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Re: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows

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  • Russ Sheldon
    Actually the ship is not shot at by arrows. The boat is hand crafted and mementos of your lost ones are put in the boat and it is set afire as it sails out
    Message 1 of 30 , Feb 28, 2006
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      Actually the ship is not shot at by arrows. The boat is hand crafted and
      mementos of your lost ones are put in the boat and it is set afire as it
      sails out into the lake by candles strategically placed in it hold. Songs
      are sung and tales are told while it burns. Its a very moving ceremony.
      Great care is also made to recover the remains of the boat after it burns to
      the waterline. It was a tradition I believe started from Ealdormere to
      remember friends within the SCA who pasted on. King Osis's loss I believe
      started the tradition.

      Dafydd ap Sion

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Cian of Storvik" <firespiter@...>
      To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:24 PM
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows


      > I'm not a big fan of "playing with fire" especially at public
      > gatherings.
      > At Pennsic I hear they build a balsa-wood viking burial ship which
      > fire arrows are shot at, but very special precautions are made
      > including shooting at the boat on water.
      > I believe that period fire arrows probably had a gummy substance
      > like pitch that they could smear on an arrow, or on a piece of cloth
      > and wrap about the head. Natural tar can sometimes burn and is
      > suposedly difficult to put out even in a wind, but quite noxcious i
      > would assume (like a tire fire).
      > A company in the UK called TODS STUFF sells a reproduction of a
      > german 15th century incendiary recipe. But I believe you might have
      > problems importing combustibles into the US without proper customs
      > forms being applied for.
      > I won't speculate on the danger involved or SCA rules might be
      > broken by setting arrows on fire, but I will agree that it seems a
      > bit wasteful to spend ~$3.50 on a well made arrow just so you can
      > set it on fire.
      >
      > -Cian
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Lord Cain Saethydd
      I have set arrows ablaze during 2 wedding cerimonies. I used burlap and oil. Both arrows burned for some time, and were dificult to put out. But, both arrows
      Message 2 of 30 , Mar 1, 2006
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        I have set arrows ablaze during 2 wedding cerimonies. I used burlap
        and oil. Both arrows burned for some time, and were dificult to put
        out. But, both arrows were recovered, and useable, oddly enough. I
        think it may have to do with how you wrap and apply the flammable
        substance.

        Strange how burning arrows can raise the bride-price during a
        Pirate wedding =).

        Cain

        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Cian of Storvik"
        <firespiter@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm not a big fan of "playing with fire" especially at public
        > gatherings.
        > At Pennsic I hear they build a balsa-wood viking burial ship which
        > fire arrows are shot at, but very special precautions are made
        > including shooting at the boat on water.
        > I believe that period fire arrows probably had a gummy substance
        > like pitch that they could smear on an arrow, or on a piece of
        cloth
        > and wrap about the head. Natural tar can sometimes burn and is
        > suposedly difficult to put out even in a wind, but quite noxcious
        i
        > would assume (like a tire fire).
        > A company in the UK called TODS STUFF sells a reproduction of a
        > german 15th century incendiary recipe. But I believe you might
        have
        > problems importing combustibles into the US without proper customs
        > forms being applied for.
        > I won't speculate on the danger involved or SCA rules might be
        > broken by setting arrows on fire, but I will agree that it seems a
        > bit wasteful to spend ~$3.50 on a well made arrow just so you can
        > set it on fire.
        >
        > -Cian
        >
      • Siegfried
        I have been lead to understand that cotton wrapping, and olive oil, works fairly well and is of course nice to mr. Environment. Also somewhat close to what
        Message 3 of 30 , Mar 2, 2006
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          I have been lead to understand that cotton wrapping, and olive oil, works
          fairly well and is of course nice to mr. Environment. Also somewhat close
          to what was used in period.

          On 2/28/06, Cian of Storvik <firespiter@...> wrote:
          >
          > I believe that period fire arrows probably had a gummy substance
          > like pitch that they could smear on an arrow, or on a piece of cloth
          > and wrap about the head. Natural tar can sometimes burn and is
          > suposedly difficult to put out even in a wind, but quite noxcious i
          > would assume (like a tire fire).




          --
          _________________________________________________________________________
          THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
          Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
          Kingdom of Atlantia - Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
          http://eliw.com/ - http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • locm@osprey.net
          Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows that will stay lit when you shoot them? Thanks. Leif of Crescent Moon
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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            Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows that will stay
            lit when you shoot them?

            Thanks.

            Leif of Crescent Moon
          • Richard Yeager
            Man, there goes the neighborhood...... Cuan mac Niall locm@osprey.net wrote: Does anyone out there have any information on making fire
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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              Man, there goes the neighborhood......

              Cuan mac Niall

              "locm@..." <locm@...> wrote:
              Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows that will stay
              lit when you shoot them?

              Thanks.

              Leif of Crescent Moon





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            • Jessica E Baas
              Depends on if you re looking for real fire or not. At this past Great Western War, we had the opportunity to do a night time clout shoot. Since we couldn t
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                Depends on if you're looking for real fire or not. At this past Great Western War, we had the opportunity to do a night time clout shoot. Since we couldn't have open flame, we use mini glo-sticks. They're a bit over an inch long, thin, and can be taped to existing arrows. We used clear packing tape and the green/yellow mini's. It worked really well and you could see them easily both in the air and on the ground (with the stick positioned just front of center). They do sell red/purple mini's, but we found them more difficult to see when we were testing. They weren't bad in the pitch dark though. No arrows wasted or lost, no likelihood of being burned, but fun none the less!

                Christina

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: "locm@..." <locm@...>
                To: sca-archery@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:30:25 AM
                Subject: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows















                Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows that will stay

                lit when you shoot them?



                Thanks.



                Leif of Crescent Moon














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              • atruemark@aol.com
                Greetings. I built and used fire arrows for a memorial service for Master Julian Farnsworth here in AnTir. The basic design was provided by a group in
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                  Greetings. I built and used fire arrows for a memorial service for Master
                  Julian Farnsworth here in AnTir. The basic design was provided by a group in
                  Canada who use them every year at an event. In both instances they are being
                  shot over water, so it minimizes fire hazard.

                  I used burlap sacking, which I cut into 3/4" wide strips, about 18" long.
                  These were wound around the head of the wooden arrow shaft to create a bulbous
                  head, with the tail of the burlap being at the bottom of the bulbous head
                  and secured to the shaft by thin, flexible wire.

                  About an hour and a half before they were to be shot the arrows were placed
                  head down into containers of gasoline. After soaking for about a half hour
                  they were removed and left to dry. This is important because the burlap needs
                  to absorb the gasoline all the way through, but not be so wet that when held
                  up to be fired that liquid drips or runs back along the shaft.

                  Don't hesitate to experiment with the dip vs dry times. Ours actually had
                  more drip than was comfortable, mainly because we had a fairly strong wind
                  blowing directly into our faces. But it was spectacular to see...up to twelve
                  archers at a time standing in a line, in the dark, loosing fire arrows out
                  over the Puget Sound in remembrance of one of AnTir's premier archers...

                  Regards,

                  Master Andras



                  ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • logantheboweyder
                  Master Leif, www.visionrealization.com/Resources/Resource_Details/Archery.pdf I ve not tried it, and suspect my lady would rather I not, so I cannot vouch for
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                    Master Leif,

                    www.visionrealization.com/Resources/Resource_Details/Archery.pdf

                    I've not tried it, and suspect my lady would rather I not, so I
                    cannot vouch for how well it works.

                    Logan
                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "locm@..." <locm@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows
                    that will stay
                    > lit when you shoot them?
                    >
                    > Thanks.
                    >
                    > Leif of Crescent Moon
                    >
                  • caleb@buffnet.net
                    ... When The Kevin Costner Robin Hood movie, Prince of Accents came out, the owner of a local archery shop was asked to demostrate flaming arrows for the
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                      >
                      > Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows that
                      > will stay lit when you shoot them?
                      >
                      > Thanks.
                      >
                      > Leif of Crescent Moon
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      When The Kevin Costner Robin Hood movie, "Prince of Accents" came out, the
                      owner of a local archery shop was asked to demostrate flaming arrows for
                      the local drive-in. He went through everything he could think of and asked
                      a bunch of us for suggestions. The "best" was a rag wrapped around the
                      arrow head and covered in roofing tar. He learned that the arrow has to be
                      either very long, to keep the flames away from his hand and bow, or he had
                      to shoot at half draw. The flames on the tar were blown out half of the
                      time anyway and the rag and tar made the arrow lopsided. He eventually
                      used a sparkler taped to the arrow and ballons filled with naptha.


                      Caleb Reynolds
                    • Keith Crawley
                      In Ealdormere we have been doing night shoots with glow sticks for many years courtesy of Lord Tosh. we use the longer bracelet sized sticks and make targets
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                        In Ealdormere we have been doing night shoots with glow sticks for many years courtesy of Lord Tosh. we use the longer bracelet sized sticks and make targets and all sorts out of the glow sticks as well.

                        For real fire you will first of all want to make sure you have arrows that are wayyyyy too long for normal shooting. At full draw on a normal arrow the fire will be right about were your bow hand is.. OUCHY... As for keeping them lit that's a good one.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Jessica E Baas
                        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:49 AM
                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows


                        Depends on if you're looking for real fire or not. At this past Great Western War, we had the opportunity to do a night time clout shoot. Since we couldn't have open flame, we use mini glo-sticks. They're a bit over an inch long, thin, and can be taped to existing arrows. We used clear packing tape and the green/yellow mini's. It worked really well and you could see them easily both in the air and on the ground (with the stick positioned just front of center). They do sell red/purple mini's, but we found them more difficult to see when we were testing. They weren't bad in the pitch dark though. No arrows wasted or lost, no likelihood of being burned, but fun none the less!

                        Christina

                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: "locm@..." <locm@...>
                        To: sca-archery@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:30:25 AM
                        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows

                        Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows that will stay

                        lit when you shoot them?

                        Thanks.

                        Leif of Crescent Moon

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                      • Jessica E Baas
                        We did the same, large glow sticks used for the target for the clout. Wow, it s hard to judge distance in the dark! I m decent at ranging distance during the
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                          We did the same, large glow sticks used for the target for the clout. Wow, it's hard to judge distance in the dark! I'm decent at ranging distance during the day, but at night, that's a whole different story!

                          We haven't been able to talk them into letting us try real flaming arrows yet, but we had talked about 36" tomato stakes from your local Home Depot with the most basic of self nocks. Hey, they're only going to shot once! Unfortunately, southern California isn't the best for anything with open flames anyway.

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Keith Crawley <crawleys@...>
                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:11:35 AM
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows













                          In Ealdormere we have been doing night shoots with glow sticks for many years courtesy of Lord Tosh. we use the longer bracelet sized sticks and make targets and all sorts out of the glow sticks as well.



                          For real fire you will first of all want to make sure you have arrows that are wayyyyy too long for normal shooting. At full draw on a normal arrow the fire will be right about were your bow hand is.. OUCHY... As for keeping them lit that's a good one.

                          ----- Original Message -----

                          From: Jessica E Baas

                          To: SCA-Archery@ yahoogroups. com

                          Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:49 AM

                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows



                          Depends on if you're looking for real fire or not. At this past Great Western War, we had the opportunity to do a night time clout shoot. Since we couldn't have open flame, we use mini glo-sticks. They're a bit over an inch long, thin, and can be taped to existing arrows. We used clear packing tape and the green/yellow mini's. It worked really well and you could see them easily both in the air and on the ground (with the stick positioned just front of center). They do sell red/purple mini's, but we found them more difficult to see when we were testing. They weren't bad in the pitch dark though. No arrows wasted or lost, no likelihood of being burned, but fun none the less!



                          Christina



                          ----- Original Message ----

                          From: "locm@osprey. net" <locm@osprey. net>

                          To: sca-archery@ yahoogroups. com

                          Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:30:25 AM

                          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows



                          Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows that will stay



                          lit when you shoot them?



                          Thanks.



                          Leif of Crescent Moon



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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • reza gilman
                          Have you thought of Pine tar soaked rag tips on extra long arrow shafts, you also might want to talk to Lord James Inn Danski of Calanais Nuadh since he has
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                            Have you thought of Pine tar soaked rag tips on extra long arrow shafts, you also might want to talk to Lord James Inn Danski of Calanais Nuadh since he has knowledge of the red beast( fire type stuff ) anyway i hope this helps.
                            YIS Lord Blackleg Gilmyn

                            "locm@..." <locm@...> wrote:

                            Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows that will stay
                            lit when you shoot them?

                            Thanks.

                            Leif of Crescent Moon





                            __________________________________________________
                            Do You Yahoo!?
                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            http://mail.yahoo.com

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Robert Lauderdale
                            Go to http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/grayson/koreanarchery/koreaarchery2.shtml and click on the picture for fire arrow to see a period-style design from
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                              Go to
                              http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/grayson/koreanarchery/koreaarchery2.shtml
                              and click on the picture for "fire arrow" to see a period-style design from
                              Korea.

                              Chidiock

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: <locm@...>
                              To: <sca-archery@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 10:30 AM
                              Subject: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows


                              >
                              > Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows that will
                              > stay
                              > lit when you shoot them?
                              >
                              > Thanks.
                              >
                              > Leif of Crescent Moon
                            • logantheboweyder
                              Now might be a good reminder that the common arrow sealer used today has nitrocellulose as its primary ingredient, and sustains combustion quite nicely, so if
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                                Now might be a good reminder that the common arrow sealer used today
                                has nitrocellulose as its primary ingredient, and sustains
                                combustion quite nicely, so if you do get the fire part to work, and
                                stay lit after it hits a target, that the arrow will pretty much be
                                toast afterwards. As well as the obvious dangers (flying flaming
                                objects possibly sending flaming bits anywhere along the trajectory,
                                having a burning wad of rags right by your bow hand, shooting an
                                arrow that you cannot verify that it isn't about to burn through,
                                etc...)

                                Logan

                                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "locm@..." <locm@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows
                                that will stay
                                > lit when you shoot them?
                                >
                                > Thanks.
                                >
                                > Leif of Crescent Moon
                                >
                              • 'Merry' Tirloghe Mirywoder Lutre
                                Cool... there s a message arrow too. Whisk THUNK .... Message for you sir .... ... -- // Merry ... Merry Tirloghe Mirywoder Lutre Shire of Standing
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                                  Cool... there's a message arrow too.
                                  Whisk THUNK .... "Message for you sir" ....

                                  Robert Lauderdale wrote:
                                  > Go to
                                  > http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/grayson/koreanarchery/koreaarchery2.shtml
                                  > and click on the picture for "fire arrow" to see a period-style design from
                                  > Korea.
                                  >
                                  > Chidiock
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: <locm@...>
                                  > To: <sca-archery@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 10:30 AM
                                  > Subject: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >> Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows that will
                                  >> stay
                                  >> lit when you shoot them?
                                  >>
                                  >> Thanks.
                                  >>
                                  >> Leif of Crescent Moon
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  --

                                  // Merry

                                  ----------
                                  "Merry" Tirloghe Mirywoder Lutre
                                  Shire of Standing Stones, University of Missouri at Columbia
                                  Formerly known as Philippe Sebastian LeLutre
                                  Mundanely known as Christian M. Cepel
                                  http://Thistledowne.org/ http://ShireOfStandingStones.org/

                                  'Toirdhealbhach' anglicized Tirloughe (1576), modernly 'Turlough',
                                  pronounced 'TIR' or 'TUR' + 'low', 'logh', 'lock', or 'loch'




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • 'Merry' Tirloghe Mirywoder Lutre
                                  I wonder if inertia has ever been a problem... I.e. I m having a Looney Tunes image form in my mind. 1. character holding a flaming arrow at draw 2. close up
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                                    I wonder if inertia has ever been a problem... I.e. I'm having a Looney
                                    Tunes image form in my mind.

                                    1. character holding a flaming arrow at draw

                                    2. close up to where the fire is burning off the material used to secure
                                    the rag-bundle to the shaft.

                                    3. Release!

                                    4. Arrow zips away leaving the mass of burning rags behind

                                    5. Standard cartoon physics engage

                                    6. Burning rags remain hovering while:
                                    a) camera pans back to show full character.
                                    b) character sees what happened.
                                    c) character comprehends what happened
                                    d) camera pans back more to show character
                                    standing in the middle of something highly
                                    flameable or explosive.
                                    e) pan back to character.... Face fills with terror
                                    f) one of two things happen.
                                    o Fatalistic look of accepting cruel fate crosses face
                                    o Plan for escape forms and character begins very
                                    first step of plan.... Begins.. no more.

                                    7. The forces of gravity resume function.

                                    8. Rags drop in to flammable substance.

                                    9. Woosh, upwards flame or explosion.

                                    10. Smoke clears to show charcoal colored character & equipment.

                                    11. Top limb of bow crumbles into ash top down.

                                    12 Bottom limb of bow crumbles into ash bottom up.

                                    13. White eyes of charcoal character blink exactly twice.

                                    14. Character crumbles to ask bottom up and top down.

                                    15. Ashes briefly hover before falling into small mound.

                                    16. Optionally, eyes may remain unburned to fall and rest in little
                                    mound of ash. They may again blink bewilderedly.


                                    logantheboweyder wrote:
                                    > Now might be a good reminder that the common arrow sealer used today
                                    > has nitrocellulose as its primary ingredient, and sustains
                                    > combustion quite nicely, so if you do get the fire part to work, and
                                    > stay lit after it hits a target, that the arrow will pretty much be
                                    > toast afterwards. As well as the obvious dangers (flying flaming
                                    > objects possibly sending flaming bits anywhere along the trajectory,
                                    > having a burning wad of rags right by your bow hand, shooting an
                                    > arrow that you cannot verify that it isn't about to burn through,
                                    > etc...)
                                    >
                                    > Logan
                                    >
                                    > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "locm@..." <locm@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows
                                    >>
                                    > that will stay
                                    >
                                    >> lit when you shoot them?
                                    >>
                                    >> Thanks.
                                    >>
                                    >> Leif of Crescent Moon
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >

                                    --

                                    // Merry

                                    ----------
                                    "Merry" Tirloghe Mirywoder Lutre
                                    Shire of Standing Stones, University of Missouri at Columbia
                                    Formerly known as Philippe Sebastian LeLutre
                                    Mundanely known as Christian M. Cepel
                                    http://Thistledowne.org/ http://ShireOfStandingStones.org/

                                    'Toirdhealbhach' anglicized Tirloughe (1576), modernly 'Turlough',
                                    pronounced 'TIR' or 'TUR' + 'low', 'logh', 'lock', or 'loch'




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Cian of Storvik
                                    Tods Stuff in the UK sells incendiary charges based on a historic German recipe of the 15th cen (so they claim). Their charges are pre- shaped wads that can be
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                                      Tods Stuff in the UK sells incendiary charges based on a historic
                                      German recipe of the 15th cen (so they claim). Their charges are pre-
                                      shaped wads that can be pressed onto an arrow head and lit. Due to
                                      shipping issues with combustables, you might be able to contact them
                                      to see if they would be willing to share the recipe.
                                      http://www.todsstuff.co.uk/incendiarycharges.php

                                      -Cian
                                    • Hal Snyder
                                      I use Profin with very good results and it is not anywhere near as flammable or toxic as LACQUER, which if you read the safety info on it is far more flammable
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                                        I use Profin with very good results and it is not anywhere near as
                                        flammable or toxic as LACQUER, which if you read the safety info on
                                        it is far more flammable and toxic than gasoline. And Lacquer is
                                        very flammable even after curing.... I am sure that this is the
                                        sealer that Logan is referencing. Another advantage to Profin is
                                        that you can dip it over your acrylic cresting to protect it.

                                        Harald

                                        Azure, on a cross argent between four arrows in saltire points to
                                        enter Or, a drawknife sable



                                        On Oct 23, 2007, at 2:11 PM, logantheboweyder wrote:

                                        > Now might be a good reminder that the common arrow sealer used today
                                        > has nitrocellulose as its primary ingredient, and sustains
                                        > combustion quite nicely, so if you do get the fire part to work, and
                                        > stay lit after it hits a target, that the arrow will pretty much be
                                        > toast afterwards. As well as the obvious dangers (flying flaming
                                        > objects possibly sending flaming bits anywhere along the trajectory,
                                        > having a burning wad of rags right by your bow hand, shooting an
                                        > arrow that you cannot verify that it isn't about to burn through,
                                        > etc...)
                                        >
                                        > Logan
                                        >
                                        > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "locm@..." <locm@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows
                                        > that will stay
                                        > > lit when you shoot them?
                                        > >
                                        > > Thanks.
                                        > >
                                        > > Leif of Crescent Moon
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Luigi Kapaj
                                        ... Its not longer arrows or shorter draw, its longer arrow heads. Especially consider the strategic over tactical use of fire arrows - you would need your
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                                          > 2a. Fire arrows

                                          Its not longer arrows or shorter draw, its longer arrow heads. Especially
                                          consider the strategic over tactical use of fire arrows - you would need
                                          your best range, so definitely no under drawing your bow.

                                          I have come across pictures of extant fire arrows in my Mongol research. The
                                          arrowhead is a 6-10" long spike, where the flamable material would get
                                          wrapped not touching the wood of the arrow, and having 4 cross spikes about
                                          1 or 2" at 90 degree angles from the base of the arrowhead and each other.

                                          The cross spikes may serve multiple functions. First, it prevents the
                                          flamable material from sliding up on the arrow shaft. Second, it would limit
                                          any penetration. You don't want to pierce a surface, especially cloth or
                                          felt walls or thatched roofs they often faced, you want to stop and ignite
                                          it. Third, if the arrow hits a hard surface and falls, it can act as a
                                          secondary catch to grab the surface to stop and ignite it.

                                          Not sure about the flamable material part. Considering what nomads had on
                                          hand, possibly felt soaked in animal grease, or tight bundles of straw.



                                          Puppy
                                          http://www.NYCMongol.com



                                          .
                                        • jameswolfden
                                          I posted a picture of some Asian fire arrows similar to what Luigi is describing. These were on display at the Hong Kong Museum of Coastal Defence. James ...
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 23, 2007
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                                            I posted a picture of some Asian fire arrows similar to what Luigi
                                            is describing. These were on display at the Hong Kong Museum of
                                            Coastal Defence.

                                            James

                                            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Luigi Kapaj" <puppy@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > 2a. Fire arrows
                                            >
                                            > Its not longer arrows or shorter draw, its longer arrow heads.
                                            Especially
                                            > consider the strategic over tactical use of fire arrows - you
                                            would need
                                            > your best range, so definitely no under drawing your bow.
                                            >
                                            > I have come across pictures of extant fire arrows in my Mongol
                                            research. The
                                            > arrowhead is a 6-10" long spike, where the flamable material would
                                            get
                                            > wrapped not touching the wood of the arrow, and having 4 cross
                                            spikes about
                                            > 1 or 2" at 90 degree angles from the base of the arrowhead and
                                            each other.
                                            >
                                            > The cross spikes may serve multiple functions. First, it prevents
                                            the
                                            > flamable material from sliding up on the arrow shaft. Second, it
                                            would limit
                                            > any penetration. You don't want to pierce a surface, especially
                                            cloth or
                                            > felt walls or thatched roofs they often faced, you want to stop
                                            and ignite
                                            > it. Third, if the arrow hits a hard surface and falls, it can act
                                            as a
                                            > secondary catch to grab the surface to stop and ignite it.
                                            >
                                            > Not sure about the flamable material part. Considering what nomads
                                            had on
                                            > hand, possibly felt soaked in animal grease, or tight bundles of
                                            straw.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Puppy
                                            > http://www.NYCMongol.com
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > .
                                            >
                                          • Brad Boda d'Aylward
                                            Nope. The Scarlet Guard of Æthelmearc tried this at a recent event with *long* arrows and cording wrapped around the tips which were soaked for several
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Oct 24, 2007
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                                              Nope.

                                              The Scarlet Guard of Æthelmearc tried this at a recent event with *long*
                                              arrows and cording wrapped around the tips which were soaked for several
                                              minutes in lamp oil. There was no fear of fire at the target. Every arrow
                                              IMMEDIATELY extinguished upon release. There was discussion about using tar
                                              next time.

                                              Brad


                                              Subject: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows



                                              Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows that will
                                              stay
                                              lit when you shoot them?

                                              Thanks.

                                              Leif of Crescent Moon
                                            • William Arwemakere
                                              Here in An Tir was a yearly event where fire arrows were shot into the sea. I asked the maker of them for details, and he gave me the I will have to kill you
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Oct 24, 2007
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                                                Here in An Tir was a yearly event where fire arrows were shot into the sea. I asked the maker of them for details, and he gave me the "I will have to kill you" answer. He finally relented...


                                                Use 1/2" dowel, as long as you feel safe with. Self nock the shaft. I believe the head end was weighted by inserting a nail into a drilled hole. One could also wire the nail to the shaft.

                                                Take a length of burlap approx 5" wide x a couple feet long. I'm not sure of the exact length. It should be long enough to wrap into a head 1.5" in diameter. Cut "slits" into the burlap along one edge.

                                                Wrap the burlap around the shaft with the slits facing forward. Secure the head with tie wire. The idea of these slits is to cause the leading edge of the head to mushroom open on release, creating a buffer behind so the arrow stays lit.

                                                Soak the heads in kereosene. I think they let them sit for 10 minutes or longer, to ensure full penetration.

                                                Light the head. Let the head burn for at least 10 seconds.

                                                Nock, draw, release.

                                                We have typically had over 100 of these arrows fly in a single night, with very few failures.

                                                William Arwemakere

                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Brad Boda d'Aylward <bradb@...>
                                                Date: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:21 pm
                                                Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows
                                                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com

                                                > Nope.
                                                >
                                                > The Scarlet Guard of Æthelmearc tried this at a recent event
                                                > with *long*
                                                > arrows and cording wrapped around the tips which were soaked for
                                                > severalminutes in lamp oil. There was no fear of fire at the
                                                > target. Every arrow
                                                > IMMEDIATELY extinguished upon release. There was discussion
                                                > about using tar
                                                > next time.
                                                >
                                                > Brad
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Subject: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows
                                                > that will
                                                > stay
                                                > lit when you shoot them?
                                                >
                                                > Thanks.
                                                >
                                                > Leif of Crescent Moon
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >


                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • John edgerton
                                                I believe the same effect has been done, with a bit more effort, by using small metal funnels or a cone of aluminum foil infront of the burning material to
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Oct 24, 2007
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                                                  I believe the same effect has been done, with a bit more effort, by
                                                  using small metal funnels or a cone of aluminum foil infront of the
                                                  burning material to deflect the wind that tries to blow it out.

                                                  Jon

                                                  On Oct 24, 2007, at 4:57 PM, William Arwemakere wrote:

                                                  > Here in An Tir was a yearly event where fire arrows were shot into
                                                  > the sea. I asked the maker of them for details, and he gave me the
                                                  > "I will have to kill you" answer. He finally relented...
                                                  >
                                                  > Use 1/2" dowel, as long as you feel safe with. Self nock the shaft.
                                                  > I believe the head end was weighted by inserting a nail into a
                                                  > drilled hole. One could also wire the nail to the shaft.
                                                  >
                                                  > Take a length of burlap approx 5" wide x a couple feet long. I'm
                                                  > not sure of the exact length. It should be long enough to wrap into
                                                  > a head 1.5" in diameter. Cut "slits" into the burlap along one edge.
                                                  >
                                                  > Wrap the burlap around the shaft with the slits facing forward.
                                                  > Secure the head with tie wire. The idea of these slits is to cause
                                                  > the leading edge of the head to mushroom open on release, creating
                                                  > a buffer behind so the arrow stays lit.
                                                  >
                                                  > Soak the heads in kereosene. I think they let them sit for 10
                                                  > minutes or longer, to ensure full penetration.
                                                  >
                                                  > Light the head. Let the head burn for at least 10 seconds.
                                                  >
                                                  > Nock, draw, release.
                                                  >
                                                  > We have typically had over 100 of these arrows fly in a single
                                                  > night, with very few failures.
                                                  >
                                                  > William Arwemakere
                                                  >
                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > From: Brad Boda d'Aylward <bradb@...>
                                                  > Date: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:21 pm
                                                  > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows
                                                  > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >
                                                  > > Nope.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > The Scarlet Guard of Æthelmearc tried this at a recent event
                                                  > > with *long*
                                                  > > arrows and cording wrapped around the tips which were soaked for
                                                  > > severalminutes in lamp oil. There was no fear of fire at the
                                                  > > target. Every arrow
                                                  > > IMMEDIATELY extinguished upon release. There was discussion
                                                  > > about using tar
                                                  > > next time.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Brad
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Subject: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Does anyone out there have any information on making fire arrows
                                                  > > that will
                                                  > > stay
                                                  > > lit when you shoot them?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Thanks.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Leif of Crescent Moon
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >



                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • carl.west@comcast.net
                                                  ... No fletching? Cool. How far/high do they go? - Fritz
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Oct 24, 2007
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                                                    -------------- Original message ----------------------
                                                    > ...
                                                    > Use 1/2" dowel,...burlap ... kereosene.... 10 seconds... Nock, draw, release.
                                                    >
                                                    > We have typically had over 100 of these arrows fly in a single night, with very
                                                    > few failures.

                                                    No fletching? Cool.
                                                    How far/high do they go?

                                                    - Fritz
                                                  • loreleiElkins@aol.com
                                                    Were you just firing them into a field or at a target? No problem setting grass or such on fire? I would love to see this, it sounds like a blast. You
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Oct 25, 2007
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                                                      Were you just firing them into a field or at a target? No problem setting
                                                      grass or such on fire? I would love to see this, it sounds like a blast. You
                                                      KNOW what we will be trying soon!

                                                      Lady Lorelei Greenleaf
                                                      Crois Brigte, Sacred Stone
                                                      Atlantia

                                                      In a message dated 10/25/2007 12:35:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                      carl.west@... writes:

                                                      > ...
                                                      > Use 1/2" dowel,...burlap ... kereosene.... 10 seconds... Nock, draw,
                                                      release.
                                                      >
                                                      > We have typically had over 100 of these arrows fly in a single night, with
                                                      very
                                                      > few failures.

                                                      No fletching? Cool.
                                                      How far/high do they go?

                                                      - Fritz





                                                      Lorelei



                                                      ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • jameswolfden
                                                      The event was Mermaids Tourney in the Shire of False Isle and the arrows were fired from the beach into the Pacific Ocean. Unfortunately, the site location has
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Oct 25, 2007
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                                                        The event was Mermaids Tourney in the Shire of False Isle and the arrows were fired from
                                                        the beach into the Pacific Ocean. Unfortunately, the site location has been redeveloped and
                                                        the Shire had to move the Tourney elsewhere away from the water.

                                                        http://home.prcn.org/sfryer/SCA/Mermaid2001/flarrows.html

                                                        We have a few more photos on the Lions Gate Archer group. I will see if I can post some
                                                        here.

                                                        James


                                                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, loreleiElkins@... wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Were you just firing them into a field or at a target? No problem setting
                                                        > grass or such on fire? I would love to see this, it sounds like a blast. You
                                                        > KNOW what we will be trying soon!
                                                        >
                                                        > Lady Lorelei Greenleaf
                                                        > Crois Brigte, Sacred Stone
                                                        > Atlantia
                                                        >
                                                        > In a message dated 10/25/2007 12:35:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                        > carl.west@... writes:
                                                        >
                                                        > > ...
                                                        > > Use 1/2" dowel,...burlap ... kereosene.... 10 seconds... Nock, draw,
                                                        > release.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > We have typically had over 100 of these arrows fly in a single night, with
                                                        > very
                                                        > > few failures.
                                                        >
                                                        > No fletching? Cool.
                                                        > How far/high do they go?
                                                        >
                                                        > - Fritz
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Lorelei
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >
                                                      • Brad Boda d'Aylward
                                                        Æ Scarlet Guard target was a fire pit with lamp oil soaked wood for the bardic circle at the end of an archery event. The Guard was going to set the wood
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Nov 2, 2007
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                                                          Æ Scarlet Guard target was a fire pit with lamp oil soaked wood for the
                                                          bardic circle at the end of an archery event. The Guard was going to set the
                                                          wood afire. I like the burlap idea with slits. Makes sense.

                                                          Brad


                                                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Fire arrows


                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Were you just firing them into a field or at a target? No problem
                                                          setting
                                                          > grass or such on fire? I would love to see this, it sounds like a blast.
                                                          You
                                                          > KNOW what we will be trying soon!
                                                          >
                                                          > Lady Lorelei Greenleaf
                                                          > Crois Brigte, Sacred Stone
                                                          > Atlantia
                                                          >
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