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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Archery Proposal

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  • James W. Pratt, Jr.
    You have made some astute obsurvations. All are true. And like all contests the more participants the more skill and better equipment it takes to win.
    Message 1 of 59 , Apr 2, 2006
      <snip>You have made some astute obsurvations. All are true. And like all
      contests the more participants the more skill and better equipment it takes
      to win. That is where we are at. At small events 10 archers are a big
      crowd and if only one has a crossbow you can have a small problem. If it is
      Sigfried and his crossbow you have a bigger problem. All the archers will
      want to see him shoot his crossbow but may not want to see him take away
      day's the prize. It would be less than honorable for Sigfied NOT to shoot
      his best(plus I am sure every archer would want to see how good he really
      is). The problem has many answeres but if you can make the answeres fun for
      all you have the solution.

      At Pennsic with 50 longbow, 100 recurve, and 25 crossbow shooters you can
      have a very high skill contest for each catagory and no one complains about
      winning or loosing. The numbers level the playing field, and only the most
      skilled with the best equipment make it to the top.

      James Cunningham
      Did you notice I did not give a solution.

      > This leads to my third notion, a response to the
      > poster quoted above. The original poster suggested
      > seperate
      > handbow and crossbow prizes, the response suggested
      > that prizes be even more specific, for various types
      > of
      > handbow. This has two problems: First, if I am the
      > only
      > longbowman who shoots, I win my category by default;
      > second, Ludicrous the Bowman shows up, enters the
      > crossbow and recurve divisions and cleans up both.
      > The problem with SCA archery competitions is that they
      > pit Sunday duffers like me against club pros and PGA
      > tour players on equal footing. I believe that paying
      > more attention to skill level and less to equipment
      > will give a far truer picture of individual archer's
      > ability and a more equitable distribution of prizes at
      > competitions.
      >
      > Barak Raz
      > (Emil M Stecher)
      > (gwrgi at yahoo dot com)
    • John edgerton
      Actually a more accurate term would be timed ends rather than speed ends. In the RR or IKAC the intent is to get as high a score as possible in the time
      Message 59 of 59 , Apr 3, 2006
        Actually a more accurate term would be timed ends rather than speed
        ends. In the RR or IKAC the intent is to get as high a score as
        possible in the time given, rather than just getting off as many arrows
        as possible. It is better to shoot four and get twenty points, than to
        shoot nine and get ten points.

        Yes, when shooting into a mass of tightly packed warriors, where most
        any arrow will hit someone, plain speed is important. But, in the
        instance of less tightly packed targets it is a case of accuracy and
        rapid rate of release. When you are trying not to hit a shield or one
        of your own men while attempting to get an arrow or bolt into a visor
        slot, accuracy is important. And then getting off an other shot as
        fast as possible to take out an other opponent, before they kill you or
        one of your friends is reason to shoot rapidly and accurately. Aside
        from sieges, there were countless small scale engagements, aside from
        major battles where a rapid and accurate rate of shooting was
        paramount. In the hunt, when beaters are driving herds of deer toward
        you, killing as many deer as possible for the larder is also important.

        As to period speed ends. Since there is little documentation of just
        how period competitions or training were done, it is difficult to
        positivity state that they were either used or not used. However, I
        do have a copy of a period illustration of a german crossbow
        competition showing an hour glass in the foreground. If it was using
        for timing the shooting or to indicate when to break for lunch, it is
        impossible to say.

        Jon

        On Monday, April 3, 2006, at 06:39 AM, J. Hughes wrote:

        >
        >
        > John edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote: I would like to comment
        > regarding the RR and IKAC. The speed ends were
        > not tacked on later. They were there from the beginning. I wanted the
        > competitions to also test the ability to shoot rapidly and accurately
        > as would have been needed in combat or in the hunt. And on the RR,
        > when I made up the rules for it, I gave little thought to crossbows.
        >
        > Jon
        >
        > Is there any evidence of the use of speed rounds in a period archery
        > competition or a schutzenfest? While rate of fire is useful when the
        > archer is in a defensive position receiving a mounted charge or in an
        > archery counter archery role, it is not at all appropriate for the
        > sort of warfare in most found in period: siege warfare, when only in a
        > storming do you have the target rich environment that rewards speed of
        > discharge.
        >
        > Charles O'Connor
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