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Re: Can you shoot well enough?

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  • dauid_morgant_dinefwr
    Hello to the list, I shoot a 45# recurve---up to 65 yards I have found no difference in grouping with a 10 grain variance. As mentioned in other posts, at 20-
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 4, 2005
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      Hello to the list,

      I shoot a 45# recurve---up to 65 yards I have found no difference in
      grouping with a 10 grain variance. As mentioned in other posts, at 20-
      25 grain +/- I notice a 3-4" spread variance at 40 yards--none below
      30yds. In addition, past 65 yards I've notice a considerable impact
      created by fletching size and grain variation.

      Example, at 80 yards an arrow with +20 grains and 5.5" fletch will
      drop as much as 24 inches when compared to a 20 grain lighter arrow
      with 4" fletching.

      I wouldn't think a 2.5 grain +/- seems a bit unnecessary.

      Dauid



      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@s...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Now how can a 10 grain diff make such a difference? That's a full
      12 inches
      > or more between gold and outside. Maybe a longer ranges but at 40
      yards?
      >
      > Ragi
      >
      >
      > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-
      Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of Frederick Fenters
      > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:53 PM
      > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [SCA-Archery] RE: Can you shoot well enough?
      >
      > I don't know about the hand bow people, but it can make considerable
      > difference with a crossbow. 10 grains makes a huge difference at
      clout
      > distances. At shorter ranges, it can be the difference between a
      bullseye
      > and a non-scorer.
      >
      > Padraig
      >
      >
      >
      > Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:13:26 -0500
      > From: "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@s...>
      > Subject: Can you shoot well enough?
      >
      > Heya
      >
      > I am presently working on a set of my best match grade arrows for a
      customer
      > who insists on a +/- 2.5 grain spread in weight. fun really, lost
      sof
      > tapering and sanding to get them all just so.
      >
      > My question has always been can a traditional shooter, in or out of
      sca
      > shoots, shoot well enough and consistently enough to see the
      difference
      > between a 5 grain spread or a ten grain spread? What is the point
      to being
      > this exacting if you cant see the diff? It makes the arrows a lot
      more
      > expensive to be sure and seems a waste of effort.
      >
      > sure if you are shooting with a modern setup, balance beams and
      sights,
      > maybe on a 90 m target you will see a difference if you are good
      enough but
      > really....
      >
      > can you honestly see the difference? I cant.
      >
      > Ragi
      >
      >
      > ragi@b...
      >
      > www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Nest verch Tangwistel
      i don t see that much of a difference between shafts that close. Then again when I make a set of arrows I always shoot them all a couple times. there always
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 4, 2005
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        i don't see that much of a difference between shafts that close. Then
        again when I make a set of arrows I always shoot them all a couple times.
        there always seems to be a couple in the set which don't want to group
        with the others anyway. Even when they match beautifully. I put that down
        to some sort of grain anamoly in the wood, or maybe an odd feather. So if
        there are unknowns involved that make those erratic arrows, the natural
        varients between shafts is going to swallow up a grain difference that
        little.

        Nest

        --- dauid_morgant_dinefwr <dunvegann@...> wrote:

        > Hello to the list,
        >
        > I shoot a 45# recurve---up to 65 yards I have found no difference in
        > grouping with a 10 grain variance. As mentioned in other posts, at 20-
        > 25 grain +/- I notice a 3-4" spread variance at 40 yards--none below
        > 30yds. In addition, past 65 yards I've notice a considerable impact
        > created by fletching size and grain variation.
        >
        > Example, at 80 yards an arrow with +20 grains and 5.5" fletch will
        > drop as much as 24 inches when compared to a 20 grain lighter arrow
        > with 4" fletching.
        >
        > I wouldn't think a 2.5 grain +/- seems a bit unnecessary.
        >
        > Dauid
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@s...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Now how can a 10 grain diff make such a difference? That's a full
        > 12 inches
        > > or more between gold and outside. Maybe a longer ranges but at 40
        > yards?
        > >
        > > Ragi
        > >
        > >
        > > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-
        > Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
        > > Behalf Of Frederick Fenters
        > > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:53 PM
        > > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [SCA-Archery] RE: Can you shoot well enough?
        > >
        > > I don't know about the hand bow people, but it can make considerable
        > > difference with a crossbow. 10 grains makes a huge difference at
        > clout
        > > distances. At shorter ranges, it can be the difference between a
        > bullseye
        > > and a non-scorer.
        > >
        > > Padraig
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:13:26 -0500
        > > From: "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@s...>
        > > Subject: Can you shoot well enough?
        > >
        > > Heya
        > >
        > > I am presently working on a set of my best match grade arrows for a
        > customer
        > > who insists on a +/- 2.5 grain spread in weight. fun really, lost
        > sof
        > > tapering and sanding to get them all just so.
        > >
        > > My question has always been can a traditional shooter, in or out of
        > sca
        > > shoots, shoot well enough and consistently enough to see the
        > difference
        > > between a 5 grain spread or a ten grain spread? What is the point
        > to being
        > > this exacting if you cant see the diff? It makes the arrows a lot
        > more
        > > expensive to be sure and seems a waste of effort.
        > >
        > > sure if you are shooting with a modern setup, balance beams and
        > sights,
        > > maybe on a 90 m target you will see a difference if you are good
        > enough but
        > > really....
        > >
        > > can you honestly see the difference? I cant.
        > >
        > > Ragi
        > >
        > >
        > > ragi@b...
        > >
        > > www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > ______________________________________________________________________
        > __
        > >
        > ______________________________________________________________________
        > __
        > >
        > >
        > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
        > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
        > >
        > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
        > list]
        > >
        > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        > ----
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        > ----
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
        > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
        > >
        > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
        > list]
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
        > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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        > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
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        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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      • Scott B. Jaqua
        There comes a point, however, even if you can t actually see the difference in performance, that it is still worth it to have the best possible equipment. This
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 4, 2005
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          There comes a point, however, even if you can't actually see the
          difference in performance, that it is still worth it to have the best
          possible equipment. This game we play has a very important mental
          aspect. I helps to know that your equipment is performing if possible
          better then you possibly can. Confidence in your gear, will translate in
          more overall confidence. That will allow you to shoot the best you can
          on any given day. It will let you know that any variance in performance
          is in fact in you. And it will help you recover from problem shots
          better (no worry that you have to keep track and check that arrow later).

          There is also the aging athlete factor. A book I saw speaks of aging in
          sports. One of the things it suggests is that you have a deep wallet
          then your younger competition. So use that to partially offset their
          youth. Buy the best equipment you can, or buy the tools to make and
          maintain the best equipment you can. I won't say that works for
          everyone. But I have to believe on average it's true.

          Njall
        • James Koch
          Nest, ... I also wonder how much changes in humidity and temperature effect our shafts from day to day. My guess is they absorb and lose water at different
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 4, 2005
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            Nest,
            >
            I also wonder how much changes in humidity and temperature effect our
            shafts from day to day. My guess is they absorb and lose water at
            different rates and may also warp a bit as a consequence. I agree with
            Siegfried regarding crossbow bolts. This year for the first time I weighed
            all of my bolts on a lab scale. I then divided them into four distinct
            groups depending on their weights. On the butt end of each shaft I placed
            no mark on the lightest, one mark on the next lightest, two on the heavier
            shafts and three on the heaviest. When I shoot I select one group or the
            other. Sometimes when necessary I'll include a shaft from a close weight
            bunch but I won't for example combine a no mark with a three mark or even a
            one and three. When shooting Royal Rounds I got no real point advantage at
            40 yards where I should have expected to see it. I did get my scores up a
            bit but that was by working on my speed.
            >
            Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
            >
            >
            >At 12:47 PM 11/4/2005, you wrote:
            >i don't see that much of a difference between shafts that close. Then
            >again when I make a set of arrows I always shoot them all a couple times.
            >there always seems to be a couple in the set which don't want to group
            >with the others anyway. Even when they match beautifully. I put that down
            >to some sort of grain anamoly in the wood, or maybe an odd feather. So if
            >there are unknowns involved that make those erratic arrows, the natural
            >varients between shafts is going to swallow up a grain difference that
            >little.
            >
            >Nest
            >
            >--- dauid_morgant_dinefwr <dunvegann@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Hello to the list,
            > >
            > > I shoot a 45# recurve---up to 65 yards I have found no difference in
            > > grouping with a 10 grain variance. As mentioned in other posts, at 20-
            > > 25 grain +/- I notice a 3-4" spread variance at 40 yards--none below
            > > 30yds. In addition, past 65 yards I've notice a considerable impact
            > > created by fletching size and grain variation.
            > >
            > > Example, at 80 yards an arrow with +20 grains and 5.5" fletch will
            > > drop as much as 24 inches when compared to a 20 grain lighter arrow
            > > with 4" fletching.
            > >
            > > I wouldn't think a 2.5 grain +/- seems a bit unnecessary.
            > >
            > > Dauid
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@s...>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Now how can a 10 grain diff make such a difference? That's a full
            > > 12 inches
            > > > or more between gold and outside. Maybe a longer ranges but at 40
            > > yards?
            > > >
            > > > Ragi
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-
            > > Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
            > > > Behalf Of Frederick Fenters
            > > > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:53 PM
            > > > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Subject: [SCA-Archery] RE: Can you shoot well enough?
            > > >
            > > > I don't know about the hand bow people, but it can make considerable
            > > > difference with a crossbow. 10 grains makes a huge difference at
            > > clout
            > > > distances. At shorter ranges, it can be the difference between a
            > > bullseye
            > > > and a non-scorer.
            > > >
            > > > Padraig
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:13:26 -0500
            > > > From: "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@s...>
            > > > Subject: Can you shoot well enough?
            > > >
            > > > Heya
            > > >
            > > > I am presently working on a set of my best match grade arrows for a
            > > customer
            > > > who insists on a +/- 2.5 grain spread in weight. fun really, lost
            > > sof
            > > > tapering and sanding to get them all just so.
            > > >
            > > > My question has always been can a traditional shooter, in or out of
            > > sca
            > > > shoots, shoot well enough and consistently enough to see the
            > > difference
            > > > between a 5 grain spread or a ten grain spread? What is the point
            > > to being
            > > > this exacting if you cant see the diff? It makes the arrows a lot
            > > more
            > > > expensive to be sure and seems a waste of effort.
            > > >
            > > > sure if you are shooting with a modern setup, balance beams and
            > > sights,
            > > > maybe on a 90 m target you will see a difference if you are good
            > > enough but
            > > > really....
            > > >
            > > > can you honestly see the difference? I cant.
            > > >
            > > > Ragi
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ragi@b...
            > > >
            > > > www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > ______________________________________________________________________
            > > __
            > > >
            > > ______________________________________________________________________
            > > __
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
            > > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
            > > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
            > > >
            > > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
            > > list]
            > > >
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            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
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            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
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          • Robert Lauderdale
            Just saw this on Ebay--42 cedar arrows in various stages of completion from an estate sale. Current bid is $15.50. Might be woth a look to those who can
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 4, 2005
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              Just saw this on Ebay--42 cedar arrows in various stages of
              completion from an estate sale. Current bid is $15.50. Might be woth a
              look to those who can finish them up. Ebay Item number: 7193062027

              Chidiock
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