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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine

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  • mark s graves
    One thing the book the Great Warbow points out is the density of the wood of the trees has changed. The trees are growing faster in these times and bows
    Message 1 of 25 , Jul 27, 2005
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      One thing the book the Great Warbow points out is the density of the wood
      of the trees has changed. The trees are growing faster in these times
      and bows don't pull as much weight. I can't imagine pulling a 160 to 175
      lbs. bow and I am a big, stout person. It is very interesting to
      read......William
    • J. Hughes
      Actually the wood prods continued in use until the 16th century. With crossbows the poundage goes up with composite and steel as a trade off as the rate of
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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        Actually the wood prods continued in use until the
        16th century. With crossbows the poundage goes up with
        composite and steel as a trade off as the rate of fire
        goes down. In about the 11th century military use
        favored the use of composite prods which out shot all
        available handbows. The longbow as we know it with the
        heavier poundage is only began to be developed and
        issued with Edward I at the end of the 13th century.
        By the time it is on the battlefields of the 100rd
        Years War, the crossbow manufactures were working
        toward the steel prod. But at Crecy the longbow was
        present and the crossbowmen had composite prods but no
        Pavases.

        Charles O'Connor

        --- Gary Henderson <cucymry@...> wrote:

        > From what I have read (can't remember what source
        > off hand but I believe it
        > was the medieval archer by Bradbury) That originally
        > the crossbow prods were
        > wood and did not begin to outshoot the longbow till
        > steel prods were
        > introduced in the 14th or 15th century .
        > Gwyn



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      • J. Hughes
        I would be very interested in how the reconstruction comes out. I know that wood prod crossbows were popular with Swedish peasants in the 16th century for
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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          I would be very interested in how the reconstruction
          comes out. I know that wood prod crossbows were
          popular with Swedish peasants in the 16th century for
          hunting and proved very effective against the Danish
          in the revolt.

          Charles O'Connor

          --- James Koch <alchem@...> wrote:

          > Medieval crossbows for centuries had wooden prods
          > which were quite
          > long. These were more like a short hand bow mounted
          > on a stock. I'd like
          > to build one to check its performance.
          > >
          > Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)




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        • Michael Scherrer
          Jim, will you be at Pennsic ? It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the crossbow builders one night!! Thomas
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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            Jim, will you be at Pennsic ?
            It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the crossbow
            builders one night!!

            Thomas

            >From: James Koch <alchem@...>
            >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
            >Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:14:26 -0400
            >
            >Medieval crossbows for centuries had wooden prods which were quite
            >long. These were more like a short hand bow mounted on a stock. I'd like
            >to build one to check its performance.
            > >
            >Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
            > >
            > >
            > >At 02:56 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:
            > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Lord Caedmon Wilson
            > ><caedmon.wilson@g...> wrote:
            > > > Talk all you want, longbow boy...but I would like to see your handbow
            > > > throw a solid iron bolt any further than 10 feet.
            > > >
            > > > I mean, look at the poundage! 250lb to 1000lb. Surely BIG NUMBERS
            > > > count for something?!
            > > >
            > > > --
            > > > Lord Caedmon Wilson
            > > >
            > > > Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal
            > > > Crossbow Archery Champion, Barony Flaming Gryphon
            > > > Rapier Champion, South Oaken Region
            > >
            > >Sorry look at
            > >http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/crossbow/cross_l_v_c.html
            > > A Longbow in this experiment pulling 68lbs threw a 2.5 oz arrow at
            > >133.7 fps a 740lb crossbows managed just 5fps more with a bolt half
            > >the wieght. The crossbow is far less efficiant due to the length of
            > >power stroke. As to which is the better weapon, it depends on what the
            > >situation is, and that has already been discussed at length, but to
            > >nail my colours to the mast, I'm a longbowman through and through.
            > >I do intend to repeat this test for myself in the not too distant
            > >future, using my 70lb longbow, and my friends 250lb crossbow if I can
            > >get permission to use my local pro-shop's chronograph. I will also do
            > >a range comparision if I can find a field long enough and get
            > >permission to use it. If people are interested I will film the results
            > >and post them here, and I promise, no cheating!
            > >
            > >Daniel
            > >
            > >
            > >
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          • Siegfried
            Well, for many years, traditionally, there was the Crossbow Conspiracy ... which was just that. A bunch of Crossbow folks getting together one evening to
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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              Well, for many years, traditionally, there was the Crossbow Conspiracy
              ... which was just that. A bunch of Crossbow folks getting together
              one evening to drink and talk Crossbow.

              However, it died off ever since the 'Iolo incident' kept Iolo from
              coming to Pennsic ... as he was one of the main people that helped
              organize it.

              It would be nice to see it return -- Though, it also had the problem
              of not being extremely well attended in the last few years.

              Siegfried


              On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
              > Jim, will you be at Pennsic ?
              > It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the crossbow
              > builders one night!!
              >
              > Thomas
              >
              > >From: James Koch <alchem@...>
              > >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
              > >Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:14:26 -0400
              > >
              > >Medieval crossbows for centuries had wooden prods which were quite
              > >long. These were more like a short hand bow mounted on a stock. I'd like
              > >to build one to check its performance.
              > > >
              > >Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >At 02:56 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:
              > > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Lord Caedmon Wilson
              > > ><caedmon.wilson@g...> wrote:
              > > > > Talk all you want, longbow boy...but I would like to see your handbow
              > > > > throw a solid iron bolt any further than 10 feet.
              > > > >
              > > > > I mean, look at the poundage! 250lb to 1000lb. Surely BIG NUMBERS
              > > > > count for something?!
              > > > >
              > > > > --
              > > > > Lord Caedmon Wilson
              > > > >
              > > > > Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal
              > > > > Crossbow Archery Champion, Barony Flaming Gryphon
              > > > > Rapier Champion, South Oaken Region
              > > >
              > > >Sorry look at
              > > >http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/crossbow/cross_l_v_c.html
              > > > A Longbow in this experiment pulling 68lbs threw a 2.5 oz arrow at
              > > >133.7 fps a 740lb crossbows managed just 5fps more with a bolt half
              > > >the wieght. The crossbow is far less efficiant due to the length of
              > > >power stroke. As to which is the better weapon, it depends on what the
              > > >situation is, and that has already been discussed at length, but to
              > > >nail my colours to the mast, I'm a longbowman through and through.
              > > >I do intend to repeat this test for myself in the not too distant
              > > >future, using my 70lb longbow, and my friends 250lb crossbow if I can
              > > >get permission to use my local pro-shop's chronograph. I will also do
              > > >a range comparision if I can find a field long enough and get
              > > >permission to use it. If people are interested I will film the results
              > > >and post them here, and I promise, no cheating!
              > > >
              > > >Daniel
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >---8<---------------------------------------------
              > > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
              > > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
              > > >
              > > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
              > > >
              > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
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              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
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              > > >This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm
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              >
              >
              > ---8<---------------------------------------------
              > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
              > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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              >
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              --
              _________________________________________________________________________
              THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
              Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
              Kingdom of Atlantia - Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
              http://eliw.com/ - http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
            • Bruce R. Gordon
              Greetings Yeah, there s a real nice 16th century crossbow with a massive wooden prod in the Cleveland Museum of Art, mounted with a very well-preserved
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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                Greetings
                Yeah, there's a real nice 16th century crossbow with a massive wooden prod in the Cleveland Museum of Art, mounted with a very well-preserved cranequin. Looks like sinew backing - German manufacture, I think. Charles has, I'm sure, seen it any number of times.

                Nigel

                >
                >
                > Actually the wood prods continued in use until the
                > 16th century... (snip)
                --
                Three things never heard from the mouth of a Celt:
                "Do these colors match?"
                "Is this too much jewelry?"
                "Is that my drink?"

                http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Michael Scherrer
                I was at Pennsic XXX, which may have been the last real Conspiracy get together. And had heard about Iolo s little run in with Pennsic authorities, some time
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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                  I was at Pennsic XXX, which may have been the last real Conspiracy get
                  together.
                  And had heard about Iolo's little run in with Pennsic authorities, some time
                  later.

                  So unless some one else would like to volunteer.
                  How about Wednesday August 17th, around 7:30 PM, in the Calontir
                  encampment.
                  Ask for Thomas of Cologne.
                  Bring a chair, maybe something to drink. And we can swap bad stories.
                  It may not be big turn out.
                  But how often will there be any number of crossbow builders at one event?

                  Thomas

                  >From: Siegfried <SiegfriedFaust@...>
                  >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
                  >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:42:02 -0400
                  >
                  >Well, for many years, traditionally, there was the Crossbow Conspiracy
                  >... which was just that. A bunch of Crossbow folks getting together
                  >one evening to drink and talk Crossbow.
                  >
                  >However, it died off ever since the 'Iolo incident' kept Iolo from
                  >coming to Pennsic ... as he was one of the main people that helped
                  >organize it.
                  >
                  >It would be nice to see it return -- Though, it also had the problem
                  >of not being extremely well attended in the last few years.
                  >
                  >Siegfried
                  >
                  >
                  >On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
                  > > Jim, will you be at Pennsic ?
                  > > It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the
                  >crossbow
                  > > builders one night!!
                  > >
                  > > Thomas
                • Siegfried
                  Hrmmm, Wednesday can work, but of course you are up against Midnight Madness (not that the madness happens all that much at night anyway nowadays. I d say that
                  Message 8 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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                    Hrmmm, Wednesday can work, but of course you are up against Midnight
                    Madness (not that the madness happens all that much at night anyway
                    nowadays.

                    I'd say that Wednesday is probably the 2nd best night ... Thursday, to
                    me, is the best

                    Either way, I'll try to swing by ;)

                    Oh, where IS Calontir anyway? (no no, I mean at Pennsic) -- Short of
                    wandering around looking for the big purple tents.

                    Siegfried

                    On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
                    > I was at Pennsic XXX, which may have been the last real Conspiracy get
                    > together.
                    > And had heard about Iolo's little run in with Pennsic authorities, some time
                    > later.
                    >
                    > So unless some one else would like to volunteer.
                    > How about Wednesday August 17th, around 7:30 PM, in the Calontir
                    > encampment.
                    > Ask for Thomas of Cologne.
                    > Bring a chair, maybe something to drink. And we can swap bad stories.
                    > It may not be big turn out.
                    > But how often will there be any number of crossbow builders at one event?
                    >
                    > Thomas
                    >
                    > >From: Siegfried <SiegfriedFaust@...>
                    > >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
                    > >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:42:02 -0400
                    > >
                    > >Well, for many years, traditionally, there was the Crossbow Conspiracy
                    > >... which was just that. A bunch of Crossbow folks getting together
                    > >one evening to drink and talk Crossbow.
                    > >
                    > >However, it died off ever since the 'Iolo incident' kept Iolo from
                    > >coming to Pennsic ... as he was one of the main people that helped
                    > >organize it.
                    > >
                    > >It would be nice to see it return -- Though, it also had the problem
                    > >of not being extremely well attended in the last few years.
                    > >
                    > >Siegfried
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
                    > > > Jim, will you be at Pennsic ?
                    > > > It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the
                    > >crossbow
                    > > > builders one night!!
                    > > >
                    > > > Thomas
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                    > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                    > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    >
                    > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    --
                    _________________________________________________________________________
                    THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
                    Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
                    Kingdom of Atlantia - Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                    http://eliw.com/ - http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
                  • Michael Scherrer
                    I have no problem with Thursday. Let us make it Thursday than. People building, interested in building or just want to talk crossbow. I have a wife that will
                    Message 9 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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                      I have no problem with Thursday. Let us make it Thursday than.
                      People building, interested in building or just want to talk crossbow.

                      I have a wife that will more then likely have me following her at the
                      Midnight Madness.

                      Directions???
                      Coming from the battle field, go threw the new merchant area, past the rush
                      tents, and
                      the should put you in the right area. That is if they did change things.
                      That should get you close enought to see the purple tent.
                      Thomas

                      >From: Siegfried <SiegfriedFaust@...>
                      >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
                      >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 12:27:27 -0400
                      >
                      >Hrmmm, Wednesday can work, but of course you are up against Midnight
                      >Madness (not that the madness happens all that much at night anyway
                      >nowadays.
                      >
                      >I'd say that Wednesday is probably the 2nd best night ... Thursday, to
                      >me, is the best
                      >
                      >Either way, I'll try to swing by ;)
                      >
                      >Oh, where IS Calontir anyway? (no no, I mean at Pennsic) -- Short of
                      >wandering around looking for the big purple tents.
                      >
                      >Siegfried
                      >
                      >On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
                      > > I was at Pennsic XXX, which may have been the last real Conspiracy get
                      > > together.
                      > > And had heard about Iolo's little run in with Pennsic authorities, some
                      >time
                      > > later.
                      > >
                      > > So unless some one else would like to volunteer.
                      > > How about Wednesday August 17th, around 7:30 PM, in the Calontir
                      > > encampment.
                      > > Ask for Thomas of Cologne.
                      > > Bring a chair, maybe something to drink. And we can swap bad stories.
                      > > It may not be big turn out.
                      > > But how often will there be any number of crossbow builders at one
                      >event?
                      > >
                      > > Thomas
                      > >
                      > > >From: Siegfried <SiegfriedFaust@...>
                      > > >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      > > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      > > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
                      > > >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:42:02 -0400
                      > > >
                      > > >Well, for many years, traditionally, there was the Crossbow Conspiracy
                      > > >... which was just that. A bunch of Crossbow folks getting together
                      > > >one evening to drink and talk Crossbow.
                      > > >
                      > > >However, it died off ever since the 'Iolo incident' kept Iolo from
                      > > >coming to Pennsic ... as he was one of the main people that helped
                      > > >organize it.
                      > > >
                      > > >It would be nice to see it return -- Though, it also had the problem
                      > > >of not being extremely well attended in the last few years.
                      > > >
                      > > >Siegfried
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
                      > > > > Jim, will you be at Pennsic ?
                      > > > > It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the
                      > > >crossbow
                      > > > > builders one night!!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thomas
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                      > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                      > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                      > >
                      > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >--
                      >_________________________________________________________________________
                      >THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
                      >Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
                      >Kingdom of Atlantia - Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                      >http://eliw.com/ - http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
                      >
                      >
                      >---8<---------------------------------------------
                      >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                      >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                      >
                      >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                      >
                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
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                      >
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                    • James Koch
                      I gave up hosting the Crossbow Conspiracy several years ago and turned it over to Renee. You know, the cute blond with the Southern drawl and a crossbow under
                      Message 10 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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                        I gave up hosting the Crossbow Conspiracy several years ago and turned it
                        over to Renee. You know, the cute blond with the Southern drawl and a
                        crossbow under her arm. She may no longer be sponsoring it since getting
                        word out became difficult once Iolo stopped attending. If someone knows
                        how to contact her, it would be a courtesy to ask if she has any plans to
                        host the get together this year.
                        >
                        Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                        >
                        >
                        >At 10:42 AM 8/2/2005, you wrote:
                        >Well, for many years, traditionally, there was the Crossbow Conspiracy
                        >... which was just that. A bunch of Crossbow folks getting together
                        >one evening to drink and talk Crossbow.
                        >
                        >However, it died off ever since the 'Iolo incident' kept Iolo from
                        >coming to Pennsic ... as he was one of the main people that helped
                        >organize it.
                        >
                        >It would be nice to see it return -- Though, it also had the problem
                        >of not being extremely well attended in the last few years.
                        >
                        >Siegfried
                        >
                        >
                        >On 8/2/05, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
                        > > Jim, will you be at Pennsic ?
                        > > It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the crossbow
                        > > builders one night!!
                        > >
                        > > Thomas
                        > >
                        > > >From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                        > > >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                        > > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                        > > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
                        > > >Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:14:26 -0400
                        > > >
                        > > >Medieval crossbows for centuries had wooden prods which were quite
                        > > >long. These were more like a short hand bow mounted on a stock. I'd like
                        > > >to build one to check its performance.
                        > > > >
                        > > >Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >At 02:56 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:
                        > > > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Lord Caedmon Wilson
                        > > > ><caedmon.wilson@g...> wrote:
                        > > > > > Talk all you want, longbow boy...but I would like to see your handbow
                        > > > > > throw a solid iron bolt any further than 10 feet.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I mean, look at the poundage! 250lb to 1000lb. Surely BIG NUMBERS
                        > > > > > count for something?!
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --
                        > > > > > Lord Caedmon Wilson
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal
                        > > > > > Crossbow Archery Champion, Barony Flaming Gryphon
                        > > > > > Rapier Champion, South Oaken Region
                        > > > >
                        > > > >Sorry look at
                        > > > >http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/crossbow/cross_l_v_c.html
                        > > > > A Longbow in this experiment pulling 68lbs threw a 2.5 oz arrow at
                        > > > >133.7 fps a 740lb crossbows managed just 5fps more with a bolt half
                        > > > >the wieght. The crossbow is far less efficiant due to the length of
                        > > > >power stroke. As to which is the better weapon, it depends on what the
                        > > > >situation is, and that has already been discussed at length, but to
                        > > > >nail my colours to the mast, I'm a longbowman through and through.
                        > > > >I do intend to repeat this test for myself in the not too distant
                        > > > >future, using my 70lb longbow, and my friends 250lb crossbow if I can
                        > > > >get permission to use my local pro-shop's chronograph. I will also do
                        > > > >a range comparision if I can find a field long enough and get
                        > > > >permission to use it. If people are interested I will film the results
                        > > > >and post them here, and I promise, no cheating!
                        > > > >
                        > > > >Daniel
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
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                      • Michael Scherrer
                        Any one out there know how to contact her??? Plan A IF not , plan B. Thursday night 7:30 Calontir on the map as NO3 See Thomas of Cologne
                        Message 11 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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                          Any one out there know how to contact her??? Plan A
                          IF not , plan B.
                          Thursday night 7:30 Calontir on the map as NO3
                          See Thomas of Cologne

                          >From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                          >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
                          >Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 15:14:35 -0400
                          >
                          >I gave up hosting the Crossbow Conspiracy several years ago and turned it
                          >over to Renee. You know, the cute blond with the Southern drawl and a
                          >crossbow under her arm. She may no longer be sponsoring it since getting
                          >word out became difficult once Iolo stopped attending. If someone knows
                          >how to contact her, it would be a courtesy to ask if she has any plans to
                          >host the get together this year.
                          > >
                          >Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                          > >
                        • James Koch
                          I ll definitely be at Pennsic and hope to arrive on the first Wednesday. ... Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                          Message 12 of 25 , Aug 2, 2005
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                            I'll definitely be at Pennsic and hope to arrive on the first Wednesday.
                            >
                            Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                            >
                            >
                            >At 10:07 AM 8/2/2005, you wrote:
                            >Jim, will you be at Pennsic ?
                            >It would be nice to get a little round table discussion with the crossbow
                            >builders one night!!
                            >
                            >Thomas
                            >
                            > >From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                            > >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                            > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                            > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: The Infernal Machine
                            > >Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:14:26 -0400
                            > >
                            > >Medieval crossbows for centuries had wooden prods which were quite
                            > >long. These were more like a short hand bow mounted on a stock. I'd like
                            > >to build one to check its performance.
                            > > >
                            > >Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >At 02:56 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:
                            > > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Lord Caedmon Wilson
                            > > ><caedmon.wilson@g...> wrote:
                            > > > > Talk all you want, longbow boy...but I would like to see your handbow
                            > > > > throw a solid iron bolt any further than 10 feet.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I mean, look at the poundage! 250lb to 1000lb. Surely BIG NUMBERS
                            > > > > count for something?!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --
                            > > > > Lord Caedmon Wilson
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal
                            > > > > Crossbow Archery Champion, Barony Flaming Gryphon
                            > > > > Rapier Champion, South Oaken Region
                            > > >
                            > > >Sorry look at
                            > > >http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/crossbow/cross_l_v_c.html
                            > > > A Longbow in this experiment pulling 68lbs threw a 2.5 oz arrow at
                            > > >133.7 fps a 740lb crossbows managed just 5fps more with a bolt half
                            > > >the wieght. The crossbow is far less efficiant due to the length of
                            > > >power stroke. As to which is the better weapon, it depends on what the
                            > > >situation is, and that has already been discussed at length, but to
                            > > >nail my colours to the mast, I'm a longbowman through and through.
                            > > >I do intend to repeat this test for myself in the not too distant
                            > > >future, using my 70lb longbow, and my friends 250lb crossbow if I can
                            > > >get permission to use my local pro-shop's chronograph. I will also do
                            > > >a range comparision if I can find a field long enough and get
                            > > >permission to use it. If people are interested I will film the results
                            > > >and post them here, and I promise, no cheating!
                            > > >
                            > > >Daniel
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
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