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Re: [SCA-Archery] Crossbow Period Shoots

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  • Carolus von Eulenhorst
    Yes, the first is known as the Dresden Bird and used the German Eagle as the target. I have been looking into this. The popinjay is a fun shoot and one we
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 15, 2005
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      Yes, the first is known as the "Dresden Bird" and used the German
      Eagle as the target. I have been looking into this. The popinjay is
      a fun shoot and one we have done at GWW in the past. we hope to do
      it again. As we have a 5 acre range available to us with virtually
      unlimited downrange, safety is not a problem.

      Carolus

      At 11:28 PM 10/14/2005, you wrote:


      > Sir Jon,
      >
      > One shoot I have always wanted to do, was the one with the Phoenix
      >(or similar large bird) as a target. The bird was made up of pieces
      >joined together, yet designed to come 'off' with a solid strike from a
      >crossbow. Hopefully designed so only one or two pieces could be shot
      >off at a time. (--- thought,,, try placing the outer feathers behind
      >the inner ones, so the support the inner rows. This would make it
      >tougher to shoot off large chunks---) Marked on the back of each piece
      >was the title of a prize. Often, the Head or Heart, both being well
      >protected, and unable to come off untill most of the other pieces were
      >gone, had the grand prize marked on the back of it. These shoots were
      >generaly fundraisers, as I recall. (Germanic in origin?) With each
      >shot requiring a set amount of currency, gradualy increasing as the
      >feathers were nocked off, thusly coordinating with the better prizes.
      >
      > This was traditionaly a shoot for only crossbows, often with draw
      >weight limits. Sometimes crossbows were provided for those without,
      >and to help even the field. Blunted bolts work well. Oh, and number
      >the pieces, with a diagram of they they go, to aid in getting the
      >prizes to the correct shooter. (numbers could be used exclusive of
      >prize titles)
      >
      > Now, I read this, like, 10 years ago, in 'The Grey Goose Wing', I
      >think, as well as a few others.
      >
      > I did a "Poppin' Jay" shoot once. It was very popular, and I had fun
      >hosting it. If you were to do this, I would Heartily recommend that
      >the crossbows and bolts be provided, and not allow the shooters to use
      >thier own. As a high powered crossbow can get a blunted flu-flu bolt
      >to go a bit farther than you may desire. For safety, only allow a
      >narrow shooting range, say, 60 degree arc. And don't forget to mark 2
      > distances from the pole. One minimum range, and one max range. Too
      >close, and the bolts may come back into the shooters, too far, and the
      >bolts may leave the designated area, even with flu-flus.
      >
      > Again, this was traditionaly a crossbow shoot, and is still done in a
      >few towns in Europe. It was not uncommon for this to be a fundraiser,
      >either. But, for those towns that were required to maintain troops
      >skilled in crossbow, the shoot required no outlay of moneys from the
      >shooters (again, as I recall). I also saw this the same books.
      >
      > I hope to be able to attend the event.
      >
      > Cain, Atenveldt
      >
      > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, John edgerton <sirjon1@p...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I am considering running a crossbow only competition next year,
      > > possibly at AnTir's 40YC.. I do not want to put the furthest target
      > > too far from the shooting line. But, would like to stretch the ability
      > > of the shooters a bit. So, I would like to hear from as many crossbow
      > > shooters as possible as to what the maximum range is that they can
      > > shoot accurately. For example keeping all the bolts on a 60 cm face.
      > > If you could also give the poundage and type of prod for your crossbow,
      > > or any related other information, it would be most helpful.
      > >
      > > Another part of the competition may include a period crossbow face
      > > target, which is being researched, that will be most interesting to
      > > shoot. It includes negative as well as positive points, as well as the
      > > chance to lose a turn in shooting if you miss the center by too much.
      > > No timed ends. Just shooting as accurately as possible, which is a
      > > major quality of a crossbow.
      > >
      > > Thank you for any help you can give.
      > >
      > > Jon
      > >
      > >
      > > Sir Jon Fitz-Rauf, O.L., O.P., West, Mists, Esfenn
      > > An Archer must be: Keen of eye, steady of hand, fleet of foot and
      > > cunning of mind.
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • John edgerton
      Lord Cain When you did your Poppin Jay shoot how did construct the pole and how high was it? What I am working on for a crossbow shoot is based on some
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 16, 2005
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        Lord Cain

        When you did your Poppin Jay shoot how did construct the pole and how
        high was it?

        What I am working on for a crossbow shoot is based on some medieval
        Italian crossbow
        competitions. One is rather like a dart board with the center having
        positive points and the outer areas having negative points. Another is
        one that some of you may have seen photos of from most current Italian
        medieval style crossbow competitions. It has an approximately six
        inch scoring area and the most center bolt is the winner. There will
        be no timed ends. The crossbow is a precision weapon not a rapid fire
        one. This will remove the advantage the lighter draw and faster to
        cock, sca crossbows have over the heavier crossbows when there is a
        timed end. Front or rear sights will not be allowed. And resting the
        crossbow directly upon a support, such as the Italian shooting benches
        will be allowed. And if the range allows, there will be a longer range
        shoot at 80 or more yards.

        My thanks to those of you that posted information on the accurate range
        of your crossbows.

        I am waiting for the translations of the Italian rules before I get
        into detail on the rules for the 40YC competition.

        Plan ahead and closely match a set of bolts and practice really tight
        groups. :-)

        Jon

        On Friday, October 14, 2005, at 11:28 PM, Lord Cain Saethydd wrote:

        >
        > Sir Jon,
        >
        > One shoot I have always wanted to do, was the one with the Phoenix
        > (or similar large bird) as a target. The bird was made up of pieces
        > joined together, yet designed to come 'off' with a solid strike from a
        > crossbow. Hopefully designed so only one or two pieces could be shot
        > off at a time. (--- thought,,, try placing the outer feathers behind
        > the inner ones, so the support the inner rows. This would make it
        > tougher to shoot off large chunks---) Marked on the back of each piece
        > was the title of a prize. Often, the Head or Heart, both being well
        > protected, and unable to come off untill most of the other pieces were
        > gone, had the grand prize marked on the back of it. These shoots were
        > generaly fundraisers, as I recall. (Germanic in origin?) With each
        > shot requiring a set amount of currency, gradualy increasing as the
        > feathers were nocked off, thusly coordinating with the better prizes.
        >
        > This was traditionaly a shoot for only crossbows, often with draw
        > weight limits. Sometimes crossbows were provided for those without,
        > and to help even the field. Blunted bolts work well. Oh, and number
        > the pieces, with a diagram of they they go, to aid in getting the
        > prizes to the correct shooter. (numbers could be used exclusive of
        > prize titles)
        >
        > Now, I read this, like, 10 years ago, in 'The Grey Goose Wing', I
        > think, as well as a few others.
        >
        > I did a "Poppin' Jay" shoot once. It was very popular, and I had fun
        > hosting it. If you were to do this, I would Heartily recommend that
        > the crossbows and bolts be provided, and not allow the shooters to use
        > thier own. As a high powered crossbow can get a blunted flu-flu bolt
        > to go a bit farther than you may desire. For safety, only allow a
        > narrow shooting range, say, 60 degree arc. And don't forget to mark 2
        > distances from the pole. One minimum range, and one max range. Too
        > close, and the bolts may come back into the shooters, too far, and the
        > bolts may leave the designated area, even with flu-flus.
        >
        > Again, this was traditionaly a crossbow shoot, and is still done in a
        > few towns in Europe. It was not uncommon for this to be a fundraiser,
        > either. But, for those towns that were required to maintain troops
        > skilled in crossbow, the shoot required no outlay of moneys from the
        > shooters (again, as I recall). I also saw this the same books.
        >
        > I hope to be able to attend the event.
        >
        > Cain, Atenveldt
        >
        > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, John edgerton <sirjon1@p...>
        > wrote:
        >>
        >> I am considering running a crossbow only competition next year,
        >> possibly at AnTir's 40YC.. I do not want to put the furthest target
        >> too far from the shooting line. But, would like to stretch the
        >> ability
        >> of the shooters a bit. So, I would like to hear from as many crossbow
        >> shooters as possible as to what the maximum range is that they can
        >> shoot accurately. For example keeping all the bolts on a 60 cm face.
        >> If you could also give the poundage and type of prod for your
        >> crossbow,
        >> or any related other information, it would be most helpful.
        >>
        >> Another part of the competition may include a period crossbow face
        >> target, which is being researched, that will be most interesting to
        >> shoot. It includes negative as well as positive points, as well as
        >> the
        >> chance to lose a turn in shooting if you miss the center by too much.
        >> No timed ends. Just shooting as accurately as possible, which is a
        >> major quality of a crossbow.
        >>
        >> Thank you for any help you can give.
        >>
        >> Jon
        >>
        >>
        >> Sir Jon Fitz-Rauf, O.L., O.P., West, Mists, Esfenn
        >> An Archer must be: Keen of eye, steady of hand, fleet of foot and
        >> cunning of mind.
      • John edgerton
        I saw, briefly a while back, a book on the history of targets. It had many pictures of early targets. However, it seemed to be mostly gun targets. Has
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 16, 2005
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          I saw, briefly a while back, a book on the history of targets. It had
          many pictures of early targets. However, it seemed to be mostly gun
          targets. Has anyone a copy of this book or know of it? If so, I would
          like to know if it covers much of archery targets, particularly
          crossbow targets. Also, what is the name of the book?

          Thanks for any help you can give.

          Jon
        • Mike O'Toole
          ... If it is Braun s History of Targets of which you speak them you remember correctly, it is mostly gun targets though if I remember correctly there was some
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 16, 2005
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            John edgerton wrote:
            > I saw, briefly a while back, a book on the history of targets. It had
            > many pictures of early targets. However, it seemed to be mostly gun
            > targets. Has anyone a copy of this book or know of it? If so, I would
            > like to know if it covers much of archery targets, particularly
            > crossbow targets. Also, what is the name of the book?
            >
            > Thanks for any help you can give.
            >
            > Jon

            If it is Braun's History of Targets of which you speak them you remember
            correctly, it is mostly gun targets though if I remember correctly there
            was some crossover with late period crossbow targets.

            I have a copy of it on my shelf. Ask away.

            Michael O'Byrne
          • John edgerton
            ... Many thanks Jon ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 17, 2005
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              > It is the crossbow targets that I am interested in. About how many
              > examples of them are there? I am wondering if it is worth buying the
              > book. Could you generally describe some of the crossbow targets?

              Many thanks

              Jon



              On Sunday, October 16, 2005, at 10:32 PM, Mike O'Toole wrote:
              > If it is Braun's History of Targets of which you speak them you
              > remember
              > correctly, it is mostly gun targets though if I remember correctly
              > there
              > was some crossover with late period crossbow targets.
              >
              > I have a copy of it on my shelf. Ask away.
              >
              > Michael O'Byrne


              > John edgerton wrote:
              >> I saw, briefly a while back, a book on the history of targets. It had
              >> many pictures of early targets. However, it seemed to be mostly gun
              >> targets. Has anyone a copy of this book or know of it? If so, I
              >> would
              >> like to know if it covers much of archery targets, particularly
              >> crossbow targets. Also, what is the name of the book?
              >>
              >> Thanks for any help you can give.
              >>
              >> Jon


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John edgerton
              Are you sure of the title and author? I could not find them on Amazon. Thanks Jon
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 17, 2005
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                Are you sure of the title and author? I could not find them on Amazon.

                Thanks

                Jon
                On Sunday, October 16, 2005, at 10:32 PM, Mike O'Toole wrote:
                >
                > If it is Braun's History of Targets of which you speak them you
                > remember
                > correctly, it is mostly gun targets though if I remember correctly
                > there
                > was some crossover with late period crossbow targets.
                >
                > I have a copy of it on my shelf. Ask away.
                >
                > Michael O'Byrne
              • mike_otoole_2001
                Sorry about that, I misremembered. Correct info is: Braun, Anne. Historical Targets; Royden Publishing 1983 My personal favourite book search engine is
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 18, 2005
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                  Sorry about that, I misremembered. Correct info is:

                  Braun, Anne.
                  Historical Targets; Royden Publishing 1983

                  My personal favourite book search engine is Abebooks:

                  http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?bx=off&sts=t&ds=30&bi=0&an=Braun&tn=Historical+Targets&sortby=2

                  usually better prices than amazon and booksellers from around the world.

                  Happy hunting,

                  Mike O'Toole

                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, John edgerton <sirjon1@p...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Are you sure of the title and author? I could not find them on
                  Amazon.
                  >
                  > Thanks
                  >
                  > Jon
                  > On Sunday, October 16, 2005, at 10:32 PM, Mike O'Toole wrote:
                  > >
                  > > If it is Braun's History of Targets of which you speak them you
                  > > remember
                  > > correctly, it is mostly gun targets though if I remember correctly
                  > > there
                  > > was some crossover with late period crossbow targets.
                  > >
                  > > I have a copy of it on my shelf. Ask away.
                  > >
                  > > Michael O'Byrne
                  >
                • John edgerton
                  Great. I found it. Thanks Jon
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 18, 2005
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                    Great. I found it.

                    Thanks

                    Jon
                    On Tuesday, October 18, 2005, at 11:23 AM, mike_otoole_2001 wrote:

                    > Sorry about that, I misremembered. Correct info is:
                    >
                    > Braun, Anne.
                    > Historical Targets; Royden Publishing 1983
                    >
                    > My personal favourite book search engine is Abebooks:
                    >
                    > http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/
                    > SearchResults?bx=off&sts=t&ds=30&bi=0&an=Braun&tn=Historical+Targets&so
                    > rtby=2
                    >
                    > usually better prices than amazon and booksellers from around the
                    > world.
                    >
                    > Happy hunting,
                    >
                    > Mike O'Toole
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