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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Equipment defects

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  • Carolus von Eulenhorst
    Actually, Caid has mandatory authorizations to compete (not for practice) or to post a score for ranking. I have yet to find anyone who objects. In fact, I
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 1, 2005
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      Actually, Caid has mandatory authorizations to compete (not for practice)
      or to post a score for ranking. I have yet to find anyone who objects. In
      fact, I often have people from other kingdoms who are welcome to shoot as
      guests under the standards of their home kingdom who insist on getting
      Caidan authorizations. Many consider it a mark of honor to get a Caidan
      fighter card (though with only a target archery endorsement). .So, is this
      a burden? It doesn't seem so.
      Carolus


      At 09:28 AM 3/1/2005, you wrote:
      >snip
      >Would a mandatory introduction to archery - Authorizations - including a
      >familiarization with own equipment - including shoot a few arrows for me
      >- be out of line? Sure, nobody really wants them, it would make even more
      snip


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    • Scott B. Jaqua
      Of late, Caids rules have come up in several threads. I thought it might help if the context for those rules was explained. The Kingdom MoA, THL Carolus, can
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 2, 2005
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        Of late, Caids rules have come up in several threads. I thought it might
        help if the context for those rules was explained. The Kingdom MoA, THL
        Carolus, can also speak on this because he was one of the folks that
        helped create the rules way back when (Funny thing is he was smart
        enough to not want the MoA job back then. You have to wonder what
        changed? (grin!))

        First it is important to understand, that the rules where created for a
        reason. Archery in Caid was in fact broken. There was no standardization
        in the safety rules (equipment rules or rules of the range). No
        consistency in how the range was laid out or run. And no consistency in
        how competitions were run, or scores reported.

        In fact all the MoA's prior to (the then) Lady Toline, were pointedly
        asked to leave office by the Crown. Toline was in fact the first Caidan
        MoA to finish out a full term of office. When Toline took office she was
        commanded by the Crown to craft a set of rules acceptable to both the
        Marshals Office and the Kingdom Seneschal. So working with little or no
        support from the archery community, she began on the rules.

        Now I say little or no support, because the archers in the far flung
        areas of Caid, didn't see that change was required. We had a loose
        collage of archers. And it was felt by most, that collage and not the
        MoA could handle the issues before the archers of Caid. What these folks
        did not realize was that if Toline did not succeed, archery could be
        baned in Caid. The problems were seen by the Crown to be that bad.

        At that time I was a Baronial archery officer. I had written a rules of
        the line piece for a kingdom publication. Toline approached me and asked
        if she could use that in the rule book. At that time I was told the
        importance of the project. With Toline blessing I roped several old
        hands at SCA and FITA archery into the rules committee. Carolus was one,
        Allan Bluehood another, Kurt von Erikslava (sp?) and others as well.

        Together we created the first rule book that is still the basis for the
        rules we use today.

        Lady Toline's fight was to get the rule book done and accepted by the
        Crown and officers of the Kingdom. After she did that, she stepped down
        (after a full two year term, yes it took that long) and handed the
        office of to me.

        It was up to me to be the evil bad guy that enforced the new rules. The
        first several hundred authorizations and several dozen range marshal
        warrants had my signature on them (can you say writers cramp?) It was an
        ugly time. Many were the folks that thought the rule book wasn't needed
        in the first place. Many complained that the standardized rules were not
        what they were used to. And still many others felt it was a power grab
        on my part (?????) to take "power" away from the collage of archers.

        The Crown went to some length to explain the need for the rule book. And
        after that many folks accepted it. But a few continued to fight and
        protest and even flaunt the rules. In the end, the Crown called all
        argument on the issue closed. And yet some continued on and the Crown
        was forced to banish two people before it was all said and done. (so the
        next time someone says it's a thankless job, just think you could have
        had to go through what I did!)

        For a brief while I think I was the most hated person in Caid. But the
        system still works today. And it was a valuable experience that was very
        helpful when I was called on to help with Caid's rapier rules a few
        years later.

        Njall Olaf Hagerson
      • Carolus von Eulenhorst
        An excellent recap of some early history but with one error. For nearly 10 years prior to Lady Toline s assumption of the MoA position, Master Theodric Pendar
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 3, 2005
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          An excellent recap of some early history but with one error. For nearly 10
          years prior to Lady Toline's assumption of the MoA position, Master
          Theodric Pendar of Falconwood held the post and he was never asked to step
          down. He did so because he held the position for long enough and it was
          time to transition the position. I have files with some early rudimentary
          rules from his tenure. Lady Toline's charge was part of a kingdom wide
          process to make all the marshallate rules much more complete. The rather
          independent nature of the archers did, in fact, make this a much harder job
          than other branches of the marshallate faced.
          Carolus

          At 10:17 AM 3/2/2005, you wrote:


          >Of late, Caids rules have come up in several threads. I thought it might
          >help if the context for those rules was explained. The Kingdom MoA, THL
          >Carolus, can also speak on this because he was one of the folks that
          >helped create the rules way back when (Funny thing is he was smart
          >enough to not want the MoA job back then. You have to wonder what
          >changed? (grin!))
          >
          >First it is important to understand, that the rules where created for a
          >reason. Archery in Caid was in fact broken. There was no standardization
          >in the safety rules (equipment rules or rules of the range). No
          >consistency in how the range was laid out or run. And no consistency in
          >how competitions were run, or scores reported.
          >
          >In fact all the MoA's prior to (the then) Lady Toline, were pointedly
          >asked to leave office by the Crown. Toline was in fact the first Caidan
          >MoA to finish out a full term of office. When Toline took office she was
          >commanded by the Crown to craft a set of rules acceptable to both the
          >Marshals Office and the Kingdom Seneschal. So working with little or no
          >support from the archery community, she began on the rules.
          >
          >Now I say little or no support, because the archers in the far flung
          >areas of Caid, didn't see that change was required. We had a loose
          >collage of archers. And it was felt by most, that collage and not the
          >MoA could handle the issues before the archers of Caid. What these folks
          >did not realize was that if Toline did not succeed, archery could be
          >baned in Caid. The problems were seen by the Crown to be that bad.
          >
          >At that time I was a Baronial archery officer. I had written a rules of
          >the line piece for a kingdom publication. Toline approached me and asked
          >if she could use that in the rule book. At that time I was told the
          >importance of the project. With Toline blessing I roped several old
          >hands at SCA and FITA archery into the rules committee. Carolus was one,
          >Allan Bluehood another, Kurt von Erikslava (sp?) and others as well.
          >
          >Together we created the first rule book that is still the basis for the
          >rules we use today.
          >
          >Lady Toline's fight was to get the rule book done and accepted by the
          >Crown and officers of the Kingdom. After she did that, she stepped down
          >(after a full two year term, yes it took that long) and handed the
          >office of to me.
          >
          >It was up to me to be the evil bad guy that enforced the new rules. The
          >first several hundred authorizations and several dozen range marshal
          >warrants had my signature on them (can you say writers cramp?) It was an
          >ugly time. Many were the folks that thought the rule book wasn't needed
          >in the first place. Many complained that the standardized rules were not
          >what they were used to. And still many others felt it was a power grab
          >on my part (?????) to take "power" away from the collage of archers.
          >
          >The Crown went to some length to explain the need for the rule book. And
          >after that many folks accepted it. But a few continued to fight and
          >protest and even flaunt the rules. In the end, the Crown called all
          >argument on the issue closed. And yet some continued on and the Crown
          >was forced to banish two people before it was all said and done. (so the
          >next time someone says it's a thankless job, just think you could have
          >had to go through what I did!)
          >
          >For a brief while I think I was the most hated person in Caid. But the
          >system still works today. And it was a valuable experience that was very
          >helpful when I was called on to help with Caid's rapier rules a few
          >years later.
          >
          >Njall Olaf Hagerson
          >
          >
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