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Re: Crossbow strings

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  • Jim McCoin
    ... crossbow string? ... As a total new guy, who made his first string this week. What kind of problems? Jim
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Ian Griffen <i_griffen@...> wrote:
      >
      > Has anyone had problems using a multi-corlored continuious loop
      crossbow string?
      >
      > Iain Griffen
      >
      >
      > 'AS unto the bowthe cord is,
      > So unto the man is woman;
      > Though she bends him, she obeys him,
      > though she draws him, yet she follows,
      > Useless each without the other.'
      > Longfellow, Hiawatha
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
      > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      As a total new guy, who made his first string this week. What kind of
      problems?

      Jim
      >
    • Dana DeGroat
      Any line only develops its full strength in a straight line pull with no bends or knots. A bend in a line as in around a bow nock reduces strength by about
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
        Any line only develops its full strength in a straight line pull with
        no bends or knots. A bend in a line as in around a bow nock reduces
        strength by about 20%. Knotting a line reduces strength by 20% to 50%
        depending on the knot used. In a total system of bends and knots as
        long as the right knots are used the overall strength of the line
        remains the same regardless of the number of knots or bends. If weaker
        knots are used then the total strength of the line will need to be
        increased approximately.

        Kind of a long winded way of saying that as long as it's done right
        mixing colors won't effect the strength of the line.

        Note. I spent 25 years as a captain of ocean going tugs mostly on trans
        Pacific routes so have some knowledge of line under load, given that
        your mileage may vary:) As they say different ships different long
        splices.

        In Service
        Dana the Unredy
      • latorrej@aol.com
        In a message dated 2/2/2007 7:22:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, SiegfriedFaust@gmail.com writes: Now, that said, I could see the possibility of using two colors,
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
          In a message dated 2/2/2007 7:22:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
          SiegfriedFaust@... writes:
          Now, that said, I could see the possibility of using two colors,
          basically making 2 endless loops on top of each other, and binding
          them together. But I would use a 'few more strands' than I would
          otherwise, to make up for the 'cut' in the string that you are making.
          I've used that method for a longbow string (to use up two different color
          leftovers!). The only problem was that, in serving the end loops, I wasn't
          careful to keep the colors separated. So, instead of a sting that appears to be
          two separate strands twisted together as in a flemish, the colors are
          distributed rather randomly. Doesn't look too bad, though, and works fine.

          Joseph de la Tour, West Kingdom


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Scott Jaqua
          You are in essence making two continuous loop strings. You may need an extra loop of both colors to make up for the break. That being said a few cautions. One,
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
            You are in essence making two continuous loop strings. You may need an
            extra loop of both colors to make up for the break. That being said a
            few cautions.

            One, don't knot your colors together. First wrap one color and anchor it
            on your jig and then do the other. Pull the ends of each color under
            the serving like usual. This might work better if you end the two colors
            on opposite ends of your jig.

            Two, make sure your two strands are equal in all ways. Diameter,
            strength, amount of wax, etc. If the strings are at all uneven, then
            they will stretch at different rates. This could put all the load on
            only one half of your string. The half that stretched out further or faster.

            And last, speaking of stretch, make sure you really pre-stretch your
            string before shooting it. Static force is much more forgiving then the
            force at release. String you crossbow for several days first. That will
            start the stretch. Then span the bow for several hours at a time. Last
            do a series of spanning a relaxing the bow. All this before your first
            shot. This will give as much stretch as possible and allow you see
            problems relating to how the string stretchs in early on.

            Njall
          • Rj Bachner
            What is wrong with a flemish crossbow string? You can mix colors as you wish and the braiding will even out the unequal bundle tension worries. Ragi ... From:
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
              What is wrong with a flemish crossbow string? You can mix colors as you wish
              and the braiding will even out the unequal bundle tension worries.

              Ragi

              -----Original Message-----
              From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Scott Jaqua
              Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 5:15 PM
              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Crossbow strings

              You are in essence making two continuous loop strings. You may need an
              extra loop of both colors to make up for the break. That being said a
              few cautions.

              One, don't knot your colors together. First wrap one color and anchor it
              on your jig and then do the other. Pull the ends of each color under
              the serving like usual. This might work better if you end the two colors
              on opposite ends of your jig.

              Two, make sure your two strands are equal in all ways. Diameter,
              strength, amount of wax, etc. If the strings are at all uneven, then
              they will stretch at different rates. This could put all the load on
              only one half of your string. The half that stretched out further or faster.

              And last, speaking of stretch, make sure you really pre-stretch your
              string before shooting it. Static force is much more forgiving then the
              force at release. String you crossbow for several days first. That will
              start the stretch. Then span the bow for several hours at a time. Last
              do a series of spanning a relaxing the bow. All this before your first
              shot. This will give as much stretch as possible and allow you see
              problems relating to how the string stretchs in early on.

              Njall


              --
              [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]

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            • Scott Jaqua
              ... you wish ... Nothing that I can think of. However it is outside my experience. I don t believe I have ever seen a flemish twist crossbow string. So I don t
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
                Rj Bachner wrote:

                > What is wrong with a flemish crossbow string? You can mix colors as
                you wish
                > and the braiding will even out the unequal bundle tension worries.

                Nothing that I can think of. However it is outside my experience. I
                don't believe I have ever seen a flemish twist crossbow string. So I
                don't know how it would work with the dynamic of a crossbow.

                Njall
              • i_griffen
                Many years ago I made a Flemish Crossbow string. For the life of me I am not able to remember the inches added to the prod length I think it was 6 . Iain
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
                  Many years ago I made a Flemish Crossbow string. For the life of me I
                  am not able to remember the inches added to the prod length I think it
                  was 6".


                  Iain Griffen

                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > What is wrong with a flemish crossbow string? You can mix colors as
                  you wish
                  > and the braiding will even out the unequal bundle tension worries.
                  >
                  > Ragi
                • i_griffen
                  When I laied up the string I layed both colors at the same time using equal tension.I started the loop on one end of the jig and finished ith on the other end.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
                    When I laied up the string I layed both colors at the same time using
                    equal tension.I started the loop on one end of the jig and finished
                    ith on the other end. when I seerved the string the starting and
                    ending were served into the eyes for the string.


                    I will let you know if I had any problems after Estrella War


                    Iain Griffen

                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Siegfried <SiegfriedFaust@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Unless you have some fancy multicolored Dacron ... then by
                    definition
                    > a multi-colored continuous loop string, doesn't exist.
                    >
                    > Since a continuous loop string derives much of it's strength by the
                    > fact that it's one, bit, long, loop of string.
                    >
                    > No breaks.
                    >
                    > Now, that said, I could see the possibility of using two colors,
                    > basically making 2 endless loops on top of each other, and binding
                    > them together. But I would use a 'few more strands' than I would
                    > otherwise, to make up for the 'cut' in the string that you are
                    making.
                    >
                    > Though, at the same time, if you are wanting a multicolored look ...
                    > why not just make a flemish string?
                    >
                    > Siegfried
                    >
                    > On 2/1/07, Ian Griffen <i_griffen@...> wrote:
                    > > Has anyone had problems using a multi-corlored continuious loop
                    crossbow string?
                    > >
                    > > Iain Griffen
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    >
                    ______________________________________________________________________
                    ___
                    > THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
                    > Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
                    > Kingdom of Atlantia - Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target
                    Archery
                    > http://eliw.com/ - http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
                    >
                  • Frederick Fenters
                    I have made strings with 2 sets of loops. I usually make them in contrasting colors. If done correctly, no problems. Sigfried is right, you make the string
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
                      I have made strings with 2 sets of loops. I usually make them in
                      contrasting colors. If done correctly, no problems. Sigfried is right, you
                      make the string with an extra strand or two.



                      Padraig



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • i_griffen
                      ... What kind of dynamics are you thinking about? I m not sure how much but, the Flemish Twist is slightly heaver than the Continious loop. Iain Griffen
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
                        >
                        > Nothing that I can think of. However it is outside my experience. I
                        > don't believe I have ever seen a flemish twist crossbow string. So I
                        > don't know how it would work with the dynamic of a crossbow.
                        >
                        > Njall
                        >
                        What kind of dynamics are you thinking about? I'm not sure how much
                        but, the Flemish Twist is slightly heaver than the Continious loop.

                        Iain Griffen
                      • Dayrl Merrill
                        I have made several 2 color continous loop crossbow strings, Actually as described 2 continous loops served together. How many extra strands if any would
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 3, 2007
                          I have made several 2 color continous loop crossbow strings, Actually as
                          described 2 continous loops served together. How many extra strands if any
                          would depend on the poundage of the crossbow.

                          Rask

                          At 05:48 PM 2/2/07, you wrote:

                          >Rj Bachner wrote:
                          >
                          > > What is wrong with a flemish crossbow string? You can mix colors as
                          >you wish
                          > > and the braiding will even out the unequal bundle tension worries.
                          >
                          >Nothing that I can think of. However it is outside my experience. I
                          >don't believe I have ever seen a flemish twist crossbow string. So I
                          >don't know how it would work with the dynamic of a crossbow.
                          >
                          >Njall
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • John Atkins
                          I have made Flemish crosbow strings and they work just dandy. Of course, like all Flemish strings they stretch at first and need to be twisted to compensate,
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 4, 2007
                            I have made Flemish crosbow strings and they work just dandy. Of
                            course, like all Flemish strings they stretch at first and need to be
                            twisted to compensate, but once stretched out they work just as well as
                            a continuous loop (made those too). The conpensation for the crossbow
                            versus a hand bow is that I served the end loops. I believe there is a
                            great deal more stress on the end loops of a crossbow string than a hand
                            bow string, thus the serving. I also double served the center/contact
                            area as this tends to take a great deal of stress both from contact with
                            the bolt end and the prod/guide rail. And, yes, they were pretty
                            because they were two toned. Look good, shoot good.

                            cog


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Scott B. Jaqua
                            Crossbow strings do take a lot of abuse at the loops. In part because this is where the shock is greatest at the end of the power stroke. But also in part
                            Message 13 of 16 , Feb 4, 2007
                              Crossbow strings do take a lot of abuse at the loops. In part because
                              this is where the shock is greatest at the end of the power stroke. But
                              also in part because the string is bent around a very small radius.
                              Another small radius is the sharp bend at the release nut when spanned.
                              So these are the two places I have seen crossbow strings fail.

                              Njall

                              --
                              Scott B. Jaqua
                              Hagerson Forge, Custom Blades from Historic Patterns
                              http://sjaqua.tripod.com
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