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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Into the fray

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  • John edgerton
    In English, so it will be understandable without need for translation. If in Welsh, then even the Welsh could not understand it. ;-) Although I did read that
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 4, 2006
      In English, so it will be understandable without need for translation.

      If in Welsh, then even the Welsh could not understand it. ;-)
      Although I did read that they are trying to reintroduce the language.

      Jon
      On Monday, September 4, 2006, at 11:05 AM, Godwin FitzGilbert de
      Strigoil wrote:
      >

      Misc deleted

      > For an archery coin, we need to look for incorporation, and not
      > division.
      >
      > Jon, did you ask about language? I can't remember..... was the motto
      > going to be in Latin?......
      > or Welsh... ;)
      >
      > Godwin


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Laebeth Cúriel
      Actually, “south” Welsh has been experiencing a renaissance over the past few decades. North Welsh is still the first language learned by many in the,
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 4, 2006
        Actually, “south” Welsh has been experiencing a renaissance over the past
        few decades. North Welsh is still the first language learned by many in
        the, well, north, of course. English is taught in the schools, but the
        language remains well alive in the rural communities.



        Os treisiodd y gelyn fy ngwlad dan ei droed,
        Mae hen iaith y Cymry mor fyw ag erioed,
        Ni luddiwyd yr awen gan erchyll law brad,
        Na thelyn berseiniol fy ngwlad.



        Gwlad, Gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad,
        Tra môr yn fur i'r bur hoff bau,
        O bydded i'r heniaith barhau.



        [rough English translation

        Though the enemy has trampled my country underfoot,
        The old language of the Welsh knows no retreat,
        The treacherous hand has not hindered the spirit Nor has it silenced the
        sweet harp of my land.



        Land! Land! I am true to my land!
        As long as the see serves as a wall for this pure, dear land
        May the language endure for ever.



        Y Ddraig Goch ddyrry cychwyn!



        Laebeth





        P.S. The popularity of JRR Tolkien’s Sindarin language, resulting from the
        success of the LotR movies, also gave Welsh a boost, as JRRT used Welsh as
        the structural basis for that common language of the Elves.





        ~dabcdabdcabcdabc~

        One Arrow



        Arrows@...

        www.1Arrow.net <http://www.1arrow.net/>



        _____

        From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of John edgerton
        Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:41 PM
        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Into the fray



        In English, so it will be understandable without need for translation.

        If in Welsh, then even the Welsh could not understand it. ;-)
        Although I did read that they are trying to reintroduce the language.

        Jon
        On Monday, September 4, 2006, at 11:05 AM, Godwin FitzGilbert de
        Strigoil wrote:
        >

        Misc deleted

        > For an archery coin, we need to look for incorporation, and not
        > division.
        >
        > Jon, did you ask about language? I can't remember..... was the motto
        > going to be in Latin?......
        > or Welsh... ;)
        >
        > Godwin

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Laebeth Cúriel
        [BAD FINGERS! SENT THIS BEFORE I COULD TYPE THE TITLE OF THE VERSES.] Actually, “south” Welsh has been experiencing a renaissance over the past few
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 4, 2006
          [BAD FINGERS! SENT THIS BEFORE I COULD TYPE THE TITLE OF THE VERSES.]



          Actually, “south” Welsh has been experiencing a renaissance over the past
          few decades. North Welsh is still the first language learned by many in
          the, well, north, of course. English is taught in the schools, but the
          language remains well alive in the rural communities.



          This is the last verse and chorus from Hen ‘Wlad Fy Nhadau, the unofficial
          anthem of Wales (Land of my Fathers).



          Os treisiodd y gelyn fy ngwlad dan ei droed,
          Mae hen iaith y Cymry mor fyw ag erioed,
          Ni luddiwyd yr awen gan erchyll law brad,
          Na thelyn berseiniol fy ngwlad.



          Gwlad, Gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad,
          Tra môr yn fur i'r bur hoff bau,
          O bydded i'r heniaith barhau.



          [rough English translation

          Though the enemy has trampled my country underfoot,
          The old language of the Welsh knows no retreat,
          The treacherous hand has not hindered the spirit

          Nor has it silenced the sweet harp of my land.



          Land! Land! I am true to my land!
          As long as the see serves as a wall for this pure, dear land
          May the language endure for ever.



          Y Ddraig Goch ddyrry cychwyn!



          Laebeth





          P.S. The popularity of JRR Tolkien’s Sindarin language, resulting from the
          success of the LotR movies, also gave Welsh a boost, as JRRT used Welsh as
          the structural basis for that common language of the Elves.





          ~dabcdabdcabcdabc~

          One Arrow



          Arrows@...

          www.1Arrow.net <http://www.1arrow.net/>



          _____

          From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of John edgerton
          Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:41 PM
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Into the fray



          In English, so it will be understandable without need for translation.

          If in Welsh, then even the Welsh could not understand it. ;-)
          Although I did read that they are trying to reintroduce the language.

          Jon
          On Monday, September 4, 2006, at 11:05 AM, Godwin FitzGilbert de
          Strigoil wrote:
          >

          Misc deleted

          > For an archery coin, we need to look for incorporation, and not
          > division.
          >
          > Jon, did you ask about language? I can't remember..... was the motto
          > going to be in Latin?......
          > or Welsh... ;)
          >
          > Godwin

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Luigi Kapaj
          Hmmm... Must make a few comments based of recent research. ... In Medieval Chinese armies, it was the exact opposite of this situation. Archers were highly
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 5, 2006
            Hmmm... Must make a few comments based of recent research.

            > Marcus offered,
            > "Although there is room for arguement, I have the perspective
            > that Archors are for Artillery (i.e. Raining Death) and
            > Crossbowmen are more for direct fire (i.e. Sniping).
            > Crossbow bolts tend to shoot straighter and penetrate
            > better than arrows. So coming up with a motto that implies
            > these Crossbow traits would be better suited in my mind."

            In Medieval Chinese armies, it was the exact opposite of this situation.
            Archers were highly skilled and in training year round. Crossbows were used
            for feudal levies with little training as it took less time to get them to
            combat effectiveness. Rows of crossbowmen were used to attrition enemy lines
            while the more skilled archers used their bows to snipe any troops that were
            getting through the hail of bolts.


            > ...They did
            > not use siege tactics until learned from Europeans, and then
            > proved effective in using gleaned arrows of any length and strength.

            True, the Mongols did use arrow fire in both direct sniping and in an
            artillery like manner. Mongol troops were mobile and often used both these
            and other styles of archery fire in a single battle.

            But make no mistake about the effectiveness of siege weapons in the Mongol
            war machine. Mongols were laying siege to Chinese and Middle Eastern cities
            long before they even heard of Europe. They developed their own tactics and
            incorporated knowledge and technology whenever they could, even what little
            Europe had to offer. Mongols took the siege equipment and weapons they found
            along the way, enhanced them, and developed new tactical uses. Mongols
            invented the cannon. Mongols invented many open field uses of siege weapons
            that are still in use today including rolling barrages.

            Many tactics used in SCA battles are modern, not Medieval, except that some
            of them are derived from tacticians who studied Mongol warfare and gave them
            their own names: 3 prong attack, blitzkrieg...


            References:
            The Devil's Horsemen, by James Chambers
            Subotai the Valiant, by Richard A. Gabriel
            Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World, by Jack Weatherford
            Chinese Archery, by Stephen Selby
            http://silverhorde.viahistoria.com/research/tactics.html



            -Puppy

            Gulugjab Tangghudai
            Khan of the Silver Horde

            http://www.NYCMongol.com
            * New expanded inventory *
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