at it. (It was a hand's on demo and we had loaner equipment and
      coaching available.)

      --
      In Service,

      Lady Katherine Killigrew

      On 6/19/07, John and Carol Atkins < <mailto:cogworks%40triad.rr.com>
      cogworks@...> wrote:
      >
      > I too have attempted the double load shot. At Pennsic last year for
      > the Masters warm ups they were emphasizing the double load shot. I
      > personally favor shooting singles more accurately and fast for a
      > better score.
      >
      > However this discussion brings up another topic I am interested in
      > getting input on. We do lots of demos for schools and the public.
      > Simply shooting at a target can be and is boring to watch. Thus I am
      > interested in what "trick shots" members of this list know of or can
      > do. My group often does the double load shot and the spectators love
      > it but we need more. Ideas??
      >
      > Thanks,
      > cog
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > [Email to <mailto:SCA-Archery-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
      SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      in this topic (49)

      2.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22900;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdmdoYz
      BsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MD
      AEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> English Longbows for
      sale

      Posted by: "Cian of Storvik"
      <mailto:firespiter@...?Subject=%20Re%3AEnglish%20Longbows%20for%20sale
      > firespiter@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/cianofstorvik>
      cianofstorvik

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:20 am (PST)

      I posted this on the English Longbow list, but thought I would mention
      it here as well. No financial interest. But spotted this on Ebay:

      <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150133747446>
      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150133747446

      Looks to be proper D shape of an English livery bow with flemish twist
      string and horn nocks, and under $100 including Shipping!

      It's made of hickory and black walnut (which are new world woods but
      should shoot nicely, and the bow looks damn sexy).

      The only major issue I see is that it's under 6' in length. But still
      an awesome deal. Please, someone buy it before I am compelled to. Must
      resist....
      -Cian

      Back to top

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      3.1.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22905;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbmloND
      doBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MD
      UEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: Practice, double
      loading

      Posted by: "Siegfried"
      <mailto:SiegfriedFaust@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Practice%2C%20double%20l
      oading> SiegfriedFaust@...
      <http://profiles.yahoo.com/HyPeR__aCtIvE> HyPeR__aCtIvE

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:04 am (PST)

      > > Realize that we are talking about Target Archery here ... and in
      > > Target Archery, we are trying to recreate period target archery... A
      > > very common pastime.
      >
      > Still, at its root, it's all practice for either war or hunting. Even if
      > you don't plan on doing either.

      Fritz, to your persona, perhaps.

      But not to all the late period personas, who enjoyed great fun at the
      sport of target archery, attended the many (and well attended and
      famous) archery competitions ...

      And who had no concept at all of it being practice for war or hunting.

      Heck, by late period they started specifically designing crossbows
      that were designed solely for target shooting, with hair triggers,
      lighter weight prods, etc.

      Siegfried

      --
      __________________________________________________________
      THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - <http://crossbows.biz/>
      http://crossbows.biz/
      Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
      Kingdom of Atlantia - Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
      <http://eliw.com/> http://eliw.com/ - <http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/>
      http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/

      Back to top


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      Y5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MD
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      in this topic (49)

      3.2.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22906;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZ2piMH
      FjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MD
      YEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: Practice, double
      loading

      Posted by: "Fritz"
      <mailto:carl.west@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Practice%2C%20double%20load
      ing> carl.west@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/meisterf> meisterf

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:49 am (PST)

      When Siegfried put fingers to keys it was 6/19/07 2:03 PM...

      >>> Realize that we are talking about Target Archery here ... and in
      >>> Target Archery, we are trying to recreate period target archery... A
      >>> very common pastime.
      >> Still, at its root, it's all practice for either war or hunting. Even if
      >> you don't plan on doing either.
      >
      > Fritz, to your persona, perhaps.
      >
      > But not to all the late period personas, who enjoyed great fun at the
      > sport of target archery, attended the many (and well attended and
      > famous) archery competitions ...
      >
      > And who had no concept at all of it being practice for war or hunting.
      >
      > Heck, by late period they started specifically designing crossbows
      > that were designed solely for target shooting, with hair triggers,
      > lighter weight prods, etc.

      Don't stop digging when you hit your persona, go to the root.

      At its essence, archery is practice with a lethal weapon.

      It is like fencing. At its root, fencing is about training with the
      weapon used in duels and self defense. Over time is has become distanced
      from that and specialized equipment and special rules have been created,
      but at it's root, it is practice for fighting with the slender sword.

      Archery is many other things too, a meditation, an exercise, a social
      activity, a pastime, a sport... but underneath it all is killing things
      from a distance.

      It is with that in mind that I contend that double loading doesn't fit
      with the skills many of our shoots appear (to me anyway) to be
      testing/training.

      --
      Fritz
      Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.

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      3.3.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22907;_ylc=X3oDMTJxb2k2Zj
      FxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MD
      cEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: Practice, double
      loading

      Posted by: "Lord Caedmon Wilson"
      <mailto:caedmon.wilson@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Practice%2C%20double%20l
      oading> caedmon.wilson@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/caeman>
      caeman

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:53 am (PST)

      ... On imitating practice for war

      A more period version of this would be shoot the first arrow straight
      up and the second flat so they both hit the target at the same time.
      This would require a new version of the standard archery target.

      ... On imitating hunting

      You either wound the animal for death...or you don't. If I am
      practicing to hunt, I shouldn't be using concentric circles. Our
      modern sensibility says that it is cruel to shoot and not kill on the
      first shot.

      ... For sport

      Later royalty shot archery as a past time, an activity with which to
      impress one another. Yes? Maybe it was also a decadent showing-off
      of skill that because of their position, would never have to actually
      be used to hunt an animal.

      ... The Eternal Debate

      I hadn't looked at my calendar and realized it was time for this
      debate again. My apologies for not chiming in sooner.

      -Caedmon
      innocent crossbowman

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      3.4.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22909;_ylc=X3oDMTJxa2hvZ2
      hjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MD
      kEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: Practice, double
      loading

      Posted by: "Nest verch Tangwistel"
      <mailto:eastarch@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Practice%2C%20double%20loading
      > eastarch@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/eastarch> eastarch

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:09 pm (PST)


      Why would I want to do that? My personna is what I am playing, a 16th C
      English Nobel woman, not someone from the "root of archery", not some stone
      age guy which needs to hunt to live. Not some artillery soldier which must
      shoot at people to protect his homeland, or take over the neighbor's. The
      root of archery may be mired in hunting and warfare, but it had evolved to
      include different styles by the time my personna would have been shooting. I
      don't see any reason to do something that would have been incorrect for my
      personna because your personna has a different set of ideals.

      It is true that many of our shoots practice the manly art of war. the clout,
      advancing man and castle window of Pennsic are clearly marshally related.
      However, I don't see this so much in the royal round. concentric circles do
      not imply either enemies or animals. It is clearly a target for targets sake
      type of shoot.

      Nest

      Fritz < <mailto:carl.west%40comcast.net> carl.west@...> wrote:


      Don't stop digging when you hit your persona, go to the root.

      At its essence, archery is practice with a lethal weapon.

      It is with that in mind that I contend that double loading doesn't fit
      with the skills many of our shoots appear (to me anyway) to be
      testing/training.

      --
      Fritz
      Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.

      .

      ---------------------------------
      TV dinner still cooling?
      Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      3.5.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22910;_ylc=X3oDMTJxY3NrYn
      BxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MT
      AEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: Practice, double
      loading

      Posted by: "jotl@..."
      <mailto:jotl@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Practice%2C%20double%20load
      ing> jotl@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/jotl2002> jotl2002

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:39 pm (PST)

      At 1:42 PM 6/19/07 -0700, Nest verch Tangwistel wrote:

      > It is true that many of our shoots practice the manly art of war. the
      clout,
      >advancing man and castle window of Pennsic are clearly marshally related.
      >However, I don't see this so much in the royal round. concentric circles do
      >not imply either enemies or animals. It is clearly a target for targets
      sake
      >type of shoot.

      That is, in my opinion, because the royal round is an inherently modern
      form of archery competition. The sight of FITA targets undoes much of the
      re-creation effect of shooting with period clothing and tackle. We
      essently become modern traditional archers in the eyes of the casual
      observer.

      James
      <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us> jotl@...

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      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22852;_ylc=X3oDMTM2bTV2cm
      01BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MT
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      3.6.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22911;_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2plcn
      F1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MT
      EEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: Practice, double
      loading

      Posted by: "ICE TIGER"
      <mailto:ice.tiger@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Practice%2C%20double%20loading>
      ice.tiger@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/dalton_arundel4>
      dalton_arundel4

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:35 pm (PST)

      That's why some areas shoot royal rounds only at practices and come up with
      more interesting targets for events where spectators are more likely to be
      present..
      Dalton

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us> jotl@...
      Date: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:39 pm
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Practice, double loading

      > At 1:42 PM 6/19/07 -0700, Nest verch Tangwistel wrote:
      >
      > > It is true that many of our shoots practice the manly art of
      > war. the clout,
      > >advancing man and castle window of Pennsic are clearly marshally
      > related.>However, I don't see this so much in the royal round.
      > concentric circles do
      > >not imply either enemies or animals. It is clearly a target for
      > targets sake
      > >type of shoot.
      >
      > That is, in my opinion, because the royal round is an inherently
      > modernform of archery competition. The sight of FITA targets
      > undoes much of the
      > re-creation effect of shooting with period clothing and tackle. We
      > essently become modern traditional archers in the eyes of the casual
      > observer.
      >
      > James
      > <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us> jotl@...
      >
      >
      >

      Back to top

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      3.7.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22915;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMTg2ZH
      QxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MT
      UEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Fita Targets Was:,
      double loading

      Posted by: "Cian of Storvik"
      <mailto:firespiter@...?Subject=%20Re%3AFita%20Targets%20Was%3A%2C%20do
      uble%20loading> firespiter@...
      <http://profiles.yahoo.com/cianofstorvik> cianofstorvik

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:35 pm (PST)

      No doubt that FITA targets are modern, but they are a "regulation"
      size which makes them universal throughout the world and available
      commercially for an affordable price (usually about $1 per target).
      They may not be in period, but the FITA target design is very
      similar to the target rounds of the 18th century.
      "Target Rounds" date back to the 1700's which was a target of
      concentric circles (usually 5), each having a particular value
      (which varied depending on the archery club). Eventually target
      rounds became the dominant sport, and values of 9,7,5,3,1 were
      applied to the rings as a standard. (No mention of using colors for
      each ring).
      Targets were usually set up at a distance in "roods" (7.5 yards = 1
      rood), and the distances varied but for men was commonly 12 roods(90
      yards).
      I'm not sure what the size of these concentric targets were, but
      early in the 18th century, when "butt shooting" at circle targets it
      was not uncommon to shoot at a circle on the butts that measured 1"
      for each rood of distance being shot.
      This sounds very similar to the FITA targets we shoot, at though no
      where near as close a distance. I'm just glad we don't have to try
      to shoot at a target that measures 12" at 90 yards.
      I would also note that during this Victorian period, arrows were
      commonly shot in "tandems" (2 arrows per end). After each end, the
      archers would walk to the alternate side of the field, retrieve
      their 2 arrows, and then shoot back at the butt they had just been
      standing next to. Shooting a round of 40 arrows consisted of 20 ends
      or walking 1.5 miles!
      Now aren't you glad we just shoot the Royal Round?
      -Cian

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      4a.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22912;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaHBscD
      dnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MT
      IEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Modern targets at events
      [was Re: [SCA-Archery] Practice, double loa

      Posted by: "jotl@..."
      <mailto:jotl@...?Subject=%20Re%3AModern%20targets%20at%20events
      %20%5Bwas%20Re%3A%20%5BSCA-Archery%5D%20Practice%2C%20double%20loa>
      jotl@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/jotl2002> jotl2002

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:54 pm (PST)

      At 4:34 PM 6/19/07 -0600, ICE TIGER wrote:
      >That's why some areas shoot royal rounds only at practices and come up with
      >more interesting targets for events where spectators are more likely to be
      >present..
      >Dalton
      >

      In Caid, we've been using more period targets in some areas for quite a
      while now, especially in conjunction with IKAC's and RR's. In my local
      barony (where I host the range) in recent years, FITA's are mainly used
      only in practices; but the FITA target at events remains a fixture at many
      archery events in my kingdom. To change we'd have to have to overhaul our
      archer ranking system.

      James
      <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us> jotl@...

      Back to top


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      5qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MT
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      4b.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22913;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZ2MwcG
      NyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MT
      MEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: Modern targets at
      events [was Re: [SCA-Archery] Practice, double

      Posted by: "jotl@..."
      <mailto:jotl@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Modern%20targets%20at%20eve
      nts%20%5Bwas%20Re%3A%20%5BSCA-Archery%5D%20Practice%2C%20double>
      jotl@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/jotl2002> jotl2002

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:10 pm (PST)

      At 3:53 PM 6/19/07 -0700, <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us>
      jotl@... wrote:

      >In Caid, we've been using more period targets in some areas for quite a
      >while now, especially in conjunction with IKAC's and RR's.

      That should read, "in addition to" IKAC's and RR's. My appologies.

      James
      <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us> jotl@...

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      5a.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22914;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZDk4aX
      RmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MT
      QEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Ranking Archers via
      Scores

      Posted by: "Paul Thorne"
      <mailto:paul.v.thorne@...?Subject=%20Re%3ARanking%20Archers%20via%20Sc
      ores> paul.v.thorne@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/decalmont>
      decalmont

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:21 pm (PST)

      Greetings to the List,

      I would like to pose a question to the list in general and see how this is
      viewed by the SCA as a whole and not just mine or from any one Kingdoms
      viewpoint.

      Below, Lord James states that if we were to go away from using a standard
      FITA target we'd have to overhaul our archer ranking system. That statement
      made me stop and think. Here in Ansteorra, like a lot of other Kingdoms we
      have a ranking system for archers, but why? Here, there are no other
      activities that individuals are ranked like this, not one. Is this something
      brought over from modern archery competitions? What is the purpose of having
      a rank as an archer? Even though our Kingdom is fairly spread out I can
      still tell you off the top of my head who our top archers are without ever
      looking at a list. We have several levels of awards going up to a Grant
      level award for Archery specifically and of course there are those who have
      achieved a peerage for Archery activities even.

      So I would like to hear why anyone thinks that we need to keep a ranking
      system in place. To me it seems to be something overtly modern and we might
      be better served without such a system in place. What do you think?

      Jean-Paul de Calmont
      Ansteorran Archer

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us> jotl@...
      To: <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:53 PM
      Subject: Modern targets at events [was Re: [SCA-Archery] Practice, double
      loading]

      At 4:34 PM 6/19/07 -0600, ICE TIGER wrote:
      >That's why some areas shoot royal rounds only at practices and come up with
      >more interesting targets for events where spectators are more likely to be
      >present..
      >Dalton
      >

      In Caid, we've been using more period targets in some areas for quite a
      while now, especially in conjunction with IKAC's and RR's. In my local
      barony (where I host the range) in recent years, FITA's are mainly used
      only in practices; but the FITA target at events remains a fixture at many
      archery events in my kingdom. To change we'd have to have to overhaul our
      archer ranking system.

      James
      <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us> jotl@...

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      Back to top


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      5b.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22916;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMTVrMH
      JhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MT
      YEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: Ranking Archers via
      Scores

      Posted by: "Dan Scheid"
      <mailto:damales@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Ranking%20Archers%20via%20
      Scores> damales@...
      <http://profiles.yahoo.com/damales_redbeard> damales_redbeard

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:40 pm (PST)



      Well I don't shoot much so saying that I'm a bowmaster is fun to those that
      don't know that I used to shoot good scores. That said. I would be for
      dumping the whole system of rank. It is very modern.

      Damales

      _____

      From: <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto: <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com]
      On
      Behalf Of Paul Thorne
      Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 4:22 PM
      To: <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] Ranking Archers via Scores

      Greetings to the List,

      I would like to pose a question to the list in general and see how this is
      viewed by the SCA as a whole and not just mine or from any one Kingdoms
      viewpoint.

      Below, Lord James states that if we were to go away from using a standard
      FITA target we'd have to overhaul our archer ranking system. That statement
      made me stop and think. Here in Ansteorra, like a lot of other Kingdoms we
      have a ranking system for archers, but why? Here, there are no other
      activities that individuals are ranked like this, not one. Is this something
      brought over from modern archery competitions? What is the purpose of having
      a rank as an archer? Even though our Kingdom is fairly spread out I can
      still tell you off the top of my head who our top archers are without ever
      looking at a list. We have several levels of awards going up to a Grant
      level award for Archery specifically and of course there are those who have
      achieved a peerage for Archery activities even.

      So I would like to hear why anyone thinks that we need to keep a ranking
      system in place. To me it seems to be something overtly modern and we might
      be better served without such a system in place. What do you think?

      Jean-Paul de Calmont
      Ansteorran Archer

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: jotl@ridgecrest. <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us> ca.us
      To: SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:53 PM
      Subject: Modern targets at events [was Re: [SCA-Archery] Practice, double
      loading]

      At 4:34 PM 6/19/07 -0600, ICE TIGER wrote:
      >That's why some areas shoot royal rounds only at practices and come up with
      >more interesting targets for events where spectators are more likely to be
      >present..
      >Dalton
      >

      In Caid, we've been using more period targets in some areas for quite a
      while now, especially in conjunction with IKAC's and RR's. In my local
      barony (where I host the range) in recent years, FITA's are mainly used
      only in practices; but the FITA target at events remains a fixture at many
      archery events in my kingdom. To change we'd have to have to overhaul our
      archer ranking system.

      James
      jotl@ridgecrest. <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us> ca.us

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      5c.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22917;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYTdjbz
      NqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MT
      cEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: Ranking Archers via
      Scores

      Posted by: "John edgerton"
      <mailto:sirjon1@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Ranking%20Archers%20via%20Sco
      res> sirjon1@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/sirjonfitzrauf>
      sirjonfitzrauf

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:45 pm (PST)

      In a way we have a ranking system in heavy combat. Squire (etc).
      Knight. Count. Duke.

      Jon
      On Jun 19, 2007, at 4:21 PM, Paul Thorne wrote:

      > Greetings to the List,
      >
      > I would like to pose a question to the list in general and see how
      > this is viewed by the SCA as a whole and not just mine or from any
      > one Kingdoms viewpoint.
      >
      > Below, Lord James states that if we were to go away from using a
      > standard FITA target we'd have to overhaul our archer ranking
      > system. That statement made me stop and think. Here in Ansteorra,
      > like a lot of other Kingdoms we have a ranking system for archers,
      > but why? Here, there are no other activities that individuals are
      > ranked like this, not one. Is this something brought over from
      > modern archery competitions? What is the purpose of having a rank
      > as an archer? Even though our Kingdom is fairly spread out I can
      > still tell you off the top of my head who our top archers are
      > without ever looking at a list. We have several levels of awards
      > going up to a Grant level award for Archery specifically and of
      > course there are those who have achieved a peerage for Archery
      > activities even.
      >
      > So I would like to hear why anyone thinks that we need to keep a
      > ranking system in place. To me it seems to be something overtly
      > modern and we might be better served without such a system in
      > place. What do you think?
      >
      > Jean-Paul de Calmont
      > Ansteorran Archer
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us> jotl@...
      > To: <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:53 PM
      > Subject: Modern targets at events [was Re: [SCA-Archery] Practice,
      > double loading]
      >
      > At 4:34 PM 6/19/07 -0600, ICE TIGER wrote:
      > >That's why some areas shoot royal rounds only at practices and
      > come up with
      > >more interesting targets for events where spectators are more
      > likely to be
      > >present..
      > >Dalton
      > >
      >
      > In Caid, we've been using more period targets in some areas for
      > quite a
      > while now, especially in conjunction with IKAC's and RR's. In my local
      > barony (where I host the range) in recent years, FITA's are mainly
      > used
      > only in practices; but the FITA target at events remains a fixture
      > at many
      > archery events in my kingdom. To change we'd have to have to
      > overhaul our
      > archer ranking system.
      >
      > James
      > <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us> jotl@...
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      5d.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22918;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYWJpNm
      JxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MT
      gEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: Ranking Archers via
      Scores

      Posted by: "James Koch"
      <mailto:alchem@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Ranking%20Archers%20via%20Scores>
      alchem@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/bigjimkoch> bigjimkoch

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:46 pm (PST)

      Jean-Paul,
      >
      You have a very good point. I had long realized that the FITA
      targets we use to shoot RR and IKAC scores are a modern item adopted
      due to that fact that they are widely available. It never occurred
      to me though that the way we rank archers is also a modern
      construct. There are advantages though to these shoots. For
      instance they allow people from half way around the known world to
      compare scores.
      >
      What I want to know is what happened to the long and detailed
      discussion we were having over a year ago regarding holding regional
      and SCA wide champion type shoots? The subject was suddenly dropped
      and nothing seems to have come of it.
      >
      Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
      >
      >
      >At 07:21 PM 6/19/2007, you wrote:

      >Greetings to the List,
      >
      >I would like to pose a question to the list in general and see how
      >this is viewed by the SCA as a whole and not just mine or from any
      >one Kingdoms viewpoint.
      >
      >Below, Lord James states that if we were to go away from using a
      >standard FITA target we'd have to overhaul our archer ranking
      >system. That statement made me stop and think. Here in Ansteorra,
      >like a lot of other Kingdoms we have a ranking system for archers,
      >but why? Here, there are no other activities that individuals are
      >ranked like this, not one. Is this something brought over from
      >modern archery competitions? What is the purpose of having a rank as
      >an archer? Even though our Kingdom is fairly spread out I can still
      >tell you off the top of my head who our top archers are without ever
      >looking at a list. We have several levels of awards going up to a
      >Grant level award for Archery specifically and of course there are
      >those who have achieved a peerage for Archery activities even.
      >
      >So I would like to hear why anyone thinks that we need to keep a
      >ranking system in place. To me it seems to be something overtly
      >modern and we might be better served without such a system in place.
      >What do you think?
      >
      >Jean-Paul de Calmont
      >Ansteorran Archer
      >
      >----- Original Message -----
      >From: <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us> <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us>
      jotl@...
      >To: <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      >Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:53 PM
      >Subject: Modern targets at events [was Re: [SCA-Archery] Practice,
      >double loading]
      >
      >At 4:34 PM 6/19/07 -0600, ICE TIGER wrote:
      > >That's why some areas shoot royal rounds only at practices and come up
      with
      > >more interesting targets for events where spectators are more likely to
      be
      > >present..
      > >Dalton
      > >
      >
      >In Caid, we've been using more period targets in some areas for quite a
      >while now, especially in conjunction with IKAC's and RR's. In my local
      >barony (where I host the range) in recent years, FITA's are mainly used
      >only in practices; but the FITA target at events remains a fixture at many
      >archery events in my kingdom. To change we'd have to have to overhaul our
      >archer ranking system.
      >
      >James
      ><mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us> <mailto:jotl%40ridgecrest.ca.us>
      jotl@...
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      5e.


      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22919;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNWd1MT
      UzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1OTUzMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3Njc1MDMEbXNnSWQDMjI5MT
      kEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: Ranking Archers via
      Scores

      Posted by: "Lord Caedmon Wilson"
      <mailto:caedmon.wilson@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Ranking%20Archers%20via%
      20Scores> caedmon.wilson@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/caeman>
      caeman

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:54 pm (PST)

      On 6/19/07, John edgerton < <mailto:sirjon1%40pacbell.net>
      sirjon1@...> wrote:
      > In a way we have a ranking system in heavy combat. Squire (etc).
      > Knight. Count. Duke.

      True, but those ranks are not achieved through a system to distinct as
      points on a target. Archery and TW are unique in the SCA in that a
      score can rank you without anyone's personal opinion getting in the
      way. The target doesn't play politics, it doesn't judge, it simply
      is.

      There is a simplicity to this system that makes archery and TW a much
      nicer sport, in my opinion. The target cannot call light, or skippy.
      It is this simplicity that keeps me drawn to archery. When I am
      shooting my crossbow, it is just me and the target, and my previous
      score to beat. There comes a point of diminishing returns and you
      cannot shoot a higher score, so you move on to a new challenge like
      greater distances, smaller targets, unknown distances, etc.

      I loved to shoot at the local archery club at Hueston Woods before it
      fell apart. 30-target woods walk, 4 hours and the outdoors. I didn't
      care that I was the only crossbow at the tournaments.

      The Royal Round and IKAC are a convenient measuring stick of one
      ability to shoot. This is not bad or good, it is simply is. Any
      other standardized contest will suffer a similar problem after the
      length of time the RR and IKAC have been serving the SCA.

      -Caedmon

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      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/message/22920;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNTVydn
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      AEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MjMwMDUwNw--> Re: Ranking Archers via
      Scores

      Posted by: "John edgerton"
      <mailto:sirjon1@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Ranking%20Archers%20via%20Sco
      res> sirjon1@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/sirjonfitzrauf>
      sirjonfitzrauf

      Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:04 pm <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)
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