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Long bow

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  • ranulfmayle
    Ok, I have thought about this for a bit and have decided to try to get away from my modern manufacture recurve. I have two plans, one involves building a
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 26, 2006
      Ok, I have thought about this for a bit and have decided to try to get
      away from my modern manufacture recurve. I have two plans, one
      involves building a crossbow, the other involves making a long bow. I
      intend to try both, but as I dont currently have the hundred or so
      dollars to spend on metal bits of a crossbow and lack the metal
      working skills to build them myself, I have decided to make a long
      bow. Problem is I have NO clue whatsoever as to how to go about
      this. I have seen several postings about where to purchase a basic
      stave from, but where do I go from there? Any ideas or sources would
      be greatly appreciated.

      Ranulf
    • Cian of Storvik
      There is a tutorial in the files section I believe on building your own longbow (not a true ELB though). But I understand that English Longbows are bit more
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 26, 2006
        There is a tutorial in the files section I believe on building your
        own longbow (not a true ELB though). But I understand that English
        Longbows are bit more difficult then flatbows to tiller.
        I'm not saying that you can't do it. But if this is going to be one of
        your first bow-building experiences, it may not be the best starter
        project. I sort of think it's analogous someone going to a drag race,
        and the next day saying "I've never worked on a car, what's the first
        step to build myself a dragster?"

        With all of my earnest, I would suggest that you start off by owning a
        pre-made longbow from a bowyer. That way you can understand what the
        taper is like, what the bow feels like, draws like and shoots. They
        are a different animal from a recurve or flatbow.

        Then I would suggest that, you buy an "unfinished stave". These are
        bows where, a bowyer has selected the stave for you and made the
        initial rough cuts. You must finish by narrowing the limbs to your
        desired draw weight, sanding, sealing and cutting or adding horn nocks.
        In effect, you are doing all of the real "work", but they are selling
        you something that you can only learn with years of trial and error;
        finding a suitable bow stave. At this stage, you should have read a
        book or two on building a bow so you understand things like what it
        means when the bow is starting to hinge or what to do if the bow
        starts to twist on you as you are shapping the limbs or tillering.

        Once you are able to make a suitable bow from an unifinished stave, I
        would then suggest that you attempt to build your own bow from
        scratch. Selecting your own stave, testing it's moisture content, and
        buying all of the tools necessary to shave the stave into a suitable
        bow. (The last draw knife I purchased was like $54! The tools are a
        major investment for a bowyer). An expert bowyer with years of
        experience, building hundreds of bows occasionally does everything
        right, can spend weeks building a beautiful bow that just doesn't
        shoot well.

        A case in point is a tale I heard from someone that ordered a bow
        from, do not quote me on this, but I believe it was from Jay
        St.Charles. The bow took a very long time (I believe it was 3-6
        months). When the cutomer got the bow, there was a note appologizing
        for the delay, as well as a second bow, a twin of the other. But the
        first bow, though looking quite finished was snapped in twain. It
        seems that bowyer was disatisfied with the bow's performance, and
        himself had snapped the bow stave over his knee rather then send a bow
        that did not behave as a $600 bow should. He then had to start over
        from scratch to make a bow suitable to his reputation. He then sent
        both to the buyer as proof of his dedication to the craft.

        The reason that I suggest that you do not jump head-long into building
        your own longbow is that even if you do everything by the book, you
        still miss some of the intrinsics of bow-building that you can only
        understand by owning a correctly made bow in the first place. You may
        go through several bow staves before you even got a bow that will not
        snap or will even pull the weight you are aiming for. Also, the tools
        are not astronomical cost, but the basic ones will cost you about the
        same as a finished bow all-together ($100-$150), plus the cost of
        several staves and your time to manufacture it.

        That's my "glass is half empty" bit of advice.

        Also, though I like not to advertise for people I have never dealt
        with, but I really like the looks and cost of the english longbows at
        Rudderbows. They do not bend through the handle, but I like their
        taper. The limbs appear the same dimensions as on my $450 victorian
        bow and my $600 yew (following the 5/8ths rule). They also show the
        bows at full-draw, so you can see the circumscribed view of the bow.
        Which is something a lot of bowyers do not do.
        Honestly, I don't see how they can produce the bows at $125-
        $150/piece, but I plan on buying one sometime this coming year.
        (assuming they don't go out of business from selling their bows so
        inexpensively).
        -Cian

        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "ranulfmayle" <ranulfmayle@...>
        wrote:
        I have decided to make a long
        > bow.
        >
      • Dan Scheid
        Bowyers bible Vol 1-4 Damales _____ From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ranulfmayle Sent: Tuesday, December 26,
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 26, 2006
          Bowyers bible Vol 1-4

          Damales



          _____

          From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of ranulfmayle
          Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 2:11 AM
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Long bow



          Ok, I have thought about this for a bit and have decided to try to get
          away from my modern manufacture recurve. I have two plans, one
          involves building a crossbow, the other involves making a long bow. I
          intend to try both, but as I dont currently have the hundred or so
          dollars to spend on metal bits of a crossbow and lack the metal
          working skills to build them myself, I have decided to make a long
          bow. Problem is I have NO clue whatsoever as to how to go about
          this. I have seen several postings about where to purchase a basic
          stave from, but where do I go from there? Any ideas or sources would
          be greatly appreciated.

          Ranulf





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Rj Bachner
          Wow Cian such uncommon verbosity. ;) I have to mention though that one need not jump into bowmaking and start with a yew longbow. I am not entirely ready to
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 26, 2006
            Wow Cian such uncommon verbosity. ;)

            I have to mention though that one need not jump into bowmaking and start
            with a yew longbow. I am not entirely ready to play with yew yet and I have
            been doing this for years. And he did not say he wanted an ELB anyways. He
            simply wanted a longbow. Red oak, or White Ash or Rock maple will suit him
            fine. And buy his name, Ranulf, he sounds like a norse persona so a horn
            nocked ELB style is not appropriate anyways.

            Cheep lumber staves will not set him back bazzilions of dollars and making
            a first longbow is not hard. The model I suggest takes me about 4 hours to
            make and is a simple design based on a simple native American white wood bow
            among other influences. It is what I teach people to make first off and is
            much easier to make than a flat bow.

            The post I just made offers him some basic info he can start with right off.
            Your right he does need to learn what a bow is supposed to look and feel
            like but that does not mean he needs give up the idea of starting now.

            Merry Christmas or happy Yule Cian and don't be so glum.

            Ragi

            -----Original Message-----
            From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Cian of Storvik
            Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 10:21 AM
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [SCA-Archery] longbow learning curve was Re: Long bow

            There is a tutorial in the files section I believe on building your
            own longbow (not a true ELB though). But I understand that English
            Longbows are bit more difficult then flatbows to tiller.
            I'm not saying that you can't do it. But if this is going to be one of
            your first bow-building experiences, it may not be the best starter
            project. I sort of think it's analogous someone going to a drag race,
            and the next day saying "I've never worked on a car, what's the first
            step to build myself a dragster?"

            With all of my earnest, I would suggest that you start off by owning a
            pre-made longbow from a bowyer. That way you can understand what the
            taper is like, what the bow feels like, draws like and shoots. They
            are a different animal from a recurve or flatbow.

            Then I would suggest that, you buy an "unfinished stave". These are
            bows where, a bowyer has selected the stave for you and made the
            initial rough cuts. You must finish by narrowing the limbs to your
            desired draw weight, sanding, sealing and cutting or adding horn nocks.
            In effect, you are doing all of the real "work", but they are selling
            you something that you can only learn with years of trial and error;
            finding a suitable bow stave. At this stage, you should have read a
            book or two on building a bow so you understand things like what it
            means when the bow is starting to hinge or what to do if the bow
            starts to twist on you as you are shapping the limbs or tillering.

            Once you are able to make a suitable bow from an unifinished stave, I
            would then suggest that you attempt to build your own bow from
            scratch. Selecting your own stave, testing it's moisture content, and
            buying all of the tools necessary to shave the stave into a suitable
            bow. (The last draw knife I purchased was like $54! The tools are a
            major investment for a bowyer). An expert bowyer with years of
            experience, building hundreds of bows occasionally does everything
            right, can spend weeks building a beautiful bow that just doesn't
            shoot well.

            A case in point is a tale I heard from someone that ordered a bow
            from, do not quote me on this, but I believe it was from Jay
            St.Charles. The bow took a very long time (I believe it was 3-6
            months). When the cutomer got the bow, there was a note appologizing
            for the delay, as well as a second bow, a twin of the other. But the
            first bow, though looking quite finished was snapped in twain. It
            seems that bowyer was disatisfied with the bow's performance, and
            himself had snapped the bow stave over his knee rather then send a bow
            that did not behave as a $600 bow should. He then had to start over
            from scratch to make a bow suitable to his reputation. He then sent
            both to the buyer as proof of his dedication to the craft.

            The reason that I suggest that you do not jump head-long into building
            your own longbow is that even if you do everything by the book, you
            still miss some of the intrinsics of bow-building that you can only
            understand by owning a correctly made bow in the first place. You may
            go through several bow staves before you even got a bow that will not
            snap or will even pull the weight you are aiming for. Also, the tools
            are not astronomical cost, but the basic ones will cost you about the
            same as a finished bow all-together ($100-$150), plus the cost of
            several staves and your time to manufacture it.

            That's my "glass is half empty" bit of advice.

            Also, though I like not to advertise for people I have never dealt
            with, but I really like the looks and cost of the english longbows at
            Rudderbows. They do not bend through the handle, but I like their
            taper. The limbs appear the same dimensions as on my $450 victorian
            bow and my $600 yew (following the 5/8ths rule). They also show the
            bows at full-draw, so you can see the circumscribed view of the bow.
            Which is something a lot of bowyers do not do.
            Honestly, I don't see how they can produce the bows at $125-
            $150/piece, but I plan on buying one sometime this coming year.
            (assuming they don't go out of business from selling their bows so
            inexpensively).
            -Cian

            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "ranulfmayle" <ranulfmayle@...>
            wrote:
            I have decided to make a long
            > bow.
            >





            --
            [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Cian of Storvik
            You re right. I did go off on a tangent abut ELBs. And most of my warning is regarding the difficulty in making an ELB, which even though looks like a very
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 26, 2006
              You're right. I did go off on a tangent abut ELBs. And most of my
              warning is regarding the difficulty in making an ELB, which even
              though looks like a very simplistic bow can be frought with problems.
              (most self wood bows can be fabricated very fast, in a few hours in
              fact).

              I have heard of people making very suitable flat bows, and even stave
              bows right off the bat that work just fine to launch an arrow. But, I
              still believe it is a lot more work and investment then some bargain
              for to make your own bow, even when you have most of the tools
              required and a shop to do it in. And occasionally a person will try to
              reinvent the wheel, when they live next to a wheel factory.

              I agree with Ragi that PALEO PLANET is a great resource to reference
              for help, especially if you don't mind taking pictures of your work as
              you go along. The experienced bowyers can often spot potential hinges
              or areas in need of more attention just from a couple of photographs.
              -Cian
            • Rob Andersen
              Ranulf I am in a similar position! I want to build a crossbow, several in fact. I also have several traditional bows in mind. That is not counting several band
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 26, 2006
                Ranulf
                I am in a similar position! I want to build a crossbow, several in fact. I
                also have several traditional bows in mind. That is not counting several
                band guns, my wife will be fighting rapier. I do have allot of metal working
                experience (A rated journeyman machinist),
                I am very new to SCA (in Sept. I asked someone what is SCA when it came up
                in conversation). I am planning to start with arrow making then build a bow
                or two then target xbows. After that I will evaluate my interest and
                concentrate there.

                Here are 2 web sites that may help.
                Spoke shave
                http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=39917

                This looks like a reasonable approach to making a board bow. I am thinking
                about sinew rather than dry wall tape and no step unless it is for my kids.

                http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/index.html

                Skyper Anders

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "ranulfmayle" <ranulfmayle@...>
                To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 3:10 AM
                Subject: [SCA-Archery] Long bow


                > Ok, I have thought about this for a bit and have decided to try to get
                > away from my modern manufacture recurve. I have two plans, one
                > involves building a crossbow, the other involves making a long bow. I
                > intend to try both, but as I dont currently have the hundred or so
                > dollars to spend on metal bits of a crossbow and lack the metal
                > working skills to build them myself, I have decided to make a long
                > bow. Problem is I have NO clue whatsoever as to how to go about
                > this. I have seen several postings about where to purchase a basic
                > stave from, but where do I go from there? Any ideas or sources would
                > be greatly appreciated.
                >
                > Ranulf
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Carolus
                Beware Harbor Freight tools. They are made in China and are often of questionable materials. Not to say they don t work, I have a number of them myself, but
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 26, 2006
                  Beware Harbor Freight tools. They are made in China and are often of
                  questionable materials. Not to say they don't work, I have a number
                  of them myself, but they often are of poor quality. Notably, their
                  files and rasps dull on hardwood and their anvils dent even under the
                  pressure of hot iron. Expect to put a lot of time in sharpening a
                  spokeshave from them if you want a quality edge and not something for
                  a quick and dirty project.
                  Carolus

                  At 09:39 PM 12/26/2006, you wrote:

                  >Ranulf
                  >I am in a similar position! I want to build a crossbow, several in fact. I
                  >also have several traditional bows in mind. That is not counting several
                  >band guns, my wife will be fighting rapier. I do have allot of metal working
                  >experience (A rated journeyman machinist),
                  >I am very new to SCA (in Sept. I asked someone what is SCA when it came up
                  >in conversation). I am planning to start with arrow making then build a bow
                  >or two then target xbows. After that I will evaluate my interest and
                  >concentrate there.
                  >
                  >Here are 2 web sites that may help.
                  >Spoke shave
                  ><http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=39917>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=39917
                  >
                  >This looks like a reasonable approach to making a board bow. I am thinking
                  >about sinew rather than dry wall tape and no step unless it is for my kids.
                  >
                  ><http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/index.html>http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/index.html
                  >
                  >Skyper Anders
                  >
                  >----- Original Message -----
                  >From: "ranulfmayle" <<mailto:ranulfmayle%40yahoo.com>ranulfmayle@...>
                  >To: <<mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                  >Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 3:10 AM
                  >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Long bow
                  >
                  > > Ok, I have thought about this for a bit and have decided to try to get
                  > > away from my modern manufacture recurve. I have two plans, one
                  > > involves building a crossbow, the other involves making a long bow. I
                  > > intend to try both, but as I dont currently have the hundred or so
                  > > dollars to spend on metal bits of a crossbow and lack the metal
                  > > working skills to build them myself, I have decided to make a long
                  > > bow. Problem is I have NO clue whatsoever as to how to go about
                  > > this. I have seen several postings about where to purchase a basic
                  > > stave from, but where do I go from there? Any ideas or sources would
                  > > be greatly appreciated.
                  > >
                  > > Ranulf
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > [Email to
                  > <mailto:SCA-Archery-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > to leave this list]
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >No virus found in this incoming message.
                  >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  >Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.27/602 - Release Date:
                  >12/25/2006 10:19 AM


                  --
                  No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.27/602 - Release Date: 12/25/2006 10:19 AM
                • John edgerton
                  If you are interested in crossbow construction there is a SCA crossbow makers group on Yahoo. Goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Crossbow-Makers/ Jon ...
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 26, 2006
                    If you are interested in crossbow construction there is a SCA
                    crossbow makers group on Yahoo. Goto:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Crossbow-Makers/

                    Jon

                    On Dec 26, 2006, at 9:39 PM, Rob Andersen wrote:

                    > Ranulf
                    > I am in a similar position! I want to build a crossbow, several in
                    > fact. I
                    > also have several traditional bows in mind. That is not counting
                    > several
                    > band guns, my wife will be fighting rapier. I do have allot of
                    > metal working
                    > experience (A rated journeyman machinist),
                    > I am very new to SCA (in Sept. I asked someone what is SCA when it
                    > came up
                    > in conversation). I am planning to start with arrow making then
                    > build a bow
                    > or two then target xbows. After that I will evaluate my interest and
                    > concentrate there.
                    >
                    > Here are 2 web sites that may help.
                    > Spoke shave
                    > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=39917
                    >
                    > This looks like a reasonable approach to making a board bow. I am
                    > thinking
                    > about sinew rather than dry wall tape and no step unless it is for
                    > my kids.
                    >
                    > http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/index.html
                    >
                    > Skyper Anders


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jonas Poore
                    Buy the traditional bowyers bible, a lamp with adjustable brightness, a piece of insulated tubing long enough to fit the staff into and attach light fixture to
                    Message 9 of 11 , Dec 27, 2006
                      Buy the traditional bowyers bible, a lamp with adjustable brightness, a piece of insulated tubing long enough to fit the staff into and attach light fixture to one end with small air intake hole. Other end should be sealed except for small hole to let air out. Set with lamp on bottom and exit hole on top (verticle tube) then turn on lamp. Use meat thermometer to moniter heat. Set for approx 100 degrees f. and place staff in rig and wait two weeks. You will then have a nearly free bowstaff. I suggest you start with what ever grows a straight limb in your back yard.

                      Jonas

                      ranulfmayle <ranulfmayle@...> wrote:
                      Ok, I have thought about this for a bit and have decided to try to get
                      away from my modern manufacture recurve. I have two plans, one
                      involves building a crossbow, the other involves making a long bow. I
                      intend to try both, but as I dont currently have the hundred or so
                      dollars to spend on metal bits of a crossbow and lack the metal
                      working skills to build them myself, I have decided to make a long
                      bow. Problem is I have NO clue whatsoever as to how to go about
                      this. I have seen several postings about where to purchase a basic
                      stave from, but where do I go from there? Any ideas or sources would
                      be greatly appreciated.

                      Ranulf





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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Scott Jaqua
                      ... What he said, in spades! I have a number of Harbor Freight Tools. I am replacing them as time and money allows. It s a poor workman that blames his tools.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Dec 27, 2006
                        Carolus wrote:

                        > Beware Harbor Freight tools. They are made in China and are often of
                        > questionable materials. Not to say they don't work, I have a number
                        > of them myself, but they often are of poor quality. Notably, their
                        > files and rasps dull on hardwood and their anvils dent even under the
                        > pressure of hot iron. Expect to put a lot of time in sharpening a
                        > spokeshave from them if you want a quality edge and not something for
                        > a quick and dirty project.
                        > Carolus

                        What he said, in spades! I have a number of Harbor Freight Tools. I am
                        replacing them as time and money allows. It's a poor workman that blames
                        his tools. But truth be told you can really only do quality work with
                        quality tools. So while a poor workman blames his tools, a good workman
                        fixes them!

                        Quality tools not only make for quality work. They also save you time.
                        The time spent making a tool "work right" can be better spent making
                        whatever it is you want to make. I spend way too much time fiddling with
                        my Harbor Freight, metal cutting band saw. It should just be a case of
                        selcting and installing the correct blade and going to town. I should
                        not have to stop cutting to fix blade tracking problems on every cut.

                        My father had a great number of tools from Harbor Freight. Which
                        surprises me still. He had the money to get the best and the skill to
                        make use of the best. But while we didn't grow up poor, we sure didn't
                        have any extra when I was kid. And in reading my fathers auto-biography,
                        he really did grow up dirt poor. So I'm thinking the "making do with
                        cheap tools mind set" was firmly locked in for Dad.

                        As for the Harbor Freight ASO (Anvil Shaped Object) Carolus is talking
                        about. It really is that soft. I have an earlier one that is a little
                        better then what they are selling now. But it is still slated for
                        replacement, once I get my new shop set-up. As it is, it is currently
                        relegated to demo and teaching purposes only as my traveling anvil.

                        Njall
                        (Tool Junky)

                        Scott B. Jaqua
                        Hagerson Forge.
                      • Rj Bachner
                        Heya This is why I suggested, recommended what have you using Nicholson files and rasps they are the best no matter where you get them. I spose I should have
                        Message 11 of 11 , Dec 27, 2006
                          Heya

                          This is why I suggested, recommended what have you using Nicholson files and
                          rasps they are the best no matter where you get them.

                          I spose I should have suggested http://www.leevalley.com/wood/index.aspx?c=1
                          they carry the best tools and have as good a price as you can hope for.

                          Ragi

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of Scott Jaqua
                          Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 12:23 PM
                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Harbor Freight Tools, Was: Long bow

                          Carolus wrote:

                          > Beware Harbor Freight tools. They are made in China and are often of
                          > questionable materials. Not to say they don't work, I have a number
                          > of them myself, but they often are of poor quality. Notably, their
                          > files and rasps dull on hardwood and their anvils dent even under the
                          > pressure of hot iron. Expect to put a lot of time in sharpening a
                          > spokeshave from them if you want a quality edge and not something for
                          > a quick and dirty project.
                          > Carolus

                          What he said, in spades! I have a number of Harbor Freight Tools. I am
                          replacing them as time and money allows. It's a poor workman that blames
                          his tools. But truth be told you can really only do quality work with
                          quality tools. So while a poor workman blames his tools, a good workman
                          fixes them!

                          Quality tools not only make for quality work. They also save you time.
                          The time spent making a tool "work right" can be better spent making
                          whatever it is you want to make. I spend way too much time fiddling with
                          my Harbor Freight, metal cutting band saw. It should just be a case of
                          selcting and installing the correct blade and going to town. I should
                          not have to stop cutting to fix blade tracking problems on every cut.

                          My father had a great number of tools from Harbor Freight. Which
                          surprises me still. He had the money to get the best and the skill to
                          make use of the best. But while we didn't grow up poor, we sure didn't
                          have any extra when I was kid. And in reading my fathers auto-biography,
                          he really did grow up dirt poor. So I'm thinking the "making do with
                          cheap tools mind set" was firmly locked in for Dad.

                          As for the Harbor Freight ASO (Anvil Shaped Object) Carolus is talking
                          about. It really is that soft. I have an earlier one that is a little
                          better then what they are selling now. But it is still slated for
                          replacement, once I get my new shop set-up. As it is, it is currently
                          relegated to demo and teaching purposes only as my traveling anvil.

                          Njall
                          (Tool Junky)

                          Scott B. Jaqua
                          Hagerson Forge.



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