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Re: [SCA-Archery]

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  • Siegfried
    ... Ok Nigel ... Siegfried, the picker apart of rules, has read them, and has the following to offer. Note that yes, I m being picky, and that yes, I m
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 10, 2005
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      On 6/9/05, Bruce R. Gordon <obsidian@...> wrote:
      > Greetings
      > I wish to announce that the Pennsic archery rules and the basic schedule are up on the web at this time - please review them at:
      >
      > http://www.pennsicwar.org/penn34/MARTIAL/archery.html

      Ok Nigel ... Siegfried, the picker apart of rules, has read them, and
      has the following to offer. Note that yes, I'm being picky, and that
      yes, I'm probably going to comment on things that have been in the
      rules 'forever'.

      However, this is the first chance, I believe, that I can remember
      getting a chance to read them significantly before Pennsic and
      therefore have a decent chance to comment on them:

      Ignore comments as you wish"

      The following two parts:
      > The person using the equipment must be present when that equipment is being inspected, so that it can be determined that the archer is safe with it.
      and
      > Given an inspection failure, you can used borrowed equipment, but bear in mind that that, too, must be inspected in your presence.

      These directly state that all equipment to be used by person 'X', must
      be inspected in the presence of said person who will use them.

      This, I do not believe, has been the case in the past. For this means
      that, for example, if there is equipment failure and you lose the use
      of your bow, and need to borrow one, that said borrowed one, even if
      it's already been inspected, now needs reinspected, specific to the
      archer.

      Traditionally bow inspections were independant of the archer. Will
      we be putting the archer's medallion number on the sticker this year
      to ensure that only that archer can use that bow without a
      reinspection?

      Also, while the 'one bow one archer' rule has been in place for
      competition ... it has not been in place for practice/novelty
      shoots/etc. So by these rules as written ... if I want to say: "Hey
      Bob, check out this new crossbow that I made, go ahead, fire off a few
      rounds." Bob has to walk over to the inspection line first, even
      though I just came from it. More extreme examples can be thought of
      as well (such as at the Archery Masterworks competition, where bows
      are shot by many many people in order to 'test them out'.

      Moving on:

      >>>>
      >> Before you do any shooting, including practice, you must have your
      equipment inspected by an archery marshal. To do this, bring your bow,
      string, and shafts to the tent on the archery range. A clearly marked
      portion of the tent will be the inspection area. For your convenience,
      we will also be permitting 'in camp' inspections to be performed by
      authorized marshals. Please bring the bow to the inspection unstrung.
      This allows the marshals to examine it before it is placed under
      stress. The marshal will guide you through the inspection process and
      if your equipment is satisfactory, they will place a sticker on your
      bow.
      >>>>

      Ok, this section now states that all bows must be inspected, no matter
      what, and defines that said inspection includes a sticker.

      Will stickers be made available from day 0 of the range being setup
      for practice purposes? And available after/before normal shooting
      hours as well? In the past, during these times, stickers have not
      been available, and we have allowed 'on the spot' inspections, that
      were good just for that bit of shooting.


      >>>>
      >>For arrows, nocks may be of any safe material, and note please that
      the shaft must be matched both for bow poundage and draw-length.
      >>>>

      Having a statement requiring that the shaft be matched. How matched?
      I've been known for example, regularly lately to be shooting some
      massively heavy, spined for like 45# arrows, out of a 25# bow. Why?
      It's what I had laying around. Similarly with length ... matched to
      draw-length implies 'fits well', when longer is safe.

      Also, these are things that really a marshal cannot easily check.

      Perhaps this line should just state: 'Shaft should be strong enough
      for the bow, and long enough for the archer's draw-length"?

      >>>>
      >>Parents/legal guardians of minors (i.e. gentles under the age of 18)
      found unattended on the range risk loss of range access for them and
      their children for the balance of the War.
      >>>>

      I just wish to point out that this rule, as stated, may upset a number
      of people. Pennsic rules allow for those 13 and older to go free
      without adult supervision:
      http://www.pennsicwar.org/penn34/GENERAL/youth.html

      Therefore this rule, does differ from the Pennsic rule. Just noting
      that. Also noting that this means that a 17yr old. Old enough to
      drive a vehicle, old enough to go around Pennsic by themselves, is not
      old enough to be at the archery range without their parents.

      And finally:
      >>>>
      >>Mon Aug. 15 Championship competition: 10 am - 2 or 3 pm.
      Some warpoint shooting after if time allows.
      >>>>

      Is it really, realistic, to think of offering warpoint shooting
      afterwards? Traditionally the championship goes far later than 2 or
      3pm ... and even then, by the time things are taken down enough that
      the range could be reset up, it's going to be later in the evening
      anyway.

      Plus, no archer will actually KNOW when the championship would in fact
      end, or when/if warpoints would be available anyway, and therefore I
      don't see anyone trying to make it up the hill on the 'chance'.

      It would seem more realisitic to just state that the range is
      completely closed that day.


      Ok, that's it ...

      Siegfried

      --
      ___________________________________________________________________________
      THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
      Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
      Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
      http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
    • James Koch
      Siegfried is 100% correct. ... This is even more ridiculous when it comes to crossbows since there is no draw length issue. If a person is too weak to span my
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 10, 2005
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        Siegfried is 100% correct.
        >
        > > http://www.pennsicwar.org/penn34/MARTIAL/archery.html
        >
        > > The person using the equipment must be present when that equipment is
        > being inspected, so that it can be determined that the archer is safe with it.
        >and
        > > Given an inspection failure, you can used borrowed equipment, but bear
        > in mind that that, too, must be inspected in your presence

        This is even more ridiculous when it comes to crossbows since there is no
        draw length issue. If a person is too weak to span my crossbow, then they
        won't be able to shoot it, but this can't be determined at the inspection
        table since we are not required to span crossbows during inspection for
        good reason. So this puts us in the position of having to go back to the
        inspection table every time someone wants to try out my crossbow to ask
        permission. "Can I please let Li Kung Lo try my crossbow?"

        >This, I do not believe, has been the case in the past. For this means
        >that, for example, if there is equipment failure and you lose the use
        >of your bow, and need to borrow one, that said borrowed one, even if
        >it's already been inspected, now needs reinspected, specific to the
        >archer.
        >
        >Traditionally bow inspections were independant of the archer. Will
        >we be putting the archer's medallion number on the sticker this year
        >to ensure that only that archer can use that bow without a
        >reinspection?

        In the past I simply carried a half dozen loaner bows with me when I went
        up to the range for the first time. Then when I'd bring someone to the
        range who had never shot before I'd let them try out a few bows until they
        found one they could draw comfortably and shoot comfortably. Last year I
        paid 9 mercenary archers to shoot for me for populace points. Several of
        them had never touched a bow before and didn't know what they could
        handle. For this reason I have bows from 25# to 45# on hand. By the rule
        as written we'd have to head back to the inspection table several times.

        >Also, while the 'one bow one archer' rule has been in place for
        >competition ... it has not been in place for practice/novelty
        >shoots/etc.

        Contrary to common opinion, the one bow rule was never intended to apply to
        anything but the advancing man shoot. Some stupid piece of shit who didn't
        know what he (or she) was doing, changed the wording of the rule sometime
        in the past so that it no longer made sense. So this should not even be an
        issue. I don't believe that the inspection should concern itself with
        anything but the condition of the equipment at the time at which it is
        first brought to the range. It's up to the line marshals and the archers
        themselves to keep an eye on the performance of the system
        (archer+bow+arrows) on the line over time.
        >
        Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
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