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Ranging

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  • Kinjal of Moravia
    In any kind of marksmanship there is a difference between sight allignment and sight picture . I was taught that, of the two, allignment was far more
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 1, 2006
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      In any kind of marksmanship there is a difference between 'sight
      allignment' and 'sight picture'. I was taught that, of the two,
      allignment was far more important -- which translates into absolute
      repeatability of form and draw. Playing with finger placement or
      even knock points would seem to be 'going in the wrong direction'
      where skill development is concerned, and I find it difficult to
      believe that in ancient times, people who learned archery at age six
      would pursue any training that would not lead to a 'zen' type goal
      of instinctive sighting. My grandfather shot with his eyes closed --
      I know what is possible.

      I am also certain that evidence can be found that people throughout
      time have played with various techniques in order to offset the
      development of skill only developed through long practice. After
      all, the machine pistol was developed in Germany because they didn't
      have time to train proper marksmansmanship. It works! -- but that
      doesn't make it either 'common', nor desireable for recreationists.

      However -- in medieval times a man survived by his wits, and if the
      only way he could should was using both feet and hands, he would
      have. If he lost a finger he would adjust somehow. So, while
      barring artificial aids to shooting are a legitimate way of
      equalizing the field, any 'natural' style that gets the job done
      should be allowed in competition -- even holding the string in your
      teeth!

      Just a worthless opinion, of course -- someone stole my thumb ring
      and I can't shoot at all now.

      Kinjal
    • Jeffrey Webb
      Greetings Kinjal, You make a very good logical argument here. I don t thik that I can agree with your accuracy though. There are MANY different ways and
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 1, 2006
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        Greetings Kinjal,
        You make a very good logical argument here. I don't thik that I can agree with your accuracy though. There are MANY different ways and diciplines of shooting the bow and all of them have their adherants. There are pluses and minuses to all of the different forms and we have no conclusive proof that one way was practiced by European archers during the middle ages. We have a bit more evidence concerning near eastern and asian archers. Point of Aim is a technique that dates at the latest from the time of the Tudors, (remember, Asham's treatise was from this period when "sport archery" was new)so an argument can be made what was common. But we haven't enough information to really know with certainty. It could just be HIS way. We do know from writers contemporary to period that there were no specific forms practiced by all (we know this by references to "odd forms" pertaining to Welsh archers).
        I myself am an instinctive archer that employs a certain amount of "gap" shooting using Howard Hill's "split vision" method. It's something that I practiced intuitively from the start before I even read about Howard Hill and then studied his technique. Is it period? Beats me!
        We speculate, and that's all we can do.
        Respectfull,
        -Geoffrei


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Kinjal of Moravia
        Sent: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 05:34:46 -0800
        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Ranging

        In any kind of marksmanship there is a difference between 'sight
        allignment' and 'sight picture'. I was taught that, of the two,
        allignment was far more important -- which translates into absolute
        repeatability of form and draw. Playing with finger placement or
        even knock points would seem to be 'going in the wrong direction'
        where skill development is concerned, and I find it difficult to
        believe that in ancient times, people who learned archery at age six
        would pursue any training that would not lead to a 'zen' type goal
        of instinctive sighting. My grandfather shot with his eyes closed --
        I know what is possible.

        I am also certain that evidence can be found that people throughout
        time have played with various techniques in order to offset the
        development of skill only developed through long practice. After
        all, the machine pistol was developed in Germany because they didn't
        have time to train proper marksmansmanship. It works! -- but that
        doesn't make it either 'common', nor desireable for recreationists.

        However -- in medieval times a man survived by his wits, and if the
        only way he could should was using both feet and hands, he would
        have. If he lost a finger he would adjust somehow. So, while
        barring artificial aids to shooting are a legitimate way of
        equalizing the field, any 'natural' style that gets the job done
        should be allowed in competition -- even holding the string in your
        teeth!

        Just a worthless opinion, of course -- someone stole my thumb ring
        and I can't shoot at all now.

        Kinjal






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      • Jeffrey Webb
        Kinjal, I just re-read your last post after reading the many on this issue and I realise that we are in agreement and I criticized your post in error. Please
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 1, 2006
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          Kinjal,
          I just re-read your last post after reading the many on this issue and I realise that we are in agreement and I criticized your post in error. Please accept my apology. I read so many all at once and they seemed to meld together, sorry.
          -Geoffrei


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Kinjal of Moravia
          Sent: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 05:34:46 -0800
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Ranging

          In any kind of marksmanship there is a difference between 'sight
          allignment' and 'sight picture'. I was taught that, of the two,
          allignment was far more important -- which translates into absolute
          repeatability of form and draw. Playing with finger placement or
          even knock points would seem to be 'going in the wrong direction'
          where skill development is concerned, and I find it difficult to
          believe that in ancient times, people who learned archery at age six
          would pursue any training that would not lead to a 'zen' type goal
          of instinctive sighting. My grandfather shot with his eyes closed --
          I know what is possible.

          I am also certain that evidence can be found that people throughout
          time have played with various techniques in order to offset the
          development of skill only developed through long practice. After
          all, the machine pistol was developed in Germany because they didn't
          have time to train proper marksmansmanship. It works! -- but that
          doesn't make it either 'common', nor desireable for recreationists.

          However -- in medieval times a man survived by his wits, and if the
          only way he could should was using both feet and hands, he would
          have. If he lost a finger he would adjust somehow. So, while
          barring artificial aids to shooting are a legitimate way of
          equalizing the field, any 'natural' style that gets the job done
          should be allowed in competition -- even holding the string in your
          teeth!

          Just a worthless opinion, of course -- someone stole my thumb ring
          and I can't shoot at all now.

          Kinjal






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        • WilliamTheArcher@aol.com
          ... Well said. William the Archer ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 3, 2006
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            In a message dated 1/1/06 5:00:26 PM, jrosswebb1@... writes:


            > However -- in medieval times a man survived by his wits, and if the
            > only way he could should was using both feet and hands, he would
            > have.  If he lost a finger he would adjust somehow.  So, while
            > barring artificial aids to shooting are a legitimate way of
            > equalizing the field, any 'natural' style that gets the job done
            > should be allowed in competition -- even holding the string in your
            > teeth!
            >

            Well said.

            William the Archer
            >>>--------------------->


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • WilliamTheArcher@aol.com
            ... Could you take a moment and elaborate on this? William the Archer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 3, 2006
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              In a message dated 1/1/06 4:44:17 PM, jrosswebb1@... writes:


              > I myself am an instinctive archer that employs a certain amount of "gap"
              > shooting using Howard Hill's "split vision" method. It's something that I
              > practiced intuitively from the start before I even read about Howard Hill and then
              > studied his technique. Is it period? Beats me!
              >

              Could you take a moment and elaborate on this?

              William the Archer


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dan Martin
              Hay guy instintive shooting is the true archer. I am a fanatic bowman. I shoot guns but my love are bows. I was taught to shoot instintive by the indian kids
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 5, 2006
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                Hay guy instintive shooting is the true archer.
                I am a fanatic bowman. I shoot guns but my love are bows. I was taught to shoot instintive by the indian kids when I was a boy. I shoot my compound bow on the rare times I shoot them instintive. Reflexes are always faster than sights. I became a sniper because I was taught to shoot a rifle the same way.
                I just started playing with crossbows. Oklahoma if you have a disability you can shoot crossbow. Im starting to enjoy it but I have killed two deer and so far nine hogs with a modified english long bow. My bow isnt quite as long.
                In vietnam I used a 43in bow. only had around 45lb but enough to put a man down.
                Rangers are now using crossbows. Unheard of when I was still in. A few guys like me liked bows. Dont remember ever seeing anyone carry a crossbow. I just bought a horton out of China 250lb. Thats a monster. Im 6'2' 250 and its fun to try to cock without a cheater strop. talked to some SEA folks today and they said strops are not legal in SEA why not ifj only on the safty side.
                Im a bowman but havnt yet warmed up to playing robin hood. Not putting it down just havnt been around it enough yet. Do you guys get really tecnical on what is used on a bow?? ie saftey the old crossbows didnt have saftys but to me thats only common sence. I make knives and staffs for some of the SEA guys. aswell as odds in ins leather wise. If it looks real is that good enough. I have to stats for swords and hand weapons. I dont see any safe way to shoot a bow at a person and not have a risk on injury. I was asked to make nine bows for combat. Theyare getting me the rules but I really dont know if I want to risk my name on this. I have seen guys get hurt with paint ball arrows are such an unknown inity once realised.
                Last anyone looking for bamboo give me a yell. I found a pritty good sorse and his prices are really fair. Im still trying to find asian yell bamboo but not yet. That stuff is almost as nice as steel. thanks for your time....


                WilliamTheArcher@... wrote:

                In a message dated 1/1/06 4:44:17 PM, jrosswebb1@... writes:


                > I myself am an instinctive archer that employs a certain amount of "gap"
                > shooting using Howard Hill's "split vision" method. It's something that I
                > practiced intuitively from the start before I even read about Howard Hill and then
                > studied his technique. Is it period? Beats me!
                >

                Could you take a moment and elaborate on this?

                William the Archer


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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