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Re: [SCA-Archery] RE: Can you shoot well enough?

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  • georgeledbury@aol.com
    It depends a lot on the bow, it will make a lot more difference with a light draw target recurve than it does on a high performance heavy draw bow. Gawin
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 3, 2005
      It depends a lot on the bow, it will make a lot more difference with a light
      draw target recurve than it does on a high performance heavy draw bow.
      Gawin


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Rj Bachner
      Now how can a 10 grain diff make such a difference? That s a full 12 inches or more between gold and outside. Maybe a longer ranges but at 40 yards? Ragi From:
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 3, 2005
        Now how can a 10 grain diff make such a difference? That's a full 12 inches
        or more between gold and outside. Maybe a longer ranges but at 40 yards?

        Ragi


        From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Frederick Fenters
        Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:53 PM
        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] RE: Can you shoot well enough?

        I don't know about the hand bow people, but it can make considerable
        difference with a crossbow. 10 grains makes a huge difference at clout
        distances. At shorter ranges, it can be the difference between a bullseye
        and a non-scorer.

        Padraig



        Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:13:26 -0500
        From: "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@...>
        Subject: Can you shoot well enough?

        Heya

        I am presently working on a set of my best match grade arrows for a customer
        who insists on a +/- 2.5 grain spread in weight. fun really, lost sof
        tapering and sanding to get them all just so.

        My question has always been can a traditional shooter, in or out of sca
        shoots, shoot well enough and consistently enough to see the difference
        between a 5 grain spread or a ten grain spread? What is the point to being
        this exacting if you cant see the diff? It makes the arrows a lot more
        expensive to be sure and seems a waste of effort.

        sure if you are shooting with a modern setup, balance beams and sights,
        maybe on a 90 m target you will see a difference if you are good enough but
        really....

        can you honestly see the difference? I cant.

        Ragi


        ragi@...

        www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      • dauid_morgant_dinefwr
        Hello to the list, I shoot a 45# recurve---up to 65 yards I have found no difference in grouping with a 10 grain variance. As mentioned in other posts, at 20-
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 4, 2005
          Hello to the list,

          I shoot a 45# recurve---up to 65 yards I have found no difference in
          grouping with a 10 grain variance. As mentioned in other posts, at 20-
          25 grain +/- I notice a 3-4" spread variance at 40 yards--none below
          30yds. In addition, past 65 yards I've notice a considerable impact
          created by fletching size and grain variation.

          Example, at 80 yards an arrow with +20 grains and 5.5" fletch will
          drop as much as 24 inches when compared to a 20 grain lighter arrow
          with 4" fletching.

          I wouldn't think a 2.5 grain +/- seems a bit unnecessary.

          Dauid



          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@s...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Now how can a 10 grain diff make such a difference? That's a full
          12 inches
          > or more between gold and outside. Maybe a longer ranges but at 40
          yards?
          >
          > Ragi
          >
          >
          > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-
          Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Frederick Fenters
          > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:53 PM
          > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [SCA-Archery] RE: Can you shoot well enough?
          >
          > I don't know about the hand bow people, but it can make considerable
          > difference with a crossbow. 10 grains makes a huge difference at
          clout
          > distances. At shorter ranges, it can be the difference between a
          bullseye
          > and a non-scorer.
          >
          > Padraig
          >
          >
          >
          > Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:13:26 -0500
          > From: "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@s...>
          > Subject: Can you shoot well enough?
          >
          > Heya
          >
          > I am presently working on a set of my best match grade arrows for a
          customer
          > who insists on a +/- 2.5 grain spread in weight. fun really, lost
          sof
          > tapering and sanding to get them all just so.
          >
          > My question has always been can a traditional shooter, in or out of
          sca
          > shoots, shoot well enough and consistently enough to see the
          difference
          > between a 5 grain spread or a ten grain spread? What is the point
          to being
          > this exacting if you cant see the diff? It makes the arrows a lot
          more
          > expensive to be sure and seems a waste of effort.
          >
          > sure if you are shooting with a modern setup, balance beams and
          sights,
          > maybe on a 90 m target you will see a difference if you are good
          enough but
          > really....
          >
          > can you honestly see the difference? I cant.
          >
          > Ragi
          >
          >
          > ragi@b...
          >
          > www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • Nest verch Tangwistel
          i don t see that much of a difference between shafts that close. Then again when I make a set of arrows I always shoot them all a couple times. there always
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 4, 2005
            i don't see that much of a difference between shafts that close. Then
            again when I make a set of arrows I always shoot them all a couple times.
            there always seems to be a couple in the set which don't want to group
            with the others anyway. Even when they match beautifully. I put that down
            to some sort of grain anamoly in the wood, or maybe an odd feather. So if
            there are unknowns involved that make those erratic arrows, the natural
            varients between shafts is going to swallow up a grain difference that
            little.

            Nest

            --- dauid_morgant_dinefwr <dunvegann@...> wrote:

            > Hello to the list,
            >
            > I shoot a 45# recurve---up to 65 yards I have found no difference in
            > grouping with a 10 grain variance. As mentioned in other posts, at 20-
            > 25 grain +/- I notice a 3-4" spread variance at 40 yards--none below
            > 30yds. In addition, past 65 yards I've notice a considerable impact
            > created by fletching size and grain variation.
            >
            > Example, at 80 yards an arrow with +20 grains and 5.5" fletch will
            > drop as much as 24 inches when compared to a 20 grain lighter arrow
            > with 4" fletching.
            >
            > I wouldn't think a 2.5 grain +/- seems a bit unnecessary.
            >
            > Dauid
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@s...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Now how can a 10 grain diff make such a difference? That's a full
            > 12 inches
            > > or more between gold and outside. Maybe a longer ranges but at 40
            > yards?
            > >
            > > Ragi
            > >
            > >
            > > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-
            > Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
            > > Behalf Of Frederick Fenters
            > > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:53 PM
            > > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [SCA-Archery] RE: Can you shoot well enough?
            > >
            > > I don't know about the hand bow people, but it can make considerable
            > > difference with a crossbow. 10 grains makes a huge difference at
            > clout
            > > distances. At shorter ranges, it can be the difference between a
            > bullseye
            > > and a non-scorer.
            > >
            > > Padraig
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:13:26 -0500
            > > From: "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@s...>
            > > Subject: Can you shoot well enough?
            > >
            > > Heya
            > >
            > > I am presently working on a set of my best match grade arrows for a
            > customer
            > > who insists on a +/- 2.5 grain spread in weight. fun really, lost
            > sof
            > > tapering and sanding to get them all just so.
            > >
            > > My question has always been can a traditional shooter, in or out of
            > sca
            > > shoots, shoot well enough and consistently enough to see the
            > difference
            > > between a 5 grain spread or a ten grain spread? What is the point
            > to being
            > > this exacting if you cant see the diff? It makes the arrows a lot
            > more
            > > expensive to be sure and seems a waste of effort.
            > >
            > > sure if you are shooting with a modern setup, balance beams and
            > sights,
            > > maybe on a 90 m target you will see a difference if you are good
            > enough but
            > > really....
            > >
            > > can you honestly see the difference? I cant.
            > >
            > > Ragi
            > >
            > >
            > > ragi@b...
            > >
            > > www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > ______________________________________________________________________
            > __
            > >
            > ______________________________________________________________________
            > __
            > >
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            > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
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            > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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            > list]
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            > >
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          • Scott B. Jaqua
            There comes a point, however, even if you can t actually see the difference in performance, that it is still worth it to have the best possible equipment. This
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 4, 2005
              There comes a point, however, even if you can't actually see the
              difference in performance, that it is still worth it to have the best
              possible equipment. This game we play has a very important mental
              aspect. I helps to know that your equipment is performing if possible
              better then you possibly can. Confidence in your gear, will translate in
              more overall confidence. That will allow you to shoot the best you can
              on any given day. It will let you know that any variance in performance
              is in fact in you. And it will help you recover from problem shots
              better (no worry that you have to keep track and check that arrow later).

              There is also the aging athlete factor. A book I saw speaks of aging in
              sports. One of the things it suggests is that you have a deep wallet
              then your younger competition. So use that to partially offset their
              youth. Buy the best equipment you can, or buy the tools to make and
              maintain the best equipment you can. I won't say that works for
              everyone. But I have to believe on average it's true.

              Njall
            • James Koch
              Nest, ... I also wonder how much changes in humidity and temperature effect our shafts from day to day. My guess is they absorb and lose water at different
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 4, 2005
                Nest,
                >
                I also wonder how much changes in humidity and temperature effect our
                shafts from day to day. My guess is they absorb and lose water at
                different rates and may also warp a bit as a consequence. I agree with
                Siegfried regarding crossbow bolts. This year for the first time I weighed
                all of my bolts on a lab scale. I then divided them into four distinct
                groups depending on their weights. On the butt end of each shaft I placed
                no mark on the lightest, one mark on the next lightest, two on the heavier
                shafts and three on the heaviest. When I shoot I select one group or the
                other. Sometimes when necessary I'll include a shaft from a close weight
                bunch but I won't for example combine a no mark with a three mark or even a
                one and three. When shooting Royal Rounds I got no real point advantage at
                40 yards where I should have expected to see it. I did get my scores up a
                bit but that was by working on my speed.
                >
                Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                >
                >
                >At 12:47 PM 11/4/2005, you wrote:
                >i don't see that much of a difference between shafts that close. Then
                >again when I make a set of arrows I always shoot them all a couple times.
                >there always seems to be a couple in the set which don't want to group
                >with the others anyway. Even when they match beautifully. I put that down
                >to some sort of grain anamoly in the wood, or maybe an odd feather. So if
                >there are unknowns involved that make those erratic arrows, the natural
                >varients between shafts is going to swallow up a grain difference that
                >little.
                >
                >Nest
                >
                >--- dauid_morgant_dinefwr <dunvegann@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Hello to the list,
                > >
                > > I shoot a 45# recurve---up to 65 yards I have found no difference in
                > > grouping with a 10 grain variance. As mentioned in other posts, at 20-
                > > 25 grain +/- I notice a 3-4" spread variance at 40 yards--none below
                > > 30yds. In addition, past 65 yards I've notice a considerable impact
                > > created by fletching size and grain variation.
                > >
                > > Example, at 80 yards an arrow with +20 grains and 5.5" fletch will
                > > drop as much as 24 inches when compared to a 20 grain lighter arrow
                > > with 4" fletching.
                > >
                > > I wouldn't think a 2.5 grain +/- seems a bit unnecessary.
                > >
                > > Dauid
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@s...>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Now how can a 10 grain diff make such a difference? That's a full
                > > 12 inches
                > > > or more between gold and outside. Maybe a longer ranges but at 40
                > > yards?
                > > >
                > > > Ragi
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-
                > > Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                > > > Behalf Of Frederick Fenters
                > > > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:53 PM
                > > > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Subject: [SCA-Archery] RE: Can you shoot well enough?
                > > >
                > > > I don't know about the hand bow people, but it can make considerable
                > > > difference with a crossbow. 10 grains makes a huge difference at
                > > clout
                > > > distances. At shorter ranges, it can be the difference between a
                > > bullseye
                > > > and a non-scorer.
                > > >
                > > > Padraig
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:13:26 -0500
                > > > From: "Rj Bachner" <ragiwarmbear@s...>
                > > > Subject: Can you shoot well enough?
                > > >
                > > > Heya
                > > >
                > > > I am presently working on a set of my best match grade arrows for a
                > > customer
                > > > who insists on a +/- 2.5 grain spread in weight. fun really, lost
                > > sof
                > > > tapering and sanding to get them all just so.
                > > >
                > > > My question has always been can a traditional shooter, in or out of
                > > sca
                > > > shoots, shoot well enough and consistently enough to see the
                > > difference
                > > > between a 5 grain spread or a ten grain spread? What is the point
                > > to being
                > > > this exacting if you cant see the diff? It makes the arrows a lot
                > > more
                > > > expensive to be sure and seems a waste of effort.
                > > >
                > > > sure if you are shooting with a modern setup, balance beams and
                > > sights,
                > > > maybe on a 90 m target you will see a difference if you are good
                > > enough but
                > > > really....
                > > >
                > > > can you honestly see the difference? I cant.
                > > >
                > > > Ragi
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ragi@b...
                > > >
                > > > www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > ______________________________________________________________________
                > > __
                > > >
                > > ______________________________________________________________________
                > > __
                > > >
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              • Robert Lauderdale
                Just saw this on Ebay--42 cedar arrows in various stages of completion from an estate sale. Current bid is $15.50. Might be woth a look to those who can
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 4, 2005
                  Just saw this on Ebay--42 cedar arrows in various stages of
                  completion from an estate sale. Current bid is $15.50. Might be woth a
                  look to those who can finish them up. Ebay Item number: 7193062027

                  Chidiock
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