- Greetings Crossbows do tend to cluster toward the high end of scores in contests featuring both X-bows and handbows. This is due to the availability of a moreMessage 1 of 59 , Apr 1, 2006View SourceGreetings
Crossbows do tend to cluster toward the high end of scores in contests featuring both X-bows and handbows. This is due to the availability of a more stable and consistent aim-window, and also due somewhat to a flatter trajectory based on higher poundage.
But... skill is the overriding factor in any contest, regardless of tackle type. Skill, and also factors at which handbows have the advantage over crossbows. While crossbows are more stable platforms, and more powerful bows, they are much, much slower than handbows. So, anyone designing a course allowing both types need only put in a pinpoint accuracy round, which will favour X-bows, and a speed round, which will favour handbows, in order to achieve a balanced result.
As an example of the comparison between the two, I need look no further than the Winter Challenge postal shoot which I have administered for a number of years now. As I say above, X-bows tend to cluster high in scores (which is why I provide in-class divisions, so shooters can compare their scores with those using the same type of equipage). But the highest scores of all have consistently been achieved by recurves. Some years ago the record was a startling 256. Then early this year it became a dizzying 293. Now, the same guy who got that has handed in a numbing 306. I never thought I'd see the day when 300 would be surpassed, but it now has (mind you, this is from a guy whose Royal Round average - average, please note, not all-time high - is in the low 150's). He got this 306 by loosing 15 and 16 arrows respectively in the two clocked rounds (30 second timed). I seriously doubt that any crossbowman could possibly get that many bolts off in that amount of time. All three of t!
hese records were gained using recurves in the high 30's for poundage.
> As I am new to the world of target archery and GW was basically my--
> first event in which I was able to shoot with other archers, both
> bow and crossbow, I found it interesting that many of the "prize
> shoots" were won by crossbowmen. Given the conversation of
> using "modern equipment in a traditional shoot one has to ask
> themselves where do we draw the line of technology in a traditiion
> Now I will admit the long bow I purchased was not a "stick bow"
> but as I am learning one of the reflex/deflex type. Still in the
> traditional sense I used instinctive aiming. Only the point of the
> arrow and the target for finding the point of release. It just
> seemed to me, the newbee, that the crossbowman had the upper hand in
> the shoots. Perigrine did have one shoot in which there were no
> crossbows allowed and one for the crossbow only.
> I guess what I am asking is this, is there a advantage in shoots
> in which the crossbow is allowed verses the stick/recurve?? One
> thing I did notice was the the crossbowman was able to take more
> time in aiming, no string to hold back thus the arm does not get
> tired over the long term such as in a RR. This alone to the newbee
> is a huge advantage.
> Again this is from a newbees eyes and in the long term my vision
> may change. Thank you for the discussion and for exchanging your
> knowledge of this fine art. Happy shooting!
Three things never heard from the mouth of a Celt:
"Do these colors match?"
"Is this too much jewelry?"
"Is that my drink?"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- Actually a more accurate term would be timed ends rather than speed ends. In the RR or IKAC the intent is to get as high a score as possible in the timeMessage 59 of 59 , Apr 3, 2006View SourceActually a more accurate term would be timed ends rather than speed
ends. In the RR or IKAC the intent is to get as high a score as
possible in the time given, rather than just getting off as many arrows
as possible. It is better to shoot four and get twenty points, than to
shoot nine and get ten points.
Yes, when shooting into a mass of tightly packed warriors, where most
any arrow will hit someone, plain speed is important. But, in the
instance of less tightly packed targets it is a case of accuracy and
rapid rate of release. When you are trying not to hit a shield or one
of your own men while attempting to get an arrow or bolt into a visor
slot, accuracy is important. And then getting off an other shot as
fast as possible to take out an other opponent, before they kill you or
one of your friends is reason to shoot rapidly and accurately. Aside
from sieges, there were countless small scale engagements, aside from
major battles where a rapid and accurate rate of shooting was
paramount. In the hunt, when beaters are driving herds of deer toward
you, killing as many deer as possible for the larder is also important.
As to period speed ends. Since there is little documentation of just
how period competitions or training were done, it is difficult to
positivity state that they were either used or not used. However, I
do have a copy of a period illustration of a german crossbow
competition showing an hour glass in the foreground. If it was using
for timing the shooting or to indicate when to break for lunch, it is
impossible to say.
On Monday, April 3, 2006, at 06:39 AM, J. Hughes wrote:
> John edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote: I would like to comment
> regarding the RR and IKAC. The speed ends were
> not tacked on later. They were there from the beginning. I wanted the
> competitions to also test the ability to shoot rapidly and accurately
> as would have been needed in combat or in the hunt. And on the RR,
> when I made up the rules for it, I gave little thought to crossbows.
> Is there any evidence of the use of speed rounds in a period archery
> competition or a schutzenfest? While rate of fire is useful when the
> archer is in a defensive position receiving a mounted charge or in an
> archery counter archery role, it is not at all appropriate for the
> sort of warfare in most found in period: siege warfare, when only in a
> storming do you have the target rich environment that rewards speed of
> Charles O'Connor