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RE: [SCA-Archery] Long arrows

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  • Luigi Kapaj
    I have a 36 draw too. Longer draws are common with Asian archery styles. I got my last set of arrows from Yumi. He sets up shop at Pennsic, or you can email
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 30, 2006
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      I have a 36" draw too. Longer draws are common with Asian archery styles. I
      got my last set of arrows from Yumi. He sets up shop at Pennsic, or you can
      email him to order at: kkoppedr@...


      -Puppy

      Gulugjab Tangghudai
      Khan of the Silver Horde

      http://www.NYCMongol.com
      * Merchanting at Pennsic *
    • Sheri Rees
      Hi all, I know some of you run archery shops and others just have some good info on what s out there. Does anyone know where I can get long shafting for
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 30, 2006
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        Hi all,

        I know some of you run 'archery shops' and others just have some good
        info on what's out there.

        Does anyone know where I can get long shafting for arrows? Either
        cedar, hardwood, bamboo, or footed shafts? My hubby has a ridiculous
        36" draw length and I made him a yew longbow at that draw.

        Thanks much
        Shadhra
      • Lady Sabran
        You might want to try hexshafts.com I really like their arrow shafts and my whole family uses them for their arrows. Carres Sabran Tir Ysgithr, Atenveldt ...
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 30, 2006
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          You might want to try hexshafts.com I really like their arrow shafts and my whole family uses them for their arrows.

          Carres Sabran
          Tir Ysgithr, Atenveldt


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Sheri Rees<mailto:s.l.rees@...>
          To: sca-archery@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sca-archery@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 11:04 AM
          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Long arrows


          Hi all,

          I know some of you run 'archery shops' and others just have some good
          info on what's out there.

          Does anyone know where I can get long shafting for arrows? Either
          cedar, hardwood, bamboo, or footed shafts? My hubby has a ridiculous
          36" draw length and I made him a yew longbow at that draw.

          Thanks much
          Shadhra





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Robert Lauderdale
          ... And that, ladies and gentlemen, is true love. Chidiock
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 30, 2006
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            At 11:04 AM 6/30/06 -0700, you wrote:
            > My hubby has a ridiculous
            >36" draw length and I made him a yew longbow at that draw.
            >
            >Thanks much
            >Shadhra

            And that, ladies and gentlemen, is true love.

            Chidiock
          • Rj Bachner
            Well most suppliers of arrow shafts deal in 32 inches as a max, if you find someone who cuts their own shafting then they can make you arrows any length you
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 1, 2006
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              Well most suppliers of arrow shafts deal in 32 inches as a max, if you find
              someone who cuts their own shafting then they can make you arrows any length
              you need. I can also explain how to make your own shafts if you wish, they
              can be done by hand and if you can make a longbow of yew then you can make
              your own arrows.

              I don't think footing is gonna be a good idea really, the added weight of
              those longer shafts will slow down the arrows as is the footing will be
              worse.

              You might consider going to a hardware store and collecting 4 foot dowels in
              the spine and weight you need, if you don't know how find someone who has a
              spine jig and a grain scale to select out the arrows you need.

              What draw weight is the bow at his draw length anyways?

              Ragi

              -----Original Message-----
              From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Sheri Rees
              Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 2:05 PM
              To: sca-archery@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [SCA-Archery] Long arrows

              Hi all,

              I know some of you run 'archery shops' and others just have some good
              info on what's out there.

              Does anyone know where I can get long shafting for arrows? Either
              cedar, hardwood, bamboo, or footed shafts? My hubby has a ridiculous
              36" draw length and I made him a yew longbow at that draw.

              Thanks much
              Shadhra



              --
              [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]

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            • Sheri Rees
              All good ideas Ragi, I have tried sorting through the dowels at the store. 2 main problems - I ve never found more than 6-8 straightish ones at a time and I
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 2, 2006
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                All good ideas Ragi,

                I have tried sorting through the dowels at the store. 2 main
                problems - I've never found more than 6-8 straightish ones at a time
                and I have a 2yr old who quickly gets bored with this game.

                I haven't tried making my own - not sure I have the correct tools and
                again that 2 yr old who gets bored. Are the instructions on your DIY
                pages? Or please send them to me - I'll give it a try. The added
                weight from footing may be acceptable if that's all I can find. Some
                of these may become hunting arrows - if he determines that he can hit
                the target accurately enough.

                I made the bow to be 58 lb at 36". His big problem with other bows
                is that by the time he pulls them back to his full draw length they
                stack horribly and pinch his fingers. And shooting a 80+ pound bow
                when you're first starting is not exactly conducive to learning. So
                I made one as tall as him (80 inch) with a modest poundage at his
                range (equates to something like 32 lb at 28").

                Thanks
                Shadhra

                At 11:25 AM 7/1/2006, you wrote:
                >Well most suppliers of arrow shafts deal in 32 inches as a max, if you find
                >someone who cuts their own shafting then they can make you arrows any length
                >you need. I can also explain how to make your own shafts if you wish, they
                >can be done by hand and if you can make a longbow of yew then you can make
                >your own arrows.
                >
                >I don't think footing is gonna be a good idea really, the added weight of
                >those longer shafts will slow down the arrows as is the footing will be
                >worse.
                >
                >You might consider going to a hardware store and collecting 4 foot dowels in
                >the spine and weight you need, if you don't know how find someone who has a
                >spine jig and a grain scale to select out the arrows you need.
                >
                >What draw weight is the bow at his draw length anyways?
                >
                >Ragi
              • Rj Bachner
                Heya Yeah the dowel route takes time for sure, I would not worrry so much about straightness as nice straight clean grain.all the rest can be fixed. The
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 2, 2006
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                  Heya

                  Yeah the dowel route takes time for sure, I would not worrry so much about
                  straightness as nice straight clean grain.all the rest can be fixed.

                  The instructions are not on my diy pages. In fact I cant add anything new as
                  my webspace is a problem soon to be fixed.

                  The basic tools you will need are a doweling cutter from lee valley
                  http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=52401&cat=1,180,42288

                  a drill that can handle 1/2 inch square stock and some sandpaper and an
                  accuarte drill sizing guage.

                  The dowel cutter works well but I suggest you rig up something to guide to
                  outfeed for the whole length of the arrow, say a 1 inch pvc pipe so that the
                  dowel does not wobble and break as it spins then sandpaper it smooth.

                  Get the 3/8 inch model and have fun, I suggest using something cheap and
                  simple till you get good, like 1/2 by 40 inch poplar square stock.

                  As for the bow, 36 inches is very long for a draw, so the longer bow must
                  have a lot of handshock. I would love to see your work none the less.

                  If you do not wish to make your own arrows I would be happy to make you
                  some. I would have to charge accordingly but I can do it. Get back to me
                  privately if you want and we can see what we can do.

                  www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca is my arrowmaking business so go take a look and see
                  if my styles appeal to you.


                  Have fun.

                  ragi




                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Sheri Rees
                  Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 12:38 PM
                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Long arrows

                  All good ideas Ragi,

                  I have tried sorting through the dowels at the store. 2 main
                  problems - I've never found more than 6-8 straightish ones at a time
                  and I have a 2yr old who quickly gets bored with this game.

                  I haven't tried making my own - not sure I have the correct tools and
                  again that 2 yr old who gets bored. Are the instructions on your DIY
                  pages? Or please send them to me - I'll give it a try. The added
                  weight from footing may be acceptable if that's all I can find. Some
                  of these may become hunting arrows - if he determines that he can hit
                  the target accurately enough.

                  I made the bow to be 58 lb at 36". His big problem with other bows
                  is that by the time he pulls them back to his full draw length they
                  stack horribly and pinch his fingers. And shooting a 80+ pound bow
                  when you're first starting is not exactly conducive to learning. So
                  I made one as tall as him (80 inch) with a modest poundage at his
                  range (equates to something like 32 lb at 28").

                  Thanks
                  Shadhra

                  At 11:25 AM 7/1/2006, you wrote:
                  >Well most suppliers of arrow shafts deal in 32 inches as a max, if you find
                  >someone who cuts their own shafting then they can make you arrows any
                  length
                  >you need. I can also explain how to make your own shafts if you wish, they
                  >can be done by hand and if you can make a longbow of yew then you can make
                  >your own arrows.
                  >
                  >I don't think footing is gonna be a good idea really, the added weight of
                  >those longer shafts will slow down the arrows as is the footing will be
                  >worse.
                  >
                  >You might consider going to a hardware store and collecting 4 foot dowels
                  in
                  >the spine and weight you need, if you don't know how find someone who has a
                  >spine jig and a grain scale to select out the arrows you need.
                  >
                  >What draw weight is the bow at his draw length anyways?
                  >
                  >Ragi



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                • Jeffrey Webb
                  Greetings, I haven t purchased from them in a while, but the folks at Allegheny Mountain Arrow Woods told me at the Trad Rendevous a few years back that they
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 2, 2006
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                    Greetings,
                    I haven't purchased from them in a while, but the folks at Allegheny Mountain Arrow Woods told me at the Trad Rendevous a few years back that they would make up shafts in 36" lengths on special order.(Back when I was making arrows for other people, I had a customer that was 6'6" tall and had a 35" draw)
                    You might give them a call (if they're still in business).
                    -Geoffrei

                    check out the Eastwinds Tribal Drumming web-page at:

                    http://community.webtv.net/jrosswebb1/EASTWINDStribal



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Sheri Rees
                    Sent: Sunday, July 2, 2006 12:37 PM
                    To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Long arrows

                    All good ideas Ragi,

                    I have tried sorting through the dowels at the store. 2 main
                    problems - I've never found more than 6-8 straightish ones at a time
                    and I have a 2yr old who quickly gets bored with this game.

                    I haven't tried making my own - not sure I have the correct tools and
                    again that 2 yr old who gets bored. Are the instructions on your DIY
                    pages? Or please send them to me - I'll give it a try. The added
                    weight from footing may be acceptable if that's all I can find. Some
                    of these may become hunting arrows - if he determines that he can hit
                    the target accurately enough.

                    I made the bow to be 58 lb at 36". His big problem with other bows
                    is that by the time he pulls them back to his full draw length they
                    stack horribly and pinch his fingers. And shooting a 80+ pound bow
                    when you're first starting is not exactly conducive to learning. So
                    I made one as tall as him (80 inch) with a modest poundage at his
                    range (equates to something like 32 lb at 28").

                    Thanks
                    Shadhra

                    At 11:25 AM 7/1/2006, you wrote:
                    >Well most suppliers of arrow shafts deal in 32 inches as a max, if you find
                    >someone who cuts their own shafting then they can make you arrows any length
                    >you need. I can also explain how to make your own shafts if you wish, they
                    >can be done by hand and if you can make a longbow of yew then you can make
                    >your own arrows.
                    >
                    >I don't think footing is gonna be a good idea really, the added weight of
                    >those longer shafts will slow down the arrows as is the footing will be
                    >worse.
                    >
                    >You might consider going to a hardware store and collecting 4 foot dowels in
                    >the spine and weight you need, if you don't know how find someone who has a
                    >spine jig and a grain scale to select out the arrows you need.
                    >
                    >What draw weight is the bow at his draw length anyways?
                    >
                    >Ragi



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                  • Carl West
                    ... In _general_ if the dowel is straight in the hardware store, it likely has continuous grain. Or maybe more accurately, If a dowel isn t straight in the
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 2, 2006
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                      Rj Bachner wrote:

                      > Yeah the dowel route takes time for sure, I would not worrry so much about
                      > straightness as nice straight clean grain.all the rest can be fixed.

                      In _general_ if the dowel is straight in the hardware store, it likely
                      has continuous grain. Or maybe more accurately, If a dowel isn't
                      straight in the store, the chances of it having continuous grain are
                      slim. Straightness a reasonable first test. _Then_ check the grain.


                      > As for the bow, 36 inches is very long for a draw, so the longer bow must
                      > have a lot of handshock.

                      I'm curious, why would a longer bow necessarily result in handshock?
                      If it's well tillered and the arrows are heavy enough for the bows
                      strength and speed, it could be really sweet and smooth.


                      >> I don't think footing is gonna be a good idea really, the added weight of
                      >> those longer shafts will slow down the arrows as is the footing will be
                      >> worse.

                      The man is drawing _eight_ inches more than average, I expect the
                      additional powerstroke will make up for the added weight quite admirably.

                      The shafts could be footed with something light, it doesn't _have_ to be
                      a dense hardwood if you're footing for length instead of durability or
                      balance or style.

                      I've long believed that it more important that the arrows leave the bow
                      consistently than quickly.

                      - Fritz
                    • Godwin fitzGilbert de Strigoil
                      ... much about ... bow must ... weight of ... will be ... admirably. ... to be ... ently than quickly. ... AMEN Fritz. Most folks understand the whole
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 3, 2006
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                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carl West <carl.west@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Rj Bachner wrote:
                        >
                        > > Yeah the dowel route takes time for sure, I would not worrry so
                        much about
                        > > straightness as nice straight clean grain.all the rest can be fixed.
                        >
                        > In _general_ if the dowel is straight in the hardware store, it likely
                        > has continuous grain. Or maybe more accurately, If a dowel isn't
                        > straight in the store, the chances of it having continuous grain are
                        > slim. Straightness a reasonable first test. _Then_ check the grain.
                        >
                        >
                        > > As for the bow, 36 inches is very long for a draw, so the longer
                        bow must
                        > > have a lot of handshock.
                        >
                        > I'm curious, why would a longer bow necessarily result in handshock?
                        > If it's well tillered and the arrows are heavy enough for the bows
                        > strength and speed, it could be really sweet and smooth.
                        >
                        >
                        > >> I don't think footing is gonna be a good idea really, the added
                        weight of
                        > >> those longer shafts will slow down the arrows as is the footing
                        will be
                        > >> worse.
                        >
                        > The man is drawing _eight_ inches more than average, I expect the
                        > additional powerstroke will make up for the added weight quite
                        admirably.
                        >
                        > The shafts could be footed with something light, it doesn't _have_
                        to be
                        > a dense hardwood if you're footing for length instead of durability or
                        > balance or style.
                        >
                        > I've long believed that it more important that the arrows leave the bow
                        > consist
                        ently than quickly.
                        >
                        > - Fritz
                        >

                        AMEN Fritz.

                        Most folks understand the whole spine/bow weight relationship, and for
                        the vast majority of folks that shoot modern centershot bows, that is
                        sufficient.

                        However when shooting bows with varying degrees of archers paradox
                        (longbows, magyars-type, some flatbows- etc...) you must also consider
                        the relationship of limb tip speed-to-physical weight (mass) of the
                        arrow. Plus the fact that spine weight becomes much more critical.

                        Then throw in FOC balance point, and also what you are *really*
                        shooting as a spine weight for your arrow. I guarantee that what you
                        spined your arrow at 'before' you started building it, is not what you
                        are actually shooting. Doesn't mean that the spine weight
                        'pre-assembly' is wrong.

                        Of course don't forget the other thing that modifies the spine weight
                        of the arrow: point weight. Heavier points virtually decrease the
                        spine weight, lighter ones virtually increase.

                        Handshock can come from different areas, the big two IMHO:
                        1. Mismatch on arrow mass and limb tip speed.
                        2. Bow limbs mismatched in final tiller.

                        ...ah... I'll stop rambling now.

                        Godwin
                      • Rj Bachner
                        Yep your right about the straightness of grain but what I have found is that the way dowels are stored contributes to a lack of initial straightness. I have
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 3, 2006
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                          Yep your right about the straightness of grain but what I have found is that
                          the way dowels are stored contributes to a lack of initial straightness. I
                          have found many dowels that were good but bent due to gravity and poor
                          storage. A little heat a little bend and voila you have a nice straight
                          shaft. Ok they need to be trained straight a few times to make up for the
                          abuse they suffered as mere dowels but good arrows they remain. This is why
                          I say straightness of grain should be a primary concern for selecting dowels
                          for arrows. Once you are happy with the grain then you can start to measure
                          for spine and weight etc. Selecting for straightness of the dowel first may
                          cost you many dowels that would work but for a little effort.

                          The reason I said a long bow might suffer from handshock is that a long bow
                          has long limbs and those long limbs have a lot of mass to swing forward when
                          released and if not tillered properly they will have too much mass in the
                          outer limbs and so handshock.

                          Now I have started making long flat bows that act like a longbow with a more
                          arc of the ellipse bend with short flatbow length working limbs and a long
                          static handle. This gives me speed, low string angle and the stability of a
                          longbow without the effect of long working limbs. When I made flat bows of
                          72 inches with a short handle I found the bow to be a lot more shocky and I
                          was not happy with the performance.

                          Now we all know a longer bow inherently stores more energy than a short bow
                          all things considered but you pay for it with decreased efficiency in power
                          delivery.

                          Either I am not very good at tillering long bows or long working limbs are a
                          little more shocky and require heavy arrows to tame the bow and absorb all
                          that energy. I assumed the latter is more likely though my skill may be
                          wanting as well. ;) Your mileage may vary but that's what I have learned

                          Ragi

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of Carl West
                          Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 12:19 AM
                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Long arrows

                          Rj Bachner wrote:

                          > Yeah the dowel route takes time for sure, I would not worrry so much about
                          > straightness as nice straight clean grain.all the rest can be fixed.

                          In _general_ if the dowel is straight in the hardware store, it likely
                          has continuous grain. Or maybe more accurately, If a dowel isn't
                          straight in the store, the chances of it having continuous grain are
                          slim. Straightness a reasonable first test. _Then_ check the grain.


                          > As for the bow, 36 inches is very long for a draw, so the longer bow must
                          > have a lot of handshock.

                          I'm curious, why would a longer bow necessarily result in handshock?
                          If it's well tillered and the arrows are heavy enough for the bows
                          strength and speed, it could be really sweet and smooth.


                          >> I don't think footing is gonna be a good idea really, the added weight of
                          >> those longer shafts will slow down the arrows as is the footing will be
                          >> worse.

                          The man is drawing _eight_ inches more than average, I expect the
                          additional powerstroke will make up for the added weight quite admirably.

                          The shafts could be footed with something light, it doesn't _have_ to be
                          a dense hardwood if you're footing for length instead of durability or
                          balance or style.

                          I've long believed that it more important that the arrows leave the bow
                          consistently than quickly.

                          - Fritz



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                        • jotl@ridgecrest.ca.us
                          ... Which is why you usually give it your best shot, then tune the arrow to the bow by shooting them and observing the results. It certainly helps to have an
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jul 3, 2006
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                            At 3:29 PM 7/3/06 +0000, Godwin fitzGilbert de Strigoil wrote:

                            >However when shooting bows with varying degrees of archers paradox
                            >(longbows, magyars-type, some flatbows- etc...) you must also consider
                            >the relationship of limb tip speed-to-physical weight (mass) of the
                            >arrow. Plus the fact that spine weight becomes much more critical.
                            >
                            >Then throw in FOC balance point, and also what you are *really*
                            >shooting as a spine weight for your arrow. I guarantee that what you
                            >spined your arrow at 'before' you started building it, is not what you
                            >are actually shooting. Doesn't mean that the spine weight
                            >'pre-assembly' is wrong.
                            >
                            >Of course don't forget the other thing that modifies the spine weight
                            >of the arrow: point weight. Heavier points virtually decrease the
                            >spine weight, lighter ones virtually increase.
                            >
                            >Handshock can come from different areas, the big two IMHO:
                            >1. Mismatch on arrow mass and limb tip speed.
                            >2. Bow limbs mismatched in final tiller.

                            Which is why you usually give it your best shot, then tune the arrow to the
                            bow by shooting them and observing the results. It certainly helps to have
                            an experienced archer stand behind and observe.

                            James
                            jotl@...
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