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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Equipment Failures

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  • Carolus von Eulenhorst
    I don t yet see this as becoming that complicated or leading to some sort of a de facto standard. It is way too early in the process to even be worrying about
    Message 1 of 39 , Mar 2, 2005
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      I don't yet see this as becoming that complicated or leading to some sort
      of a de facto standard. It is way too early in the process to even be
      worrying about that. As I see it, right now the proposal on the table is
      to find out how all the kingdoms approach equipment inspections, what they
      consider important, and how each differs for the others. This will give
      the marshals in a given area knowledge to use when facing a visitor from
      another area. We will then know how the visitor is used to being inspected
      (if at all) and what areas may be of concern to the inspecting marshal
      which may not be examined by the archer's home marshals. Many of the
      issues which have come to light so far are matters where guidelines have
      been made from assumptions rather than experience. It is these guidelines
      which need to be re-examined. If this discussion hadn't started, I believe
      many more erroneous standards may have developed over time. We are really
      refining the list of issues and determining what is really important. I
      really expect when this is done, the list of what to look for and how will
      be much simpler than it is now.
      Carolus


      At 10:54 PM 3/1/2005, you wrote:



      >Yes, we are different than FITA but I think that is becoming a red
      >herring. I am more concerned about whether we are putting too
      >much emphasis on equipment safety.
      >
      >You can that bow that the brand new archer just bought on
      >Merchants Row and go over it with 10 power loupe looking for
      >cracks. You can run the bow through an x-ray machine to try to
      >find hidden flaws in the wood. You can check the humidity of
      >wood. You can count the plies in the string and do a break test to
      >determine if the string is safe. You can take all the time needed
      >but none of those tests are going to tell you whether that new
      >archer is dumb enough to nock an arrow behind the shooting
      >line and try to shoot over the heads of the archers on the line.
      >
      >But let's drop the hyperbole and state my concerns/issues.
      >
      >1. I have not seen any reason why a system wide standard is
      >even needed. I have seen nothing that seems to indicate that
      >there has been any accidents caused by lack of standardization.
      >
      >2. I am concerned that individual archers may become
      >dependent on marshalls providing safety. Safety begins at the
      >archer.
      >
      >3. If you look for the devil, you will find him. There are some very
      >simple things to look for inspecting archery equipment. It can
      >probably be summed up in one or two paragrahs. Do a search
      >for archery safety and see what is covered during equipment
      >inspections. Delaminations, cracks in the riser or limbs, the bow
      >nocks, frayed strings, and cracks/splinters in the arrows will
      >pretty much cover most of it. My fear is that we will get a list of
      >every paranoid possibility regardless of how unlikely it is to
      >happen or whether it is even a valid safety concern.
      >
      >4. Even though this is only supposed to be a guideline and each
      >Kingdom will still be able to follow its own guidelines and I
      >reside in a Kingdom with sane, common sense guidelines, I
      >fear it will become the defacto standard.
      >
      >
      >Here are some of things I would like to see as the discussion
      >goes forward.
      >
      >1. That the information be directed towards the archer not the
      >marshall. Such information will help newbie archers buy and
      >maintain their equipment. And, of course, any thing directed at
      >the archer would also cover that more important aspect of safety
      >- i.e. the rules of the range.
      >
      >2. We try to look at the facts without the "but what ifs". Is it really a
      >safety situation? I have enjoyed Gladius's critique of the
      >crossbow criteria. Hopefully, we can get rid of those criteria that
      >are not based on real safety issues.
      >
      >3. Keep it simple.
      >
      >Safety is important. I think it is important that all new archers are
      >coached in the rules of the range and on how to inspect their
      >own equipment. Archery has an inherent danger but it is the
      >awareness of that danger that helps keeps this sport one of the
      >safest sports. We don't have to make this complicated.
      >
      >James Wolfden
      >
      >
      >
      >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Nest verch Tangwistel
      ><eastarch@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > We often see archers which are brand new or only shoot once
      >a year. The
      > > people with good intentions, but limited knowledge are the
      >targets of our
      > > inspections. I don't think the two systems are comparable.
      >They are made
      > > to deal with very different situations.
      > >
      > > Nest
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Carolus von Eulenhorst
      Your guess is right for a modern fiberglass bow but wrong for a wood bow. The fracture follows the grain, which is seldom as straight as we like thus causing
      Message 39 of 39 , Mar 4, 2005
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        Your guess is right for a modern fiberglass bow but wrong for a wood
        bow. The fracture follows the grain, which is seldom as straight as we
        like thus causing the sharp pieces to fly sideways. I've watched both
        break and far prefer the modern failure.
        Carolus


        At 11:50 AM 3/4/2005, you wrote:


        >The solution to this is to simply space archers on the line so that they
        >are as far apart as practical given the number of people and the space
        >available. It is my guess though that since the force vectors in a drawn
        >hand bow are forward and back and vertical, very little energy will be
        >imparted to the pieces of a breaking bow to the sides of a shooter. This
        >is not true of a crossbow.
        > >
        >Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
        > >
        > >At 08:03 AM 3/4/2005, you wrote:
        >
        > >On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 00:08:32 -0500, James W. Pratt, Jr.
        > ><cunning@...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Does this mean wood bows are inherently unsafe and should be banned? I
        > > > have personly seen three wood bows explode one cause an injury(to my head
        > > > chirurgeon report and all).
        > > >
        > > > James Cunningham
        > > > The Devils Advocate
        > >
        > >And the answer to the devil's advocate would be:
        > >Those who shoot a traditional wood bow need to take extra care in the
        > >storage, transport and use of their bow, inspecting it often for
        > >flaws.
        > >
        > >--
        > >Lord Caedmon Wilson
        > >
        > >Crossbow Archery Champion, Barony Flaming Gryphon
        > >Rapier Champion, South Oaken Region
        > >Thrown Weapons Champion, Oaken Region
        > >
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