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RE: [SCA-Archery] peiod target points

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  • RJ bachner
    Try googling ace archery tackle and look up their bodkin points for targets. Very cool and sca legal. But spendy. Ragi ... From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 27, 2005
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      Try googling ace archery tackle and look up their bodkin points for targets.
      Very cool and sca legal. But spendy.

      Ragi

      -----Original Message-----
      From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Joseph
      Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 11:31 PM
      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] peiod target points

      does anyone here know of a supplier for period targt points, or at least
      accepted by the sca. the last place i found was in the uk and could/would not
      ship to the US.

      formerly of Raven's Cove ;Atlantia
      Now in Westumbria

      Joseph MacKay the Fletcher





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    • Kristine Casper
      Joseph: I get modbods from a guy in Norway - you can see what they look like on my web page: www.1arrow.net Look at the points on the footed shafts at the
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 27, 2005
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        Joseph:

        I get "modbods" from a guy in Norway - you can see what they look like on my
        web page: www.1arrow.net Look at the points on the footed shafts at the
        bottom. These have been accepted at numerous SCA events.

        Ace Archery & Tackle has a killer-looking modbod
        (http://www.bowsite2.com/aceshopping/product1.asp?SID=2&Product_ID=149), but
        I've found them to be very hard to recover from any sort of "healing" target
        butt (soft foam, that curly wood-shaving stuff, etc.) and they often are
        lost in those bails - no matter what I have used to attach them to the
        shafts.

        I have used bodkins, but I saw one blow through a bail, through backstop
        netting, and pierce the metal door behind that. Although this was at an SCA
        event, and the points were approved by the MiC, I would not allow them on
        the line in most circumstances; maybe with a very light bow, a short draw,
        and a long back-field.

        I'll have to look up the Norway contact. I can't put my finger on it just
        now.

        Laebeth

        -----Original Message-----
        From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com]On
        Behalf Of Joseph
        Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 9:31 PM
        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] peiod target points


        does anyone here know of a supplier for period targt points, or at
        least accepted by the sca. the last place i found was in the uk and
        could/would not ship to the US.

        formerly of Raven's Cove ;Atlantia
        Now in Westumbria

        Joseph MacKay the Fletcher





        ---8<---------------------------------------------
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        Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/

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      • Cian of Storvik
        I think target shooting wasn t much of a sport until the 17th-18th century. Until then, it was more of a martial or victualing activity, and when you did
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 27, 2005
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          I think "target" shooting wasn't much of a sport until the 17th-18th
          century. Until then, it was more of a martial or victualing activity,
          and when you did practice you probably practiced with the war steeles
          or hunting tips that you normally would be shooting.

          Hector Cole will ship to the USA. He makes roving tips (The activity
          of roving about the country side shooting stumps, fallen trees and the
          like), but they will probably bounce right off of foam targets. And
          you will pay a hefty price in shipping. He does do custom work, and a
          very large assortment of styles that he makes, which might contain
          something you would want. His "Target heads" look like modern target
          heads (the german brass ones), but hand forged steel and though they
          are the cheapest point he makes, they cost 5 quid ea. (about $9.50).

          I have a few Hector Cole bodkins (hardened steel) and I agree you
          wouldn't want to use them anywhere that you had a backstop netting, or
          something you didn't want torn up/killed. They are not exactly razor
          sharp (like a modern broad head), but still like adding a heavy dagger
          tip to the end of an arrow.
          -Cian of Storvik

          > does anyone here know of a supplier for period targt points, or at
          > least accepted by the sca.
        • Eadric Anstapa
          ... Ace makes a Classic Point but they are mondo expensive. They also make some nice brass points. Here is a Tiny URL for their web page
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 27, 2005
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            >>does anyone here know of a supplier for period targt points, or at
            >>least accepted by the sca.
            >>
            >>
            Ace makes a "Classic Point" but they are mondo expensive. They also
            make some nice brass points.
            Here is a Tiny URL for their web page *http://tinyurl.com/b77l6
            *
            3Rivers has brass points
            http://www.3riversarchery.com/ListProduct.asp?offset=8

            and they have some medieval replicas
            http://www.3riversarchery.com/Product.asp?c=13&s=11&p=0&i=4355-01
            <http://www.3riversarchery.com/Product.asp?c=13&s=11&p=0&i=4355-01>


            Regards,

            -EA



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • blooney@wi.rr.com
            Joseph, For the modbods Laebeth is talking about the link is -- http://www.traditional-archery-scandinavia.com/englisch/heads.html They re item TA. They are
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 27, 2005
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              Joseph,

              For the "modbods" Laebeth is talking about the link is --

              http://www.traditional-archery-scandinavia.com/englisch/heads.html

              They're item TA. They are really nice looking! If I recall they're a
              little heavier than the "standard" 125 grain point.

              William of Mann

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Kristine Casper <laebeth@...>
              Date: Monday, June 27, 2005 10:02 pm
              Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] period target points

              > Joseph:
              >
              > I get "modbods" from a guy in Norway - you can see what they look
              > like on my
              > web page: www.1arrow.net Look at the points on the footed shafts
              > at the
              > bottom. These have been accepted at numerous SCA events.
              >
              > Ace Archery & Tackle has a killer-looking modbod
              > (http://www.bowsite2.com/aceshopping/product1.asp?
              SID=2&Product_ID=149), but
              > I've found them to be very hard to recover from any sort of
              > "healing" target
              > butt (soft foam, that curly wood-shaving stuff, etc.) and they
              > often are
              > lost in those bails - no matter what I have used to attach them to
              the
              > shafts.
              >
              > I have used bodkins, but I saw one blow through a bail, through
              > backstopnetting, and pierce the metal door behind that. Although
              > this was at an SCA
              > event, and the points were approved by the MiC, I would not allow
              > them on
              > the line in most circumstances; maybe with a very light bow, a
              > short draw,
              > and a long back-field.
              >
              > I'll have to look up the Norway contact. I can't put my finger on
              > it just
              > now.
              >
              > Laebeth
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-
              > Archery@yahoogroups.com]OnBehalf Of Joseph
              > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 9:31 PM
              > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [SCA-Archery] peiod target points
              >
              >
              > does anyone here know of a supplier for period targt points, or at
              > least accepted by the sca. the last place i found was in the uk and
              > could/would not ship to the US.
              >
              > formerly of Raven's Cove ;Atlantia
              > Now in Westumbria
              >
              > Joseph MacKay the Fletcher
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---8<---------------------------------------------
              > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
              > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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              > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---8<---------------------------------------------
              > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
              > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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              > Yahoo! Groups Links
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              >
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              >
            • Carolus von Eulenhorst
              Ascham writes of the sport of target shooting and that he taught princess Elizabeth to shoot and that her father, Henry Tudor also shot at targets. Other
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 27, 2005
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                Ascham writes of the sport of target shooting and that he taught princess
                Elizabeth to shoot and that her father, Henry Tudor also shot at
                targets. Other references also speak of archery as a sport of nobles and
                talk of shooting at targets.
                Carolus

                At 08:32 PM 6/27/2005, you wrote:

                >I think "target" shooting wasn't much of a sport until the 17th-18th
                >century. Until then, it was more of a martial or victualing activity,
                >and when you did practice you probably practiced with the war steeles
                >or hunting tips that you normally would be shooting.
                >
                >Hector Cole will ship to the USA. He makes roving tips (The activity
                >of roving about the country side shooting stumps, fallen trees and the
                >like), but they will probably bounce right off of foam targets. And
                >you will pay a hefty price in shipping. He does do custom work, and a
                >very large assortment of styles that he makes, which might contain
                >something you would want. His "Target heads" look like modern target
                >heads (the german brass ones), but hand forged steel and though they
                >are the cheapest point he makes, they cost 5 quid ea. (about $9.50).
                >
                >I have a few Hector Cole bodkins (hardened steel) and I agree you
                >wouldn't want to use them anywhere that you had a backstop netting, or
                >something you didn't want torn up/killed. They are not exactly razor
                >sharp (like a modern broad head), but still like adding a heavy dagger
                >tip to the end of an arrow.
                >-Cian of Storvik
                >
                > > does anyone here know of a supplier for period targt points, or at
                > > least accepted by the sca.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >---8<---------------------------------------------
                >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                >
                >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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              • Siegfried
                ... Actually Cian ... there is much documentation of target shooting in 16th (and 15th) centuries. Not the least of which is Ascham s book which speaks
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 28, 2005
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                  On 6/27/05, Cian of Storvik <terry@...> wrote:
                  > I think "target" shooting wasn't much of a sport until the 17th-18th
                  > century. Until then, it was more of a martial or victualing activity,
                  > and when you did practice you probably practiced with the war steeles
                  > or hunting tips that you normally would be shooting.

                  Actually Cian ... there is much documentation of target shooting in
                  16th (and 15th) centuries. Not the least of which is Ascham's book
                  which speaks solely of this.

                  Also there is especially lots of documentation of 16th century
                  crossbow target shooting, with entire ranges being built for it's
                  purpose (some really nice illustrations of which exist as well).

                  I have even seen documentation (sorry, dunno from where now),
                  documenting a 'roving range' type shoot in period. With various
                  differently shaped targets set up that you went to and shot at.

                  Siegfried


                  --
                  _________________________________________________________________________
                  THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
                  Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
                  Kingdom of Atlantia -Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                  http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
                • Nest verch Tangwistel
                  ... A long time ago, in a galaxy far....wait wrong story sorry. A long time ago someone showed us a manuscript illumination which appeared to show archers,
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 28, 2005
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                    --- Siegfried <SiegfriedFaust@...> wrote:
                    > Actually Cian ... there is much documentation of target shooting in
                    > 16th (and 15th) centuries. Not the least of which is Ascham's book
                    > which speaks solely of this.
                    >
                    > Also there is especially lots of documentation of 16th century
                    > crossbow target shooting, with entire ranges being built for it's
                    > purpose (some really nice illustrations of which exist as well).
                    >
                    > I have even seen documentation (sorry, dunno from where now),
                    > documenting a 'roving range' type shoot in period. With various
                    > differently shaped targets set up that you went to and shot at.
                    >
                    > Siegfried

                    A long time ago, in a galaxy far....wait wrong story sorry.

                    A long time ago someone showed us a manuscript illumination which appeared
                    to show archers, crossbowman I think, shooting at what looked like a giant
                    dart board mounted on a roofed wall. Does anybody have a link to that
                    picture anymore? I am having ideas about a period shoot using a copy of
                    it.

                    Nest

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                  • Cian of Storvik
                    I do stand corrected, as I m not an auhority on the subject. But in my readings, I ve never seen a target tip or reference to one in the English pre 1600
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 28, 2005
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                      I do stand corrected, as I'm not an auhority on the subject. But in my
                      readings, I've never seen a target tip or reference to one in the
                      English pre 1600 period. All of the tips, even on pictures of archers
                      at tournament, look like they have bodkins or leaf points, and not the
                      bullet or field tipping like we have on our modern target points.
                      (Woodblock prints and illustrations, the points are exceptionally long
                      like bodkins, or leaf shaped, not like our stubby bullet tips.
                      Artistic license maybe? And roving tips I know where used in the
                      1800's, but I had never seen a reference to the tips prior to that
                      period).
                      Medieval tournaments, I was assuming were competed in by military and
                      hunting champions (people who would have shot leaf or bodkin points on
                      a regular basis). I didn't realize that the populace
                      of the middle ages had so much free time that they could "target
                      shoot" as a liesurely activity nor that there was so much
                      documentation for people that did not shoot people or animals but
                      practiced shooting targets for target shooting sake.
                      I can imagine that such great quantitites of individuals who were
                      competition shooters would of course had a need for a "Target tip",
                      that would extract easily from a butt. Unlike a bodkin or leaf point.
                      And logically there must be an example of
                      these tips somewhere.
                      -Cian

                      > I have even seen documentation (sorry, dunno from where now),
                      > documenting a 'roving range' type shoot in period. With various
                      > differently shaped targets set up that you went to and shot at.
                    • agnarr
                      ... From: Nest verch Tangwistel To: Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 7:55 AM Subject: [SCA-Archery] 16th C
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 28, 2005
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Nest verch Tangwistel" <eastarch@...>
                        To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 7:55 AM
                        Subject: [SCA-Archery] 16th C picture


                        I believe your referring to the picture from the Hennessy Book of Hours by
                        Simon Bening from the 1530's. The manuscript picture of the Corssbows is
                        located at:

                        http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/AHTBQhFMLsG0t5tbOh89LjDTg4cZ484dwSAXmo-mSx3X1nckeVwBXBztA9wNDX0VOpaAeQFmQitULau2iBkuAy9Cg5Ln/Targets/xbow%20target.jpg

                        (I looked in the groups archived messages and the original posting to this
                        was message #13680 back back in Oct of 2003.)

                        I hope this is the right picture that your looking for.

                        Agnarr


                        > A long time ago, in a galaxy far....wait wrong story sorry.
                        >
                        > A long time ago someone showed us a manuscript illumination which appeared
                        > to show archers, crossbowman I think, shooting at what looked like a giant
                        > dart board mounted on a roofed wall. Does anybody have a link to that
                        > picture anymore? I am having ideas about a period shoot using a copy of
                        > it.
                        >
                        > Nest
                      • Nest verch Tangwistel
                        Excellent, thank you very much. That is indeed the one I was referring to. Now I just have to keep from losing the reference again. Nest ...
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 28, 2005
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                          Excellent, thank you very much. That is indeed the one I was referring to.
                          Now I just have to keep from losing the reference again.

                          Nest

                          --- agnarr <agnarr@...> wrote:

                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Nest verch Tangwistel" <eastarch@...>
                          > To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 7:55 AM
                          > Subject: [SCA-Archery] 16th C picture
                          >
                          >
                          > I believe your referring to the picture from the Hennessy Book of Hours
                          > by
                          > Simon Bening from the 1530's. The manuscript picture of the Corssbows
                          > is
                          > located at:
                          >
                          >
                          http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/AHTBQhFMLsG0t5tbOh89LjDTg4cZ484dwSAXmo-mSx3X1nckeVwBXBztA9wNDX0VOpaAeQFmQitULau2iBkuAy9Cg5Ln/Targets/xbow%20target.jpg
                          >
                          > (I looked in the groups archived messages and the original posting to
                          > this
                          > was message #13680 back back in Oct of 2003.)
                          >
                          > I hope this is the right picture that your looking for.
                          >
                          > Agnarr
                          >
                          >
                          > > A long time ago, in a galaxy far....wait wrong story sorry.
                          > >
                          > > A long time ago someone showed us a manuscript illumination which
                          > appeared
                          > > to show archers, crossbowman I think, shooting at what looked like a
                          > giant
                          > > dart board mounted on a roofed wall. Does anybody have a link to that
                          > > picture anymore? I am having ideas about a period shoot using a copy
                          > of
                          > > it.
                          > >
                          > > Nest
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                          > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                          > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                          >
                          > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >




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                        • jameswolfden
                          Greetings, I read the initial post differently. I thought the gentle was looking for arrowhead that looked like a medieval tip (bodkin, leaf, or whatever) but
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 28, 2005
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                            Greetings,

                            I read the initial post differently. I thought the gentle was looking
                            for arrowhead that looked like a medieval tip (bodkin, leaf, or
                            whatever) but which would be allowed on a SCA target range. Something
                            that the line marshall isn't going to freak out about and something
                            that won't destroy the target and backing or punch through everything
                            and fly way down field.

                            One of the earliest pictures of target practise is the luttrel
                            psalter. The arrowheads used in the picture are probably some type of
                            roving head but they don't look they would be useful in hunting big
                            game. It appears as cross between blunt and target point.

                            Ascham seemed to favour some arrow described as similiar to a spoon.
                            This allowed an archer to anchor using the arrowhead as the anchor
                            point (draw until the bow hand can feel the arrowhead). This method
                            of anchoring also pops up in many chinese archery documents.

                            James Wolfden



                            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Cian of Storvik" <terry@f...>
                            wrote:
                            > I do stand corrected, as I'm not an auhority on the subject. But in
                            my
                            > readings, I've never seen a target tip or reference to one in the
                            > English pre 1600 period. All of the tips, even on pictures of
                            archers
                            > at tournament, look like they have bodkins or leaf points, and not
                            the
                            > bullet or field tipping like we have on our modern target points.
                            > (Woodblock prints and illustrations, the points are exceptionally
                            long
                            > like bodkins, or leaf shaped, not like our stubby bullet tips.
                            > Artistic license maybe? And roving tips I know where used in the
                            > 1800's, but I had never seen a reference to the tips prior to that
                            > period).
                            > Medieval tournaments, I was assuming were competed in by military
                            and
                            > hunting champions (people who would have shot leaf or bodkin points
                            on
                            > a regular basis). I didn't realize that the populace
                            > of the middle ages had so much free time that they could "target
                            > shoot" as a liesurely activity nor that there was so much
                            > documentation for people that did not shoot people or animals but
                            > practiced shooting targets for target shooting sake.
                            > I can imagine that such great quantitites of individuals who were
                            > competition shooters would of course had a need for a "Target tip",
                            > that would extract easily from a butt. Unlike a bodkin or leaf
                            point.
                            > And logically there must be an example of
                            > these tips somewhere.
                            > -Cian
                            >
                            > > I have even seen documentation (sorry, dunno from where now),
                            > > documenting a 'roving range' type shoot in period. With various
                            > > differently shaped targets set up that you went to and shot at.
                          • J. Hughes
                            There was extensive target practice, and, from the 13th century on, competitions against targets. This was the essence of the Shutzenverine that had (inside
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jun 28, 2005
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                              There was extensive target practice, and, from the
                              13th century on, competitions against targets. This
                              was the essence of the Shutzenverine that had (inside
                              the walls) archery ranges and annual Schutzenfests.
                              There are a large number of pictures of such ranges
                              and shoots in the 15th and 16th centuries. The average
                              burger did not regularly shoot anything live, but
                              regularly practiced and shot at targets.

                              Charles O'Connor

                              --- Cian of Storvik <terry@...> wrote:

                              > I do stand corrected, as I'm not an auhority on the
                              > subject. But in my
                              > readings, I've never seen a target tip or reference
                              > to one in the
                              > English pre 1600 period. All of the tips, even on
                              > pictures of archers
                              > at tournament, look like they have bodkins or leaf
                              > points, and not the
                              > bullet or field tipping like we have on our modern
                              > target points.
                              > (Woodblock prints and illustrations, the points are
                              > exceptionally long
                              > like bodkins, or leaf shaped, not like our stubby
                              > bullet tips.
                              > Artistic license maybe? And roving tips I know where
                              > used in the
                              > 1800's, but I had never seen a reference to the tips
                              > prior to that
                              > period).
                              > Medieval tournaments, I was assuming were competed
                              > in by military and
                              > hunting champions (people who would have shot leaf
                              > or bodkin points on
                              > a regular basis). I didn't realize that the populace
                              > of the middle ages had so much free time that they
                              > could "target
                              > shoot" as a liesurely activity nor that there was so
                              > much
                              > documentation for people that did not shoot people
                              > or animals but
                              > practiced shooting targets for target shooting sake.
                              > I can imagine that such great quantitites of
                              > individuals who were
                              > competition shooters would of course had a need for
                              > a "Target tip",
                              > that would extract easily from a butt. Unlike a
                              > bodkin or leaf point.
                              > And logically there must be an example of
                              > these tips somewhere.
                              > -Cian

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                            • Michael Scherrer
                              Need some help here.. What books should I look for, for infomation on these shoots. If you tell me to look up Schotzenfests it will not help, don t read
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jun 28, 2005
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                                Need some help here..
                                What books should I look for, for infomation on these shoots.
                                If you tell me to look up Schotzenfests it will not help, don't read
                                German.
                                Thomas

                                >From: "J. Hughes" <jphughessr@...>
                                >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: period target points
                                >Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:27:35 -0700 (PDT)
                                >
                                >There was extensive target practice, and, from the
                                >13th century on, competitions against targets. This
                                >was the essence of the Shutzenverine that had (inside
                                >the walls) archery ranges and annual Schutzenfests.
                                >There are a large number of pictures of such ranges
                                >and shoots in the 15th and 16th centuries. The average
                                >burger did not regularly shoot anything live, but
                                >regularly practiced and shot at targets.
                                >
                                >Charles O'Connor
                                >
                                >--- Cian of Storvik <terry@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > I do stand corrected, as I'm not an auhority on the
                                > > subject. But in my
                                > > readings, I've never seen a target tip or reference
                                > > to one in the
                                > > English pre 1600 period. All of the tips, even on
                                > > pictures of archers
                                > > at tournament, look like they have bodkins or leaf
                                > > points, and not the
                                > > bullet or field tipping like we have on our modern
                                > > target points.
                                > > (Woodblock prints and illustrations, the points are
                                > > exceptionally long
                                > > like bodkins, or leaf shaped, not like our stubby
                                > > bullet tips.
                                > > Artistic license maybe? And roving tips I know where
                                > > used in the
                                > > 1800's, but I had never seen a reference to the tips
                                > > prior to that
                                > > period).
                                > > Medieval tournaments, I was assuming were competed
                                > > in by military and
                                > > hunting champions (people who would have shot leaf
                                > > or bodkin points on
                                > > a regular basis). I didn't realize that the populace
                                > > of the middle ages had so much free time that they
                                > > could "target
                                > > shoot" as a liesurely activity nor that there was so
                                > > much
                                > > documentation for people that did not shoot people
                                > > or animals but
                                > > practiced shooting targets for target shooting sake.
                                > > I can imagine that such great quantitites of
                                > > individuals who were
                                > > competition shooters would of course had a need for
                                > > a "Target tip",
                                > > that would extract easily from a butt. Unlike a
                                > > bodkin or leaf point.
                                > > And logically there must be an example of
                                > > these tips somewhere.
                                > > -Cian
                                >
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                              • blkknighti@aol.com
                                The following is from an article I d written some years back on period arrowheads which included target points.I can t find my notes or sources but I assure
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jun 28, 2005
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                                  The following is from an article I'd written some years back on period
                                  arrowheads which included target points.I can't find my notes or sources but I
                                  assure you I didn't make the information up. The artricle also had an illustration
                                  ( again I can't remember the source) of a period target point which is refered
                                  to as a "pile". It seems to have been constructed by simply taking a
                                  trangular peice of metal and hammering it to a cone to fit the shaft. I recently
                                  tried to buy one at auction for my collection (but was out bid) and it seemed to
                                  be constructed in this manner. I know none of this is much help in the way of
                                  documentation but I thought it would be of interest and certianly is
                                  reasonable as undocumented information. Still, I have been hesitant to mention as I
                                  don't have the time to try to document this.

                                  "There were many varieties of arrowheads used during the medieval period from
                                  the pile, to the bodkin to the broadhead depending on the specific
                                  application, for example to practice, to hunt or to pierce armor in military
                                  applications.
                                  The Pile and Blunt
                                  Designed to cause minimal damage to targets, piles and blunts fit close to
                                  the shaft of the arrow, and they were lighter with no cutting surface or barbs.
                                  The tip was sometimes rounded or "blunted" to reduce penetration.
                                  There was a proviso in the Assize of Arms of 1180 that was renewed in 1252,
                                  during the reign of Henry III which stated that those who possessed bows and
                                  arrows could only fit them with broadheads if they lived outside the vast areas
                                  of the Royal Forest. Those who lived within, must only fit their arrows with
                                  blunts or piles. The ineffectiveness of blunts and piles for hunting made
                                  poaching the Kings deer difficult."
                                  Richard


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • agincort@juno.com
                                  ... A series of statutes passed in the 14th and 15th centuries banned a large number of field sports and other games in order to protect regular archery
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jun 29, 2005
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                                    >There was extensive target practice, and, from the
                                    >13th century on, competitions against targets.

                                    "A series of statutes passed in the 14th and 15th centuries banned a
                                    large number of field sports and other games in order to protect regular
                                    archery practise. Edward IV passed a law that every Engishman from the
                                    age of 16 to 60 should own a longbow (of his own height) and to practice
                                    every Sunday after church and on feast days."

                                    http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/home/cs-archeo-research/cs-archeo-surv/c
                                    s-archeo-surv-archery.htm
                                    .........................................................
                                    Ian Gourdon of Glen Awe - Midrealm Forester, OP
                                    "From the point of view of an arrow, chain mail can
                                    be thought of as a series of loosely connected holes." -Terry Pratchett

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • J. Hughes
                                    This was parelled with laws in France, and in the cities of both the Empire and Italy. The requirements for militia archery practice in the Iberian kingdoms
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jun 30, 2005
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                                      This was parelled with laws in France, and in the
                                      cities of both the Empire and Italy. The requirements
                                      for militia archery practice in the Iberian kingdoms
                                      date from at least the 13th century. Though most of
                                      these laws specified crossbow.

                                      Charles O'Connor

                                      --- agincort@... wrote:

                                      > >There was extensive target practice, and, from the
                                      > >13th century on, competitions against targets.
                                      >
                                      > "A series of statutes passed in the 14th and 15th
                                      > centuries banned a
                                      > large number of field sports and other games in
                                      > order to protect regular
                                      > archery practise. Edward IV passed a law that every
                                      > Engishman from the
                                      > age of 16 to 60 should own a longbow (of his own
                                      > height) and to practice
                                      > every Sunday after church and on feast days."
                                      >
                                      >
                                      http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/home/cs-archeo-research/cs-archeo-surv/c
                                      > s-archeo-surv-archery.htm
                                      >
                                      .........................................................
                                      > Ian Gourdon of Glen Awe - Midrealm Forester, OP
                                      > "From the point of view of an arrow, chain mail can
                                      > be thought of as a series of loosely connected
                                      > holes." -Terry Pratchett
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                    • Lord Godwin FitzGilbert de Strigoil
                                      ... ...and I believe also was that age group could practice at no less than 200yds... Do I remember that quote right, or am I thinking of another... Godwin
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jun 30, 2005
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                                        > Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:57:32 -0400
                                        > From: agincort@...
                                        >Subject: Re: period target points
                                        >
                                        >>There was extensive target practice, and, from the
                                        >>13th century on, competitions against targets.
                                        >
                                        >"A series of statutes passed in the 14th and 15th centuries banned a
                                        >large number of field sports and other games in order to protect regular
                                        >archery practise. Edward IV passed a law that every Engishman from the
                                        >age of 16 to 60 should own a longbow (of his own height) and to practice
                                        >every Sunday after church and on feast days."
                                        >

                                        ...and I believe also was that age group could practice at no less than 200yds...

                                        Do I remember that quote right, or am I thinking of another...


                                        Godwin
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