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Re: RE: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow balance and weight

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  • ICE TIGER
    Actually it wasn t the Die Hard movie, it was Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon, the first one I believe. Dalton ... From: Oakes, George
    Message 1 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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      Actually it wasn't the Die Hard movie, it was Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon, the first one I believe.
      Dalton

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Oakes, George" <goakes@...>
      Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 1:27 pm
      Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow balance and weight

      > I have actually done that with my Smith and Wesson .45 1911, at 25ft.
      > impressive to those around you at the range ;-)
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      >
      > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com]
      > On Behalf Of Fritz
      > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 1:29 PM
      > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow balance and weight
      >
      >
      >
      > When Dayrl Merrill put fingers to keys it was 5/22/07 12:40 PM...
      >
      > > ... Exact matches are not necessarily good as this causes more
      > > robin hood/split shafts the better you get.
      >
      > When you get _that_ good, put the arrows next to each other.
      > In a nice pattern.
      >
      > In one of the Die Hard movies the main character draws a smiley
      > face on
      > his handgun target. With bullet holes. Something to strive for.
      >
      > --
      > Fritz
      > Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • Toni Nelson
      ... Exact matches are not necessarily good as this causes more ... So all my work at making my arrows match exactly is also what is also what is making me run
      Message 2 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Dayrl Merrill <dmerrill@...>
        Exact matches are not necessarily good as this causes more
        > robin hood/split shafts the better you get.
        >
        > Rask Ulfbjorn,
        > Viking Archery Supply
        >


        So all my work at making my arrows match exactly is also what is also
        what is making me run through them so quickly. I keep setting them next
        to each other or splitting them in half.

        Antoinette
      • ICE TIGER
        At least you know your form is consistent. If your arrows weren t matched you d always be trying to figure out why some shots didn t go where you were aiming.
        Message 3 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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          At least you know your form is consistent. If your arrows weren't matched you'd always be trying to figure out why some shots didn't go where you were aiming. That's real frustration. Why someone would suggest using unmatched arrows is a good idea is beyond logic. Shoot the first one into the centre and shoot the others around it. At least with matched arrows you know it's possible. :)
          Dalton

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Toni Nelson <mermaidx3@...>
          Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:14 pm
          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow balance and weight

          > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Dayrl Merrill <dmerrill@...>
          > Exact matches are not necessarily good as this causes more
          > > robin hood/split shafts the better you get.
          > >
          > > Rask Ulfbjorn,
          > > Viking Archery Supply
          > >
          >
          >
          > So all my work at making my arrows match exactly is also what is
          > also
          > what is making me run through them so quickly. I keep setting them
          > next
          > to each other or splitting them in half.
          >
          > Antoinette
          >
          >
        • Dayrl Merrill
          Just one of the factors. Consistant draw length, form, release, concentration and everything else are needed as well. Rask ... [Non-text portions of this
          Message 4 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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            Just one of the factors. Consistant draw length, form, release,
            concentration and everything else are needed as well.

            Rask

            At 04:14 PM 5/22/07, you wrote:

            >--- In <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com,
            >Dayrl Merrill <dmerrill@...>
            >Exact matches are not necessarily good as this causes more
            > > robin hood/split shafts the better you get.
            > >
            > > Rask Ulfbjorn,
            > > Viking Archery Supply
            > >
            >
            >So all my work at making my arrows match exactly is also what is also
            >what is making me run through them so quickly. I keep setting them next
            >to each other or splitting them in half.
            >
            >Antoinette
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Karen Nelson
            I agree. I would get too frustrated with unmatched arrows. I wouldn t be able to know where they were going to go. Antoinette ICE TIGER
            Message 5 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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              I agree. I would get too frustrated with unmatched arrows. I wouldn't be able to know where they were going to go.

              Antoinette

              ICE TIGER <ice.tiger@...> wrote:
              At least you know your form is consistent. If your arrows weren't matched you'd always be trying to figure out why some shots didn't go where you were aiming. That's real frustration. Why someone would suggest using unmatched arrows is a good idea is beyond logic. Shoot the first one into the centre and shoot the others around it. At least with matched arrows you know it's possible. :)
              Dalton

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Toni Nelson
              Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:14 pm
              Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow balance and weight

              > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Dayrl Merrill
              > Exact matches are not necessarily good as this causes more
              > > robin hood/split shafts the better you get.
              > >
              > > Rask Ulfbjorn,
              > > Viking Archery Supply
              > >
              >
              >
              > So all my work at making my arrows match exactly is also what is
              > also
              > what is making me run through them so quickly. I keep setting them
              > next
              > to each other or splitting them in half.
              >
              > Antoinette
              >
              >


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Karen Nelson
              I realize that. It is also why I took classes on form, and work for proper form and consistency at all times. Antoinette Dayrl Merrill
              Message 6 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                I realize that. It is also why I took classes on form, and work for proper form and consistency at all times.

                Antoinette

                Dayrl Merrill <dmerrill@...> wrote:
                Just one of the factors. Consistant draw length, form, release,
                concentration and everything else are needed as well.

                Rask

                At 04:14 PM 5/22/07, you wrote:

                >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com,
                >Dayrl Merrill
                >Exact matches are not necessarily good as this causes more
                > > robin hood/split shafts the better you get.
                > >
                > > Rask Ulfbjorn,
                > > Viking Archery Supply
                > >
                >
                >So all my work at making my arrows match exactly is also what is also
                >what is making me run through them so quickly. I keep setting them next
                >to each other or splitting them in half.
                >
                >Antoinette
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Dayrl Merrill
                I was not suggesting a radically varying set but inside 40 yards very few people will be able detect a 10 to 25 grain difference. Spine within 2 or 3# as
                Message 7 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                  I was not suggesting a radically varying set but inside 40 yards very few
                  people will be able detect a 10 to 25 grain difference. Spine within 2 or
                  3# as well. a 4 to 5# spine difference can be a ring difference, but it
                  still isn't going to a flyer. If a person wants exact spine match and less
                  than 5 grain difference. I can do that however the cost will be
                  condiderablly more because of the time, materials, and effort required.

                  Rask

                  At 05:10 PM 5/22/07, you wrote:

                  >I realize that. It is also why I took classes on form, and work for proper
                  >form and consistency at all times.
                  >
                  >Antoinette
                  >
                  >Dayrl Merrill
                  ><<mailto:dmerrill%40omnicityusa.com>dmerrill@...> wrote:
                  >Just one of the factors. Consistant draw length, form, release,
                  >concentration and everything else are needed as well.
                  >
                  >Rask
                  >
                  >At 04:14 PM 5/22/07, you wrote:
                  >
                  > >--- In <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com,
                  > >Dayrl Merrill
                  > >Exact matches are not necessarily good as this causes more
                  > > > robin hood/split shafts the better you get.
                  > > >
                  > > > Rask Ulfbjorn,
                  > > > Viking Archery Supply
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >So all my work at making my arrows match exactly is also what is also
                  > >what is making me run through them so quickly. I keep setting them next
                  > >to each other or splitting them in half.
                  > >
                  > >Antoinette
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >--
                  >[Email to
                  ><mailto:SCA-Archery-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >to leave this list]
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Karen Nelson
                  Sorry I don t shoot just 20, 30, and 40 yards. Differences come up quite often for me. I find that good form and balanced arrows help when working from 40
                  Message 8 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                    Sorry I don't shoot just 20, 30, and 40 yards. Differences come up quite often for me. I find that good form and balanced arrows help when working from 40 yards on back to 80 yards.
                    As for spine I usually order the shafts with a set spine and then test them again to make sure they are correct, along with weighing the shafts to put them in the best groupings possible. Last time I ordered 200 shafts at 30-35 lb spines, and I got several groupings that were within 5-10 grains as well and two sets of 15 that were within 2 grains of each other. Maybe I've just been lucky. But I still like geting my arrows as close to each other as possible. If I mess some up, it just gives me an excuse to make a new set (I actually like painting and fletching arrows.)

                    Antoinette


                    Dayrl Merrill <dmerrill@...> wrote:
                    I was not suggesting a radically varying set but inside 40 yards very few
                    people will be able detect a 10 to 25 grain difference. Spine within 2 or
                    3# as well. a 4 to 5# spine difference can be a ring difference, but it
                    still isn't going to a flyer. If a person wants exact spine match and less
                    than 5 grain difference. I can do that however the cost will be
                    condiderablly more because of the time, materials, and effort required.

                    Rask

                    At 05:10 PM 5/22/07, you wrote:

                    >I realize that. It is also why I took classes on form, and work for proper
                    >form and consistency at all times.
                    >
                    >Antoinette
                    >
                    >Dayrl Merrill
                    ><dmerrill@...> wrote:
                    >Just one of the factors. Consistant draw length, form, release,
                    >concentration and everything else are needed as well.
                    >
                    >Rask
                    >
                    >At 04:14 PM 5/22/07, you wrote:
                    >
                    > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com,
                    > >Dayrl Merrill
                    > >Exact matches are not necessarily good as this causes more
                    > > > robin hood/split shafts the better you get.
                    > > >
                    > > > Rask Ulfbjorn,
                    > > > Viking Archery Supply
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >So all my work at making my arrows match exactly is also what is also
                    > >what is making me run through them so quickly. I keep setting them next
                    > >to each other or splitting them in half.
                    > >
                    > >Antoinette
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >--
                    >[Email to
                    >SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >to leave this list]
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >


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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Fritz
                    When Toni Nelson put fingers to keys it was 5/22/07 4:14 PM... ... Time to make yourself some targets with 12 to 18 spots on them. One arrow per. -- Fritz Aut
                    Message 9 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                      When Toni Nelson put fingers to keys it was 5/22/07 4:14 PM...


                      > So all my work at making my arrows match exactly is also what is also
                      > what is making me run through them so quickly. I keep setting them next
                      > to each other or splitting them in half.

                      Time to make yourself some targets with 12 to 18 spots on them. One
                      arrow per.

                      --
                      Fritz
                      Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.
                    • Karen Nelson
                      Very good idea. I ll try that. Antoinette Fritz wrote: When Toni Nelson put fingers to keys it was 5/22/07 4:14 PM... ... Time to make
                      Message 10 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                        Very good idea. I'll try that.

                        Antoinette

                        Fritz <carl.west@...> wrote:
                        When Toni Nelson put fingers to keys it was 5/22/07 4:14 PM...


                        > So all my work at making my arrows match exactly is also what is also
                        > what is making me run through them so quickly. I keep setting them next
                        > to each other or splitting them in half.

                        Time to make yourself some targets with 12 to 18 spots on them. One
                        arrow per.

                        --
                        Fritz
                        Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.


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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Jeffrey Webb
                        Greetings, I actually prefer very point heavy arrows that are as much as 10-15% FOC and with heads that are 160-180 grains. I use big fletches with a
                        Message 11 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                          Greetings,
                          I actually prefer very "point heavy" arrows that are as much as 10-15% FOC and with heads that are 160-180 grains. I use big fletches with a considerable helical on them. Since I shoot very heavy draw weight bows this has worked very well for me over the years. I am compulsive about measuring spine weight, placing my cock feather on the stiffest part of the shaft and compensating for the spine weight drop from using the heavier points. I also prefer end tapered arrows.
                          I have been told by "experts" that when you shoot heavier draw weights, spine and grain weight aren't that critical so long as the spine and grain weight is heavy enough, but I can attest to it being very important. I try to keep my overall grain weights plus or minus 5 grains (which isn't very much when the overall weight of my arrow is over 650 grains). I use a spine scale and a grain scale and I am fanatical about straightening arrows after each end when it is needed.
                          There are many that will argue that all of this concern isn't neccessary...... but y'know what? I have found that it is.
                          In any case, if you are shooting lighter poundage bows, this kind of concern is crucial. Balance, weight, spine and proper placement of fletches and total uniformity is the key to developing accurate shooting when it comes to your tackle. You can shoot with a pretty crappy bow, but if your arrows are matched, you will get consistancy in your shooting........ so long as your shooting form is good.
                          -Geoffrei


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Karen Nelson
                          Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 1:52 AM
                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow balance and weight

                          Very good idea. I'll try that.

                          Antoinette

                          Fritz <carl.west@...> wrote:
                          When Toni Nelson put fingers to keys it was 5/22/07 4:14 PM...


                          > So all my work at making my arrows match exactly is also what is also
                          > what is making me run through them so quickly. I keep setting them next
                          > to each other or splitting them in half.

                          Time to make yourself some targets with 12 to 18 spots on them. One
                          arrow per.

                          --
                          Fritz
                          Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.


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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                        • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                          Used 12 bull 50 ft 22 rifle targets would work at frog ranges(10-30 feet) would be cheep. James Cunningham
                          Message 12 of 26 , May 23, 2007
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                            Used 12 bull 50 ft 22 rifle targets would work at frog ranges(10-30 feet)
                            would be cheep.

                            James Cunningham
                          • Tim Henry
                            Timothy A. Henry 29 Mockingbird Drive Indiana PA 15701 Master Gwylim s e-mail is scalongbow@earthlink.net In service Laochlain Silverwolf ...
                            Message 13 of 26 , May 24, 2007
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                              Timothy A. Henry
                              29 Mockingbird Drive
                              Indiana PA 15701





                              Master Gwylim's e-mail is scalongbow@...




                              In service

                              Laochlain Silverwolf






                              >From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                              >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Contact Address
                              >Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:42:59 -0400
                              >
                              >I am in need of a current e-mail address for Gwilym, the former
                              >society archery marshal. Everything I have tried to send him lately
                              >has bounced.
                              > >
                              >Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                              >

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