Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Broken arrows, part the 632nd

Expand Messages
  • Eric Francis
    I m really impressed by the range of imagination on the uses for broken arrows. Pegging furniture? Herb stakes? I really need to be more creative when it comes
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 14, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      I'm really impressed by the range of imagination on the uses for
      broken arrows. Pegging furniture? Herb stakes? I really need to be
      more creative when it comes to broken shafts.

      But, unless I missed it, there's one period solution for an arrow
      broken close to the tip that I didn't see mentioned: Footing. I'm
      almost positive Ascham mentions footed shafts in "Toxophilus," and
      there's a very thorough article on how to foot arrows (both two and
      four splice) in "The Traditional Bowyer's Bible," Vol. 3 I believe.

      I've fixed a couple of arrows this way using walnut; I found that
      while it looks really, really good, they didn't fly so well.
      Probably more my lack of practice than the choice of wood. However,
      I have a bunch of purpleheart blanks sitting and waiting for me to
      foot an entire set of ash shafts, and we'll see how that does.

      Peregrine Fairchylde




      ______________________________________________________
      Yahoo! for Good
      Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
      http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
    • Scott B. Jaqua
      ... And there is also a pictorial how-to section of my web-site on how to foot an arrow with the two splice technique. http://sjaqua.tripod.com/footed.htm
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 14, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        >But, unless I missed it, there's one period solution for an arrow
        >broken close to the tip that I didn't see mentioned: Footing. I'm
        >almost positive Ascham mentions footed shafts in "Toxophilus," and
        >there's a very thorough article on how to foot arrows (both two and
        >four splice) in "The Traditional Bowyer's Bible," Vol. 3 I believe.
        >
        >
        And there is also a pictorial "how-to" section of my web-site on how to
        foot an arrow with the two splice technique.

        http://sjaqua.tripod.com/footed.htm

        Njall
      • Carolus von Eulenhorst
        This could be due to changes in the arrows spine and/or balance point. While footed arrows look really spiff, they are engineering and ballistic nightmares
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 14, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          This could be due to changes in the arrows' spine and/or balance
          point. While footed arrows look really spiff, they are engineering
          and ballistic nightmares requiring lots of work and empirical
          experience to make them fly properly.
          Carolus

          At 10:24 AM 9/14/2005, you wrote:


          >I've fixed a couple of arrows this way using walnut; I found that
          >while it looks really, really good, they didn't fly so well.
          >Probably more my lack of practice than the choice of wood. However,
          >I have a bunch of purpleheart blanks sitting and waiting for me to
          >foot an entire set of ash shafts, and we'll see how that does.
          >
          >Peregrine Fairchylde


          --
          No virus found in this outgoing message.
          Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
          Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
        • Rj Bachner
          Heya Ya know I have made a lot of footed arrows as repairs and I have not found them to be nightmares as you put it. A short hardwood foot on the end of a soft
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 15, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Heya

            Ya know I have made a lot of footed arrows as repairs and I have not found
            them to be nightmares as you put it. A short hardwood foot on the end of a
            soft wood arrow makes them fly a little better really than they did before.
            I spose it moved the FOC a little forward which is really not a bad thing.

            Now mind you I have been making arrows for years and maybe that translates
            into a practical sense of whats right. I definitely do not recommend that a
            newbie try footing arrows unless he has some good woodworking xp.

            If you make a footed arrow with a long foot, say total lenth of foot > 1/3
            of the arrow length then you start to mess with flight dynamics some, you
            can change the spine of the arrow rather a lot, it increases the mass weight
            of the arrow significantly , this I think might be what you were talking
            about now that I think about it.

            The key is to make the foots short if you can when repairing arrows of known
            performance.

            another idea is to foot the arrow with the same wood that the arrows are
            made of. This will prevent messing up the flight dynamics.

            The guys at tradgang came up with a good way to make repaired arrows with a
            single point foot. I suggest folks look that up if they are interested in
            fixing their broken arrows simply..

            Ragi

            www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca

            -----Original Message-----
            From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
            Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:42 AM
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Broken arrows, part the 632nd

            This could be due to changes in the arrows' spine and/or balance
            point. While footed arrows look really spiff, they are engineering
            and ballistic nightmares requiring lots of work and empirical
            experience to make them fly properly.
            Carolus

            At 10:24 AM 9/14/2005, you wrote:


            >I've fixed a couple of arrows this way using walnut; I found that
            >while it looks really, really good, they didn't fly so well.
            >Probably more my lack of practice than the choice of wood. However,
            >I have a bunch of purpleheart blanks sitting and waiting for me to
            >foot an entire set of ash shafts, and we'll see how that does.
            >
            >Peregrine Fairchylde


            --
            No virus found in this outgoing message.
            Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
            Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005




            ---8<---------------------------------------------
            Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
            Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/

            [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Carolus von Eulenhorst
            You are pointing out number of the things I was referring to. Many folks making footed arrows use a heavy hardwood for the point and make it long for looks.
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 15, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              You are pointing out number of the things I was referring to. Many
              folks making footed arrows use a heavy hardwood for the point and
              make it long for looks. They also don't match grain direction, and
              don't compensate for the added weight of the glue which can soak into
              the wood. Your experience both with woodworking and arrow making has
              stood you in good stead, giving you knowledge many don't have. My
              experiences with footing were for display and looks and shooting the
              arrows proved disastrous (but I never took the time to work out the
              details and I hadn't had the experience with arrow making I now
              have) Simply replacing broken arrows was cheaper than the time it
              took to learn the skills and then repair arrows.
              Carolus

              At 04:58 AM 9/15/2005, you wrote:

              >Heya
              >
              >Ya know I have made a lot of footed arrows as repairs and I have not found
              >them to be nightmares as you put it. A short hardwood foot on the end of a
              >soft wood arrow makes them fly a little better really than they did before.
              >I spose it moved the FOC a little forward which is really not a bad thing.
              >
              >Now mind you I have been making arrows for years and maybe that translates
              >into a practical sense of whats right. I definitely do not recommend that a
              >newbie try footing arrows unless he has some good woodworking xp.
              >
              >If you make a footed arrow with a long foot, say total lenth of foot > 1/3
              >of the arrow length then you start to mess with flight dynamics some, you
              >can change the spine of the arrow rather a lot, it increases the mass weight
              >of the arrow significantly , this I think might be what you were talking
              >about now that I think about it.
              >
              >The key is to make the foots short if you can when repairing arrows of known
              >performance.
              >
              >another idea is to foot the arrow with the same wood that the arrows are
              >made of. This will prevent messing up the flight dynamics.
              >
              >The guys at tradgang came up with a good way to make repaired arrows with a
              >single point foot. I suggest folks look that up if they are interested in
              >fixing their broken arrows simply..
              >
              >Ragi
              >
              >www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca
              >
              >-----Original Message-----
              >From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
              >Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
              >Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:42 AM
              >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Broken arrows, part the 632nd
              >
              >This could be due to changes in the arrows' spine and/or balance
              >point. While footed arrows look really spiff, they are engineering
              >and ballistic nightmares requiring lots of work and empirical
              >experience to make them fly properly.
              >Carolus
              >
              >At 10:24 AM 9/14/2005, you wrote:
              >
              >
              > >I've fixed a couple of arrows this way using walnut; I found that
              > >while it looks really, really good, they didn't fly so well.
              > >Probably more my lack of practice than the choice of wood. However,
              > >I have a bunch of purpleheart blanks sitting and waiting for me to
              > >foot an entire set of ash shafts, and we'll see how that does.
              > >
              > >Peregrine Fairchylde
              >
              >
              >--
              >No virus found in this outgoing message.
              >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
              >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >---8<---------------------------------------------
              >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
              >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
              >
              >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >---8<---------------------------------------------
              >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
              >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
              >
              >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >--
              >No virus found in this incoming message.
              >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
              >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005


              --
              No virus found in this outgoing message.
              Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
              Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
            • Rj Bachner
              Yeah I thought of that after a I posted it. It was early. And I am off coffee. ;) but if folks wanna learn to fot an arrow I can lead them to some really good
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 15, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Yeah I thought of that after a I posted it. It was early. And I am off
                coffee. ;) but if folks wanna learn to fot an arrow I can lead them to some
                really good online build alongs that should help.

                Ragi

                -----Original Message-----
                From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
                Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:13 AM
                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Broken arrows, part the 632nd

                You are pointing out number of the things I was referring to. Many
                folks making footed arrows use a heavy hardwood for the point and
                make it long for looks. They also don't match grain direction, and
                don't compensate for the added weight of the glue which can soak into
                the wood. Your experience both with woodworking and arrow making has
                stood you in good stead, giving you knowledge many don't have. My
                experiences with footing were for display and looks and shooting the
                arrows proved disastrous (but I never took the time to work out the
                details and I hadn't had the experience with arrow making I now
                have) Simply replacing broken arrows was cheaper than the time it
                took to learn the skills and then repair arrows.
                Carolus

                At 04:58 AM 9/15/2005, you wrote:

                >Heya
                >
                >Ya know I have made a lot of footed arrows as repairs and I have not found
                >them to be nightmares as you put it. A short hardwood foot on the end of a
                >soft wood arrow makes them fly a little better really than they did before.
                >I spose it moved the FOC a little forward which is really not a bad thing.
                >
                >Now mind you I have been making arrows for years and maybe that translates
                >into a practical sense of whats right. I definitely do not recommend that a
                >newbie try footing arrows unless he has some good woodworking xp.
                >
                >If you make a footed arrow with a long foot, say total lenth of foot > 1/3
                >of the arrow length then you start to mess with flight dynamics some, you
                >can change the spine of the arrow rather a lot, it increases the mass
                weight
                >of the arrow significantly , this I think might be what you were talking
                >about now that I think about it.
                >
                >The key is to make the foots short if you can when repairing arrows of
                known
                >performance.
                >
                >another idea is to foot the arrow with the same wood that the arrows are
                >made of. This will prevent messing up the flight dynamics.
                >
                >The guys at tradgang came up with a good way to make repaired arrows with a
                >single point foot. I suggest folks look that up if they are interested in
                >fixing their broken arrows simply..
                >
                >Ragi
                >
                >www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca
                >
                >-----Original Message-----
                >From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                >Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
                >Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:42 AM
                >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Broken arrows, part the 632nd
                >
                >This could be due to changes in the arrows' spine and/or balance
                >point. While footed arrows look really spiff, they are engineering
                >and ballistic nightmares requiring lots of work and empirical
                >experience to make them fly properly.
                >Carolus
                >
                >At 10:24 AM 9/14/2005, you wrote:
                >
                >
                > >I've fixed a couple of arrows this way using walnut; I found that
                > >while it looks really, really good, they didn't fly so well.
                > >Probably more my lack of practice than the choice of wood. However,
                > >I have a bunch of purpleheart blanks sitting and waiting for me to
                > >foot an entire set of ash shafts, and we'll see how that does.
                > >
                > >Peregrine Fairchylde
                >
                >
                >--
                >No virus found in this outgoing message.
                >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >---8<---------------------------------------------
                >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                >
                >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >---8<---------------------------------------------
                >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                >
                >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >--
                >No virus found in this incoming message.
                >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005


                --
                No virus found in this outgoing message.
                Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005




                ---8<---------------------------------------------
                Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/

                [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]

                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                Definitely, It s a terrific skill to have and every arrowmaker should at least try it. But they should know going in how tough it will be to get their early
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 15, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Definitely, It's a terrific skill to have and every arrowmaker should
                  at least try it. But they should know going in how tough it will be
                  to get their early efforts to fly right so they don't get disillusioned.
                  Carolus

                  At 07:17 AM 9/15/2005, you wrote:

                  >Yeah I thought of that after a I posted it. It was early. And I am off
                  >coffee. ;) but if folks wanna learn to fot an arrow I can lead them to some
                  >really good online build alongs that should help.
                  >
                  >Ragi
                  >
                  >-----Original Message-----
                  >From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                  >Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
                  >Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:13 AM
                  >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Broken arrows, part the 632nd
                  >
                  >You are pointing out number of the things I was referring to. Many
                  >folks making footed arrows use a heavy hardwood for the point and
                  >make it long for looks. They also don't match grain direction, and
                  >don't compensate for the added weight of the glue which can soak into
                  >the wood. Your experience both with woodworking and arrow making has
                  >stood you in good stead, giving you knowledge many don't have. My
                  >experiences with footing were for display and looks and shooting the
                  >arrows proved disastrous (but I never took the time to work out the
                  >details and I hadn't had the experience with arrow making I now
                  >have) Simply replacing broken arrows was cheaper than the time it
                  >took to learn the skills and then repair arrows.
                  >Carolus
                  >
                  >At 04:58 AM 9/15/2005, you wrote:
                  >
                  > >Heya
                  > >
                  > >Ya know I have made a lot of footed arrows as repairs and I have not found
                  > >them to be nightmares as you put it. A short hardwood foot on the end of a
                  > >soft wood arrow makes them fly a little better really than they did before.
                  > >I spose it moved the FOC a little forward which is really not a bad thing.
                  > >
                  > >Now mind you I have been making arrows for years and maybe that translates
                  > >into a practical sense of whats right. I definitely do not recommend that a
                  > >newbie try footing arrows unless he has some good woodworking xp.
                  > >
                  > >If you make a footed arrow with a long foot, say total lenth of foot > 1/3
                  > >of the arrow length then you start to mess with flight dynamics some, you
                  > >can change the spine of the arrow rather a lot, it increases the mass
                  >weight
                  > >of the arrow significantly , this I think might be what you were talking
                  > >about now that I think about it.
                  > >
                  > >The key is to make the foots short if you can when repairing arrows of
                  >known
                  > >performance.
                  > >
                  > >another idea is to foot the arrow with the same wood that the arrows are
                  > >made of. This will prevent messing up the flight dynamics.
                  > >
                  > >The guys at tradgang came up with a good way to make repaired arrows with a
                  > >single point foot. I suggest folks look that up if they are interested in
                  > >fixing their broken arrows simply..
                  > >
                  > >Ragi
                  > >
                  > >www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca
                  > >
                  > >-----Original Message-----
                  > >From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > >Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
                  > >Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:42 AM
                  > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Broken arrows, part the 632nd
                  > >
                  > >This could be due to changes in the arrows' spine and/or balance
                  > >point. While footed arrows look really spiff, they are engineering
                  > >and ballistic nightmares requiring lots of work and empirical
                  > >experience to make them fly properly.
                  > >Carolus
                  > >
                  > >At 10:24 AM 9/14/2005, you wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >I've fixed a couple of arrows this way using walnut; I found that
                  > > >while it looks really, really good, they didn't fly so well.
                  > > >Probably more my lack of practice than the choice of wood. However,
                  > > >I have a bunch of purpleheart blanks sitting and waiting for me to
                  > > >foot an entire set of ash shafts, and we'll see how that does.
                  > > >
                  > > >Peregrine Fairchylde
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >--
                  > >No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                  > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                  > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                  > >
                  > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                  > >
                  > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                  > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                  > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                  > >
                  > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                  > >
                  > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >--
                  > >No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
                  >
                  >
                  >--
                  >No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >---8<---------------------------------------------
                  >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                  >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                  >
                  >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >---8<---------------------------------------------
                  >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                  >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                  >
                  >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >--
                  >No virus found in this incoming message.
                  >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005


                  --
                  No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
                • Rj Bachner
                  Yep. If ya go to tradgang.com and go to the resources page there is a pretty good selection of how toos there and footing arrows on one of em. There is that
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 15, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Yep. If ya go to tradgang.com and go to the resources page there is a pretty
                    good selection of how toos there and footing arrows on one of em. There is
                    that single point foot that I spoke of .

                    www.tradgang.com

                    But I also don't know if it is fair of you to talk about how hard it is to
                    get this to work. I think you might scare some people off. It can be
                    difficult but with some instructions and a cpl good tools it is not hard.
                    Jst time consumeing.

                    Ragi

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
                    Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:32 AM
                    To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Broken arrows, part the 632nd

                    Definitely, It's a terrific skill to have and every arrowmaker should
                    at least try it. But they should know going in how tough it will be
                    to get their early efforts to fly right so they don't get disillusioned.
                    Carolus

                    At 07:17 AM 9/15/2005, you wrote:

                    >Yeah I thought of that after a I posted it. It was early. And I am off
                    >coffee. ;) but if folks wanna learn to fot an arrow I can lead them to
                    some
                    >really good online build alongs that should help.
                    >
                    >Ragi
                    >
                    >-----Original Message-----
                    >From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                    >Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
                    >Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:13 AM
                    >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Broken arrows, part the 632nd
                    >
                    >You are pointing out number of the things I was referring to. Many
                    >folks making footed arrows use a heavy hardwood for the point and
                    >make it long for looks. They also don't match grain direction, and
                    >don't compensate for the added weight of the glue which can soak into
                    >the wood. Your experience both with woodworking and arrow making has
                    >stood you in good stead, giving you knowledge many don't have. My
                    >experiences with footing were for display and looks and shooting the
                    >arrows proved disastrous (but I never took the time to work out the
                    >details and I hadn't had the experience with arrow making I now
                    >have) Simply replacing broken arrows was cheaper than the time it
                    >took to learn the skills and then repair arrows.
                    >Carolus
                    >
                    >At 04:58 AM 9/15/2005, you wrote:
                    >
                    > >Heya
                    > >
                    > >Ya know I have made a lot of footed arrows as repairs and I have not
                    found
                    > >them to be nightmares as you put it. A short hardwood foot on the end of
                    a
                    > >soft wood arrow makes them fly a little better really than they did
                    before.
                    > >I spose it moved the FOC a little forward which is really not a bad
                    thing.
                    > >
                    > >Now mind you I have been making arrows for years and maybe that
                    translates
                    > >into a practical sense of whats right. I definitely do not recommend that
                    a
                    > >newbie try footing arrows unless he has some good woodworking xp.
                    > >
                    > >If you make a footed arrow with a long foot, say total lenth of foot >
                    1/3
                    > >of the arrow length then you start to mess with flight dynamics some, you
                    > >can change the spine of the arrow rather a lot, it increases the mass
                    >weight
                    > >of the arrow significantly , this I think might be what you were talking
                    > >about now that I think about it.
                    > >
                    > >The key is to make the foots short if you can when repairing arrows of
                    >known
                    > >performance.
                    > >
                    > >another idea is to foot the arrow with the same wood that the arrows are
                    > >made of. This will prevent messing up the flight dynamics.
                    > >
                    > >The guys at tradgang came up with a good way to make repaired arrows with
                    a
                    > >single point foot. I suggest folks look that up if they are interested
                    in
                    > >fixing their broken arrows simply..
                    > >
                    > >Ragi
                    > >
                    > >www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca
                    > >
                    > >-----Original Message-----
                    > >From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                    > >Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
                    > >Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:42 AM
                    > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Broken arrows, part the 632nd
                    > >
                    > >This could be due to changes in the arrows' spine and/or balance
                    > >point. While footed arrows look really spiff, they are engineering
                    > >and ballistic nightmares requiring lots of work and empirical
                    > >experience to make them fly properly.
                    > >Carolus
                    > >
                    > >At 10:24 AM 9/14/2005, you wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >I've fixed a couple of arrows this way using walnut; I found that
                    > > >while it looks really, really good, they didn't fly so well.
                    > > >Probably more my lack of practice than the choice of wood. However,
                    > > >I have a bunch of purpleheart blanks sitting and waiting for me to
                    > > >foot an entire set of ash shafts, and we'll see how that does.
                    > > >
                    > > >Peregrine Fairchylde
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >--
                    > >No virus found in this outgoing message.
                    > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                    > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date:
                    9/13/2005
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                    > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                    > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    > >
                    > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    > >
                    > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                    > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                    > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    > >
                    > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    > >
                    > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >--
                    > >No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                    > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date:
                    9/13/2005
                    >
                    >
                    >--
                    >No virus found in this outgoing message.
                    >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                    >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >---8<---------------------------------------------
                    >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                    >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    >
                    >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >---8<---------------------------------------------
                    >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                    >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    >
                    >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >--
                    >No virus found in this incoming message.
                    >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                    >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005


                    --
                    No virus found in this outgoing message.
                    Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                    Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005




                    ---8<---------------------------------------------
                    Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                    Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/

                    [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]

                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                    Not trying to scare people off, just warn them that their first attempts will probably look better than they fly. We have so much good info out there about
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 15, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Not trying to scare people off, just warn them that their first
                      attempts will probably look better than they fly. We have so much
                      good info out there about arrowmaking in general, most people have
                      gotten used to making at least reasonably performing arrows right off
                      the bat. This is an advanced skill and has some complex
                      considerations. IMHO, in a world expecting instant gratification, a
                      little warning is a good thing.

                      I definitely think everyone who wants to get past the basics should
                      try it and it isn't that difficult to learn the techniques. Like
                      most other things in archery, however, getting it right will take
                      work and practice.

                      Carolus

                      At 07:40 AM 9/15/2005, you wrote:

                      >Yep. If ya go to tradgang.com and go to the resources page there is a pretty
                      >good selection of how toos there and footing arrows on one of em. There is
                      >that single point foot that I spoke of .
                      >
                      >www.tradgang.com
                      >
                      >But I also don't know if it is fair of you to talk about how hard it is to
                      >get this to work. I think you might scare some people off. It can be
                      >difficult but with some instructions and a cpl good tools it is not hard.
                      >Jst time consumeing.
                      >
                      >Ragi
                      >
                      >-----Original Message-----
                      >From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                      >Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
                      >Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:32 AM
                      >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Broken arrows, part the 632nd
                      >
                      >Definitely, It's a terrific skill to have and every arrowmaker should
                      >at least try it. But they should know going in how tough it will be
                      >to get their early efforts to fly right so they don't get disillusioned.
                      >Carolus
                      >
                      >At 07:17 AM 9/15/2005, you wrote:
                      >
                      > >Yeah I thought of that after a I posted it. It was early. And I am off
                      > >coffee. ;) but if folks wanna learn to fot an arrow I can lead them to
                      >some
                      > >really good online build alongs that should help.
                      > >
                      > >Ragi
                      > >
                      > >-----Original Message-----
                      > >From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > >Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
                      > >Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:13 AM
                      > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      > >Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Broken arrows, part the 632nd
                      > >
                      > >You are pointing out number of the things I was referring to. Many
                      > >folks making footed arrows use a heavy hardwood for the point and
                      > >make it long for looks. They also don't match grain direction, and
                      > >don't compensate for the added weight of the glue which can soak into
                      > >the wood. Your experience both with woodworking and arrow making has
                      > >stood you in good stead, giving you knowledge many don't have. My
                      > >experiences with footing were for display and looks and shooting the
                      > >arrows proved disastrous (but I never took the time to work out the
                      > >details and I hadn't had the experience with arrow making I now
                      > >have) Simply replacing broken arrows was cheaper than the time it
                      > >took to learn the skills and then repair arrows.
                      > >Carolus
                      > >
                      > >At 04:58 AM 9/15/2005, you wrote:
                      > >
                      > > >Heya
                      > > >
                      > > >Ya know I have made a lot of footed arrows as repairs and I have not
                      >found
                      > > >them to be nightmares as you put it. A short hardwood foot on the end of
                      >a
                      > > >soft wood arrow makes them fly a little better really than they did
                      >before.
                      > > >I spose it moved the FOC a little forward which is really not a bad
                      >thing.
                      > > >
                      > > >Now mind you I have been making arrows for years and maybe that
                      >translates
                      > > >into a practical sense of whats right. I definitely do not recommend that
                      >a
                      > > >newbie try footing arrows unless he has some good woodworking xp.
                      > > >
                      > > >If you make a footed arrow with a long foot, say total lenth of foot >
                      >1/3
                      > > >of the arrow length then you start to mess with flight dynamics some, you
                      > > >can change the spine of the arrow rather a lot, it increases the mass
                      > >weight
                      > > >of the arrow significantly , this I think might be what you were talking
                      > > >about now that I think about it.
                      > > >
                      > > >The key is to make the foots short if you can when repairing arrows of
                      > >known
                      > > >performance.
                      > > >
                      > > >another idea is to foot the arrow with the same wood that the arrows are
                      > > >made of. This will prevent messing up the flight dynamics.
                      > > >
                      > > >The guys at tradgang came up with a good way to make repaired arrows with
                      >a
                      > > >single point foot. I suggest folks look that up if they are interested
                      >in
                      > > >fixing their broken arrows simply..
                      > > >
                      > > >Ragi
                      > > >
                      > > >www.shoppe.brokenaxe.ca
                      > > >
                      > > >-----Original Message-----
                      > > >From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > > >Behalf Of Carolus von Eulenhorst
                      > > >Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:42 AM
                      > > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      > > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Broken arrows, part the 632nd
                      > > >
                      > > >This could be due to changes in the arrows' spine and/or balance
                      > > >point. While footed arrows look really spiff, they are engineering
                      > > >and ballistic nightmares requiring lots of work and empirical
                      > > >experience to make them fly properly.
                      > > >Carolus
                      > > >
                      > > >At 10:24 AM 9/14/2005, you wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > >I've fixed a couple of arrows this way using walnut; I found that
                      > > > >while it looks really, really good, they didn't fly so well.
                      > > > >Probably more my lack of practice than the choice of wood. However,
                      > > > >I have a bunch of purpleheart blanks sitting and waiting for me to
                      > > > >foot an entire set of ash shafts, and we'll see how that does.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >Peregrine Fairchylde
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >--
                      > > >No virus found in this outgoing message.
                      > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      > > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date:
                      >9/13/2005
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                      > > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                      > > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                      > > >
                      > > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                      > > >
                      > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                      > > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                      > > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                      > > >
                      > > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                      > > >
                      > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >--
                      > > >No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      > > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date:
                      >9/13/2005
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >--
                      > >No virus found in this outgoing message.
                      > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                      > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                      > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                      > >
                      > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                      > >
                      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                      > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                      > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                      > >
                      > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                      > >
                      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >--
                      > >No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
                      >
                      >
                      >--
                      >No virus found in this outgoing message.
                      >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >---8<---------------------------------------------
                      >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                      >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                      >
                      >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                      >
                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >---8<---------------------------------------------
                      >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                      >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                      >
                      >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                      >
                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >--
                      >No virus found in this incoming message.
                      >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005


                      --
                      No virus found in this outgoing message.
                      Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
                    • Scott B. Jaqua
                      ... Funny I don t seem to have a problem with the engineering, could it be something in my genes? :) Actually your point is valid in the sense the balance is
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 15, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Carolus von Eulenhorst wrote:

                        >This could be due to changes in the arrows' spine and/or balance
                        >point. While footed arrows look really spiff, they are engineering
                        >and ballistic nightmares requiring lots of work and empirical
                        >experience to make them fly properly.
                        >Carolus
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        Funny I don't seem to have a problem with the engineering, could it be
                        something in my genes? :)

                        Actually your point is valid in the sense the balance is effected. But
                        it is important to realize that was the point (sorry) of footing a shaft
                        in period. A look at many period arrow heads will show you they are very
                        light when taking into account the weight of the shafts and the
                        poundages of bows being used.

                        Next take a look at what we learned as modern target archers (yes, I
                        know, CSLUB and the team were a ways back, but stick with me here). At
                        that time we were working on high level tuning of equipment. If you will
                        recall one of the last pieces of the puzzle we addressed was arrow
                        balance. The idea was to archive a balance point 9% (+/- 1%) of the
                        total length of the arrow, forward the center point of the arrow.
                        Example; for my full length 32" shafts, 9% of the length translates to
                        2.88". So applying that figure, the balance point should be 13.12" from
                        the tip or 18.88" from the nock. By balancing the arrow at this point,
                        the arrow will fly with a slight life (achieved by a process known as
                        point plaining), and the point will traverse a smooth arc to the target,
                        pretty much no matter what the back end of the arrow is doing.

                        Now take what we know from our modern studies and the cost of metal in
                        the medieval economy. During our time period, metal was expensive
                        (transport costs making up a major portion of that). While, skilled
                        labor was relatively cheap. Using a denser wood and footing the shaft
                        will achieve the same balance point as using a heavier (more expensive)
                        metal arrow head. So the answer to why foot a shaft is one of both
                        economics and engineering.

                        Yet for us the modern archer, it's easier to just use a heavier point
                        and still get a good result. Footing a shaft, while done right will
                        achieve excellent performance. But it is not easy to do and is thus more
                        of an artistic choice then it was in period.

                        Njall
                        (My dad really is a rocket scientist, can you tell?)
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.