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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Archery Proposal

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  • James Koch
    ... I have to agree here 100%. I had an old recurve I bought new in 1970 and shot until it finally broke. I replaced it with a used longbow I bought from a
    Message 1 of 59 , Apr 2, 2006
      >
      >In the end, it comes down to this:
      >*) Go out there and shoot what equipment you would like to shoot, and
      >enjoy doing that. If you are upset that you aren't winning, then (A)
      >You aren't having fun, (B) Obviously winning is more important to you
      >than the current bow that you are shooting. Switch to a bow that you
      >'think' has a better advantage, since that is what is important to
      >you.

      I have to agree here 100%. I had an old recurve I bought new in 1970 and
      shot until it finally broke. I replaced it with a used longbow I bought
      from a guy who was switching to a recurve since his royal round scores had
      maxed out. I wanted to shoot a longbow and he wanted higher royal round
      scores.


      >*) Designers of shoots should include long range, short range, timed,
      >untimed, known distance, unknown distance, wierd position, moving, one
      >shot, multiple shots, killzones, etc. A mix of all of those. If
      >mixed well, then it creates an even (enough) playing field between all
      >the different bow choices. Yes, every competition will end up
      >favoring one type or another, but such is life.

      This is a great recommendation since it also challenges the people who
      shoot royal rounds several times per week. Another thing that you can do
      is offer a first, second, and third place prize.


      >Also for reference, do take a look at what people have noted about the
      >'highest scoring archers'.
      >
      >In the Winter Challenge, the highest are Recurve shooters. In the
      >Royal Rounds, the HIGHEST is a Recurve, and if you look in most
      >Kingdoms the distrabution of crossbows/handbows is around 50/50 in the
      >top spots.

      This is true, but you have to admit that there are still more people
      shooting hand bows than crossbows. So you really have to weigh the results
      a bit.


      >As another point of interest, Look at Atlantia's Kingdom Archery
      >Tourney. It's happened for 10 years running now, and always includes
      >a large mix of targets, as described above. The 'finals' are a set a
      >head-to-head competitions ... single elimination ... in a shoot that
      >involves both accuracy and speed. (Who is first to hit a number of
      >scattered targets).
      >
      >Currently the record stands as 7 handbow winners, and 3 crossbow
      >winners. Including one gentle who has won it both with handbow and
      >crossbow.
      >
      >Siegfried
      Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
    • John edgerton
      Actually a more accurate term would be timed ends rather than speed ends. In the RR or IKAC the intent is to get as high a score as possible in the time
      Message 59 of 59 , Apr 3, 2006
        Actually a more accurate term would be timed ends rather than speed
        ends. In the RR or IKAC the intent is to get as high a score as
        possible in the time given, rather than just getting off as many arrows
        as possible. It is better to shoot four and get twenty points, than to
        shoot nine and get ten points.

        Yes, when shooting into a mass of tightly packed warriors, where most
        any arrow will hit someone, plain speed is important. But, in the
        instance of less tightly packed targets it is a case of accuracy and
        rapid rate of release. When you are trying not to hit a shield or one
        of your own men while attempting to get an arrow or bolt into a visor
        slot, accuracy is important. And then getting off an other shot as
        fast as possible to take out an other opponent, before they kill you or
        one of your friends is reason to shoot rapidly and accurately. Aside
        from sieges, there were countless small scale engagements, aside from
        major battles where a rapid and accurate rate of shooting was
        paramount. In the hunt, when beaters are driving herds of deer toward
        you, killing as many deer as possible for the larder is also important.

        As to period speed ends. Since there is little documentation of just
        how period competitions or training were done, it is difficult to
        positivity state that they were either used or not used. However, I
        do have a copy of a period illustration of a german crossbow
        competition showing an hour glass in the foreground. If it was using
        for timing the shooting or to indicate when to break for lunch, it is
        impossible to say.

        Jon

        On Monday, April 3, 2006, at 06:39 AM, J. Hughes wrote:

        >
        >
        > John edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote: I would like to comment
        > regarding the RR and IKAC. The speed ends were
        > not tacked on later. They were there from the beginning. I wanted the
        > competitions to also test the ability to shoot rapidly and accurately
        > as would have been needed in combat or in the hunt. And on the RR,
        > when I made up the rules for it, I gave little thought to crossbows.
        >
        > Jon
        >
        > Is there any evidence of the use of speed rounds in a period archery
        > competition or a schutzenfest? While rate of fire is useful when the
        > archer is in a defensive position receiving a mounted charge or in an
        > archery counter archery role, it is not at all appropriate for the
        > sort of warfare in most found in period: siege warfare, when only in a
        > storming do you have the target rich environment that rewards speed of
        > discharge.
        >
        > Charles O'Connor
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