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  • Bruce R. Gordon
    Greetings I wish to announce that the Pennsic archery rules and the basic schedule are up on the web at this time - please review them at:
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 9 6:03 PM
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      Greetings
      I wish to announce that the Pennsic archery rules and the basic schedule are up on the web at this time - please review them at:

      http://www.pennsicwar.org/penn34/MARTIAL/archery.html

      I apologize for the delay, but the ducks I needed to get in a row turned out to be cats in need of herding (and in fact several are still missing - the webpage ought to be modified yet again in a day or so to indicate the need for warranted marshals signup, as one example among a number).
      Nevertheless, the rules are basically as in order, and the schedule is reliable. Note that setup will begin asap.

      Please don't hesitate to contact me for any additional clarifications.

      Forester Nigel FitzMaurice, Midrealm AG
      --
      Three things never heard from the mouth of a Celt:
      "Do these colors match?"
      "Is this too much jewelry?"
      "Is that my drink?"

      http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nest verch Tangwistel
      May I ask a quick question. In the section on strings you forbid the use of the string attachment loop made of pressed clips . I am not familiar with this
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 9 7:12 PM
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        May I ask a quick question. In the section on strings you forbid the use
        of the string attachment "loop made of pressed clips". I am not familiar
        with this item. could you discribe it a bit so I know what it is if I see
        it?

        Nest

        --- "Bruce R. Gordon" <obsidian@...> wrote:

        > Greetings
        > I wish to announce that the Pennsic archery rules and the basic
        > schedule are up on the web at this time - please review them at:
        >
        > http://www.pennsicwar.org/penn34/MARTIAL/archery.html
        >
        > I apologize for the delay, but the ducks I needed to get in a row
        > turned out to be cats in need of herding (and in fact several are still
        > missing - the webpage ought to be modified yet again in a day or so to
        > indicate the need for warranted marshals signup, as one example among a
        > number).
        > Nevertheless, the rules are basically as in order, and the schedule
        > is reliable. Note that setup will begin asap.
        >
        > Please don't hesitate to contact me for any additional
        > clarifications.
        >
        > Forester Nigel FitzMaurice, Midrealm AG
        > --
        > Three things never heard from the mouth of a Celt:
        > "Do these colors match?"
        > "Is this too much jewelry?"
        > "Is that my drink?"
        >
        > http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
        > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
        >
        > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


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      • James Koch
        Bruce (Nigel), ... I ll likely be bringing my four wards to Pennsic this year. All four intend to shoot and unless I am mistaken, the little red 20# kid s
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 9 8:56 PM
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          Bruce (Nigel),
          >
          I'll likely be bringing my four wards to Pennsic this year. All four
          intend to shoot and unless I am mistaken, the little red 20# kid's bows
          they own have strings with metal clips. Does this rule apply to children's
          equipment where such strings are common? If so, there will be quite a few
          kids who won't be able to shoot.
          >
          Jim (Gladius)
          >
          >
          >At 10:12 PM 6/9/2005, you wrote:
          >May I ask a quick question. In the section on strings you forbid the use
          >of the string attachment "loop made of pressed clips". I am not familiar
          >with this item. could you discribe it a bit so I know what it is if I see
          >it?
          >
          >Nest
          >
          >--- "Bruce R. Gordon" <obsidian@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Greetings
          > > I wish to announce that the Pennsic archery rules and the basic
          > > schedule are up on the web at this time - please review them at:
          > >
          > > http://www.pennsicwar.org/penn34/MARTIAL/archery.html
          > >
          > > I apologize for the delay, but the ducks I needed to get in a row
          > > turned out to be cats in need of herding (and in fact several are still
          > > missing - the webpage ought to be modified yet again in a day or so to
          > > indicate the need for warranted marshals signup, as one example among a
          > > number).
          > > Nevertheless, the rules are basically as in order, and the schedule
          > > is reliable. Note that setup will begin asap.
          > >
          > > Please don't hesitate to contact me for any additional
          > > clarifications.
          > >
          > > Forester Nigel FitzMaurice, Midrealm AG
          > > --
          > > Three things never heard from the mouth of a Celt:
          > > "Do these colors match?"
          > > "Is this too much jewelry?"
          > > "Is that my drink?"
          > >
          > > http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
          > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
          > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
          > >
          > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
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        • Nest verch Tangwistel
          Oh, of course, that is what you mean by loops made of pressed clips, the string is held together with a metal clip. I have seen those, I just couldn t picture
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 10 5:01 AM
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            Oh, of course, that is what you mean by loops made of pressed clips, the
            string is held together with a metal clip. I have seen those, I just
            couldn't picture it when it was written down.

            Nest

            --- James Koch <alchem@...> wrote:

            > Bruce (Nigel),
            > >
            > I'll likely be bringing my four wards to Pennsic this year. All four
            > intend to shoot and unless I am mistaken, the little red 20# kid's bows
            > they own have strings with metal clips. Does this rule apply to
            > children's
            > equipment where such strings are common? If so, there will be quite a
            > few
            > kids who won't be able to shoot.
            > >
            > Jim (Gladius)
            > >
            > >
            > >At 10:12 PM 6/9/2005, you wrote:
            > >May I ask a quick question. In the section on strings you forbid the
            > use
            > >of the string attachment "loop made of pressed clips". I am not
            > familiar
            > >with this item. could you discribe it a bit so I know what it is if I
            > see
            > >it?
            > >
            > >Nest
            > >
            > >--- "Bruce R. Gordon" <obsidian@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > Greetings
            > > > I wish to announce that the Pennsic archery rules and the basic
            > > > schedule are up on the web at this time - please review them at:
            > > >
            > > > http://www.pennsicwar.org/penn34/MARTIAL/archery.html
            > > >
            > > > I apologize for the delay, but the ducks I needed to get in a
            > row
            > > > turned out to be cats in need of herding (and in fact several are
            > still
            > > > missing - the webpage ought to be modified yet again in a day or so
            > to
            > > > indicate the need for warranted marshals signup, as one example
            > among a
            > > > number).
            > > > Nevertheless, the rules are basically as in order, and the
            > schedule
            > > > is reliable. Note that setup will begin asap.
            > > >
            > > > Please don't hesitate to contact me for any additional
            > > > clarifications.
            > > >
            > > > Forester Nigel FitzMaurice, Midrealm AG
            > > > --
            > > > Three things never heard from the mouth of a Celt:
            > > > "Do these colors match?"
            > > > "Is this too much jewelry?"
            > > > "Is that my drink?"
            > > >
            > > > http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
            > > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
            > > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
            > > >
            > > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
            > list]
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >__________________________________________________
            > >Do You Yahoo!?
            > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > >http://mail.yahoo.com
            > >
            > >
            > >---8<---------------------------------------------
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            > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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            > >
            > >
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            >
            >
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            > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
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          • Siegfried
            ... Ok Nigel ... Siegfried, the picker apart of rules, has read them, and has the following to offer. Note that yes, I m being picky, and that yes, I m
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 10 6:20 AM
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              On 6/9/05, Bruce R. Gordon <obsidian@...> wrote:
              > Greetings
              > I wish to announce that the Pennsic archery rules and the basic schedule are up on the web at this time - please review them at:
              >
              > http://www.pennsicwar.org/penn34/MARTIAL/archery.html

              Ok Nigel ... Siegfried, the picker apart of rules, has read them, and
              has the following to offer. Note that yes, I'm being picky, and that
              yes, I'm probably going to comment on things that have been in the
              rules 'forever'.

              However, this is the first chance, I believe, that I can remember
              getting a chance to read them significantly before Pennsic and
              therefore have a decent chance to comment on them:

              Ignore comments as you wish"

              The following two parts:
              > The person using the equipment must be present when that equipment is being inspected, so that it can be determined that the archer is safe with it.
              and
              > Given an inspection failure, you can used borrowed equipment, but bear in mind that that, too, must be inspected in your presence.

              These directly state that all equipment to be used by person 'X', must
              be inspected in the presence of said person who will use them.

              This, I do not believe, has been the case in the past. For this means
              that, for example, if there is equipment failure and you lose the use
              of your bow, and need to borrow one, that said borrowed one, even if
              it's already been inspected, now needs reinspected, specific to the
              archer.

              Traditionally bow inspections were independant of the archer. Will
              we be putting the archer's medallion number on the sticker this year
              to ensure that only that archer can use that bow without a
              reinspection?

              Also, while the 'one bow one archer' rule has been in place for
              competition ... it has not been in place for practice/novelty
              shoots/etc. So by these rules as written ... if I want to say: "Hey
              Bob, check out this new crossbow that I made, go ahead, fire off a few
              rounds." Bob has to walk over to the inspection line first, even
              though I just came from it. More extreme examples can be thought of
              as well (such as at the Archery Masterworks competition, where bows
              are shot by many many people in order to 'test them out'.

              Moving on:

              >>>>
              >> Before you do any shooting, including practice, you must have your
              equipment inspected by an archery marshal. To do this, bring your bow,
              string, and shafts to the tent on the archery range. A clearly marked
              portion of the tent will be the inspection area. For your convenience,
              we will also be permitting 'in camp' inspections to be performed by
              authorized marshals. Please bring the bow to the inspection unstrung.
              This allows the marshals to examine it before it is placed under
              stress. The marshal will guide you through the inspection process and
              if your equipment is satisfactory, they will place a sticker on your
              bow.
              >>>>

              Ok, this section now states that all bows must be inspected, no matter
              what, and defines that said inspection includes a sticker.

              Will stickers be made available from day 0 of the range being setup
              for practice purposes? And available after/before normal shooting
              hours as well? In the past, during these times, stickers have not
              been available, and we have allowed 'on the spot' inspections, that
              were good just for that bit of shooting.


              >>>>
              >>For arrows, nocks may be of any safe material, and note please that
              the shaft must be matched both for bow poundage and draw-length.
              >>>>

              Having a statement requiring that the shaft be matched. How matched?
              I've been known for example, regularly lately to be shooting some
              massively heavy, spined for like 45# arrows, out of a 25# bow. Why?
              It's what I had laying around. Similarly with length ... matched to
              draw-length implies 'fits well', when longer is safe.

              Also, these are things that really a marshal cannot easily check.

              Perhaps this line should just state: 'Shaft should be strong enough
              for the bow, and long enough for the archer's draw-length"?

              >>>>
              >>Parents/legal guardians of minors (i.e. gentles under the age of 18)
              found unattended on the range risk loss of range access for them and
              their children for the balance of the War.
              >>>>

              I just wish to point out that this rule, as stated, may upset a number
              of people. Pennsic rules allow for those 13 and older to go free
              without adult supervision:
              http://www.pennsicwar.org/penn34/GENERAL/youth.html

              Therefore this rule, does differ from the Pennsic rule. Just noting
              that. Also noting that this means that a 17yr old. Old enough to
              drive a vehicle, old enough to go around Pennsic by themselves, is not
              old enough to be at the archery range without their parents.

              And finally:
              >>>>
              >>Mon Aug. 15 Championship competition: 10 am - 2 or 3 pm.
              Some warpoint shooting after if time allows.
              >>>>

              Is it really, realistic, to think of offering warpoint shooting
              afterwards? Traditionally the championship goes far later than 2 or
              3pm ... and even then, by the time things are taken down enough that
              the range could be reset up, it's going to be later in the evening
              anyway.

              Plus, no archer will actually KNOW when the championship would in fact
              end, or when/if warpoints would be available anyway, and therefore I
              don't see anyone trying to make it up the hill on the 'chance'.

              It would seem more realisitic to just state that the range is
              completely closed that day.


              Ok, that's it ...

              Siegfried

              --
              ___________________________________________________________________________
              THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
              Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
              Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
              http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
            • James Koch
              Siegfried is 100% correct. ... This is even more ridiculous when it comes to crossbows since there is no draw length issue. If a person is too weak to span my
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 10 10:43 AM
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                Siegfried is 100% correct.
                >
                > > http://www.pennsicwar.org/penn34/MARTIAL/archery.html
                >
                > > The person using the equipment must be present when that equipment is
                > being inspected, so that it can be determined that the archer is safe with it.
                >and
                > > Given an inspection failure, you can used borrowed equipment, but bear
                > in mind that that, too, must be inspected in your presence

                This is even more ridiculous when it comes to crossbows since there is no
                draw length issue. If a person is too weak to span my crossbow, then they
                won't be able to shoot it, but this can't be determined at the inspection
                table since we are not required to span crossbows during inspection for
                good reason. So this puts us in the position of having to go back to the
                inspection table every time someone wants to try out my crossbow to ask
                permission. "Can I please let Li Kung Lo try my crossbow?"

                >This, I do not believe, has been the case in the past. For this means
                >that, for example, if there is equipment failure and you lose the use
                >of your bow, and need to borrow one, that said borrowed one, even if
                >it's already been inspected, now needs reinspected, specific to the
                >archer.
                >
                >Traditionally bow inspections were independant of the archer. Will
                >we be putting the archer's medallion number on the sticker this year
                >to ensure that only that archer can use that bow without a
                >reinspection?

                In the past I simply carried a half dozen loaner bows with me when I went
                up to the range for the first time. Then when I'd bring someone to the
                range who had never shot before I'd let them try out a few bows until they
                found one they could draw comfortably and shoot comfortably. Last year I
                paid 9 mercenary archers to shoot for me for populace points. Several of
                them had never touched a bow before and didn't know what they could
                handle. For this reason I have bows from 25# to 45# on hand. By the rule
                as written we'd have to head back to the inspection table several times.

                >Also, while the 'one bow one archer' rule has been in place for
                >competition ... it has not been in place for practice/novelty
                >shoots/etc.

                Contrary to common opinion, the one bow rule was never intended to apply to
                anything but the advancing man shoot. Some stupid piece of shit who didn't
                know what he (or she) was doing, changed the wording of the rule sometime
                in the past so that it no longer made sense. So this should not even be an
                issue. I don't believe that the inspection should concern itself with
                anything but the condition of the equipment at the time at which it is
                first brought to the range. It's up to the line marshals and the archers
                themselves to keep an eye on the performance of the system
                (archer+bow+arrows) on the line over time.
                >
                Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
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