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Cloth

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  • Hal Clark
    While shooting today, I noticed some of the cloth used on greenhouses hanging over a fence. I shot it. range 20 yards, 50# bow, sca legal target arrows.
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 1, 2006
      While shooting today, I noticed some of the cloth used on greenhouses hanging over a fence. I shot it. range 20 yards,
      50# bow, sca legal target arrows. folded once, (2layers) stopped about 25% of arrows. F0lded twice (4 layers) Stopped about 75% of arrows. Folded thrice ( 8 layers) stopped all arrows.
      Interesting.
      Walk Tall
      Baron Ben


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      Sent via the KillerWebMail system at dfn.com
    • Kinjal of Moravia
      ... Of course, if you let it hang free in front of the fence rather than over it, a single layer will stop ALL of the arrows. Many posts in the archives on
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 1, 2006
        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Hal Clark" <hlclark@...> wrote:

        Of course, if you let it hang free in front of the fence rather than
        over it, a single layer will stop ALL of the arrows. Many posts in
        the archives on this.

        kinjal
        .................................................


        > While shooting today, I noticed some of the cloth used on
        greenhouses hanging over a fence. I shot it. range 20 yards,
        > 50# bow, sca legal target arrows. folded once, (2layers) stopped
        about 25% of arrows. F0lded twice (4 layers) Stopped about 75% of
        arrows. Folded thrice ( 8 layers) stopped all arrows.
        > Interesting.
        > Walk Tall
        > Baron Ben
        >
        >
        > ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________
        > Sent via the KillerWebMail system at dfn.com
        >
      • loreleiElkins@aol.com
        Are you talking about the black loose weave plastic fabric? I think it is also called shade cloth. Or was it the clear plastic? In a message dated 2/1/2006
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 1, 2006
          Are you talking about the black loose weave plastic fabric? I think it is
          also called shade cloth. Or was it the clear plastic?

          In a message dated 2/1/2006 6:05:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          hlclark@... writes:

          While shooting today, I noticed some of the cloth used on greenhouses
          hanging over a fence. I shot it. range 20 yards,
          50# bow, sca legal target arrows. folded once, (2layers) stopped about 25%
          of arrows. F0lded twice (4 layers) Stopped about 75% of arrows. Folded
          thrice ( 8 layers) stopped all arrows.
          Interesting.
          Walk Tall
          Baron Ben





          Lorelei


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Hal Clark
          Lorelei, this was green but I believe it is the same as the black loose weave. Seems to have worked by traveling with the arrow and folding around it to
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 1, 2006
            Lorelei,
            this was green but I believe it is the same as the black loose weave. Seems to have worked by traveling with the arrow and folding around it to absorb velocity /
            Walk Tall
            Baron Ben


            ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
            From: loreleiElkins@...
            Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:37:27 EST

            >
            >
            >Are you talking about the black loose weave plastic fabric? I think it is
            >also called shade cloth. Or was it the clear plastic
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          • loreleiElkins@aol.com
            Excellent, I have some of that, I will give it a try! Thank you Baron Ben In a message dated 2/1/2006 10:43:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, hlclark@dfn.com
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 2, 2006
              Excellent, I have some of that, I will give it a try! Thank you Baron Ben

              In a message dated 2/1/2006 10:43:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              hlclark@... writes:

              Lorelei,
              this was green but I believe it is the same as the black loose weave. Seems
              to have worked by traveling with the arrow and folding around it to absorb
              velocity /
              Walk Tall
              Baron Ben


              ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
              From: loreleiElkins@...
              Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:37:27 EST

              >
              >
              >Are you talking about the black loose weave plastic fabric? I think it is

              >also called shade cloth. Or was it the clear plastic
              >---8<---------------------------------------------






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mike Giovaninni
              Greetings to the list... Been lurking for a bit as life has had me firmly in it s clutches... But surfaced am I, and I am seeking knowledge... Specifically..
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 2, 2006
                Greetings to the list...

                Been lurking for a bit as life has had me firmly in it's clutches... But surfaced am I, and I am seeking knowledge...

                Specifically.. I am seeking any info that will lead me to the production of items that might have been worn by an archer in the 13th c., preferably info that would point me to a middle English personnae... Items I am interested in reproducing are as follows:

                Garb appropriate to the middle Brittish Isles
                Armor that may have been worn by such an archer in the service of the Crown
                Necessities such as quiver, bow (i.e. flat vs. D section longbow), gauntlets, bracers, knives, footwear...

                Any museum, web, or book based resources that might point me in the direction I am travelling would be greatly appreciated...

                Please either respond here, or directly to me at mgio@...

                Many thanks in advance!

                Yours in Service

                Detharlion of Nottingham


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              • atruemark@aol.com
                Greetings unto Detharlion of Nottingham. I know of a gentle in AnTir who has been researching the same era and context for nine years now. He is extremely
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 2, 2006
                  Greetings unto Detharlion of Nottingham. I know of a gentle in AnTir who
                  has been researching the same era and context for nine years now. He is
                  extremely knowledgeable and I will forward your email to him.

                  Regards,

                  Master Andras Truemark
                  AnTir


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • J. Hughes
                  The first thing in putting that together is that a 13th century archer would probably be a (composit prod) crossbowmen. Handbowmen were fewer and paid less.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 2, 2006
                    The first thing in putting that together is that a 13th century archer would probably be a (composit prod) crossbowmen. Handbowmen were fewer and paid less. Edward I at the start of the 14th century starts converting the reliance of the English crown to the handbow. With increases in adverage length and poundage, and massing thousands of archers, we have the emergence of the "Great War Bow" usually called the longbow.

                    Charles O'Connor

                    Mike Giovaninni <mgio@...> wrote:
                    Greetings to the list...

                    Been lurking for a bit as life has had me firmly in it's clutches... But surfaced am I, and I am seeking knowledge...

                    Specifically.. I am seeking any info that will lead me to the production of items that might have been worn by an archer in the 13th c., preferably info that would point me to a middle English personnae... Items I am interested in reproducing are as follows:

                    Garb appropriate to the middle Brittish Isles
                    Armor that may have been worn by such an archer in the service of the Crown
                    Necessities such as quiver, bow (i.e. flat vs. D section longbow), gauntlets, bracers, knives, footwear...

                    Any museum, web, or book based resources that might point me in the direction I am travelling would be greatly appreciated...

                    Please either respond here, or directly to me at mgio@...

                    Many thanks in advance!

                    Yours in Service

                    Detharlion of Nottingham


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                  • Cian of Storvik
                    I agree with Charles in that the longbow didn t really gain it s true respect until the late scottish campaigns; halidon hill c. 1333 (14th cen). I recently
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 2, 2006
                      I agree with Charles in that the longbow didn't really gain it's
                      true respect until the late scottish campaigns; "halidon hill" c.
                      1333 (14th cen).

                      I recently started a group to house images and links to English
                      Longbow resources. groups.yahoo.com/group/english_longbow

                      English longbowmen came in many flavors so picking accoutrements and
                      uniform are up to a bit of interpretation. There was no
                      true "standing national army" or uniform as we have in the modern
                      sense of the word uniform. Garrisoned troups, and household archers
                      would have worn matching livery to one another. But archers from
                      nearby towns within the same shire might look completely different
                      from each other. Levied troups would have been wearing whatever they
                      owned, plus miscellaneous items supplied by the commander/levying
                      disctrict or lord and perhaps a tabbard.

                      To help yourself out, I would suggest you try to pick your personae.
                      Not just time and location, but also what do you do? Are you a full-
                      time glassblower that shoots arrows weekly due to Royal mandate and
                      has taken on a position for the season as a levied archer because
                      you couldn't afford to pass up the 6p a day? Or maybe you're on full
                      time retinue with the local lord or township. Room and board
                      provided as a "career" archer. A member of a mercenary group
                      available for the highest bidder? An outlaw living in the greenwood,
                      making your meat in the King's forest poaching? Narrow the scope and
                      it will help you hone in on what accessories you will need.

                      -Cian
                    • Lord Cain Saethydd
                      Very astute of you to ask if the Flat Bow or D-section Bows were used in your area and time. Very few folks even recognize the existance of the traditional bow
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 3, 2006
                        Very astute of you to ask if the Flat Bow or D-section Bows were
                        used in your area and time. Very few folks even recognize the
                        existance of the traditional bow of the region. Both were used in
                        service to the Crowns. I believe mostly D-sections, though. Later
                        period actualy saw many flat bows due to the need to get the most
                        out of what little wood they had. However, Wales had a large
                        influence over middle England, and thier bows were predominatley
                        flat. (even if the Welsch longbowmen were primarily from southern
                        Wales)

                        As far as the bow goes, by all means choose what you are most
                        comfortable with. I am certain the flat bow would create many a fine
                        conversation =).

                        THL Cain

                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Mike Giovaninni <mgio@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Greetings to the list...
                        >
                        > Been lurking for a bit as life has had me firmly in it's
                        clutches... But surfaced am I, and I am seeking knowledge...
                        >
                        > Specifically.. I am seeking any info that will lead me to the
                        production of items that might have been worn by an archer in the
                        13th c., preferably info that would point me to a middle English
                        personnae... Items I am interested in reproducing are as follows:
                        >
                        > Garb appropriate to the middle Brittish Isles
                        > Armor that may have been worn by such an archer in the service
                        of the Crown
                        > Necessities such as quiver, bow (i.e. flat vs. D section
                        longbow), gauntlets, bracers, knives, footwear...
                        >
                        > Any museum, web, or book based resources that might point me in
                        the direction I am travelling would be greatly appreciated...
                        >
                        > Please either respond here, or directly to me at mgio@...
                        >
                        > Many thanks in advance!
                        >
                        > Yours in Service
                        >
                        > Detharlion of Nottingham
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Bring words and photos together (easily) with
                        > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • william
                        ***Cian s essay here is really interesting. I ll check out his new Yahoo group.***
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 3, 2006
                          ***Cian's essay here is really interesting. I'll check out his new Yahoo
                          group.***

                          >I agree with Charles in that the longbow didn't really gain it's
                          > true respect until the late scottish campaigns; "halidon hill" c.
                          > 1333 (14th cen).
                          >
                          > I recently started a group to house images and links to English
                          > Longbow resources. groups.yahoo.com/group/english_longbow
                          >
                          > English longbowmen came in many flavors so picking accoutrements and
                          > uniform are up to a bit of interpretation. There was no
                          > true "standing national army" or uniform as we have in the modern
                          > sense of the word uniform. Garrisoned troups, and household archers
                          > would have worn matching livery to one another. But archers from
                          > nearby towns within the same shire might look completely different
                          > from each other. Levied troups would have been wearing whatever they
                          > owned, plus miscellaneous items supplied by the commander/levying
                          > disctrict or lord and perhaps a tabbard.
                          >
                          > To help yourself out, I would suggest you try to pick your personae.
                          > Not just time and location, but also what do you do? Are you a full-
                          > time glassblower that shoots arrows weekly due to Royal mandate and
                          > has taken on a position for the season as a levied archer because
                          > you couldn't afford to pass up the 6p a day? Or maybe you're on full
                          > time retinue with the local lord or township. Room and board
                          > provided as a "career" archer. A member of a mercenary group
                          > available for the highest bidder? An outlaw living in the greenwood,
                          > making your meat in the King's forest poaching? Narrow the scope and
                          > it will help you hone in on what accessories you will need.
                          >
                          > -Cian
                        • Kinjal of Moravia
                          ... It would be much easier for you if not restricted to middle English but focused on Saxony -- then you could have come to England for a number of reasons.
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 4, 2006
                            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Mike Giovaninni <mgio@...> wrote:

                            It would be much easier for you if not restricted to 'middle
                            English' but focused on Saxony -- then you could have come to
                            England for a number of reasons. Having archers as an essential
                            part of the miltary can be traced back to Charlemagne (9th century
                            where very foot soldier had to carry three arrows to support the
                            archers (have fun doing your own research). In the 12-13th
                            centuries many items of garb and weapons would have been brought
                            home from the Crusades, and influenced by the forced intermix of
                            cultures under Fredrick's I-II. Thus, just because you 'live' in
                            Nottingham doesn't restrict you to 'traditional' English garb and
                            bow. The cloths do not 'make the man' -- and personas either -- and
                            certainly avoid being influenced by Hollywood and popular fiction.

                            kinjal
                            >
                            > Greetings to the list...
                            >
                            > Been lurking for a bit as life has had me firmly in it's
                            clutches... But surfaced am I, and I am seeking knowledge...
                            >
                            > Specifically.. I am seeking any info that will lead me to the
                            production of items that might have been worn by an archer in the
                            13th c., preferably info that would point me to a middle English
                            personnae... Items I am interested in reproducing are as follows:
                            >
                            > Garb appropriate to the middle Brittish Isles
                            > Armor that may have been worn by such an archer in the service
                            of the Crown
                            > Necessities such as quiver, bow (i.e. flat vs. D section
                            longbow), gauntlets, bracers, knives, footwear...
                            >
                            > Any museum, web, or book based resources that might point me in
                            the direction I am travelling would be greatly appreciated...
                            >
                            > Please either respond here, or directly to me at mgio@...
                            >
                            > Many thanks in advance!
                            >
                            > Yours in Service
                            >
                            > Detharlion of Nottingham
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Bring words and photos together (easily) with
                            > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                            Indeed, the 13th century has many interesting aspects for England. As Richard took command of the army besieging Acre, he found men from many countries under
                            Message 13 of 13 , Feb 4, 2006
                              Indeed, the 13th century has many interesting aspects for
                              England. As Richard took command of the army besieging Acre, he
                              found men from many countries under his command. The period saw the
                              rise of banking under the Templars, commercialism and trade under the
                              Italians, and tremendous international travel. Whatever your choice
                              of persona, he would have had opportunity to mix with those of many
                              lands and cultures and obtain a great variety of goods.
                              Carolus

                              At 02:46 AM 2/4/2006, you wrote:

                              >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Mike Giovaninni <mgio@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >It would be much easier for you if not restricted to 'middle
                              >English' but focused on Saxony -- then you could have come to
                              >England for a number of reasons. Having archers as an essential
                              >part of the miltary can be traced back to Charlemagne (9th century
                              >where very foot soldier had to carry three arrows to support the
                              >archers (have fun doing your own research). In the 12-13th
                              >centuries many items of garb and weapons would have been brought
                              >home from the Crusades, and influenced by the forced intermix of
                              >cultures under Fredrick's I-II. Thus, just because you 'live' in
                              >Nottingham doesn't restrict you to 'traditional' English garb and
                              >bow. The cloths do not 'make the man' -- and personas either -- and
                              >certainly avoid being influenced by Hollywood and popular fiction.
                              >
                              >kinjal
                              > >
                              > > Greetings to the list...
                              > >
                              > > Been lurking for a bit as life has had me firmly in it's
                              >clutches... But surfaced am I, and I am seeking knowledge...
                              > >
                              > > Specifically.. I am seeking any info that will lead me to the
                              >production of items that might have been worn by an archer in the
                              >13th c., preferably info that would point me to a middle English
                              >personnae... Items I am interested in reproducing are as follows:
                              > >
                              > > Garb appropriate to the middle Brittish Isles
                              > > Armor that may have been worn by such an archer in the service
                              >of the Crown
                              > > Necessities such as quiver, bow (i.e. flat vs. D section
                              >longbow), gauntlets, bracers, knives, footwear...
                              > >
                              > > Any museum, web, or book based resources that might point me in
                              >the direction I am travelling would be greatly appreciated...
                              > >
                              > > Please either respond here, or directly to me at mgio@...
                              > >
                              > > Many thanks in advance!
                              > >
                              > > Yours in Service
                              > >
                              > > Detharlion of Nottingham
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ---------------------------------
                              > > Bring words and photos together (easily) with
                              > > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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