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Re: [SCA-Archery] Response to Sir Jon's post - longish

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  • Michael vanBergen
    Per your 6th paragraph, you say you dont see much of a change toward period archery? Such a comment is behind the times. In response, I remind you that you
    Message 1 of 1 , May 3, 2000
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      Per your 6th paragraph, you say you dont see much of a change toward
      period archery? Such a comment is behind the times. In response, I
      remind you that you saw one of a whole series of self bows now and soon
      to be in hands of many of the archers of Calontir, starting with the
      Vatvia and Fyren-Ar areas. You were at my home and saw the first of these
      bows. The bowyer is in the process of doing many such bows now that his
      work has been seen and used. Besides the above bowyer, , one of our own,
      the marshal Jean-Paul from La Grande tente is a known bowyer having made
      somewhere near 40 selfbows. All of his are still out in action.

      Are we that locked down to past ideas as you claim later in this message?
      I disagree totally, as the start mentioned above supports. While most
      try a recurve first, one of our own went staight to the longbow and first
      efforts like winning a grinder at Celeidgh and doing fine for his first
      effort in the 25 arrow shoot do well as a sign of the possible future for
      Owen as a Calontir archer.

      I, too, have lead by example. For several years I have done the middle
      kingdoms winter challenge open and longbow classifications , followed by
      our CAP( both classifications again) and interkingdom ikacs of several
      versions inclusive of the period division, and whatever shoots appear at
      events. 2 years ago, I lead Vatavia into having more participants in
      the middle kingdoms winter challenge than ANY other barony or shire in
      the known world for that year. .The records on these points are clear
      for those who need to review them. Only the crossbow ikac is yet untried
      by me and you personally know that I am building a crossbow. I must
      regret that this year may not duplicate past efforts.


      Michael vanBergen

      On Tue, 02 May 2000 12:52:04 -0500 "Chris Nogy" <cnogy@...>
      writes:
      > Sir Jon
      >
      > I read your post and recognized the points as those you have made
      > before, in fact, since the inception of the Period division, and
      > even before.
      >
      > I taught my first bowmaking class at the Coronation of Lorell and
      > Zenobia in Calontir in late 1988.
      >
      > At that time, I remember being counselled by several individuals who
      > had seen the migration in fighting from sport gear to much more
      > period gear and techniques, that if I were to lead by example,
      > people would follow.
      >
      > I remember talking to an individual in our Kingdom who was well
      > known for his attempts at being a very period archer, but who had
      > even then left the range to pursue other activities. He was
      > hesitant to tell me why, but I asked some of his closest companions,
      > and they explained that they were present when he was essentially
      > 'laughed off the field' because the reliance on scores for standard
      > shoots like the IKAC was the focus of our archery, and he couldn't
      > keep up.
      >
      > Well, I have tried to lead by example. Classes at our events, for
      > our Royal University (tons of classes), even visiting neighboring
      > kingdoms and teaching and promoting.
      >
      > Here we are in the start of AS 35, and I have not seen a very
      > significant increase in period archery. Sure, Calontir is almost
      > exclusively shooting period when it comes to Crossbow, but we were
      > not a crossbow shooting kingdom to start with, so it was easy to
      > give away or sell cheap a dozen or two period crossbows and then the
      > trend was born, not modified. But the basic scene at lines from
      > Pennsic to Estrella and points between seems to have remained
      > static.
      >
      > What I do see is that the ideals established 2 decades or more ago
      > (the importance of scores over period practice, for one) have held
      > on tight, and the system is not helping those of us who work hard at
      > promotion of period archery.
      >
      > I remember several years ago establishing a week-long "best period
      > archer" competition at Lilies war. One gentle, Lochlan by name,
      > came and participated (well I might add). Each evening, he would
      > come and talk to me, and explain that he felt a little like a circus
      > freak out there, being regarded with curiosity by the other archers,
      > but not feeling the respect of comaraderie shown to those who were
      > shooting with the 'normal' modern kit and scoring really well. I
      > offered as a prize a hand-forged archer's short sword, scabbard and
      > baldric. When the time came to award the prize, overheard from a
      > couple of the Kingdom's top scoring archers was grumbling, and a
      > loud statement "Well, I guess we can allow 5 mintues for Kaz's
      > fashion show."
      >
      > Lochlan stopped shooting after that, and we haven't seen him on the
      > line since (even though he won the prize). I kept in touch for a
      > while, but his disappointment was genuine and I couldn't persuade
      > him to come back.
      >
      > I have seen the attitude shown just in the past few days on this
      > list, the "anti-period" attitude ("don't force me to become even one
      > bit more period, I'm only here to have fun and if you make me play
      > your game I'll just take my toys and go home") actually personified
      > on the line more than once. People so vehemently holding on to the
      > status quo that they become anti-social and even downright mean to
      > those who are trying to improve the atmosphere, even if it is only
      > in their own practices.
      >
      > I couldn't even chastise them very much, because their gear and
      > behavior on the line actually fit within the broad and open
      > guidelines we set as acceptable. And telling them not to be mean,
      > and to give up the attitude, didn't work there any better than it
      > does anywhere else.
      >
      > So I suggest something. If it can be agreed that the ideal goal of
      > SCA archery is to shoot period gear in a period manner and learn
      > about period methods and techniques, then perhaps the system can
      > modify to assist.
      >
      > Currently, the period division is considered a specialty division,
      > and much of the focus of archery in the SCA is placed on the open
      > division. Those who participate in the period shoots available are
      > considered 'special interest', not specifically considered as being
      > 'on the ideal path'. There is little motivation within the archery
      > culture to convince folks to shoot in these specialty activities,
      > especially since it does require some investment. The motivation is
      > almost exclusively internal.
      >
      > If however, the general standards were set for period shooting, and
      > the specialty shooting activities were actually the 'open' class
      > shoots, then there would be a motivation, as the defined goal would
      > change somewhat. Also, the public response to those making effort
      > to improve would be different, because suddenly these people would
      > have their activities protected specifically by charter.
      >
      > Sure, in the beginning, there would be more shooters in the
      > specialty (open) class than in the general (period) class, but with
      > the assistance of very period archers, and the motivation of a
      > system that asked people to become more peiiod, there might be
      > enough momentum to start to swing the tide.
      >
      > Again, the basic premise points of your post (stated by others, but
      > basically the same points) were motivational in AS 20, still hopeful
      > in AS 25, losing some of their luster in AS 30, and now in AS 35,
      > with the same knee-jerk responses as always from archers every time
      > someone tries to formalize more period goals, they are starting to
      > take on the appearances of the ideal adventures and chivlaric ideals
      > of a current set of Don Quixotes, it seems that the sport is
      > entrenching itself deeper and deeper in a mindset where the grand
      > adventure and ideal just seem like something from the past or
      > something for someone else to do.
      >
      > I don't have any more answers, but I shall go on tilting at
      > windmills...
      >
      > Don Kazote, period archer of LaMancha
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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