Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Archery Proposal

Expand Messages
  • Carolus von Eulenhorst
    It is true that this has been expressed as a balancing factor. It is also true that it is often expressed in a manner which can easily lead someone to believe
    Message 1 of 59 , Apr 1 5:04 PM
      It is true that this has been expressed as a balancing factor. It is
      also true that it is often expressed in a manner which can easily
      lead someone to believe that this is the reason they were
      introduced. Unless historical perspective is presented, the true
      nature of an event, activity, or attribute can easily be distorted.

      Take, for instance, the term "Dark Ages". Many believe that this
      term refers to the lack of culture and learning of the
      post-Roman/pre-Medieval era (what often has been called the Viking
      age or the Migration era). This term was coined by Victorian
      scholars not for that reason but rather because of the lack of
      documentation and information known about the period. As more and
      more knowledge was obtained and documents unearthed, that era became
      smaller and smaller until it is virtually non-existent today (hence
      the alternative terms I listed above).

      I post this for historical reference only, not criticism.

      Carolus

      At 04:04 PM 4/1/2006, you wrote:

      >Carolus,
      > >
      >I am not claiming that speed rounds were introduced due to the presence of
      >crossbows, only that they have for years been stated to be a means of
      >balancing the differences between hand bows and crossbows. A perfect
      >example of this is Nigel's earlier message. I remember shooting the
      >advancing man at Pennsic One which is a variety of a timed shoot and that
      >was well before I ever saw a crossbow at an SCA event. The first crossbow
      >to show up at Pennsic, as far as I can remember, was a Whamo at Pennsic three.
      > >
      >Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)


      --
      No virus found in this outgoing message.
      Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
      Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date: 3/31/2006
    • John edgerton
      Actually a more accurate term would be timed ends rather than speed ends. In the RR or IKAC the intent is to get as high a score as possible in the time
      Message 59 of 59 , Apr 3 10:35 AM
        Actually a more accurate term would be timed ends rather than speed
        ends. In the RR or IKAC the intent is to get as high a score as
        possible in the time given, rather than just getting off as many arrows
        as possible. It is better to shoot four and get twenty points, than to
        shoot nine and get ten points.

        Yes, when shooting into a mass of tightly packed warriors, where most
        any arrow will hit someone, plain speed is important. But, in the
        instance of less tightly packed targets it is a case of accuracy and
        rapid rate of release. When you are trying not to hit a shield or one
        of your own men while attempting to get an arrow or bolt into a visor
        slot, accuracy is important. And then getting off an other shot as
        fast as possible to take out an other opponent, before they kill you or
        one of your friends is reason to shoot rapidly and accurately. Aside
        from sieges, there were countless small scale engagements, aside from
        major battles where a rapid and accurate rate of shooting was
        paramount. In the hunt, when beaters are driving herds of deer toward
        you, killing as many deer as possible for the larder is also important.

        As to period speed ends. Since there is little documentation of just
        how period competitions or training were done, it is difficult to
        positivity state that they were either used or not used. However, I
        do have a copy of a period illustration of a german crossbow
        competition showing an hour glass in the foreground. If it was using
        for timing the shooting or to indicate when to break for lunch, it is
        impossible to say.

        Jon

        On Monday, April 3, 2006, at 06:39 AM, J. Hughes wrote:

        >
        >
        > John edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote: I would like to comment
        > regarding the RR and IKAC. The speed ends were
        > not tacked on later. They were there from the beginning. I wanted the
        > competitions to also test the ability to shoot rapidly and accurately
        > as would have been needed in combat or in the hunt. And on the RR,
        > when I made up the rules for it, I gave little thought to crossbows.
        >
        > Jon
        >
        > Is there any evidence of the use of speed rounds in a period archery
        > competition or a schutzenfest? While rate of fire is useful when the
        > archer is in a defensive position receiving a mounted charge or in an
        > archery counter archery role, it is not at all appropriate for the
        > sort of warfare in most found in period: siege warfare, when only in a
        > storming do you have the target rich environment that rewards speed of
        > discharge.
        >
        > Charles O'Connor
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.