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RE: [SCA-Archery] Pennsic Rules: Very Long but Important

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  • Bob Upson
    ... Then you must never have lived in the East. ... Any prior rudeness lies largely in the reader. It seems to me that I ve struck a nerve a little too
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 13, 2005
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      On 12 Jun 2005 at 23:52, Tessa the Huntress wrote:

      > Ahh.. perhaps your tradition, not mine or that of any of the people of
      > kingdoms that I have lived in. I have no need to exchange words with

      Then you must never have lived in the East.

      > someone who insists on being rude to me, with no cause. I wasn't trying to

      Any prior "rudeness" lies largely in the reader. It seems to me that
      I've struck a nerve a little too close to home for you to accept.
      Let me take a moment and be as direct -- or rude as you would have it
      -- as I have been accused of being anyway:

      Get over yourself. You aren't really a "Queen" in any real sense.
      You are the consort of a guy who won a really nifty tourney prize.
      As such you are entitled to certain ceremonial honors and privileges
      while playing at SCA events and functions. This mailing list is
      neither. Here, you are a member of the list no better nor worse than
      any other member. Your opinions have exactly the same weight as
      anyone else's whether you choose to wave your (temporary) SCA title
      about and capitalize Your personal pronouns or not.

      > Regina

      Not here, you're not.


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    • Siegfried
      ... Well, I will default back to my previous statements .... that since you are not checking the same archer, every day that they come back to the range,
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 13, 2005
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        > I disagree that it has been traditional to inspect equipment independently of the archer - it has always been my practice, and that of many of the marshals around me, to inquire during the process if the person presenting the bow is the user, and much of the point of the final phase of inspection, where we have the archer bring the (hand)bow to a full draw, is to see how well they can handle the poundage, whether they have loose sleeves, etc., and what (roughly) their draw-length is.

        Well, I will default back to my previous statements .... that since
        you are not checking the same archer, every day that they come back to
        the range, perhaps with different ammo, definiately in a different
        state of mine, hopefully wearing different garb, and perhaps at
        different levels of mental facilty ...

        That it falls upon the line marshal to ensure that the archer at the
        line, looks mentally aware, and is able to handle the equipment in
        their hands. And that it is the job of the equipment inspection
        marshal, to ensure that the bow upon which a sticker is being put, is
        safe enough for a 2 week period such that the line marshal needs only
        look for the sticker, and that part of the job is made easier for

        > As far as unusual circumstances, such as the Masterworks competition, are concerned, have you ever known me to forbid a MW participant from using a bow because they haven't been inspected with it?

        No, you have not, I also don't exactly remember the rules from last
        year, but at least this year the reinspection bit is definately in

        Rules tend to be rules, and will be followed strictly by those that do
        not know the intent, but only can read the letter. Putting a
        statement such as 'Marshals have the ability to temporarily approve a
        bow/archer combination for the purposes of testing/practice', would
        solve the problem.

        > parties. Yeah, that sounds best. So, if you or anyone else reading this wants a hand in formulating policy on this matter, I am ready to listen (but not necessarily agree) to you.

        Well I think my own policy would be: Inspections are of the
        equipment, line marshals should ensure that archers are comfortable
        with their equipment & are safe on the line. Each person may only
        shoot the warpoint once, and each bow may only shoot the warpoint


        > <sigh> As you and I both know, shooting 45's out of a 25 is not a safety concern. Shooting 25's out of a 45 is. The rule, written as such for many years, addresses that. I agree with you that it's language might be cleaned up some, but as long as it doesn't inadvertantly encourage unsafe practice, I can cope.

        Understood, just noting that it's rather vague right now, and a
        marshal MIGHT interpret the 'matched' as meaning 'well matched', and
        turn away archers who are shooting said 45# out of a 25# bow.

        Every year I hear the complaints of people who have had equipment
        disallowed at Pennsic for 'X' reason, which is sometimes, not valid.
        Therefore I hate seeing rules that might encourage this ... such as
        this rule, where a marshal, not knowing the intent, and taking it at
        face value, would send said archer packing away.

        > I agree that the position of minors 16 and 17 leads to anomalous circumstances in which no-one is a winner. Personally, I would be eager to make it clear that everyone is completely and solely responsible for their own behavior, but unfortunately we live in the real world and lawyers and insurance companies we have always among us. If I have erred in this matter, I can take the advice of upper-level Pennsic admin types and make modifications accordingly, but frankly I would be more willing to err conservatively than otherwise.

        Well, as stated, even the Youth Combat does not have such a strict
        policy, only requiring the parent upon the 'inspection/authorization',
        and not after that.

        I would be quite behind a range policy stating that the parent (or a
        responsible adult) would have to be present for the child's equipment
        to be inspected, and for their first practice at the range. After
        that, the marshal can easily let the parent know if, in their opinion,
        their child would be safe at the range alone, or will definately need
        accompanying in the future.

        And even upon those future unaccompanied visits, the marshal can
        always tell the minor that they need to stop shooting until an adult
        can be with them again due to their behaviour.

        > Eventually, the Champs shoot was backed up to 10:00 AM, and I was "encouraged" to have Populace warpoint available on Monday "if possible". So that's what will happen. At the conclusion of Champs, the range will be reconfigured for populace by any marshal or non-marshal grunt not too exhausted to move, and if at the end of that time there is a warranted marshal left standing, and it's not pitch dark, and there are populace who would like to shoot, I will try to accomodate them as best I can... Any questions...?

        Well, my only question is that of the archers. How does the archer,
        camped in the High Plains, sitting there at 3pm on Monday, know
        whether the Champions tourney finished early enough for them to go
        shoot a warpoint or not.

        If there is not way to set a firm time at which it will definately be
        open, then it seems unlikely that anyone will actually show up to
        shoot said warpoint in the first place ... and therefore seems to be
        ill-fated to attempt to offer it.

        Not to mention the marshals who will need to sign up for, say, a 3-5pm
        shift that day (which you would need to have on signups in order to
        have enough marshals to dorun it), who may need to show up to walk
        back home.

        I guess I don't have a problem at all if it was stated: Championship
        will be finished and range reset by 3pm ... and warpoints may be shot
        from 3-5pm. And planning as such, which at least gives archers a
        plan, and the championship people a deadline.

        As opposed to a statement of 'if time allows', which means noone will
        try to even show up, making rushed attempts to get the range reset,


        THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
        Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
        Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
        http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
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