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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine

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  • mark s graves
    One thing the book the Great Warbow points out is the density of the wood of the trees has changed. The trees are growing faster in these times and bows
    Message 1 of 25 , Jul 27, 2005
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      One thing the book the Great Warbow points out is the density of the wood
      of the trees has changed. The trees are growing faster in these times
      and bows don't pull as much weight. I can't imagine pulling a 160 to 175
      lbs. bow and I am a big, stout person. It is very interesting to
      read......William
    • Siegfried
      Well, for many years, traditionally, there was the Crossbow Conspiracy ... which was just that. A bunch of Crossbow folks getting together one evening to
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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        Well, for many years, traditionally, there was the Crossbow Conspiracy
        ... which was just that. A bunch of Crossbow folks getting together
        one evening to drink and talk Crossbow.

        However, it died off ever since the 'Iolo incident' kept Iolo from
        coming to Pennsic ... as he was one of the main people that helped
        organize it.

        It would be nice to see it return -- Though, it also had the problem
        of not being extremely well attended in the last few years.

        Siegfried


        On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
        > Jim, will you be at Pennsic ?
        > It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the crossbow
        > builders one night!!
        >
        > Thomas
        >
        > >From: James Koch <alchem@...>
        > >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
        > >Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:14:26 -0400
        > >
        > >Medieval crossbows for centuries had wooden prods which were quite
        > >long. These were more like a short hand bow mounted on a stock. I'd like
        > >to build one to check its performance.
        > > >
        > >Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >At 02:56 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:
        > > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Lord Caedmon Wilson
        > > ><caedmon.wilson@g...> wrote:
        > > > > Talk all you want, longbow boy...but I would like to see your handbow
        > > > > throw a solid iron bolt any further than 10 feet.
        > > > >
        > > > > I mean, look at the poundage! 250lb to 1000lb. Surely BIG NUMBERS
        > > > > count for something?!
        > > > >
        > > > > --
        > > > > Lord Caedmon Wilson
        > > > >
        > > > > Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal
        > > > > Crossbow Archery Champion, Barony Flaming Gryphon
        > > > > Rapier Champion, South Oaken Region
        > > >
        > > >Sorry look at
        > > >http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/crossbow/cross_l_v_c.html
        > > > A Longbow in this experiment pulling 68lbs threw a 2.5 oz arrow at
        > > >133.7 fps a 740lb crossbows managed just 5fps more with a bolt half
        > > >the wieght. The crossbow is far less efficiant due to the length of
        > > >power stroke. As to which is the better weapon, it depends on what the
        > > >situation is, and that has already been discussed at length, but to
        > > >nail my colours to the mast, I'm a longbowman through and through.
        > > >I do intend to repeat this test for myself in the not too distant
        > > >future, using my 70lb longbow, and my friends 250lb crossbow if I can
        > > >get permission to use my local pro-shop's chronograph. I will also do
        > > >a range comparision if I can find a field long enough and get
        > > >permission to use it. If people are interested I will film the results
        > > >and post them here, and I promise, no cheating!
        > > >
        > > >Daniel
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >---8<---------------------------------------------
        > > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        > > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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        > > >
        > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
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        > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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        --
        _________________________________________________________________________
        THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
        Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
        Kingdom of Atlantia - Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
        http://eliw.com/ - http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
      • Bruce R. Gordon
        Greetings Yeah, there s a real nice 16th century crossbow with a massive wooden prod in the Cleveland Museum of Art, mounted with a very well-preserved
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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          Greetings
          Yeah, there's a real nice 16th century crossbow with a massive wooden prod in the Cleveland Museum of Art, mounted with a very well-preserved cranequin. Looks like sinew backing - German manufacture, I think. Charles has, I'm sure, seen it any number of times.

          Nigel

          >
          >
          > Actually the wood prods continued in use until the
          > 16th century... (snip)
          --
          Three things never heard from the mouth of a Celt:
          "Do these colors match?"
          "Is this too much jewelry?"
          "Is that my drink?"

          http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michael Scherrer
          I was at Pennsic XXX, which may have been the last real Conspiracy get together. And had heard about Iolo s little run in with Pennsic authorities, some time
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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            I was at Pennsic XXX, which may have been the last real Conspiracy get
            together.
            And had heard about Iolo's little run in with Pennsic authorities, some time
            later.

            So unless some one else would like to volunteer.
            How about Wednesday August 17th, around 7:30 PM, in the Calontir
            encampment.
            Ask for Thomas of Cologne.
            Bring a chair, maybe something to drink. And we can swap bad stories.
            It may not be big turn out.
            But how often will there be any number of crossbow builders at one event?

            Thomas

            >From: Siegfried <SiegfriedFaust@...>
            >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
            >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:42:02 -0400
            >
            >Well, for many years, traditionally, there was the Crossbow Conspiracy
            >... which was just that. A bunch of Crossbow folks getting together
            >one evening to drink and talk Crossbow.
            >
            >However, it died off ever since the 'Iolo incident' kept Iolo from
            >coming to Pennsic ... as he was one of the main people that helped
            >organize it.
            >
            >It would be nice to see it return -- Though, it also had the problem
            >of not being extremely well attended in the last few years.
            >
            >Siegfried
            >
            >
            >On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
            > > Jim, will you be at Pennsic ?
            > > It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the
            >crossbow
            > > builders one night!!
            > >
            > > Thomas
          • Siegfried
            Hrmmm, Wednesday can work, but of course you are up against Midnight Madness (not that the madness happens all that much at night anyway nowadays. I d say that
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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              Hrmmm, Wednesday can work, but of course you are up against Midnight
              Madness (not that the madness happens all that much at night anyway
              nowadays.

              I'd say that Wednesday is probably the 2nd best night ... Thursday, to
              me, is the best

              Either way, I'll try to swing by ;)

              Oh, where IS Calontir anyway? (no no, I mean at Pennsic) -- Short of
              wandering around looking for the big purple tents.

              Siegfried

              On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
              > I was at Pennsic XXX, which may have been the last real Conspiracy get
              > together.
              > And had heard about Iolo's little run in with Pennsic authorities, some time
              > later.
              >
              > So unless some one else would like to volunteer.
              > How about Wednesday August 17th, around 7:30 PM, in the Calontir
              > encampment.
              > Ask for Thomas of Cologne.
              > Bring a chair, maybe something to drink. And we can swap bad stories.
              > It may not be big turn out.
              > But how often will there be any number of crossbow builders at one event?
              >
              > Thomas
              >
              > >From: Siegfried <SiegfriedFaust@...>
              > >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
              > >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:42:02 -0400
              > >
              > >Well, for many years, traditionally, there was the Crossbow Conspiracy
              > >... which was just that. A bunch of Crossbow folks getting together
              > >one evening to drink and talk Crossbow.
              > >
              > >However, it died off ever since the 'Iolo incident' kept Iolo from
              > >coming to Pennsic ... as he was one of the main people that helped
              > >organize it.
              > >
              > >It would be nice to see it return -- Though, it also had the problem
              > >of not being extremely well attended in the last few years.
              > >
              > >Siegfried
              > >
              > >
              > >On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
              > > > Jim, will you be at Pennsic ?
              > > > It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the
              > >crossbow
              > > > builders one night!!
              > > >
              > > > Thomas
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---8<---------------------------------------------
              > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
              > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
              >
              > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              --
              _________________________________________________________________________
              THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
              Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
              Kingdom of Atlantia - Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
              http://eliw.com/ - http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
            • Michael Scherrer
              I have no problem with Thursday. Let us make it Thursday than. People building, interested in building or just want to talk crossbow. I have a wife that will
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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                I have no problem with Thursday. Let us make it Thursday than.
                People building, interested in building or just want to talk crossbow.

                I have a wife that will more then likely have me following her at the
                Midnight Madness.

                Directions???
                Coming from the battle field, go threw the new merchant area, past the rush
                tents, and
                the should put you in the right area. That is if they did change things.
                That should get you close enought to see the purple tent.
                Thomas

                >From: Siegfried <SiegfriedFaust@...>
                >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
                >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 12:27:27 -0400
                >
                >Hrmmm, Wednesday can work, but of course you are up against Midnight
                >Madness (not that the madness happens all that much at night anyway
                >nowadays.
                >
                >I'd say that Wednesday is probably the 2nd best night ... Thursday, to
                >me, is the best
                >
                >Either way, I'll try to swing by ;)
                >
                >Oh, where IS Calontir anyway? (no no, I mean at Pennsic) -- Short of
                >wandering around looking for the big purple tents.
                >
                >Siegfried
                >
                >On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
                > > I was at Pennsic XXX, which may have been the last real Conspiracy get
                > > together.
                > > And had heard about Iolo's little run in with Pennsic authorities, some
                >time
                > > later.
                > >
                > > So unless some one else would like to volunteer.
                > > How about Wednesday August 17th, around 7:30 PM, in the Calontir
                > > encampment.
                > > Ask for Thomas of Cologne.
                > > Bring a chair, maybe something to drink. And we can swap bad stories.
                > > It may not be big turn out.
                > > But how often will there be any number of crossbow builders at one
                >event?
                > >
                > > Thomas
                > >
                > > >From: Siegfried <SiegfriedFaust@...>
                > > >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                > > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                > > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
                > > >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:42:02 -0400
                > > >
                > > >Well, for many years, traditionally, there was the Crossbow Conspiracy
                > > >... which was just that. A bunch of Crossbow folks getting together
                > > >one evening to drink and talk Crossbow.
                > > >
                > > >However, it died off ever since the 'Iolo incident' kept Iolo from
                > > >coming to Pennsic ... as he was one of the main people that helped
                > > >organize it.
                > > >
                > > >It would be nice to see it return -- Though, it also had the problem
                > > >of not being extremely well attended in the last few years.
                > > >
                > > >Siegfried
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
                > > > > Jim, will you be at Pennsic ?
                > > > > It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the
                > > >crossbow
                > > > > builders one night!!
                > > > >
                > > > > Thomas
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                > >
                > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >--
                >_________________________________________________________________________
                >THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
                >Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
                >Kingdom of Atlantia - Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                >http://eliw.com/ - http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
                >
                >
                >---8<---------------------------------------------
                >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                >
                >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
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              • James Koch
                I gave up hosting the Crossbow Conspiracy several years ago and turned it over to Renee. You know, the cute blond with the Southern drawl and a crossbow under
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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                  I gave up hosting the Crossbow Conspiracy several years ago and turned it
                  over to Renee. You know, the cute blond with the Southern drawl and a
                  crossbow under her arm. She may no longer be sponsoring it since getting
                  word out became difficult once Iolo stopped attending. If someone knows
                  how to contact her, it would be a courtesy to ask if she has any plans to
                  host the get together this year.
                  >
                  Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                  >
                  >
                  >At 10:42 AM 8/2/2005, you wrote:
                  >Well, for many years, traditionally, there was the Crossbow Conspiracy
                  >... which was just that. A bunch of Crossbow folks getting together
                  >one evening to drink and talk Crossbow.
                  >
                  >However, it died off ever since the 'Iolo incident' kept Iolo from
                  >coming to Pennsic ... as he was one of the main people that helped
                  >organize it.
                  >
                  >It would be nice to see it return -- Though, it also had the problem
                  >of not being extremely well attended in the last few years.
                  >
                  >Siegfried
                  >
                  >
                  >On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
                  > > Jim, will you be at Pennsic ?
                  > > It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the crossbow
                  > > builders one night!!
                  > >
                  > > Thomas
                  > >
                  > > >From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                  > > >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
                  > > >Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:14:26 -0400
                  > > >
                  > > >Medieval crossbows for centuries had wooden prods which were quite
                  > > >long. These were more like a short hand bow mounted on a stock. I'd like
                  > > >to build one to check its performance.
                  > > > >
                  > > >Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >At 02:56 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:
                  > > > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Lord Caedmon Wilson
                  > > > ><caedmon.wilson@g...> wrote:
                  > > > > > Talk all you want, longbow boy...but I would like to see your handbow
                  > > > > > throw a solid iron bolt any further than 10 feet.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I mean, look at the poundage! 250lb to 1000lb. Surely BIG NUMBERS
                  > > > > > count for something?!
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --
                  > > > > > Lord Caedmon Wilson
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal
                  > > > > > Crossbow Archery Champion, Barony Flaming Gryphon
                  > > > > > Rapier Champion, South Oaken Region
                  > > > >
                  > > > >Sorry look at
                  > > > >http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/crossbow/cross_l_v_c.html
                  > > > > A Longbow in this experiment pulling 68lbs threw a 2.5 oz arrow at
                  > > > >133.7 fps a 740lb crossbows managed just 5fps more with a bolt half
                  > > > >the wieght. The crossbow is far less efficiant due to the length of
                  > > > >power stroke. As to which is the better weapon, it depends on what the
                  > > > >situation is, and that has already been discussed at length, but to
                  > > > >nail my colours to the mast, I'm a longbowman through and through.
                  > > > >I do intend to repeat this test for myself in the not too distant
                  > > > >future, using my 70lb longbow, and my friends 250lb crossbow if I can
                  > > > >get permission to use my local pro-shop's chronograph. I will also do
                  > > > >a range comparision if I can find a field long enough and get
                  > > > >permission to use it. If people are interested I will film the results
                  > > > >and post them here, and I promise, no cheating!
                  > > > >
                  > > > >Daniel
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                  > > > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                  > > > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                  > > > >
                  > > > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                  > > > >
                  > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >_____________________________________________________
                  > > > >This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm
                  > > >
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                  > > >
                  > > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                  > > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                  > > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                  > > >
                  > > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                  > > >
                  > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
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                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                  > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                  > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                  > >
                  > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
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                  >
                  >--
                  >_________________________________________________________________________
                  >THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
                  >Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
                  >Kingdom of Atlantia - Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                  >http://eliw.com/ - http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
                  >
                  >
                  >---8<---------------------------------------------
                  >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                  >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                  >
                  >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
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                • Michael Scherrer
                  Any one out there know how to contact her??? Plan A IF not , plan B. Thursday night 7:30 Calontir on the map as NO3 See Thomas of Cologne
                  Message 8 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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                    Any one out there know how to contact her??? Plan A
                    IF not , plan B.
                    Thursday night 7:30 Calontir on the map as NO3
                    See Thomas of Cologne

                    >From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                    >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
                    >Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 15:14:35 -0400
                    >
                    >I gave up hosting the Crossbow Conspiracy several years ago and turned it
                    >over to Renee. You know, the cute blond with the Southern drawl and a
                    >crossbow under her arm. She may no longer be sponsoring it since getting
                    >word out became difficult once Iolo stopped attending. If someone knows
                    >how to contact her, it would be a courtesy to ask if she has any plans to
                    >host the get together this year.
                    > >
                    >Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                    > >
                  • James Koch
                    I ll definitely be at Pennsic and hope to arrive on the first Wednesday. ... Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                    Message 9 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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                      I'll definitely be at Pennsic and hope to arrive on the first Wednesday.
                      >
                      Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                      >
                      >
                      >At 10:07 AM 8/2/2005, you wrote:
                      >Jim, will you be at Pennsic ?
                      >It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the crossbow
                      >builders one night!!
                      >
                      >Thomas
                      >
                      > >From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                      > >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
                      > >Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:14:26 -0400
                      > >
                      > >Medieval crossbows for centuries had wooden prods which were quite
                      > >long. These were more like a short hand bow mounted on a stock. I'd like
                      > >to build one to check its performance.
                      > > >
                      > >Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >At 02:56 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:
                      > > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Lord Caedmon Wilson
                      > > ><caedmon.wilson@g...> wrote:
                      > > > > Talk all you want, longbow boy...but I would like to see your handbow
                      > > > > throw a solid iron bolt any further than 10 feet.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I mean, look at the poundage! 250lb to 1000lb. Surely BIG NUMBERS
                      > > > > count for something?!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --
                      > > > > Lord Caedmon Wilson
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal
                      > > > > Crossbow Archery Champion, Barony Flaming Gryphon
                      > > > > Rapier Champion, South Oaken Region
                      > > >
                      > > >Sorry look at
                      > > >http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/crossbow/cross_l_v_c.html
                      > > > A Longbow in this experiment pulling 68lbs threw a 2.5 oz arrow at
                      > > >133.7 fps a 740lb crossbows managed just 5fps more with a bolt half
                      > > >the wieght. The crossbow is far less efficiant due to the length of
                      > > >power stroke. As to which is the better weapon, it depends on what the
                      > > >situation is, and that has already been discussed at length, but to
                      > > >nail my colours to the mast, I'm a longbowman through and through.
                      > > >I do intend to repeat this test for myself in the not too distant
                      > > >future, using my 70lb longbow, and my friends 250lb crossbow if I can
                      > > >get permission to use my local pro-shop's chronograph. I will also do
                      > > >a range comparision if I can find a field long enough and get
                      > > >permission to use it. If people are interested I will film the results
                      > > >and post them here, and I promise, no cheating!
                      > > >
                      > > >Daniel
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
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