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Re: [SCA-Archery] Bow Advice Wanted

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  • Richard Yeager
    I would be willing to talk about a possible trade. My lady and I sell longbows. If you want to contact us off list, we can be reached at octtazae_traditions
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 12, 2006
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      I would be willing to talk about a possible trade. My
      lady and I sell longbows. If you want to contact us
      off list, we can be reached at octtazae_traditions at
      yahoo.com

      Cuan mac Niall

      --- Lord Caedmon Wilson <caedmon.wilson@...>
      wrote:

      > I have been a good boy this year and not shot my
      > handbow while my
      > right hand and wrist have recovered from whatever it
      > was that was
      > causing me pain.
      >
      > I have come to the conclusion that I am going to
      > move down in poundage
      > to 25#, if I stick with recurve. I have interested
      > in shooting more
      > longbow, but the one I currently own is too light.
      > It is 33# at 29",
      > but doesn't have much oomph for shooting beyond 30
      > yards.
      >
      > I also like the horsebows. I have shot one before
      > and liked it. This
      > one intrigues me the most.
      >
      > The idea came to me that maybe I could try and trade
      > my 30# Martin
      > X-100 with someone. Or sell it. I have my wife's
      > 25# Martin X-100 to
      > shoot recurve with.
      >
      > --
      > Lord Caedmon Wilson
      >
      > Oaken Region Youth Combat Marshal
      > Oaken Region Thrown Weapon Champion
      >
      > Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris,
      > ad caput tuum
      > saxum immane mittam.
      >


      __________________________________________________
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    • Christopher
      I have a request! I have come into possesion of two unfinish longbows. How would I finish them for use within the SCA? and what are the best arrow styles to
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 12, 2006
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        I have a request!

        I have come into possesion of two unfinish longbows. How would I
        finish them for use within the SCA? and what are the best arrow
        styles to use with them for SCA combat?
      • Lord Caedmon Wilson
        ... Excellent observation! In one respect, I want to keep shooting, but I need to loosen the draw weight of my future bow, but I need to balance a lower draw
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 12, 2006
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          On 9/12/06, Christopher <ecks_tra@...> wrote:
          > not trying to nick pick or anything, but the post says asking for
          > advice, was just wondering where your request was at?

          Excellent observation!

          In one respect, I want to keep shooting, but I need to loosen the draw
          weight of my future bow, but I need to balance a lower draw weight
          with still being able to accurately hit a 30 and 40 yard target.

          My wife's 30#-ish longbow is not very good for 30+ yard shooting, it
          just isn't strong enough.

          I would need a longbow or horsebow that will allow me to maintain the
          equivalent speed of a 25# recurve which I know can shoot 40 yards very
          well (my wife's 25# recurve).

          So, the advice request comes in with recommendations of handbow
          aspects to look at and help with my desire to still shoot handbow, but
          not stress my right hand too much.

          -Caedmon
        • James W. Pratt, Jr.
          ... The arrow styles that is approved for use by your kingdom or the arrow styles approved for use at the war you go to ie: Pennsic or Lillies. James
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 12, 2006
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            > I have a request!
            >
            > I have come into possesion of two unfinish longbows. How would I
            > finish them for use within the SCA? and what are the best arrow
            > styles to use with them for SCA combat?


            The arrow styles that is approved for use by your kingdom or the arrow
            styles approved for use at the war you go to ie: Pennsic or Lillies.

            James Cunningham
          • James Koch
            Caedmon, ... Your lungs are fine. Just shoot the blowgun until your arm gets better! ... Jim (Gladius)
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 12, 2006
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              Caedmon,
              >
              Your lungs are fine. Just shoot the blowgun until your arm gets better!
              >
              Jim (Gladius)
            • jameswolfden
              Perhaps it is the arrows and not the bow that might help. A thirty pound longbow should be plenty of power to hit 40 yards if the arrows are right. If you
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 12, 2006
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                Perhaps it is the arrows and not the bow that might help. A thirty
                pound longbow should be plenty of power to hit 40 yards if the
                arrows are right.

                If you shooting 11/32" then I would recommend dropping to 5/16". I
                shoot a 30# selfbow and aim just above the target at 40 and just
                under the gold at 30. When I initially started shooting the bow I
                was using arrows around 5/16" and 28"long and I could aim at the
                gold at 40 but my 30 and 20 marks were in the dirt. It was hard to
                be consistent. I played with the arrows a little bit. I settled on
                5/16" 32" arrows and this helped a lot. I would recommend trying
                that first before switching to another bow.

                Though, of course, you will want your own bow. I would recommend
                getting a simple long bow in the english style, either self or a
                simple hickory backing. I do have a half-baked theory that at the
                low weights, a self bow is more efficient than a laminated longbow
                due to lighter limb mass. Thirty-five pounds might give you the
                speed you want but I am not sure what your upper limit is before you
                start doing damage again to your right hand.

                First choice. Bring your arrow weight down if you can before going
                up in bow poundage to get the speed you desire.

                In Service,
                James Wolfden
              • Richard Yeager
                The lighter shafts might help some, but I would HIGHLY advise you to NOT move to a longer arrow shaft unless you are certain that your bow is tillered to a
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 13, 2006
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                  The lighter shafts might help some, but I would HIGHLY advise you to NOT move to a longer arrow shaft unless you are certain that your bow is tillered to a longer draw length. If you move to a longer arrow, you may end up overdrawing the bow. That can damage the bow, possibly in a catastrophic manner. If the bow is tillered to a 28" draw, then stick with 29" arrows.

                  Another thought is that, with the new federal excise tax on arrows, a new flight of arrows can cost as much as a new bow.

                  Cuan mac Niall
                  Kee's Longbows

                  jameswolfden <jameswolfden@...> wrote:
                  Perhaps it is the arrows and not the bow that might help. A thirty
                  pound longbow should be plenty of power to hit 40 yards if the
                  arrows are right.

                  If you shooting 11/32" then I would recommend dropping to 5/16". I
                  shoot a 30# selfbow and aim just above the target at 40 and just
                  under the gold at 30. When I initially started shooting the bow I
                  was using arrows around 5/16" and 28"long and I could aim at the
                  gold at 40 but my 30 and 20 marks were in the dirt. It was hard to
                  be consistent. I played with the arrows a little bit. I settled on
                  5/16" 32" arrows and this helped a lot. I would recommend trying
                  that first before switching to another bow.

                  Though, of course, you will want your own bow. I would recommend
                  getting a simple long bow in the english style, either self or a
                  simple hickory backing. I do have a half-baked theory that at the
                  low weights, a self bow is more efficient than a laminated longbow
                  due to lighter limb mass. Thirty-five pounds might give you the
                  speed you want but I am not sure what your upper limit is before you
                  start doing damage again to your right hand.

                  First choice. Bring your arrow weight down if you can before going
                  up in bow poundage to get the speed you desire.

                  In Service,
                  James Wolfden






                  ---------------------------------
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John edgerton
                  Quite true, if you draw the full length of the longer shaft. However, some archers use arrows longer than their normal draw so that the tip of the arrow can
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 13, 2006
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                    Quite true, if you draw the full length of the longer shaft. However,
                    some archers use arrows longer than their normal draw so that the tip
                    of the arrow can be can be sighted closer to the gold at close range,
                    rather than down in the dirt in front of the target. Using an arrow
                    longer than your normal draw does not necessary mean that you are
                    drawing that arrow to its full draw.

                    Jon
                    On Wednesday, September 13, 2006, at 02:11 PM, Richard Yeager wrote:

                    > The lighter shafts might help some, but I would HIGHLY advise you to
                    > NOT move to a longer arrow shaft unless you are certain that your bow
                    > is tillered to a longer draw length. If you move to a longer arrow,
                    > you may end up overdrawing the bow. That can damage the bow, possibly
                    > in a catastrophic manner. If the bow is tillered to a 28" draw, then
                    > stick with 29" arrows.
                    >
                    > Another thought is that, with the new federal excise tax on arrows, a
                    > new flight of arrows can cost as much as a new bow.
                    >
                    > Cuan mac Niall
                    > Kee's Longbows

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • jameswolfden
                    I agree about not overdrawing but it also depends on how you draw. My drawlength is 26.5 inches to the corner of my mouth. Normally, I keep my arrows around
                    Message 9 of 20 , Sep 13, 2006
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                      I agree about not overdrawing but it also depends on how you draw. My
                      drawlength is 26.5 inches to the corner of my mouth. Normally, I keep
                      my arrows around 28". Even with these longer arrows, my drawlength
                      hasn't changed because my anchor hasn't changed. I did tiller the bow
                      out to 28" just in case of the occasional overdraw.

                      Now I would not hand my bow with 32" arrows to anyone else and say go
                      ahead and give it a try. That would be asking for trouble.

                      But, in principle, I agree. For selfbows, know what it is tillered
                      for and don't overdraw it.


                      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Richard Yeager <chuymonstre@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > The lighter shafts might help some, but I would HIGHLY advise you
                      to NOT move to a longer arrow shaft unless you are certain that your
                      bow is tillered to a longer draw length. If you move to a longer
                      arrow, you may end up overdrawing the bow. That can damage the bow,
                      possibly in a catastrophic manner. If the bow is tillered to a 28"
                      draw, then stick with 29" arrows.
                      >
                      > Another thought is that, with the new federal excise tax on
                      arrows, a new flight of arrows can cost as much as a new bow.
                      >
                      > Cuan mac Niall
                      > Kee's Longbows
                      >
                    • Frederick Fenters
                      In order to speak to combat arrows, we need to know what kingdom you are a subject of. Each of the kingdoms has its own rules regarding combat archery. If
                      Message 10 of 20 , Sep 13, 2006
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                        In order to speak to combat arrows, we need to know what kingdom you are a
                        subject of. Each of the kingdoms has its own rules regarding combat
                        archery. If your question is about what type of finish to apply to the
                        bows, that also is complex. It will depend on how much maintenance you wish
                        to put into your bow's finish on a continuing basis, how "real period" you
                        wish to be and what is easily available to you.



                        I personally would probably use a modern polyurethane finish, simply for
                        easy maintenance and moisture seal, since in Michigan we have such wide
                        variations in humidity and heat. Your mileage may vary, void where
                        prohibited, licensed drivers only.



                        Padraig MacRaighne



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Frederick Fenters
                        Hey Caedmon, I know of a couple of hot sticks who shoot light weight bows for a variety of reasons. With properly matched arrows, they are able to toss to
                        Message 11 of 20 , Sep 13, 2006
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                          Hey Caedmon,



                          I know of a couple of "hot sticks" who shoot light weight bows for a variety
                          of reasons. With properly matched arrows, they are able to toss to the
                          clout and even beyond. I saw James' message and absolutely agree. Try
                          working with your arrow weight, length, length of fletching, point weight,
                          and anything else you can think of to vary. Change only one parameter at a
                          time, as much as you are able. That's what I did until I found the crossbow
                          bolts that work best for me.



                          Padraig



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Christopher
                          ... UNfortunately, that doesnt help me much since I have never gone to either Pennsic or Lillies...I am bran spankin new at all this and have only gone to one
                          Message 12 of 20 , Sep 14, 2006
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                            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
                            <cunning@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > I have a request!
                            > >
                            > > I have come into possesion of two unfinish longbows. How would I
                            > > finish them for use within the SCA? and what are the best arrow
                            > > styles to use with them for SCA combat?
                            >
                            >
                            > The arrow styles that is approved for use by your kingdom or the arrow
                            > styles approved for use at the war you go to ie: Pennsic or Lillies.
                            >
                            > James Cunningham
                            >
                            UNfortunately, that doesnt help me much since I have never gone to
                            either Pennsic or Lillies...I am bran spankin new at all this and have
                            only gone to one sca event so far. I am part of the Kingdom of the
                            West, but havent looked through any of their books on the
                            topic...thought I could find a short cut
                          • Christopher
                            Thank you, I am looking for easy of use, I live in Alaska (kingdom of the West, Oertha Barony) Weather is not to different from Michigan. I think. ... are a
                            Message 13 of 20 , Sep 14, 2006
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                              Thank you, I am looking for easy of use, I live in Alaska (kingdom of
                              the West, Oertha Barony) Weather is not to different from Michigan. I
                              think.

                              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Frederick Fenters" <padraig@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > In order to speak to combat arrows, we need to know what kingdom you
                              are a
                              > subject of. Each of the kingdoms has its own rules regarding combat
                              > archery. If your question is about what type of finish to apply to the
                              > bows, that also is complex. It will depend on how much maintenance
                              you wish
                              > to put into your bow's finish on a continuing basis, how "real
                              period" you
                              > wish to be and what is easily available to you.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I personally would probably use a modern polyurethane finish, simply for
                              > easy maintenance and moisture seal, since in Michigan we have such wide
                              > variations in humidity and heat. Your mileage may vary, void where
                              > prohibited, licensed drivers only.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Padraig MacRaighne
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                              Sorry, In this group there are no shortcuts - some friendly advice, lots of help, good people - but no shortcuts. Its hard work but worth every minute in the
                              Message 14 of 20 , Sep 14, 2006
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                                Sorry, In this group there are no shortcuts - some friendly advice,
                                lots of help, good people - but no shortcuts. Its hard work but
                                worth every minute in the end.
                                Carolus


                                UNfortunately, that doesnt help me much since I have never gone to
                                >either Pennsic or Lillies...I am bran spankin new at all this and have
                                >only gone to one sca event so far. I am part of the Kingdom of the
                                >West, but havent looked through any of their books on the
                                >topic...thought I could find a short cut


                                --
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                                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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                              • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                                Well then welcome to the SCA! You have the Western War to go to! The short cut is to look through the West Kingdoms web site for combat archery this list
                                Message 15 of 20 , Sep 14, 2006
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                                  Well then welcome to the SCA! You have the Western War to go to! The short
                                  cut is to look through the West Kingdoms web site for "combat archery" this
                                  list consentrates on target archery. There is another Yahoo group list that
                                  will explain how you kill a rino with a combat arrow. If youare going to
                                  use your bow in combat archery seal them well they will get abused.

                                  James Cunningham

                                  > UNfortunately, that doesnt help me much since I have never gone to
                                  > either Pennsic or Lillies...I am bran spankin new at all this and have
                                  > only gone to one sca event so far. I am part of the Kingdom of the
                                  > West, but havent looked through any of their books on the
                                  > topic...thought I could find a short cut
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Godwin FitzGilbert de Strigoil
                                  Getting your arrows to fly their furthest, is more than just dropping arrow weight, for what appears to really be an unkown bow. Longbows are especially
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Sep 14, 2006
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                                    Getting your arrows to fly their furthest, is more than just dropping
                                    arrow weight, for what appears to really be an unkown bow.
                                    Longbows are especially finicky about what arrow they like to throw.

                                    Your bow will "like" an arrow with a specific weight, length and spine
                                    measurement. It takes some time to find all those in one piece of wood.
                                    Here's the list, from first to last, (IMO) of specifics to know about
                                    your arrow:
                                    1. Make the arrow 1/2" to 1" , longer than your draw length. (I make
                                    mine about 3/4" longer)
                                    2. For longbows, start with a spine weight about 10 below your bow.
                                    Shoot a few different ones, find the one that doesn't fishtail.
                                    3. As far as the total weight of the arrow.... "start" around a factor
                                    of ten more than the bow weight: bow=50, arrow weight=500. (it's just a
                                    good place to start).
                                    4. Shoot different shafts made up of 1, 2 & 3. When you hit the sweet
                                    spot of limb speed vs. arrow mass, you will find your bow shooting
                                    "sweet" - little to no hand shock whatsoever. That's because your bow is
                                    transferring all of that kinetic energy into the arrow, and that arrow
                                    is taking it away from the bow. Handshock "generally" describes a
                                    situation whereby your equipment is not matched.

                                    You can have too light an arrow. The arrow recieves the first push from
                                    the string and immediately starts moving away from the string, because
                                    it's mass is allowing it to outrun the string, from that first contact.
                                    - handshock. Of course a too heavy arrow is much easeir to diagnose,
                                    they fly like bricks, and consitently hit the ground in front of the target.


                                    Godwin
                                  • Christopher
                                    LOL..sorry, had an unusual picture pop into my head when I am told to seal anything... ... The short ... archery this ... list that ... going to
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Sep 14, 2006
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                                      LOL..sorry, had an unusual picture pop into my head when I am told to
                                      "seal" anything...

                                      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
                                      <cunning@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Well then welcome to the SCA! You have the Western War to go to!
                                      The short
                                      > cut is to look through the West Kingdoms web site for "combat
                                      archery" this
                                      > list consentrates on target archery. There is another Yahoo group
                                      list that
                                      > will explain how you kill a rino with a combat arrow. If youare
                                      going to
                                      > use your bow in combat archery seal them well they will get abused.
                                      >
                                      > James Cunningham
                                      >
                                      > > UNfortunately, that doesnt help me much since I have never gone to
                                      > > either Pennsic or Lillies...I am bran spankin new at all this and have
                                      > > only gone to one sca event so far. I am part of the Kingdom of the
                                      > > West, but havent looked through any of their books on the
                                      > > topic...thought I could find a short cut
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --
                                      > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                      > >
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • John edgerton
                                      You can also join the West Kingdom archery list: SCA-West-Archery-subscribe@yahoogroups.com The West uses fiberglass shafts with either Baldar blunts or UHMW.
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Sep 14, 2006
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                                        You can also join the West Kingdom archery list:
                                        SCA-West-Archery-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                        The West uses fiberglass shafts with either Baldar blunts or UHMW. You
                                        should be able to get answers to your questions
                                        on the list. But, part of becoming authorized is reading and knowing
                                        the rules anyway. :-)

                                        Jon
                                        On Thursday, September 14, 2006, at 12:26 AM, Christopher wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > UNfortunately, that doesnt help me much since I have never gone to
                                        > either Pennsic or Lillies...I am bran spankin new at all this and have
                                        > only gone to one sca event so far. I am part of the Kingdom of the
                                        > West, but havent looked through any of their books on the
                                        > topic...thought I could find a short cut


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