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Re: [SCA-Archery] Want to start archery, parental advisory

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  • Lord Caedmon Wilson
    Your parents will be happy to know that we aren t really at war when fight a war . Think of it as a giant mosh pit...with sticks. -- Lord Caedmon Wilson
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 1 4:57 AM
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      Your parents will be happy to know that we aren't really at "war" when
      fight a "war". Think of it as a giant mosh pit...with sticks.

      --
      Lord Caedmon Wilson

      Oaken Regional Youth Combat Marshal
      Crossbow Archery Champion, Barony Flaming Gryphon
      Rapier Champion, South Oaken Region
    • Carolus von Eulenhorst
      Austin, I am the Caidan Master of Archers, responsible for Target Archery, not Combat Archery, but I may be able to help. As a Kingdom officer, I have direct
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 1 7:17 AM
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        Austin,
        I am the Caidan Master of Archers, responsible for Target Archery, not
        Combat Archery, but I may be able to help. As a Kingdom officer, I have
        direct insight into the goals and purposes of the organization. While we
        speak of "War" and "combat" and reflect a martial society, our purpose is
        to study history and society of the Western world prior to the 17th
        century. In was a contradictory time known both as "The age of Faith" and
        responsible for the development of the philosophical thought which lead to
        today's opposition to war, and a time of some of the most extended periods
        of armed conflict the world has seen. We study all of this, the arts of
        peace as well as the arts of war. We use a sport (a "martial art") to
        simulate the "war" part and talk of it in military terms. But this sport
        is essentially like Judo, fencing, Karate, or any of the other "martial
        arts" sports in the world today. The sport teaches discipline, teamwork,
        reliability, trustworthiness, and physical skill. It is not "war" in the
        real sense. In fact, most people I know have come to hate the idea of war
        in the real world because our activities have shown, in a very up-close and
        personal way, just what war means. Think of what we do as a teaching tool,
        one which teaches peace by showing in a safe manner just why war should be
        avoided. Please show them this message and ask them to email me if they
        have any questions.

        THL Carolus von Eulenhorst

        At 07:52 AM 7/22/2005, you wrote:

        >Hail All,
        >
        >My name is Austin and I am really interested in joining the SCA and
        >becoming a Calafian Combat Archer. My problem is that I am 17.5 and I
        >am working on ways to convince my parents to let me go to local
        >archery practices and not freak out about "combat" archery, they hate
        >war. I have money to go out and get my own stuff, but if I do things
        >behind their backs I will be out of a home when I turn 18(nice
        >parents). Any help here would be most excellent in convincing them.
        >
        >A Thousand Thank
        >
        >-Austin
        >
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      • Kay Newsom
        I m new to this group also but I ve been around the SCA for more that 10 years. I was an archery marshal in Meridies, was a combat archer (and will be again
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 1 10:03 AM
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          I'm new to this group also but I've been around the
          SCA for more that 10 years. I was an archery marshal
          in Meridies, was a combat archer (and will be again at
          the next Gulf Wars) and now live in the hinterlands of
          Ansteorra. While you parents may be totally against
          the idea of war, the wars of the time period we study
          also gave rise to the idea of chivalry. This is the
          main theme of the SCA, not war; to strive to become
          the living embodiment of an ideal often not found
          anywhere in today's "modern" society. Some of the the
          knightly virtures are strength, faith, charity, hope,
          humility and generosity. All women are to be treated
          with respect and gentility, not just those for whom
          beauty comes easy. Come to the aid of those less
          fortunate than yourself. Service, to do because you
          see the need. And to become a Bestowed (Knight,
          Laurel, Pelican) or a Royal Peer means your service
          has only just begun. And the bards around camp are
          not singing about murder, rape and drugs either.

          Caoilfionn
          protege to Countess Rhiannon of the Isle
          www.housedragonor.org




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        • Scott B. Jaqua
          The Honorable Lord Carolus wrote a wonderfully thought out reply. And I believe him to be correct in just about every way. To that that I can only add my own
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 1 10:12 AM
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            The Honorable Lord Carolus wrote a wonderfully thought out reply. And I
            believe him to be correct in just about every way. To that that I can
            only add my own feelings Austin.

            As a student of history (and most in the SCA are to greater or lessor
            degrees), I find myself sickened by the war and strife in the real
            world. It is proof positive that the only thing most people learn from
            history, is that they have learned nothing. We (as in our leaders) are
            still repeating the mistakes of the past. Nations and people continue to
            make war on each other for the same ancient hatreds and petty reasons,
            no mater how they dress it up for the media. (it's a statement of what
            we do, that so many SCA folk are also political activists)

            All that aside, I am also authorized in just about every Marshal
            Activity the SCA has to offer. In part to study the history of combat,
            in part as a way to safely funnel the stress and aggression that are
            part of the human condition. And having that outlet was very important
            as a young man. Now that I'm a little older, it's not so much about
            stress and aggression, as it is about testing my self. But these are
            both good reasons to engage in marshal activity. And that's not even
            taking into account the aspects of exercise and conditioning or the
            mental discipline. And those marshal activities have also served the
            purpose of leading me to greater study of history and it's artifacts.
            And that in turn has lead me to learn a new art/craft that has been a
            joyous creative outlet these last few years.

            As Carolus said, share these posts with your parents. Or better yet,
            have them come to a practice and talk to those that are teaching. You
            may not get the same answer from everyone; but, you should get the same
            feeling more then enough times for your folks to realize, that this
            isn't some sort of warrior cult. But rather a group of people that for
            the most part are trying to learn about the past by experiencing it.

            Don Njall Olaf Hagerson
          • Kaleyna
            ... for whom beauty comes easy. Well I think we know historically that this isn t the case. Women of a certain rank and class were treated well. Peasant
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 1 11:10 AM
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              >>>>All women are to be treated with respect and gentility, not just those
              for whom beauty comes easy.>>>

              Well I think we know historically that this isn't the case. Women of a
              certain rank and class were treated well. Peasant women were fair game.

              As to the original question -

              Do your parents have a problem with target archery? You can always just
              shoot target archery, hone your skills, and then do combat archery when you
              are older and it is not a matter of asking your parents but an adult choice.
              I kind of think, the very well expressed notes about it not withstanding,
              that trying to convince your parents that this combat is good combat and not
              that nasty old regular war will get you nowhere. If you simply shoot for
              skill in hitting a target is can be along the lines of darts when explaining
              it to your folks. And you can also play up the historical aspects of the
              society and how you can learn about different cultures and the past.

              Kathy
            • Kay Newsom
              Kathy, Remember this is the Middle Ages as it should have been. K. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 1 12:45 PM
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                Kathy,
                Remember this is the Middle Ages as it should have
                been.

                K.





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              • Kaleyna
                ... been. Yes. But you had written that the real warfare led to chivalry so you had been writing of the actually times not our practice of it. Kathy
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 1 12:49 PM
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                  >>>Kathy, Remember this is the Middle Ages as it should have
                  been.>>

                  Yes. But you had written that the real warfare led to chivalry so you had
                  been writing of the actually times not our practice of it.

                  Kathy
                • ronan morton
                  Greetings Austin, I hope the best for you but you might try and bring your parents to a practice and let them meet some of the people who already call the SCA
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 1 2:57 PM
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                    Greetings Austin,

                    I hope the best for you but you might try and bring your parents to a
                    practice and let them meet some of the people who already call the SCA home.
                    My advice to you is to never go behind their's or anyone else's back but
                    to be open about all that you do and that may impress them in itself. Most
                    of the people who come around to meet our shire are impressed that we know
                    so much about history and the skills from the time period that we portray.
                    Some people come to us thinking that we are a bunch of stick swinging jerks
                    who like pain. When most people learn that our shire has about a dozen
                    public school teachers in it and that a large part of the SCA is devoted to
                    education and the Arts they are very surprised. Worst case scenario be
                    patient and in 6 months you are free to join and participate as an adult.

                    Best of luck,
                    Ronan MacMorton
                  • Jeffrey Webb
                    Greetings Austin and the list, While it may seem difficult and frustrating to abide by your parents wishes and rules, they are afterall your parents, they love
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 1 5:44 PM
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                      Greetings Austin and the list,
                      While it may seem difficult and frustrating to abide by your parents wishes and rules, they are afterall your parents, they love you and have your best interests and safety in mind. While I may not agree with their sentiments regarding our group, I must respect their intentions.
                      Another member of this list suggested that you ask your parents to accompany you to an SCA event, that's a very good idea. SCA events are very family friendly and who knows, they may actually enjoy themselves and become members.
                      I remember being 17 (although that was over 35 years ago, when rocks were soft and the Dead Sea was only just a little sick) and I was a very rebellious teen that rode with bike gangs and raised merry H*ll.
                      My dad was a methodist minister and gave me plenty of rope and as a typical PK, I practically hanged myself. We argued constantly over politics, religion, my choice of girlfriends, etc. We argued and argued and argued. Later on, we became best of friends when I was in my 20's and my dad was my best man at my wedding. When I became involved in the SCA, both of my parents would occassionally attend events and enjoyed themselves. My point?
                      Right now, you think they are cramping your style and unfairly keeping you from what you want to do. Every teenager thinks that. In six months, you can do as you wish and make your own choices, but do yourself a favor when that time comes....don't shut your parents out. You may not agree wih them, but, they love you and are always going to care about you.
                      -Geoffrei
                    • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                      And I was never like Geoffrei... I did everything my parents wanted me to. But that does not mean I cannot agree with him on this point. Well put. James
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 1 8:03 PM
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                        And I was never like Geoffrei... I did everything my parents wanted me to.
                        But that does not mean I cannot agree with him on this point. Well put.

                        James Cunningham
                        The good son

                        > Greetings Austin and the list,
                        > While it may seem difficult and frustrating to abide by your parents
                        wishes and rules, they are afterall your parents, they love you and have
                        your best interests and safety in mind. While I may not agree with their
                        sentiments regarding our group, I must respect their intentions.
                        > Another member of this list suggested that you ask your parents to
                        accompany you to an SCA event, that's a very good idea. SCA events are very
                        family friendly and who knows, they may actually enjoy themselves and become
                        members.
                        > I remember being 17 (although that was over 35 years ago, when rocks
                        were soft and the Dead Sea was only just a little sick) and I was a very
                        rebellious teen that rode with bike gangs and raised merry H*ll.
                        > My dad was a methodist minister and gave me plenty of rope and as a
                        typical PK, I practically hanged myself. We argued constantly over politics,
                        religion, my choice of girlfriends, etc. We argued and argued and argued.
                        Later on, we became best of friends when I was in my 20's and my dad was my
                        best man at my wedding. When I became involved in the SCA, both of my
                        parents would occassionally attend events and enjoyed themselves. My point?
                        > Right now, you think they are cramping your style and unfairly keeping you
                        from what you want to do. Every teenager thinks that. In six months, you can
                        do as you wish and make your own choices, but do yourself a favor when that
                        time comes....don't shut your parents out. You may not agree wih them, but,
                        they love you and are always going to care about you.
                        > ->
                        > Geoffrei

                        >
                        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                      • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                        Actually, the warfare of the age DID lead to the concept of chivalry as we practice it. The fact that that concept saw little if any practical application at
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 1 9:26 PM
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                          Actually, the warfare of the age DID lead to the concept of chivalry as we
                          practice it. The fact that that concept saw little if any practical
                          application at the time is irrelevant. What is important is what WE do
                          with the concept.
                          Carolus

                          At 12:49 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:


                          > >>>Kathy, Remember this is the Middle Ages as it should have
                          >been.>>
                          >
                          >Yes. But you had written that the real warfare led to chivalry so you had
                          >been writing of the actually times not our practice of it.
                          >
                          >Kathy
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                        • Cian of Storvik
                          I would probably ease into it. As far as the SCA being war minded . I would suggest that you look at the SCA.ORG information page OVERVIEW AND DESCRIPTION OF
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 1 10:26 PM
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                            I would probably ease into it.
                            As far as the SCA being "war minded". I would suggest that you look at
                            the SCA.ORG information page "OVERVIEW AND DESCRIPTION OF THE SCA". If
                            you spend any time in the SCA you will see that there is a living
                            history aspect to it, as well as the sporting qualities. Very few
                            people are in the SCA soley to whack people with a rattan stick.
                            Anyone that wants to join he SCA because they want to bash people will
                            either get very bored or very banned (for using excessive force).

                            I would mention that you have an interest in traditional target
                            Archery. Archery is a non-contact sport and not aggressive at all.
                            Concentration, hand-eye coordination and practice are key elements to
                            good target archery. Traditional archery is using bows like they would
                            have used in period over 100 years ago. Not the modern "gun bows" with
                            mechanical multiplying pulleys and hair-sights/peeps/trigger releases
                            that remove all the natural skills required to shoot a bow. The SCA is
                            one of the few organizations that not only aknowledge traditional bow
                            use, but actually promote their use and understanding.

                            If they are puzzled by your sudden interest in Archery, just pick-up
                            some articles from Maurice Thompson and leave them conspicuously about
                            the house. Maurice Thompson wrote very poetic annecdotes of archery
                            nearly 125 years ago in "Witchery of Archery" and many articles for
                            magazines and papers. Though he wrote of bow hunting and not target
                            archery, his revelations of observing nature in all of it's splender
                            drew in a new rennaissance of bow use over generations.

                            "Give me a fortnight of freedom in the woods of spring, and I will
                            find a freshness infinitely changeable, an originality varying with
                            every puff of the breeze. Give me an outing; you might as well, for
                            otherwise I shall take it by force; I must have it. And what is an
                            outing in the green woods to him who bears not the longbow?

                            Now, if you ask why the longbow is to be lugged in, I answer, because.
                            It goes, or I stay. I would rather delve at my desk, with the good yew
                            unstrung standing there in the corner beside the ancient tall clock,
                            than to undertake a ramble in the hill-country without that trusty
                            monochord across my arm. We have been boon companions these many
                            years, my bow and I, and it is now too late for a change of relation;
                            we go together into green solitudes and find the places where Diana's
                            footprints are yet almost visible, the spot, still warm, where Pan
                            took his noonday nap"

                            I would get them acclimated to the other aspects of the SCA before you
                            even allude to the fact that you are interested in combat.
                            "Combat" is no worse then Football, soccer, karate or other contact
                            sport. Combat will give you bruises to an extent (depending on the
                            amount and placement of the armor you wear), but the SCA takes very
                            serious measures to minimize medical injuries. And comparatively safe
                            compared to rugby, hockey or field hockey in my opinion.

                            Good luck and may all your arrows fly unerringly to their mark.
                            -Cian
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