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Re: Equipment defects

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  • agincort@juno.com
    ... or ... his ... Marshall ... Expect, yes. Presume, no. Experienced archers do generally know their equipment. And check it regularly. Other experienced
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 1, 2005
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      > >Ultimately, a crossbow needs to be checked when first brought to
      > the line for obvious defects and then checked for changes after a dozen
      or
      > so shots...
      ..........
      > This sounds to me like the sort of inspection the archer himself
      > should be doing, not the Marshall. I would expect the archer to know
      his
      > specific crossbow much more than any Marshall, unless, perhaps, that
      Marshall
      > happened to actually manufacture it.
      > James

      Expect, yes. Presume, no. Experienced archers do generally know their
      equipment. And check it regularly. Other experienced shooters may not
      regularly check their strings or prods, or sears. Inexperienced archers
      mostly don't know yet what to check, or how. Some of us just get lazy. Do
      we just know who's who? Unfortunately not. The number of archers who
      freely admit (at inspection) to having not shot since last Pennsic are
      numerous. The number of archers (plainly very new) who can't string their
      own bow yet, or try to string it backwards, are occasional but common.
      There is a long sliding slope between inspecting those who build their
      own, and should be teaching the Marshal (and often does); and those who
      need to be reminded to push wood, pull string. We shoot with both. In a
      perfect universe we wouldn't need any stinkin Inspections. Or is that
      badgers. Fact is, Anybody can shoot. Anybody may or may not know anything
      about their equipment, or the rules of the line, or even what Hold means.
      I meet Anybody at the range all the time.
      Would a mandatory introduction to archery - Authorizations - including a
      familiarization with own equipment - including shoot a few arrows for me
      - be out of line? Sure, nobody really wants them, it would make even more
      of us carry an Uber card... In the Midrealm, the Marshals carry them now,
      as do all heavy fighters, Rapier, etc. Another check on the list. Sure,
      experienced archers don't need the hassle, but it's not a hassle for the
      dozens of new archers I meet every year. For them it's needed
      information, often information they don't have. At our local range, no
      big whoop. At Pennsic, it's risky business.
      .........................................................
      Ian Gourdon of Glen Awe - Midrealm Forester, OP
      "From the point of view of an arrow, chain mail can
      be thought of as a series of loosely connected holes." -Terry Pratchett
    • Carolus von Eulenhorst
      Actually, Caid has mandatory authorizations to compete (not for practice) or to post a score for ranking. I have yet to find anyone who objects. In fact, I
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 1, 2005
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        Actually, Caid has mandatory authorizations to compete (not for practice)
        or to post a score for ranking. I have yet to find anyone who objects. In
        fact, I often have people from other kingdoms who are welcome to shoot as
        guests under the standards of their home kingdom who insist on getting
        Caidan authorizations. Many consider it a mark of honor to get a Caidan
        fighter card (though with only a target archery endorsement). .So, is this
        a burden? It doesn't seem so.
        Carolus


        At 09:28 AM 3/1/2005, you wrote:
        >snip
        >Would a mandatory introduction to archery - Authorizations - including a
        >familiarization with own equipment - including shoot a few arrows for me
        >- be out of line? Sure, nobody really wants them, it would make even more
        snip


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      • Scott B. Jaqua
        Of late, Caids rules have come up in several threads. I thought it might help if the context for those rules was explained. The Kingdom MoA, THL Carolus, can
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 2, 2005
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          Of late, Caids rules have come up in several threads. I thought it might
          help if the context for those rules was explained. The Kingdom MoA, THL
          Carolus, can also speak on this because he was one of the folks that
          helped create the rules way back when (Funny thing is he was smart
          enough to not want the MoA job back then. You have to wonder what
          changed? (grin!))

          First it is important to understand, that the rules where created for a
          reason. Archery in Caid was in fact broken. There was no standardization
          in the safety rules (equipment rules or rules of the range). No
          consistency in how the range was laid out or run. And no consistency in
          how competitions were run, or scores reported.

          In fact all the MoA's prior to (the then) Lady Toline, were pointedly
          asked to leave office by the Crown. Toline was in fact the first Caidan
          MoA to finish out a full term of office. When Toline took office she was
          commanded by the Crown to craft a set of rules acceptable to both the
          Marshals Office and the Kingdom Seneschal. So working with little or no
          support from the archery community, she began on the rules.

          Now I say little or no support, because the archers in the far flung
          areas of Caid, didn't see that change was required. We had a loose
          collage of archers. And it was felt by most, that collage and not the
          MoA could handle the issues before the archers of Caid. What these folks
          did not realize was that if Toline did not succeed, archery could be
          baned in Caid. The problems were seen by the Crown to be that bad.

          At that time I was a Baronial archery officer. I had written a rules of
          the line piece for a kingdom publication. Toline approached me and asked
          if she could use that in the rule book. At that time I was told the
          importance of the project. With Toline blessing I roped several old
          hands at SCA and FITA archery into the rules committee. Carolus was one,
          Allan Bluehood another, Kurt von Erikslava (sp?) and others as well.

          Together we created the first rule book that is still the basis for the
          rules we use today.

          Lady Toline's fight was to get the rule book done and accepted by the
          Crown and officers of the Kingdom. After she did that, she stepped down
          (after a full two year term, yes it took that long) and handed the
          office of to me.

          It was up to me to be the evil bad guy that enforced the new rules. The
          first several hundred authorizations and several dozen range marshal
          warrants had my signature on them (can you say writers cramp?) It was an
          ugly time. Many were the folks that thought the rule book wasn't needed
          in the first place. Many complained that the standardized rules were not
          what they were used to. And still many others felt it was a power grab
          on my part (?????) to take "power" away from the collage of archers.

          The Crown went to some length to explain the need for the rule book. And
          after that many folks accepted it. But a few continued to fight and
          protest and even flaunt the rules. In the end, the Crown called all
          argument on the issue closed. And yet some continued on and the Crown
          was forced to banish two people before it was all said and done. (so the
          next time someone says it's a thankless job, just think you could have
          had to go through what I did!)

          For a brief while I think I was the most hated person in Caid. But the
          system still works today. And it was a valuable experience that was very
          helpful when I was called on to help with Caid's rapier rules a few
          years later.

          Njall Olaf Hagerson
        • Carolus von Eulenhorst
          An excellent recap of some early history but with one error. For nearly 10 years prior to Lady Toline s assumption of the MoA position, Master Theodric Pendar
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 3, 2005
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            An excellent recap of some early history but with one error. For nearly 10
            years prior to Lady Toline's assumption of the MoA position, Master
            Theodric Pendar of Falconwood held the post and he was never asked to step
            down. He did so because he held the position for long enough and it was
            time to transition the position. I have files with some early rudimentary
            rules from his tenure. Lady Toline's charge was part of a kingdom wide
            process to make all the marshallate rules much more complete. The rather
            independent nature of the archers did, in fact, make this a much harder job
            than other branches of the marshallate faced.
            Carolus

            At 10:17 AM 3/2/2005, you wrote:


            >Of late, Caids rules have come up in several threads. I thought it might
            >help if the context for those rules was explained. The Kingdom MoA, THL
            >Carolus, can also speak on this because he was one of the folks that
            >helped create the rules way back when (Funny thing is he was smart
            >enough to not want the MoA job back then. You have to wonder what
            >changed? (grin!))
            >
            >First it is important to understand, that the rules where created for a
            >reason. Archery in Caid was in fact broken. There was no standardization
            >in the safety rules (equipment rules or rules of the range). No
            >consistency in how the range was laid out or run. And no consistency in
            >how competitions were run, or scores reported.
            >
            >In fact all the MoA's prior to (the then) Lady Toline, were pointedly
            >asked to leave office by the Crown. Toline was in fact the first Caidan
            >MoA to finish out a full term of office. When Toline took office she was
            >commanded by the Crown to craft a set of rules acceptable to both the
            >Marshals Office and the Kingdom Seneschal. So working with little or no
            >support from the archery community, she began on the rules.
            >
            >Now I say little or no support, because the archers in the far flung
            >areas of Caid, didn't see that change was required. We had a loose
            >collage of archers. And it was felt by most, that collage and not the
            >MoA could handle the issues before the archers of Caid. What these folks
            >did not realize was that if Toline did not succeed, archery could be
            >baned in Caid. The problems were seen by the Crown to be that bad.
            >
            >At that time I was a Baronial archery officer. I had written a rules of
            >the line piece for a kingdom publication. Toline approached me and asked
            >if she could use that in the rule book. At that time I was told the
            >importance of the project. With Toline blessing I roped several old
            >hands at SCA and FITA archery into the rules committee. Carolus was one,
            >Allan Bluehood another, Kurt von Erikslava (sp?) and others as well.
            >
            >Together we created the first rule book that is still the basis for the
            >rules we use today.
            >
            >Lady Toline's fight was to get the rule book done and accepted by the
            >Crown and officers of the Kingdom. After she did that, she stepped down
            >(after a full two year term, yes it took that long) and handed the
            >office of to me.
            >
            >It was up to me to be the evil bad guy that enforced the new rules. The
            >first several hundred authorizations and several dozen range marshal
            >warrants had my signature on them (can you say writers cramp?) It was an
            >ugly time. Many were the folks that thought the rule book wasn't needed
            >in the first place. Many complained that the standardized rules were not
            >what they were used to. And still many others felt it was a power grab
            >on my part (?????) to take "power" away from the collage of archers.
            >
            >The Crown went to some length to explain the need for the rule book. And
            >after that many folks accepted it. But a few continued to fight and
            >protest and even flaunt the rules. In the end, the Crown called all
            >argument on the issue closed. And yet some continued on and the Crown
            >was forced to banish two people before it was all said and done. (so the
            >next time someone says it's a thankless job, just think you could have
            >had to go through what I did!)
            >
            >For a brief while I think I was the most hated person in Caid. But the
            >system still works today. And it was a valuable experience that was very
            >helpful when I was called on to help with Caid's rapier rules a few
            >years later.
            >
            >Njall Olaf Hagerson
            >
            >
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