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Re: [SCA-Archery] Newcomer question - best bow for the money

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  • Lord Caedmon Wilson
    Greetings, Lilion. Is there an archery practice near you? If there is, I recommend making use of a loaner bow until you decide to commit more time and
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 9, 2005
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      Greetings, Lilion.

      Is there an archery practice near you? If there is, I recommend
      making use of a loaner bow until you decide to commit more time and
      resources to archery. Many marshals out there have built up a
      collection of bows they loan out at practices.

      --
      Lord Caedmon Wilson

      Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal

      Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum
      saxum immane mittam.
    • ladylilion
      ... I am in Calontir, in the Shire of Wyvern Cliffe. I haven t checked out neighboring shires, but our group doesn t really have any loner equipment,
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 9, 2005
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        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Lord Caedmon Wilson
        <caedmon.wilson@g...> wrote:
        >
        > Greetings, Lilion.
        >
        > Is there an archery practice near you? If there is, I recommend
        > making use of a loaner bow until you decide to commit more time and
        > resources to archery. Many marshals out there have built up a
        > collection of bows they loan out at practices.
        >
        > --
        > Lord Caedmon Wilson
        >
        > Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal
        >
        > Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum
        > saxum immane mittam.
        >
        I am in Calontir, in the Shire of Wyvern Cliffe. I haven't checked
        out neighboring shires, but our group doesn't really have any loner
        equipment, certianly not with the right weight and length for me.
        There are not a lot of us and even fewer into archery. Our marshal
        is still in training. I have used his bows, but since they are the
        ones he actually uses, I can't keep doing that. At this point, I
        really need a bow of my own. I like the idea of longbows, although I
        hear they are harder to master. The price of the take down bows is
        somewhat compelling. Can I use a takedown for competitions at all?

        If I had the money, I'd probably go with the lower-priced new
        recurves. I especially like this
        one...http://www.archeryweb.com/bonniebowman/recurve.html#victory
        the size and lower pound pull is exactly what I would like. (Okay,
        that it's just really pretty doesn't hurt.) Pity it's about 3x what
        I want to pay. I just am not sure enough of my interest to spend
        that much yet.

        Should I decide to empty the bank account...does anyone have any
        practical experience with the Victory recurve?

        Again, thanks to you all for any help you may give.
        Lilion
      • ladylilion
        I apologise for the bad link in my last post. http://www.archeryweb.com/bonniebowman/recurve.html#victory That should be a good link. Lilion
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 9, 2005
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          I apologise for the bad link in my last post.


          http://www.archeryweb.com/bonniebowman/recurve.html#victory

          That should be a good link.
          Lilion
        • Lord Caedmon Wilson
          If money is no object, have you considred a crossbow as your bow of choice? *grin* -- Lord Caedmon Wilson Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal Catapultam habeo.
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 9, 2005
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            If money is no object, have you considred a crossbow as your bow of choice?

            *grin*

            --
            Lord Caedmon Wilson

            Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal

            Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum
            saxum immane mittam.
          • ladylilion
            Actually, yes. Unfortunately, money is THE object! LOL Lilion ... choice?
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 9, 2005
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              Actually, yes. Unfortunately, money is THE object! LOL

              Lilion

              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Lord Caedmon Wilson
              <caedmon.wilson@g...> wrote:
              >
              > If money is no object, have you considred a crossbow as your bow of
              choice?
              >
              > *grin*
              >
              > --
              > Lord Caedmon Wilson
              >
              > Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal
              >
              > Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum
              > saxum immane mittam.
              >
            • James Koch
              Lilion, ... At risk of ruffling a few feathers, I d go with the longbow or any period design before I d buy a modern recurve. It might take a bit longer to
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 9, 2005
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                Lilion,
                >
                At risk of ruffling a few feathers, I'd go with the longbow or any period
                design before I'd buy a modern recurve. It might take a bit longer to
                master, but learning to shoot well is work either way. So if you are going
                to invest the money and time, go with the most authentic equipment you can
                afford. Also, if you shoot a 30# bow without too much difficulty, you
                might want to consider buying one drawing 35#. Of course if you have long
                arms, you may already be getting more than 30# out of the bows you are
                shooting. Purchase good arrows. Buy at least 2 dozen matched arrows at one
                time. When you are starting out you will lose and break them fairly quickly.
                >
                Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                >
                >
                > At 11:23 AM 11/9/2005, you wrote:
                >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Lord Caedmon Wilson
                ><caedmon.wilson@g...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Greetings, Lilion.
                > >
                > > Is there an archery practice near you? If there is, I recommend
                > > making use of a loaner bow until you decide to commit more time and
                > > resources to archery. Many marshals out there have built up a
                > > collection of bows they loan out at practices.
                > >
                > > --
                > > Lord Caedmon Wilson
                > >
                > > Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal
                > >
                > > Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum
                > > saxum immane mittam.
                > >
                >I am in Calontir, in the Shire of Wyvern Cliffe. I haven't checked
                >out neighboring shires, but our group doesn't really have any loner
                >equipment, certianly not with the right weight and length for me.
                >There are not a lot of us and even fewer into archery. Our marshal
                >is still in training. I have used his bows, but since they are the
                >ones he actually uses, I can't keep doing that. At this point, I
                >really need a bow of my own. I like the idea of longbows, although I
                >hear they are harder to master. The price of the take down bows is
                >somewhat compelling. Can I use a takedown for competitions at all?
                >
                >If I had the money, I'd probably go with the lower-priced new
                >recurves. I especially like this
                >one...http://www.archeryweb.com/bonniebowman/recurve.html#victory
                >the size and lower pound pull is exactly what I would like. (Okay,
                >that it's just really pretty doesn't hurt.) Pity it's about 3x what
                >I want to pay. I just am not sure enough of my interest to spend
                >that much yet.
                >
                >Should I decide to empty the bank account...does anyone have any
                >practical experience with the Victory recurve?
                >
                >Again, thanks to you all for any help you may give.
                >Lilion
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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              • Cian of Storvik
                Best bows for the money... I also would encourage you to go traditional as Gladius has. The bow you become accustomed to shooting is the one you will shoot
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 9, 2005
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                  Best bows for the money...
                  I also would encourage you to go traditional as Gladius has. The bow
                  you become accustomed to shooting is the one you will shoot well.
                  Ragi and others (myself included) will tell you that good arrows are
                  more important then the bow. (There are a few REALLY bad bows out
                  there)

                  You will get a great deal of satisfaction from shooting a
                  traditional bow. As far as suggestions for inexpensive bows;
                  You might be able to find a decent bow at a thrift store or flea
                  market, but as you are not exactly trained what to look for, you
                  will most likely be buying a piece of junk if you go that route
                  (twisted limbs, delaminations, and cracked risers are all very
                  common with yard sale purchased bows.) People stack their bows in
                  corners, pile junk on top of them, and generally use and abuse them,
                  then cast them aside before trying to sell you it.
                  As far as new, lowest in price is Woodbows.com and Fairebows (period
                  or near period style long bows). They sell bows that are made of oak
                  for $35-$100. But I warn you that oak is a notoriously poor wood for
                  a bow because it doesn't have the proper elasticity required to
                  prevent string follow or fracture from the slightest overdraw. Some
                  people highly recommend them, but my guess is that they've never
                  shot a decent longbow. Comparatively oak also imparts very bad hand
                  shock upon release and cast is not as good as finer woods like ashe,
                  yew and lemonwood.
                  The next in price I would suggest is PSE Buckeye. This is a take-
                  down recurve bow (the limbs come off and make it very portable).
                  This is a modern style, non-traditional, entry level recurve. They
                  cost in the $80-$105 range and come in weights upto 35 lbs. from
                  WomenWhoHunt.com. The benefit of recurves is that they tend to be a
                  bit kinder on poor releases and do not have the same stacking issues
                  that longbows have.
                  Above the Buckeye is Krymson Archer Bows. I believe he's on this
                  list in fact, and sells traditional bows similar to Woodbows and
                  Fairbows, but he makes them out of hickory. Hickory still imparts a
                  great deal of hand-shock as oak, but the bows are sturdier and don't
                  require backings. I've shot a $55 self hickory flat limbed american
                  style bow (shelfless) , and it shot as well as my $400 english bow
                  (but with a bit more handshock). More importantly, he sells several
                  recurves which are very attractive in appearance. I believe his bows
                  start around $100 and are upwards of $200. But this falls within
                  your price requirement.

                  Next up in price (Or about the same) from there is the Samick SKB
                  (Samick Korean Bow). This is another recurve, but it is shelfless
                  and so I believe it counts as a traditional bow in some Kingdoms.
                  The Samick SKB costs around $150 from most retailers (maybe a little
                  less from WHH), and has had good reviews from what I've read.
                  (Basically people are surprised a $150 bow can shoot so well and
                  look so good). The SKB is made of laminations of Fiberglass,
                  rosewood and walnut, and has the advantages; since it is fiberglass,
                  of not succumbing to string follow, cold/hot temps, and drop off
                  from extented holds, etc. It further has the benefits of being a
                  recurve, which all tends to eliminate stacking, and improve release.
                  SKB's come in 30,40 and 50# draw weights at 28".
                  The only negative with the SKB (or any traditional bow I've
                  mentioned above) is that it is very important to buy the right spine
                  of arrows for your draw length and bow weight.
                  Anyhow, those are my recommendations.
                  -Cian the opinionated
                • jameswolfden
                  While oak is not a premium bow wood like yew or osage orange, I would disagree with notoriously poor. Much of this depends on designing the right bow for the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 9, 2005
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                    While oak is not a premium bow wood like yew or osage orange, I would
                    disagree with notoriously poor. Much of this depends on designing the right
                    bow for the right type of wood. The english style longbow works best with
                    yew. Even lemonwood or ash is dramatically inferior to it. They are just
                    cheaper and easier to work with. Okay, looks like lemonwood is only cheaper
                    in the UK not the US.

                    I have built two very good oak boardbows that had little string follow or
                    handshock. Neither had any backing. I built a 50 pound bow for myself and a
                    much lighter bow for my wife. I don't know how well they would work on
                    distance shooting but on Royal Rounds they work great. The heavier bow did
                    have to be retired after two years when the string cut up into the bow at the
                    nock.

                    The other bow is about 26 pounds at my drawlength. It is 72" long which helps
                    reduce the handshock. As mentioned, it is a flatbow design which helps
                    reduce the string follow compared to the cross-section of an english longbow.
                    String follow is about 1.5 inches I am guessing. At 30 yards, I have the tip of
                    arrow in line with the bottom of red so I can't really complain about the cast.
                    One of the problems I encountered with the 50 pounder was that I was aiming
                    in the grass for 40, 30, and 20 until I shifted to a different anchor.

                    Recently I purchased a takedown longbow made of bamboo-backed IPE. I
                    heard great things about IPE from a number of bowyers. Great cast, fast bow.
                    For the first couple of hundred shots, the bow was a sweet shooter. But after
                    that I noticed a number of problems including some delamination near the
                    handle on the lower limb. I fixed it up but the lower limb took a serious string
                    follow robbing me of cast, power, and consistency. I borrowed my wife's bow
                    to finish off the season.

                    I have had some success with ash and look forward to trying hickory, elm, and
                    yew some day but my most successful bows have been with oak. I think the
                    real problem with some of the low cost bows is not the wood but rather the
                    time (and shortcuts) taken to get the bow out at an affordable cost. The catch
                    side of that is that paying more does not guarantee higher quality.

                    James Wolfden



                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Cian of Storvik" <firespiter@y...>
                    wrote:
                    >

                    > for $35-$100. But I warn you that oak is a notoriously poor wood for
                    > a bow because it doesn't have the proper elasticity required to
                    > prevent string follow or fracture from the slightest overdraw. Some
                    > people highly recommend them, but my guess is that they've never
                    > shot a decent longbow. Comparatively oak also imparts very bad hand
                    > shock upon release and cast is not as good as finer woods like ashe,
                    > yew and lemonwood.
                  • John edgerton
                    What is IPE ? Jon On Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 05:30 PM, jameswolfden wrote: misc deleted ... misc deleted
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 9, 2005
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                      What is "IPE"?

                      Jon
                      On Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 05:30 PM, jameswolfden wrote:
                      misc deleted
                      >
                      > Recently I purchased a takedown longbow made of bamboo-backed IPE. I
                      > heard great things about IPE from a number of bowyers. Great cast,
                      > fast bow.
                      > For the first couple of hundred shots, the bow was a sweet shooter.
                      > But after
                      > that I noticed a number of problems including some delamination near
                      > the
                      > handle on the lower limb. I fixed it up but the lower limb took a
                      > serious string
                      > follow robbing me of cast, power, and consistency. I borrowed my
                      > wife's bow
                      > to finish off the season.
                      misc deleted

                      > James Wolfden
                    • Dan Martin
                      I keep hearing you folks talk down oak. I own two white oak bows that I have been shooting and killing game with for over 20yrs. I dont shoot english long bow
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 9, 2005
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                        I keep hearing you folks talk down oak. I own two white oak bows that I have been shooting and killing game with for over 20yrs. I dont shoot english long bow but wood quality is wood quality. I shoot a self bow and a home made recurve.
                        if you are in an area like Oklahoma or Texas where it gets really hot and hard cold with a lot of moisture oak is really hard to beat. I have shattered bows over the years but never an oak bow. Lemonwood is a beuitiful bow and I will not argue that point like mine. but oak is tough and can take abuse. Carried my short oak to Samalia and Iraq. My son has it there now.
                        Not attacking but if you talk to people in the SW you will find we are proud of oak bows. Yew I have never had grate luck with. Osage is just to high down here.
                        You will find when it come to bows everyone has an opionion and most of us are wrong.
                        You folks can help me also maybe. Im a die hard long and self bow man. Been shooting them for over 35yrs now. In process of buying a Renigade Compound bow. Off shoot of a Martin but you can ajust string. Are they worth the money I was going PSE but not fond of plastic.
                        Only reason Im going to the compound bow going back into compittion just for fun so I can get my SAL boys to shooting and Im going to shoot long bow and compound.
                        Shoot wise nuthing is better than a hunting shoot. Moving targets and everyone has fun you dont have to be all that good because you are shooting at moc ups of game and not circles. Had the hardest time getting my boys to stop shooting at circles. If your just target shooting n big deal folks but if you want to hunt get away from the circles they will kill your shot. You will look for bullseyes on the deer. God forgot to put them on ha.
                        Dont let me scare you off few things are as much fun as shooting a bow. carried one for 21yrs in the military and had a ball with it my whole carrer. Plus the bonus of being quiet.
                        Im in the process of making a heavy crossbow right now. After christmas we are going to make a battering ram and a catapult. We have a 20.000 milimeter range to shoot on. Artillery range so we wont hurt anything aside from a few rattlesnakes and to late in the year for that.
                        I dont write in much but i do enjoy reading. I was really afraid for awhile that my sport was dieing. For a long time we didnt see young folks coming up and taking up the sport. Be it primitive compound compitition or speed target it doesnt matter we keep archcery alive. thank all of you for that.
                        blackwaterincorp@...
                        dan martin
                        jameswolfden <jameswolfden@...> wrote:
                        While oak is not a premium bow wood like yew or osage orange, I would
                        disagree with notoriously poor. Much of this depends on designing the right
                        bow for the right type of wood. The english style longbow works best with
                        yew. Even lemonwood or ash is dramatically inferior to it. They are just
                        cheaper and easier to work with. Okay, looks like lemonwood is only cheaper
                        in the UK not the US.

                        I have built two very good oak boardbows that had little string follow or
                        handshock. Neither had any backing. I built a 50 pound bow for myself and a
                        much lighter bow for my wife. I don't know how well they would work on
                        distance shooting but on Royal Rounds they work great. The heavier bow did
                        have to be retired after two years when the string cut up into the bow at the
                        nock.

                        The other bow is about 26 pounds at my drawlength. It is 72" long which helps
                        reduce the handshock. As mentioned, it is a flatbow design which helps
                        reduce the string follow compared to the cross-section of an english longbow.
                        String follow is about 1.5 inches I am guessing. At 30 yards, I have the tip of
                        arrow in line with the bottom of red so I can't really complain about the cast.
                        One of the problems I encountered with the 50 pounder was that I was aiming
                        in the grass for 40, 30, and 20 until I shifted to a different anchor.

                        Recently I purchased a takedown longbow made of bamboo-backed IPE. I
                        heard great things about IPE from a number of bowyers. Great cast, fast bow.
                        For the first couple of hundred shots, the bow was a sweet shooter. But after
                        that I noticed a number of problems including some delamination near the
                        handle on the lower limb. I fixed it up but the lower limb took a serious string
                        follow robbing me of cast, power, and consistency. I borrowed my wife's bow
                        to finish off the season.

                        I have had some success with ash and look forward to trying hickory, elm, and
                        yew some day but my most successful bows have been with oak. I think the
                        real problem with some of the low cost bows is not the wood but rather the
                        time (and shortcuts) taken to get the bow out at an affordable cost. The catch
                        side of that is that paying more does not guarantee higher quality.

                        James Wolfden



                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Cian of Storvik"
                        wrote:
                        >

                        > for $35-$100. But I warn you that oak is a notoriously poor wood for
                        > a bow because it doesn't have the proper elasticity required to
                        > prevent string follow or fracture from the slightest overdraw. Some
                        > people highly recommend them, but my guess is that they've never
                        > shot a decent longbow. Comparatively oak also imparts very bad hand
                        > shock upon release and cast is not as good as finer woods like ashe,
                        > yew and lemonwood.





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                      • jameswolfden
                        IPE is a Brazilian Walnut. It is mainly used for flooring. James
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 9, 2005
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                          IPE is a Brazilian Walnut. It is mainly used for flooring.

                          James

                          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, John edgerton
                          <sirjon1@p...> wrote:
                          >
                          > What is "IPE"?
                          >
                          > Jon
                        • roguenad2000
                          ... Well, seeing as I run Fairebows, I feel I am qualified to talk about what we normaly stock :) Yes, I do carry Red Oak english long bows. And I have to
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 11, 2005
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                            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Cian of Storvik"
                            <firespiter@y...> wrote:

                            > As far as new, lowest in price is Woodbows.com and Fairebows
                            > (period or near period style long bows). They sell bows that
                            > are made of oak for $35-$100. But I warn you that oak is a
                            > notoriously poor wood for a bow because it doesn't have the
                            > proper elasticity required to prevent string follow or fracture
                            > from the slightest overdraw. Some people highly recommend them,
                            > but my guess is that they've never shot a decent longbow.

                            Well, seeing as I run Fairebows, I feel I am qualified to talk about
                            what we normaly stock :)

                            Yes, I do carry Red Oak english long bows. And I have to agree with
                            you that they are not my first choice, but since people keep asking
                            for them I normaly have a few in stock. It seems to be people that
                            buy these are only looking at the price tag.

                            My Best selling period bows are Hickory Selfbows. They go for $150,
                            That is finshed with a leather wrap on the grip, and a dacron
                            Flemish twist string. They are avalible in a variety of weights.
                            The most popular seem to be in the 30# - 45# range.

                            I also carry more expensive bows. I have hickory backed ash,
                            Bubinga, and Ipe English long bows just to name a few. Not to
                            mention a wide selection of Bamboo backed flat bows.

                            My personal bow is a Bambo backed Ossage flat bow.

                            I have to agree with Cain, Go with a period bow. If you are going to
                            learn to shoot and you want to be doing period shooting, you might
                            as well learn to shoot with Period equipment.

                            Nad
                          • ladylilion
                            I wanted to thank everyone who offered their input. As I ve discovered that I am left-eye dominant but extremely right handed, I ve decided to just buy a
                            Message 13 of 15 , Nov 12, 2005
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                              I wanted to thank everyone who offered their input. As I've
                              discovered that I am left-eye dominant but extremely right handed,
                              I've decided to just buy a cheap little fiberglass longbow that can be
                              shot with either hand to practice with. I never even knew about eye
                              dominance, I've always shot right handed. But then again, my aim
                              stinks, so maybe that's the problem. ;-) In any event, I'll certainly
                              keep all the advice in mind when I get a better bow a few months down
                              the line. Thanks again, you were all very helpful.
                              Lilion
                            • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                              This is a fine choice for someone who wants to experiment with the sport first. Carolus ... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG
                              Message 14 of 15 , Nov 13, 2005
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                                This is a fine choice for someone who wants to experiment with the sport first.
                                Carolus

                                At 06:15 PM 11/12/2005, you wrote:

                                >I wanted to thank everyone who offered their input. As I've
                                >discovered that I am left-eye dominant but extremely right handed,
                                >I've decided to just buy a cheap little fiberglass longbow that can be
                                >shot with either hand to practice with. I never even knew about eye
                                >dominance, I've always shot right handed. But then again, my aim
                                >stinks, so maybe that's the problem. ;-) In any event, I'll certainly
                                >keep all the advice in mind when I get a better bow a few months down
                                >the line. Thanks again, you were all very helpful.
                                >Lilion
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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