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Arrow making

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  • Alaric de Colville
    I m curious for anyone out there who makes their own arrows, can dowel rods from any Lowes be used? I know they could have bowing or imperfections, but I was
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 27, 2006
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      I'm curious for anyone out there who makes their own arrows, can dowel
      rods from any Lowes be used? I know they could have bowing or
      imperfections, but I was curious if they would work for inexpensive
      arrows if you can find some that are straight (both for target
      practice, and for practicing making arrows :)

      Any thoughts are helpful.
      Thanks much

      Regards,
      --Alaric de Colville
    • Rj Bachner
      The quick answer is yes. As long as they are stiff enough not to explode on release they should work. However there is a lot to making arrows work well aside
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 27, 2006
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        The quick answer is yes. As long as they are stiff enough not to explode on
        release they should work. However there is a lot to making arrows work well
        aside from straightness. Correct spine for your bow is important and the
        mass weight of each finished arrow should be at least as close as possible.
        This is not that easy to do with dowels from a hardware store.

        That being said, with care and time and the right info you can make great
        arrows this way. Especially if they are for a low weight bow.

        Go to www.diy.brokenaxe.ca and look for the link to scaarrows. This will
        help.

        Good luck

        Ragi

        -----Original Message-----
        From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Alaric de Colville
        Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 7:38 AM
        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Arrow making

        I'm curious for anyone out there who makes their own arrows, can dowel
        rods from any Lowes be used? I know they could have bowing or
        imperfections, but I was curious if they would work for inexpensive
        arrows if you can find some that are straight (both for target
        practice, and for practicing making arrows :)

        Any thoughts are helpful.
        Thanks much

        Regards,
        --Alaric de Colville









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      • Alaric de Colville
        That s good information to have..many thanks for that. I was only going to use the dowels to get the hang out of making arrows for myself..and maybe a target
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 27, 2006
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          That's good information to have..many thanks for that.

          I was only going to use the dowels to get the hang out of making
          arrows for myself..and maybe a target practice or two :). I figured
          once I got the hang of it I'd get some good wood and make some decient
          arrows. I just split one of mine the other day (couldn't make that
          shot again in a million years...) and I don't feel like constantly
          buying more arrows if I can make them myself.

          I'll definately check out that link you included.

          Again, thanks :)
          --Alaric
        • james kennedy
          ... There is another issue relating to how dowels are made. Arrow shafts are draw milled, which means that they are pulled through the milling machinery from
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 27, 2006
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            >> I'm curious for anyone out there who makes their own arrows, can
            >> dowel rods from any Lowes be used? I know they could have bowing or
            >> imperfections, but I was curious if they would work for inexpensive
            >> arrows if you can find some that are straight (both for target
            >> practice, and for practicing making arrows :)

            > The quick answer is yes. As long as they are stiff enough not to
            > explode on release they should work. However there is a lot to
            > making arrows work well aside from straightness. Correct spine for
            > your bow is important and the mass weight of each finished arrow
            > should be at least as close as possible. This is not that easy to
            > do with dowels from a hardware store.
            >
            > That being said, with care and time and the right info you can make
            > great arrows this way. Especially if they are for a low weight bow.

            There is another issue relating to how dowels are made. Arrow shafts
            are draw milled, which means that they are pulled through the milling
            machinery from the front end. It takes specialized equipment and is
            what makes arrow shafts more expensive than dowel. Push milling, which
            is how regular dowel is made, puts more stress on the wood and creates
            weaknesses in the grain. The wood used in dowels is also weeaker than
            the wood used in arrow shafts. Spine (stiffness) only applies to
            resistance to bending, not resistance to breaking. Dowels are far
            easier to break than arrow shafts. I wouldn't trust them.

            canute

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          • Rj Bachner
            heya Yes you are right that is a concern but not really a big one. Have you ever heard of The Nutter ? It is cheap disposable stump shooting arrow designed
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 27, 2006
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              heya

              Yes you are right that is a concern but not really a big one. Have you ever
              heard of "The Nutter"? It is cheap disposable stump shooting arrow designed
              to be cheap and hard hitting off of heavy hunting bows. The guys over at
              trad gang really love these arrows and I have myself used many.

              The breakage issue needs to be something to keep in mind yes when selecting
              shafting but it is not huge.

              And I have seen a lot of doweling now that is either milled or run through a
              rotary cutter. I don't see so many extruded dowels any more. Who knows maybe
              the use of doweling as arrows is becoming common enough that the
              manufractures are making them a little better.

              Ragi

              -----Original Message-----
              From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of james kennedy
              Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 9:17 AM
              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Arrow making

              > The quick answer is yes. As long as they are stiff enough not to
              > explode on release they should work. However there is a lot to
              > making arrows work well aside from straightness. Correct spine for
              > your bow is important and the mass weight of each finished arrow
              > should be at least as close as possible. This is not that easy to
              > do with dowels from a hardware store.
              >
              > That being said, with care and time and the right info you can make
              > great arrows this way. Especially if they are for a low weight bow.

              There is another issue relating to how dowels are made. Arrow shafts
              are draw milled, which means that they are pulled through the milling
              machinery from the front end. It takes specialized equipment and is
              what makes arrow shafts more expensive than dowel. Push milling, which
              is how regular dowel is made, puts more stress on the wood and creates
              weaknesses in the grain. The wood used in dowels is also weeaker than
              the wood used in arrow shafts. Spine (stiffness) only applies to
              resistance to bending, not resistance to breaking. Dowels are far
              easier to break than arrow shafts. I wouldn't trust them.
            • Carolus von Eulenhorst
              .Another concern I have is with your choice of Lowe s itself. I have tried to buy ordinary lumber from them several times in the last year or so only to go
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 27, 2006
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                .Another concern I have is with your choice of Lowe's itself. I have
                tried to buy ordinary lumber from them several times in the last year
                or so only to go elsewhere because the quality was so bad I wouldn't
                use it for firewood. I will not allow dowel arrows on a range under
                my control unless it is a solitary, very experienced arrow maker and
                he acknowledges with a separate waiver the dangers. Your Lowe's may
                differ, California seems to draw the shoddiest in business practices
                and products.
                Carolus

                At 06:17 AM 2/27/2006, you wrote:

                > >> I'm curious for anyone out there who makes their own arrows, can
                > >> dowel rods from any Lowes be used? I know they could have bowing or
                > >> imperfections, but I was curious if they would work for inexpensive
                > >> arrows if you can find some that are straight (both for target
                > >> practice, and for practicing making arrows :)
                >
                > > The quick answer is yes. As long as they are stiff enough not to
                > > explode on release they should work. However there is a lot to
                > > making arrows work well aside from straightness. Correct spine for
                > > your bow is important and the mass weight of each finished arrow
                > > should be at least as close as possible. This is not that easy to
                > > do with dowels from a hardware store.
                > >
                > > That being said, with care and time and the right info you can make
                > > great arrows this way. Especially if they are for a low weight bow.
                >
                >There is another issue relating to how dowels are made. Arrow shafts
                >are draw milled, which means that they are pulled through the milling
                >machinery from the front end. It takes specialized equipment and is
                >what makes arrow shafts more expensive than dowel. Push milling, which
                >is how regular dowel is made, puts more stress on the wood and creates
                >weaknesses in the grain. The wood used in dowels is also weeaker than
                >the wood used in arrow shafts. Spine (stiffness) only applies to
                >resistance to bending, not resistance to breaking. Dowels are far
                >easier to break than arrow shafts. I wouldn't trust them.
                >
                >canute
                >
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              • Rj Bachner
                Heya Carolus, I wonder how you could tell in many cases if they were doweling or not? Ok ramin is a fair guess off the bat but if they are well made then how
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 27, 2006
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                  Heya

                  Carolus, I wonder how you could tell in many cases if they were doweling or
                  not? Ok ramin is a fair guess off the bat but if they are well made then how
                  would you discriminate one from the other? I get poplar and ash and ramin
                  and birch dowels. If I was not saying you could not tell where I got the
                  shafting.

                  I agree though that it takes more than basic skill to choose well the dowels
                  used. But if folks wont volunteer the info how do you tell?

                  Ragi

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
                  Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:15 AM
                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Arrow making

                  .Another concern I have is with your choice of Lowe's itself. I have
                  tried to buy ordinary lumber from them several times in the last year
                  or so only to go elsewhere because the quality was so bad I wouldn't
                  use it for firewood. I will not allow dowel arrows on a range under
                  my control unless it is a solitary, very experienced arrow maker and
                  he acknowledges with a separate waiver the dangers. Your Lowe's may
                  differ, California seems to draw the shoddiest in business practices
                  and products.
                  Carolus

                  At 06:17 AM 2/27/2006, you wrote:

                  > >> I'm curious for anyone out there who makes their own arrows, can
                  > >> dowel rods from any Lowes be used? I know they could have bowing or
                  > >> imperfections, but I was curious if they would work for inexpensive
                  > >> arrows if you can find some that are straight (both for target
                  > >> practice, and for practicing making arrows :)
                  >
                  > > The quick answer is yes. As long as they are stiff enough not to
                  > > explode on release they should work. However there is a lot to
                  > > making arrows work well aside from straightness. Correct spine for
                  > > your bow is important and the mass weight of each finished arrow
                  > > should be at least as close as possible. This is not that easy to
                  > > do with dowels from a hardware store.
                  > >
                  > > That being said, with care and time and the right info you can make
                  > > great arrows this way. Especially if they are for a low weight bow.
                  >
                  >There is another issue relating to how dowels are made. Arrow shafts
                  >are draw milled, which means that they are pulled through the milling
                  >machinery from the front end. It takes specialized equipment and is
                  >what makes arrow shafts more expensive than dowel. Push milling, which
                  >is how regular dowel is made, puts more stress on the wood and creates
                  >weaknesses in the grain. The wood used in dowels is also weeaker than
                  >the wood used in arrow shafts. Spine (stiffness) only applies to
                  >resistance to bending, not resistance to breaking. Dowels are far
                  >easier to break than arrow shafts. I wouldn't trust them.
                  >
                  >canute
                  >
                  >__________________________________________________
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                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • Siegfried
                  I have never used them for arrows -- However, I have used them, and regularly do use them, for crossbow bolts. Being cut shorter, the imperfections in the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 27, 2006
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                    I have never used them for arrows -- However, I have used them, and
                    regularly do use them, for crossbow bolts.

                    Being cut shorter, the imperfections in the grain and varience in spine
                    don't matter.

                    However at the same time, weight is very important to crossbow bolts, so I
                    tend to buy a ton of the shafts (after sitting through multiple stores and
                    digging through to find only the straightest ones) Cut them all to the
                    length I want for crossbow bolts, and then weight them all, writing their
                    weight on them, and sort them into batches by the 10's of grain weight.

                    Also, I use 5/16" Ramin, or 3/8" Poplar ... 5/16" poplar is too breakable,
                    and 3/8" Ramin is too heavy and inconsistant.

                    Oak is good too, but more expensive and heavier, so I only use that if I'm
                    wanting to make display bolts.

                    Siegfried


                    On 2/27/06, Alaric de Colville <awilisch@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm curious for anyone out there who makes their own arrows, can dowel
                    > rods from any Lowes be used? I know they could have bowing or
                    > imperfections, but I was curious if they would work for inexpensive
                    > arrows if you can find some that are straight (both for target
                    > practice, and for practicing making arrows :)
                    >
                    > Any thoughts are helpful.
                    > Thanks much
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    > --Alaric de Colville
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---8<---------------------------------------------
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                    > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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                    > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    --
                    _________________________________________________________________________
                    THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
                    Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
                    Kingdom of Atlantia - Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                    http://eliw.com/ - http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                    Experience with the woods is key here. Weight, spine, grain structure, machine marks, and questioning the archer all play a part. If the arrows pass detailed
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 27, 2006
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                      Experience with the woods is key here. Weight, spine, grain
                      structure, machine marks, and questioning the archer all play a
                      part. If the arrows pass detailed inspection and are not
                      distinguishable I have found them ok but in the 15 years I have been
                      marshalling and the 42 years I have been shooting, I have only found
                      one set of dowel arrows to meet this. I have had many cases of
                      dowels shattering while working with them as pegs and pins. As I
                      say, this is with California products and I have noticed that we seem
                      to get a higher percentage of junk in our stores (maybe because we
                      are more urban and the retailers don't get caught as often) and that
                      seems to be increasing.
                      Carolus

                      At 07:18 AM 2/27/2006, you wrote:

                      >Heya
                      >
                      >Carolus, I wonder how you could tell in many cases if they were doweling or
                      >not? Ok ramin is a fair guess off the bat but if they are well made then how
                      >would you discriminate one from the other? I get poplar and ash and ramin
                      >and birch dowels. If I was not saying you could not tell where I got the
                      >shafting.
                      >
                      >I agree though that it takes more than basic skill to choose well the dowels
                      >used. But if folks wont volunteer the info how do you tell?
                      >
                      >Ragi
                      >
                      >-----Original Message-----
                      >From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                      >Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
                      >Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:15 AM
                      >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Arrow making
                      >
                      >.Another concern I have is with your choice of Lowe's itself. I have
                      >tried to buy ordinary lumber from them several times in the last year
                      >or so only to go elsewhere because the quality was so bad I wouldn't
                      >use it for firewood. I will not allow dowel arrows on a range under
                      >my control unless it is a solitary, very experienced arrow maker and
                      >he acknowledges with a separate waiver the dangers. Your Lowe's may
                      >differ, California seems to draw the shoddiest in business practices
                      >and products.
                      >Carolus
                      >
                      >At 06:17 AM 2/27/2006, you wrote:
                      >
                      > > >> I'm curious for anyone out there who makes their own arrows, can
                      > > >> dowel rods from any Lowes be used? I know they could have bowing or
                      > > >> imperfections, but I was curious if they would work for inexpensive
                      > > >> arrows if you can find some that are straight (both for target
                      > > >> practice, and for practicing making arrows :)
                      > >
                      > > > The quick answer is yes. As long as they are stiff enough not to
                      > > > explode on release they should work. However there is a lot to
                      > > > making arrows work well aside from straightness. Correct spine for
                      > > > your bow is important and the mass weight of each finished arrow
                      > > > should be at least as close as possible. This is not that easy to
                      > > > do with dowels from a hardware store.
                      > > >
                      > > > That being said, with care and time and the right info you can make
                      > > > great arrows this way. Especially if they are for a low weight bow.
                      > >
                      > >There is another issue relating to how dowels are made. Arrow shafts
                      > >are draw milled, which means that they are pulled through the milling
                      > >machinery from the front end. It takes specialized equipment and is
                      > >what makes arrow shafts more expensive than dowel. Push milling, which
                      > >is how regular dowel is made, puts more stress on the wood and creates
                      > >weaknesses in the grain. The wood used in dowels is also weeaker than
                      > >the wood used in arrow shafts. Spine (stiffness) only applies to
                      > >resistance to bending, not resistance to breaking. Dowels are far
                      > >easier to break than arrow shafts. I wouldn't trust them.
                      > >
                      > >canute
                      > >
                      > >__________________________________________________
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                    • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                      You will find arrow shafting by the one hundred(Three Rivers etc) is cheaper than Lowes dowelling and ten times as good. But, yes you can make arrows from the
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 27, 2006
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                        You will find arrow shafting by the one hundred(Three Rivers etc) is cheaper
                        than Lowes dowelling and ten times as good. But, yes you can make arrows
                        from the straitest dowels you can find. They will be cheap arrows and the
                        people who have made those type of arrows soon switch to arrow shafting. Put
                        big fletching on them to help pull them strait on the way to the target.

                        The old addage is find any bow you can but spend as much as you can afford
                        on the arrows.

                        James Cunningham


                        > I'm curious for anyone out there who makes their own arrows, can dowel
                        > rods from any Lowes be used? I know they could have bowing or
                        > imperfections, but I was curious if they would work for inexpensive
                        > arrows if you can find some that are straight (both for target
                        > practice, and for practicing making arrows :)
                        >
                        > Any thoughts are helpful.
                        > Thanks much
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        > --Alaric de Colville
                        >
                      • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                        I guess in OHIO Lowes is different. I built a 24X40 foot two story with basment workshop with 80% of the wood comming from Lowes and most of it was nice
                        Message 11 of 11 , Feb 27, 2006
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                          I guess in OHIO Lowes is different. I built a 24X40 foot two story with
                          basment workshop with 80% of the wood comming from Lowes and most of it was
                          nice lumber(not furniture grade but) good building grade.

                          James Cunningham
                          P.S. The rest of the wood came direct from the saw mill.
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Carolus von Eulenhorst" <eulenhorst@...>
                          To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:15 AM
                          Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Arrow making


                          > .Another concern I have is with your choice of Lowe's itself. I have
                          > tried to buy ordinary lumber from them several times in the last year
                          > or so only to go elsewhere because the quality was so bad I wouldn't
                          > use it for firewood. I will not allow dowel arrows on a range under
                          > my control unless it is a solitary, very experienced arrow maker and
                          > he acknowledges with a separate waiver the dangers. Your Lowe's may
                          > differ, California seems to draw the shoddiest in business practices
                          > and products.
                          > Carolus
                          >
                          > At 06:17 AM 2/27/2006, you wrote:
                          >
                          > > >> I'm curious for anyone out there who makes their own arrows, can
                          > > >> dowel rods from any Lowes be used? I know they could have bowing or
                          > > >> imperfections, but I was curious if they would work for inexpensive
                          > > >> arrows if you can find some that are straight (both for target
                          > > >> practice, and for practicing making arrows :)
                          > >
                          > > > The quick answer is yes. As long as they are stiff enough not to
                          > > > explode on release they should work. However there is a lot to
                          > > > making arrows work well aside from straightness. Correct spine for
                          > > > your bow is important and the mass weight of each finished arrow
                          > > > should be at least as close as possible. This is not that easy to
                          > > > do with dowels from a hardware store.
                          > > >
                          > > > That being said, with care and time and the right info you can make
                          > > > great arrows this way. Especially if they are for a low weight bow.
                          > >
                          > >There is another issue relating to how dowels are made. Arrow shafts
                          > >are draw milled, which means that they are pulled through the milling
                          > >machinery from the front end. It takes specialized equipment and is
                          > >what makes arrow shafts more expensive than dowel. Push milling, which
                          > >is how regular dowel is made, puts more stress on the wood and creates
                          > >weaknesses in the grain. The wood used in dowels is also weeaker than
                          > >the wood used in arrow shafts. Spine (stiffness) only applies to
                          > >resistance to bending, not resistance to breaking. Dowels are far
                          > >easier to break than arrow shafts. I wouldn't trust them.
                          > >
                          > >canute
                          > >
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