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Re: Double-loading was: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Ludicrous and beyond

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  • Carolus von Eulenhorst
    Which is precisely why the technique is prohibited except on a case by case matter for demonstration only and not in competition. As for the other cases you
    Message 1 of 74 , Apr 28, 2005
      Which is precisely why the technique is prohibited except on a case by case
      matter for demonstration only and not in competition. As for the other
      cases you mention, before allowing a shoot, the marshals are trained to
      look at the safety related issues and will disallow it if they have any
      concerns about it being safe to perform for ALL participants. We're a
      little more restrictive than many other kingdoms but, as has been pointed
      out before, we have a somewhat different set of conditions we must meet if
      we are to keep our sport.
      Carolus

      At 05:50 AM 4/28/2005, you wrote:

      > > My concern with safety is that once something gets put on the list of
      > > accepted things, any fool will attempt it and there is little that can be
      > > done to stop it. You are right about safety with experienced
      > > practitioners. But I see far more of the occasional shooters who know just
      > > enough to not hurt themselves or others under normal circumstances. With
      > > this situation, I don't feel comfortable opening up the risks.
      >
      >I would agree with your concept; however, unless we wish to go the way
      >of heavy fighting with authorizations for various types of shooting,
      >then I think this argument fails.
      >
      >Why? Because you are specifically banning something, that can
      >admittedly be done by experienced practitioners, but not by beginners.
      >
      >I feel that there are many many more things that beginners can do
      >wrong, and are MUCH more dangerous than attempting to double-load -
      >yet we don't ban them ...
      >
      >Such as:
      >A) A new crossbowman who loads his crossbow while pointing at a 45
      >degree and keeps it that way as he lowers it to his shoulder. Asking
      >for a misfire to go off into 'who knows wher'
      >
      >B) Any new archer on the line who is distractable enough to hear
      >someone say: "Hey Bob!" and turns around with arrow nocked (and
      >perhaps drawn), or with crossbow loaded.
      >
      >C) The numerous 'put the archer off' position shoots that occur. Not
      >the more simple ones like 'kneel to shoot', or such. But the ones
      >such as:
      >* Lay on your back
      >* Lay on your front
      >* Stand with your feet facing the wrong way and twist your body
      >* Sit down-stand-load within 5 seconds
      >* Stand on one leg and shoot
      >* And many more.
      >
      >In all these situations, it is the job of the marshal to watch the
      >shooter(s) and ensure that they appear to be safe. It tends to be
      >rather quickly apparent when someone is not feeling comfortable in the
      >current situation, and might cause a situation. Just like the
      >marshal watching for someone pointing their bow high into the air ...
      >
      >Therefore, I feel the same about double-loading ... yes, it can be
      >done safely, sure, it can also be done unsafely, as can all shooting.
      > Therefore it's the marshal's job to watch the archers, and if someone
      >is attempting it, make an internal call as to whether the person looks
      >safe doing it, or whether they appear to be struggling, and therefore
      >should be pulled aside and talked to about it.
      >
      >Siegfried
      >
      >--
      >___________________________________________________________________________
      >THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
      >Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
      >Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
      >http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
      >
      >
      >---8<---------------------------------------------
      >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
      >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
      >
      >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
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    • Carolus von Eulenhorst
      Which is precisely why the technique is prohibited except on a case by case matter for demonstration only and not in competition. As for the other cases you
      Message 74 of 74 , Apr 28, 2005
        Which is precisely why the technique is prohibited except on a case by case
        matter for demonstration only and not in competition. As for the other
        cases you mention, before allowing a shoot, the marshals are trained to
        look at the safety related issues and will disallow it if they have any
        concerns about it being safe to perform for ALL participants. We're a
        little more restrictive than many other kingdoms but, as has been pointed
        out before, we have a somewhat different set of conditions we must meet if
        we are to keep our sport.
        Carolus

        At 05:50 AM 4/28/2005, you wrote:

        > > My concern with safety is that once something gets put on the list of
        > > accepted things, any fool will attempt it and there is little that can be
        > > done to stop it. You are right about safety with experienced
        > > practitioners. But I see far more of the occasional shooters who know just
        > > enough to not hurt themselves or others under normal circumstances. With
        > > this situation, I don't feel comfortable opening up the risks.
        >
        >I would agree with your concept; however, unless we wish to go the way
        >of heavy fighting with authorizations for various types of shooting,
        >then I think this argument fails.
        >
        >Why? Because you are specifically banning something, that can
        >admittedly be done by experienced practitioners, but not by beginners.
        >
        >I feel that there are many many more things that beginners can do
        >wrong, and are MUCH more dangerous than attempting to double-load -
        >yet we don't ban them ...
        >
        >Such as:
        >A) A new crossbowman who loads his crossbow while pointing at a 45
        >degree and keeps it that way as he lowers it to his shoulder. Asking
        >for a misfire to go off into 'who knows wher'
        >
        >B) Any new archer on the line who is distractable enough to hear
        >someone say: "Hey Bob!" and turns around with arrow nocked (and
        >perhaps drawn), or with crossbow loaded.
        >
        >C) The numerous 'put the archer off' position shoots that occur. Not
        >the more simple ones like 'kneel to shoot', or such. But the ones
        >such as:
        >* Lay on your back
        >* Lay on your front
        >* Stand with your feet facing the wrong way and twist your body
        >* Sit down-stand-load within 5 seconds
        >* Stand on one leg and shoot
        >* And many more.
        >
        >In all these situations, it is the job of the marshal to watch the
        >shooter(s) and ensure that they appear to be safe. It tends to be
        >rather quickly apparent when someone is not feeling comfortable in the
        >current situation, and might cause a situation. Just like the
        >marshal watching for someone pointing their bow high into the air ...
        >
        >Therefore, I feel the same about double-loading ... yes, it can be
        >done safely, sure, it can also be done unsafely, as can all shooting.
        > Therefore it's the marshal's job to watch the archers, and if someone
        >is attempting it, make an internal call as to whether the person looks
        >safe doing it, or whether they appear to be struggling, and therefore
        >should be pulled aside and talked to about it.
        >
        >Siegfried
        >
        >--
        >___________________________________________________________________________
        >THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
        >Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
        >Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
        >http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
        >
        >
        >---8<---------------------------------------------
        >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
        >
        >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >--
        >No virus found in this incoming message.
        >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
        >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.4 - Release Date: 4/27/2005


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        Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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