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Re: [SCA-Archery] Want to start archery, parental advisory

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  • Carolus von Eulenhorst
    Austin, I am the Caidan Master of Archers, responsible for Target Archery, not Combat Archery, but I may be able to help. As a Kingdom officer, I have direct
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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      Austin,
      I am the Caidan Master of Archers, responsible for Target Archery, not
      Combat Archery, but I may be able to help. As a Kingdom officer, I have
      direct insight into the goals and purposes of the organization. While we
      speak of "War" and "combat" and reflect a martial society, our purpose is
      to study history and society of the Western world prior to the 17th
      century. In was a contradictory time known both as "The age of Faith" and
      responsible for the development of the philosophical thought which lead to
      today's opposition to war, and a time of some of the most extended periods
      of armed conflict the world has seen. We study all of this, the arts of
      peace as well as the arts of war. We use a sport (a "martial art") to
      simulate the "war" part and talk of it in military terms. But this sport
      is essentially like Judo, fencing, Karate, or any of the other "martial
      arts" sports in the world today. The sport teaches discipline, teamwork,
      reliability, trustworthiness, and physical skill. It is not "war" in the
      real sense. In fact, most people I know have come to hate the idea of war
      in the real world because our activities have shown, in a very up-close and
      personal way, just what war means. Think of what we do as a teaching tool,
      one which teaches peace by showing in a safe manner just why war should be
      avoided. Please show them this message and ask them to email me if they
      have any questions.

      THL Carolus von Eulenhorst

      At 07:52 AM 7/22/2005, you wrote:

      >Hail All,
      >
      >My name is Austin and I am really interested in joining the SCA and
      >becoming a Calafian Combat Archer. My problem is that I am 17.5 and I
      >am working on ways to convince my parents to let me go to local
      >archery practices and not freak out about "combat" archery, they hate
      >war. I have money to go out and get my own stuff, but if I do things
      >behind their backs I will be out of a home when I turn 18(nice
      >parents). Any help here would be most excellent in convincing them.
      >
      >A Thousand Thank
      >
      >-Austin
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Kay Newsom
      I m new to this group also but I ve been around the SCA for more that 10 years. I was an archery marshal in Meridies, was a combat archer (and will be again
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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        I'm new to this group also but I've been around the
        SCA for more that 10 years. I was an archery marshal
        in Meridies, was a combat archer (and will be again at
        the next Gulf Wars) and now live in the hinterlands of
        Ansteorra. While you parents may be totally against
        the idea of war, the wars of the time period we study
        also gave rise to the idea of chivalry. This is the
        main theme of the SCA, not war; to strive to become
        the living embodiment of an ideal often not found
        anywhere in today's "modern" society. Some of the the
        knightly virtures are strength, faith, charity, hope,
        humility and generosity. All women are to be treated
        with respect and gentility, not just those for whom
        beauty comes easy. Come to the aid of those less
        fortunate than yourself. Service, to do because you
        see the need. And to become a Bestowed (Knight,
        Laurel, Pelican) or a Royal Peer means your service
        has only just begun. And the bards around camp are
        not singing about murder, rape and drugs either.

        Caoilfionn
        protege to Countess Rhiannon of the Isle
        www.housedragonor.org




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      • Scott B. Jaqua
        The Honorable Lord Carolus wrote a wonderfully thought out reply. And I believe him to be correct in just about every way. To that that I can only add my own
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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          The Honorable Lord Carolus wrote a wonderfully thought out reply. And I
          believe him to be correct in just about every way. To that that I can
          only add my own feelings Austin.

          As a student of history (and most in the SCA are to greater or lessor
          degrees), I find myself sickened by the war and strife in the real
          world. It is proof positive that the only thing most people learn from
          history, is that they have learned nothing. We (as in our leaders) are
          still repeating the mistakes of the past. Nations and people continue to
          make war on each other for the same ancient hatreds and petty reasons,
          no mater how they dress it up for the media. (it's a statement of what
          we do, that so many SCA folk are also political activists)

          All that aside, I am also authorized in just about every Marshal
          Activity the SCA has to offer. In part to study the history of combat,
          in part as a way to safely funnel the stress and aggression that are
          part of the human condition. And having that outlet was very important
          as a young man. Now that I'm a little older, it's not so much about
          stress and aggression, as it is about testing my self. But these are
          both good reasons to engage in marshal activity. And that's not even
          taking into account the aspects of exercise and conditioning or the
          mental discipline. And those marshal activities have also served the
          purpose of leading me to greater study of history and it's artifacts.
          And that in turn has lead me to learn a new art/craft that has been a
          joyous creative outlet these last few years.

          As Carolus said, share these posts with your parents. Or better yet,
          have them come to a practice and talk to those that are teaching. You
          may not get the same answer from everyone; but, you should get the same
          feeling more then enough times for your folks to realize, that this
          isn't some sort of warrior cult. But rather a group of people that for
          the most part are trying to learn about the past by experiencing it.

          Don Njall Olaf Hagerson
        • Kaleyna
          ... for whom beauty comes easy. Well I think we know historically that this isn t the case. Women of a certain rank and class were treated well. Peasant
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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            >>>>All women are to be treated with respect and gentility, not just those
            for whom beauty comes easy.>>>

            Well I think we know historically that this isn't the case. Women of a
            certain rank and class were treated well. Peasant women were fair game.

            As to the original question -

            Do your parents have a problem with target archery? You can always just
            shoot target archery, hone your skills, and then do combat archery when you
            are older and it is not a matter of asking your parents but an adult choice.
            I kind of think, the very well expressed notes about it not withstanding,
            that trying to convince your parents that this combat is good combat and not
            that nasty old regular war will get you nowhere. If you simply shoot for
            skill in hitting a target is can be along the lines of darts when explaining
            it to your folks. And you can also play up the historical aspects of the
            society and how you can learn about different cultures and the past.

            Kathy
          • Kay Newsom
            Kathy, Remember this is the Middle Ages as it should have been. K. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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              Kathy,
              Remember this is the Middle Ages as it should have
              been.

              K.





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            • Kaleyna
              ... been. Yes. But you had written that the real warfare led to chivalry so you had been writing of the actually times not our practice of it. Kathy
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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                >>>Kathy, Remember this is the Middle Ages as it should have
                been.>>

                Yes. But you had written that the real warfare led to chivalry so you had
                been writing of the actually times not our practice of it.

                Kathy
              • ronan morton
                Greetings Austin, I hope the best for you but you might try and bring your parents to a practice and let them meet some of the people who already call the SCA
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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                  Greetings Austin,

                  I hope the best for you but you might try and bring your parents to a
                  practice and let them meet some of the people who already call the SCA home.
                  My advice to you is to never go behind their's or anyone else's back but
                  to be open about all that you do and that may impress them in itself. Most
                  of the people who come around to meet our shire are impressed that we know
                  so much about history and the skills from the time period that we portray.
                  Some people come to us thinking that we are a bunch of stick swinging jerks
                  who like pain. When most people learn that our shire has about a dozen
                  public school teachers in it and that a large part of the SCA is devoted to
                  education and the Arts they are very surprised. Worst case scenario be
                  patient and in 6 months you are free to join and participate as an adult.

                  Best of luck,
                  Ronan MacMorton
                • Jeffrey Webb
                  Greetings Austin and the list, While it may seem difficult and frustrating to abide by your parents wishes and rules, they are afterall your parents, they love
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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                    Greetings Austin and the list,
                    While it may seem difficult and frustrating to abide by your parents wishes and rules, they are afterall your parents, they love you and have your best interests and safety in mind. While I may not agree with their sentiments regarding our group, I must respect their intentions.
                    Another member of this list suggested that you ask your parents to accompany you to an SCA event, that's a very good idea. SCA events are very family friendly and who knows, they may actually enjoy themselves and become members.
                    I remember being 17 (although that was over 35 years ago, when rocks were soft and the Dead Sea was only just a little sick) and I was a very rebellious teen that rode with bike gangs and raised merry H*ll.
                    My dad was a methodist minister and gave me plenty of rope and as a typical PK, I practically hanged myself. We argued constantly over politics, religion, my choice of girlfriends, etc. We argued and argued and argued. Later on, we became best of friends when I was in my 20's and my dad was my best man at my wedding. When I became involved in the SCA, both of my parents would occassionally attend events and enjoyed themselves. My point?
                    Right now, you think they are cramping your style and unfairly keeping you from what you want to do. Every teenager thinks that. In six months, you can do as you wish and make your own choices, but do yourself a favor when that time comes....don't shut your parents out. You may not agree wih them, but, they love you and are always going to care about you.
                    -Geoffrei
                  • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                    And I was never like Geoffrei... I did everything my parents wanted me to. But that does not mean I cannot agree with him on this point. Well put. James
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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                      And I was never like Geoffrei... I did everything my parents wanted me to.
                      But that does not mean I cannot agree with him on this point. Well put.

                      James Cunningham
                      The good son

                      > Greetings Austin and the list,
                      > While it may seem difficult and frustrating to abide by your parents
                      wishes and rules, they are afterall your parents, they love you and have
                      your best interests and safety in mind. While I may not agree with their
                      sentiments regarding our group, I must respect their intentions.
                      > Another member of this list suggested that you ask your parents to
                      accompany you to an SCA event, that's a very good idea. SCA events are very
                      family friendly and who knows, they may actually enjoy themselves and become
                      members.
                      > I remember being 17 (although that was over 35 years ago, when rocks
                      were soft and the Dead Sea was only just a little sick) and I was a very
                      rebellious teen that rode with bike gangs and raised merry H*ll.
                      > My dad was a methodist minister and gave me plenty of rope and as a
                      typical PK, I practically hanged myself. We argued constantly over politics,
                      religion, my choice of girlfriends, etc. We argued and argued and argued.
                      Later on, we became best of friends when I was in my 20's and my dad was my
                      best man at my wedding. When I became involved in the SCA, both of my
                      parents would occassionally attend events and enjoyed themselves. My point?
                      > Right now, you think they are cramping your style and unfairly keeping you
                      from what you want to do. Every teenager thinks that. In six months, you can
                      do as you wish and make your own choices, but do yourself a favor when that
                      time comes....don't shut your parents out. You may not agree wih them, but,
                      they love you and are always going to care about you.
                      > ->
                      > Geoffrei

                      >
                      > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                    • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                      Actually, the warfare of the age DID lead to the concept of chivalry as we practice it. The fact that that concept saw little if any practical application at
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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                        Actually, the warfare of the age DID lead to the concept of chivalry as we
                        practice it. The fact that that concept saw little if any practical
                        application at the time is irrelevant. What is important is what WE do
                        with the concept.
                        Carolus

                        At 12:49 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:


                        > >>>Kathy, Remember this is the Middle Ages as it should have
                        >been.>>
                        >
                        >Yes. But you had written that the real warfare led to chivalry so you had
                        >been writing of the actually times not our practice of it.
                        >
                        >Kathy
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • Cian of Storvik
                        I would probably ease into it. As far as the SCA being war minded . I would suggest that you look at the SCA.ORG information page OVERVIEW AND DESCRIPTION OF
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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                          I would probably ease into it.
                          As far as the SCA being "war minded". I would suggest that you look at
                          the SCA.ORG information page "OVERVIEW AND DESCRIPTION OF THE SCA". If
                          you spend any time in the SCA you will see that there is a living
                          history aspect to it, as well as the sporting qualities. Very few
                          people are in the SCA soley to whack people with a rattan stick.
                          Anyone that wants to join he SCA because they want to bash people will
                          either get very bored or very banned (for using excessive force).

                          I would mention that you have an interest in traditional target
                          Archery. Archery is a non-contact sport and not aggressive at all.
                          Concentration, hand-eye coordination and practice are key elements to
                          good target archery. Traditional archery is using bows like they would
                          have used in period over 100 years ago. Not the modern "gun bows" with
                          mechanical multiplying pulleys and hair-sights/peeps/trigger releases
                          that remove all the natural skills required to shoot a bow. The SCA is
                          one of the few organizations that not only aknowledge traditional bow
                          use, but actually promote their use and understanding.

                          If they are puzzled by your sudden interest in Archery, just pick-up
                          some articles from Maurice Thompson and leave them conspicuously about
                          the house. Maurice Thompson wrote very poetic annecdotes of archery
                          nearly 125 years ago in "Witchery of Archery" and many articles for
                          magazines and papers. Though he wrote of bow hunting and not target
                          archery, his revelations of observing nature in all of it's splender
                          drew in a new rennaissance of bow use over generations.

                          "Give me a fortnight of freedom in the woods of spring, and I will
                          find a freshness infinitely changeable, an originality varying with
                          every puff of the breeze. Give me an outing; you might as well, for
                          otherwise I shall take it by force; I must have it. And what is an
                          outing in the green woods to him who bears not the longbow?

                          Now, if you ask why the longbow is to be lugged in, I answer, because.
                          It goes, or I stay. I would rather delve at my desk, with the good yew
                          unstrung standing there in the corner beside the ancient tall clock,
                          than to undertake a ramble in the hill-country without that trusty
                          monochord across my arm. We have been boon companions these many
                          years, my bow and I, and it is now too late for a change of relation;
                          we go together into green solitudes and find the places where Diana's
                          footprints are yet almost visible, the spot, still warm, where Pan
                          took his noonday nap"

                          I would get them acclimated to the other aspects of the SCA before you
                          even allude to the fact that you are interested in combat.
                          "Combat" is no worse then Football, soccer, karate or other contact
                          sport. Combat will give you bruises to an extent (depending on the
                          amount and placement of the armor you wear), but the SCA takes very
                          serious measures to minimize medical injuries. And comparatively safe
                          compared to rugby, hockey or field hockey in my opinion.

                          Good luck and may all your arrows fly unerringly to their mark.
                          -Cian
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